how would you feel if a creationist taught your kids science?

[Foxfyre]

I don't believe any of the polls I've seen included the money question on this topic:
Do you believe that Creationism and Evolution can coexist peacefully and rationally side by side?

Evolution has NOTHING to do with how the universe was created. Not a thing. It doesn't even address how life came into being. The fact that you need to even ask that question illustrates how you don't actually understand what evolution is about.

I feel the same way about science class. There is no reason for a science teacher to bring up Creationism or I.D., but if the student does, the proper response is: Creationism and I.D. can explain holes that remain in what we know of Evolution and other scientific theories, and if you believe that fine.

NO! There is no existing evidence that can confirm or deny either, and as such, those non-scientific ideas have nothing to do with this class.

Stating they can explain holes that remain in what we know of evolution is FALSE. This is an incorrect an unscientific misleading statement. You can't even POINT OUT what those "holes in evolution" are, so why claim some other ideas fill them without any evidence to support it?

you are wasting your time on people with less than a 6th graders understanding of science.

Really? Hmmm. Looking at my college transcript. Biology - two years - A. (I only needed one but I loved biology.) Chemistry - B - I wasn't as good with inert substances. Physics - A. And I did substitute teach for awhile until the rules changed requiring teacher certification. The science teachers liked me to sub in their classes and asked for me.

So perhaps you might want to back off the personal insults. They make you look really small and petty.

And I'm still waiting for you to comment on my post directed to your Bible commentary. Is there a reason you have avoided that despite it being called to your attention two or three times now?

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't believe any of the polls I've seen included the money question on this topic:
Do you believe that Creationism and Evolution can coexist peacefully and rationally side by side?

Evolution has NOTHING to do with how the universe was created. Not a thing. It doesn't even address how life came into being. The fact that you need to even ask that question illustrates how you don't actually understand what evolution is about.

I feel the same way about science class. There is no reason for a science teacher to bring up Creationism or I.D., but if the student does, the proper response is: Creationism and I.D. can explain holes that remain in what we know of Evolution and other scientific theories, and if you believe that fine.

NO! There is no existing evidence that can confirm or deny either, and as such, those non-scientific ideas have nothing to do with this class.

Stating they can explain holes that remain in what we know of evolution is FALSE. This is an incorrect an unscientific misleading statement. You can't even POINT OUT what those "holes in evolution" are, so why claim some other ideas fill them without any evidence to support it?

you are wasting your time on people with less than a 6th graders understanding of science.

We can't all be like you with your advanced understanding and intelligence...after all, you posted...wait...so far all you've contributed nothing to the thread except intermittent sputterings of "yore a big dummie!"

Never mind, I take it back.

 

[JBeukema]

This part of your post makes no sense.

Well I explained it in some detail. If you can't understand the explanation, there isn't much I can do for you I'm afraid.

Any teacher who has a mind so closed as to deny creationism or intelligent design as possibilities has a mind too closed to teach much of anything, much less science.

Point of order: Not personally believing something that has never been proved or disproved and thinking one has enough evidence to deny its existence to somebody else = fundamentalist closed mind.

And what is someone who calls a science teacher closed minded and unfit to teach because they teach that Creationism violates the First Law of Thermodynamics????? I would guess, hypocrite.

Demonstrate

 

[AllieBaba]

Evolution has NOTHING to do with how the universe was created. Not a thing. It doesn't even address how life came into being. The fact that you need to even ask that question illustrates how you don't actually understand what evolution is about.


NO! There is no existing evidence that can confirm or deny either, and as such, those non-scientific ideas have nothing to do with this class.

Stating they can explain holes that remain in what we know of evolution is FALSE. This is an incorrect an unscientific misleading statement. You can't even POINT OUT what those "holes in evolution" are, so why claim some other ideas fill them without any evidence to support it?

you are wasting your time on people with less than a 6th graders understanding of science.

Really? Hmmm. Looking at my college transcript. Biology - two years - A. (I only needed one but I loved biology.) Chemistry - B - I wasn't as good with inert substances. Physics - A. And I did substitute teach for awhile until the rules changed requiring teacher certification. The science teachers liked me to sub in their classes and asked for me.

So perhaps you might want to back off the personal insults. They make you look really small and petty.

And I'm still waiting for you to comment on my post directed to your Bible commentary. Is there a reason you have avoided that despite it being called to your attention two or three times now?

I've got a full year of college biology, and a full term of genetics.

But I've got less than a 6th grader's understanding of science, lol...

 

[JBeukema]

This is what gets me about the illogically committed to a belief. Anytime one reveals that s/he does not understand the difference between origins of species and origins of life in the evolution discussion, that person has nothing other than an opinion to offer.

And not even an intelligent or educated one.

 

[JBeukema]

no problem...you can hear it and see it explained...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5ixmLNwF9s&playnext=1&list=PLA3D6C9C847F27E6F[/ame]

have you seen the movie?

I watched as much as I read of Keynes' General Theory- enough to realize it was a bunch of demonstrably false bullshit and not worth wasting further time on.

 

[JBeukema]

Creationism is a theory, and I don't argue about the theory of evolution except as it pertains to creation, and the history of man. There's no evidence that we evolved from some other creature, and evolution in no way explains the origin of life.

Evolution doesn't even pretend to explain the origin of life. That's an entirely separate field, abiogenesis, and is much more controversial.

It's hard to take you guys seriously when it's obvious you've never even studied evolution before dismissing it outright.

yea its pretty hilarious actually. I remember the first time I brought up abiogenisis here and tons of people who were evolution-deniers never even heard of it

Many of them think at first that it's spontaneous generation


My response?

'No, that'd be creationism'

 

[Foxfyre]

you are wasting your time on people with less than a 6th graders understanding of science.

Really? Hmmm. Looking at my college transcript. Biology - two years - A. (I only needed one but I loved biology.) Chemistry - B - I wasn't as good with inert substances. Physics - A. And I did substitute teach for awhile until the rules changed requiring teacher certification. The science teachers liked me to sub in their classes and asked for me.

So perhaps you might want to back off the personal insults. They make you look really small and petty.

And I'm still waiting for you to comment on my post directed to your Bible commentary. Is there a reason you have avoided that despite it being called to your attention two or three times now?

I've got a full year of college biology, and a full term of genetics.

But I've got less than a 6th grader's understanding of science, lol...

Oh and I forgot my geology course--it wasn't called geology but that's what it mostly was--and my Anthropology course. I bet you passed reading comprehension too.

 

[JBeukema]

 

[JBeukema]

I don't know how many times I have to keep saying "EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CREATION" before you guys get the hint and keep telling me "EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CREATION".

Of course, it's confusing because you then turn around and say that evolution and creationism can't exist side by side...

Wait..

EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CREATION.

I'm saying it again in case you didn't read it the first 5000 times I wrote it on this board over the past few years.

I'm honestly amazed by your stupidity.

 

[JBeukema]

Your side is the side that insists that Creationists can't teach evolution, after all.

I missed that.

Please cite.

 

[JBeukema]

You haven't read the thread then. the thread which starts out with the question "would you want a creationist teaching SCIENCE". Not teaching creationism.

But carry on anyway.

See my first three replies...

 

[JBeukema]

you are wasting your time on people with less than a 6th graders understanding of science.

Really? Hmmm. Looking at my college transcript. Biology - two years - A. (I only needed one but I loved biology.) Chemistry - B - I wasn't as good with inert substances. Physics - A. And I did substitute teach for awhile until the rules changed requiring teacher certification. The science teachers liked me to sub in their classes and asked for me.

So perhaps you might want to back off the personal insults. They make you look really small and petty.

And I'm still waiting for you to comment on my post directed to your Bible commentary. Is there a reason you have avoided that despite it being called to your attention two or three times now?

I've got a full year of college biology, and a full term of genetics.

.

-and Bush2 went to Yale...

 

[edthecynic]

Well I explained it in some detail. If you can't understand the explanation, there isn't much I can do for you I'm afraid.

Any teacher who has a mind so closed as to deny creationism or intelligent design as possibilities has a mind too closed to teach much of anything, much less science.

Point of order: Not personally believing something that has never been proved or disproved and thinking one has enough evidence to deny its existence to somebody else = fundamentalist closed mind.

And what is someone who calls a science teacher closed minded and unfit to teach because they teach that Creationism violates the First Law of Thermodynamics????? I would guess, hypocrite.

Demonstrate

It should be obvious!

Creationism says that no thing (God) created everything from nothing.
The FLoT says that from nothing, nothing comes.

 

[edthecynic]

Evolution has NOTHING to do with how the universe was created. Not a thing. It doesn't even address how life came into being. The fact that you need to even ask that question illustrates how you don't actually understand what evolution is about.


NO! There is no existing evidence that can confirm or deny either, and as such, those non-scientific ideas have nothing to do with this class.

Stating they can explain holes that remain in what we know of evolution is FALSE. This is an incorrect an unscientific misleading statement. You can't even POINT OUT what those "holes in evolution" are, so why claim some other ideas fill them without any evidence to support it?

you are wasting your time on people with less than a 6th graders understanding of science.

Really? Hmmm. Looking at my college transcript. Biology - two years - A. (I only needed one but I loved biology.) Chemistry - B - I wasn't as good with inert substances. Physics - A. And I did substitute teach for awhile until the rules changed requiring teacher certification. The science teachers liked me to sub in their classes and asked for me.

So perhaps you might want to back off the personal insults. They make you look really small and petty.

And I'm still waiting for you to comment on my post directed to your Bible commentary. Is there a reason you have avoided that despite it being called to your attention two or three times now?

I'm curious how many credits your physics course was. In my college there were 3 levels of physics classes, a 3 credit physics with no calculus for a BS in a non science major, a 4 credit no calculus physics for non physics science majors, and a 5 credit calculus required physics for physics majors, the physics I took and earned an A.

Even a 3 credit physics course would have required you to learn about the FLoT.

 

[saveliberty]

Well, no. I haven't seen a single person in this thread on "my side" state that creationists can't teach evolution. Once again you are making crap up because you don't have an actual argument. The general consensus here has been that anyone can teach science so long as they do so adequately while remaining within the boundaries of scientific understanding and professionalism. It doesn't matter whether a creationist, Christian, Muslim, or atheist does it, so long as their personal beliefs are kept out of the classroom.

Again I ask: what part of anything I've said thus far do you disagree with?

Major fail on your part. The OP clearly implies that someone who believes in creation should not or cannot teach science. You also seem to think that a person's beliefs are not part of teaching. Who and want a person is helps make up the style of teaching. A strong belief system makes for the best teachers.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, no. I haven't seen a single person in this thread on "my side" state that creationists can't teach evolution. Once again you are making crap up because you don't have an actual argument. The general consensus here has been that anyone can teach science so long as they do so adequately while remaining within the boundaries of scientific understanding and professionalism. It doesn't matter whether a creationist, Christian, Muslim, or atheist does it, so long as their personal beliefs are kept out of the classroom.

Again I ask: what part of anything I've said thus far do you disagree with?

Major fail on your part. The OP clearly implies that someone who believes in creation should not or cannot teach science. You also seem to think that a person's beliefs are not part of teaching. Who and want a person is helps make up the style of teaching. A strong belief system makes for the best teachers.

I agree with this for the most part because say a devout Christian will be far more likely to be open to ALL possibilities and understand how much that we don't know and should be willing to at least look at. Too many committed and passionate Atheists, especially the anti-Christian types, I think will be too close minded to make good science teachers.

Of course a fundamentalist who refuses to teach Evolution as science and/or that would insert Creationism into the curriculum as science would be as closed minded and also would make a lousy science teacher.

Both, in my opinion, would be wrong.

But I would accept an Einstein type as a science teacher in a heartbeat. He rejected the concept of a personal god, but was open to a concept of some kind of cosmic intelligence guiding the overall process--he saw far too much symmetry, order, and variety in the Universe to accept that it absolutely had to all be just by coincidence, chance, or accident.

An open mind is all I ask of a scientist or science teacher.

 

[AllieBaba]

You haven't read the thread then. the thread which starts out with the question "would you want a creationist teaching SCIENCE". Not teaching creationism.

But carry on anyway.

See my first three replies...

Thanks, once was enough.

The premise of the thread remains the same, no matter how you deny it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Really? Hmmm. Looking at my college transcript. Biology - two years - A. (I only needed one but I loved biology.) Chemistry - B - I wasn't as good with inert substances. Physics - A. And I did substitute teach for awhile until the rules changed requiring teacher certification. The science teachers liked me to sub in their classes and asked for me.

So perhaps you might want to back off the personal insults. They make you look really small and petty.

And I'm still waiting for you to comment on my post directed to your Bible commentary. Is there a reason you have avoided that despite it being called to your attention two or three times now?

I've got a full year of college biology, and a full term of genetics.

But I've got less than a 6th grader's understanding of science, lol...

Oh and I forgot my geology course--it wasn't called geology but that's what it mostly was--and my Anthropology course. I bet you passed reading comprehension too.

I took a term of anthropology and a term of archaeology, and the head of the English dept. came to me to ask me to tutor English comp students who were struggling.

But I'm just a clueless rube.

 

[Foxfyre]

I've got a full year of college biology, and a full term of genetics.

But I've got less than a 6th grader's understanding of science, lol...

Oh and I forgot my geology course--it wasn't called geology but that's what it mostly was--and my Anthropology course. I bet you passed reading comprehension too.

I took a term of anthropology and a term of archaeology, and the head of the English dept. came to me to ask me to tutor English comp students who were struggling.

But I'm just a clueless rube.

I wanted to take archaeology so bad--one of my uncles was head of the archaeology/anthropology department at a major Texas university--and as a kid I got to go on some summer digs with him. I was torn at one time whether to pursue that as a discipline, but my heart was drawn elsewhere and I never could find a place to fit it into the class schedule without dropping something else I had to have or needed. One of my kids started out with an archaeology major influenced by that same uncle but by the second year had switched and now has a PhD in Sociology.

My aunt (married to that uncle) taught university history and her influence steered me in that direction though my primary major was journalism/communications. It all fit together though for later vocations and avocations. I am very grateful for the science classes and a lot of history and my experiences in the summer field work. All good stuff.

But again I don't want Evolution taught as religion.
I don't want Creationism/I.D. taught as science.
And I don't want teachers denying either to their students. I want science teachers giving the kids the basics and encouraging them to open their minds to endless possibilities.