Human Caused Global Warming

[westwall]

Both of these points are factually incorrect. The rate of CO2 increase is far less than seen in Phanerozoic era. That Era saw a truly massive and rapid increase as a result of the earth warming and foliage growth.

The Phanerozoic is the current era, running from 549 MYA up to the present. I have been told by half a dozen deniers that the chronological resolution of proxy data of just 11,700 years of the Holocene Epoch was inadequate to support the contention that the rate of current CO2 and temperature increases were unprecedented. Yet now you claim to be able to identify higher rates in events hundreds of millions of years ago. Neat trick.

Within the last 65 million years, the most dramatic CO2 event was the Azolla event. This was a rapid reduction of CO2 which is given credit for the appearance of the Earth's iced poles. The event produced an 80% reduction in CO2 (3500 to 650 ppm) over a period of 800,000 years. The current event has produced a 43% increase (280 to 400 ppm) in 150 years.

Let's do the math: 3500 - 650 = 2850 ppm
2850 ppm / 800,000 = 0.00356 ppm / year

vs

120 ppm / 150 years = 0.8 ppm / year

So the current rate of change is 224 TIMES as fast as the fastest prior event in the last 65 million years

Lets do history. History says every claim you have made that increased temperatures will cause...didn't. Game, set, match.

westwall,
The debate between Crick and Billy_Bob aside, I have to say again that we could possibly be facing changes that have never happened before. Is it really worth the risk? Also, there are graphs that say all types of things. But Billy_Bob showed one that charted both temperatures and CO2 levels. Across the whole chart, temperatures led the way. But these days, CO2 is leading the way. That's something different. On another chart I was looking at it showed that methane release was also going up. Which as you probably know is an even worse greenhouse gas. I don't think we can yet call this dangerous game.

Why? What is different now than back then? The Earth is physically no different now than when it was significantly warmer. Even in the period of time where we have written history it has been far warmer. Not one catastrophe that the progressive socialists claim will happen, ever did. Furthermore, the historical record shows that CO2 rise follows temperature rise so the hysteria about CO2 is just that....hysteria not borne out by fact. Methane is the newest gas to try and panic the savages, but anyone with a brain can look back eight thousand years ago to the Holocene Thermal Maximum and see that even when temps were 5 degrees centigrade warmer than today NOTHING happened.

Well, not nothing. Life prospered. That much is very clear. Life likes it warm. ALL life.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Why? What is different now than back then? The Earth is physically no different now than when it was significantly warmer. Even in the period of time where we have written history it has been far warmer. Not one catastrophe that the progressive socialists claim will happen, ever did. Furthermore, the historical record shows that CO2 rise follows temperature rise so the hysteria about CO2 is just that....hysteria not borne out by fact. Methane is the newest gas to try and panic the savages, but anyone with a brain can look back eight thousand years ago to the Holocene Thermal Maximum and see that even when temps were 5 degrees centigrade warmer than today NOTHING happened.

Well, not nothing. Life prospered. That much is very clear. Life likes it warm. ALL life.

And That is the issue in a nut shell... That simple observation of the past lays the warmists hype waste.. WOW we just did science...!

 

[Crick]

Humans burning fossil fuels and putting its waste into the atmosphere at a rate not seen for 65 million years.

 

[SSDD]

Humans burning fossil fuels and putting its waste into the atmosphere at a rate not seen for 65 million years.

You mean not since the beginning of the ICE AGE that we are currently exiting?...Low CO2 during an ice age...who would have thought? You are among the most dishonest people on this board crick...everything you post is either an outright lie or an omission either because you are f'ing ignorant or a deliberate liar...like your arctic ice graphs that begin at a peak ice period and don't bother to look back a bit further when ice was as low or lower than it is today.

 

[Crick]

Since 1750. Since the steam engine. Since the automobile. Since electrification. You could use a history lesson.

 

[jc456]

..... and NATURE "pollutes" the atmos with 700GTons of CO2 every year as I told you before. Why didn't that sink in? You must just be on rant..

flacaltenn,
Where did I come up with the figures of all the volcanoes on earth putting out about 200 million tons of CO2 into the biosphere each year while the amount from human causes is about 26.8 billion tons. Well the first place I heard about it was from a documentary called, "Greedy Lying Bastards." For the producers of it, I would imagine that they did some fact checking. I also found these numbers at a USGS website. If you want to ask me who I believe is telling the truth, I afraid it isn't you.

Maybe they aren't taking into account things like how much methane termites produce. Or how much CO2 plants turn into oxygen. But none of that matters. It sounds like the kind of crap human caused global warming deniers would spout to confuse the issue. But what isn't confusing the issue is the increase of the human population. Or how wasteful our capitalist economic system is. Or that China has a new coal fired power plant come on line each week. etc. etc. etc. Call this a "rant" if you want to.

Ain't that sweet? hahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahaha...........

jc456,
If you're going to be flippant on the whole human caused global warming thing, why get involved at all.

Because I dislike when lies affect me and my family like you're intending sir. That's why. What is your answer? I know that you've been asked and have avoided the question. Do you sir, personally know that man is causing any issue with the planet other than pollution? You don't even bother doing any research, you just flat out believe because it's your party of choice right? Why not jump off a cliff if they told you to, or drink the koolaide, and on and on. I think for myself and I expect my family to do likewise.

jc456,
If you're asking me if I personally did the measurements that showed that all the volcanoes on earth put out an estimated 200 million tons of CO2 into the biosphere while mankind is responsible for an estimated 26.8 BILLION tons, no. I didn't personally do it. Or if I personally saw that last year the entire icesheet of Greenland experienced melting for the first time ever. No, I didn't personally view it. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

You know what the real problem is? That famly you speak of, they're fucking dead! They're deader than dead. The only question is how much hell they are going to go through before it happens. You are also feeling guilty because you're contributing to it. But trying to prevent it is too difficult. Somebody once basically said that it's nearly impossible to get somebody to understand the truth. Especially when their livelihood depends on them not understanding. Einstein also basically said that the solution to a problem can't be found by the same mind that created that problem.

I'm sorry if I was a little rough. But trying to deny the reality of human caused global warming isn't going to solve any problems. This brings up something I said to someone else. What if I am wrong. What's the worst that can happen. Our whole economy gets restructured to a more sustainable and ecologically compatable form for very little benefit. Other than what I stated. But what's the worst that can happen if people like you are arong. WOW! Just the thought of it is horrible.

and more and more and more dam I'm all 'd out!!!!! Just for Jimminie!!

 

[jc456]

Since 1750. Since the steam engine. Since the automobile. Since electrification. You could use a history lesson.

and more an more Geez Jimminie I'm all 'd out!!!

 

[mamooth]

jc, please end the thread spamming. Nobody likes it, and it's violating board rules.

 

[cultsmasher]

In my thread "Will You Vote Republican," somebody who goes by Vigilante sent me a reply that seems to refute the whole human caused global warming thing. But I thought my reply is something that you would all like to weigh in on.

Each year, all the volcanoes on earth put out an estimated 200 MILLION tons of CO2. Though some of this of course goes directly into the oceans. Humans on the other hand are responsible for an estimated 26.8 BILLION tons per year. Also, anybody who wishes to can look up a graph of the ammount of CO2 humans have put out since the beginning of the industrial revolution. Lately, human generated CO2 appears to be going up at a rate that is beyond exponential. There is a good chance that temperatures will follow suit.

This past summer, temperatures were fairly cool around where I live. But from what I have seen, if there are cooler temperatures in one area, it means that temperatures are hotter in another area of the earth.

I have a sister who is a human caused global warming denier. She points that in the far distant past, atmospheric CO2 levels were much higher than they are now. Which is true. Around one hundred million years ago or so, they were much higher. Apparently because of the breakup of the continents, things have been cooling down over a long time. Causing many ice ages. But as far as I have seen, this isn't something that happened a very long time ago. When global CO2 levels were much higher. We are in uncharted territory. No doubt there is much more methane in places like frozen tundra or shallow seas than there was in the far past. And methane is 20 times better at causing global warming than CO2. Just how much warming will it take for that to start getting released in ever greater quantity. It's hard to say. But there is one thing I know for sure. Most people don't really care what happens. As long as it happens to someone else.

Oh great, another idiot trying to convince others that "global warming" is real and that humans are to blame.
What a load of bullshit!

I have a sister who is a human caused global warming denier.

Good for her. At least she wasn't gullible like you are who bought into the bullshit lies and misinformation of global warming.

There is No Scientific Evidence That Humans are Causing Global Warming Lubbock Online Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

Wildcard,
It is interesting how people like you can deny the truth. Maybe it's through de-evoloution or brainwashing. Or maybe you are making a living through pollution. Though it could be that you are being paid by polluting companies to be a denier. Or maybe your skull is so thick, you need to hear things more than once. In that case, I will say it again.

Read this very slowly and try to understand. Each year, all the volcanos on earth put out an estimated 200 MILLION tons of CO2 into the biosphere. Each year, humans are responsible for putting out 26.8 BILLION tons!!!! Can you really think that doesn't make a difference? Really? You know, there is a reason why the vast majority of scientists agree that human caused global warming is a reality. Though unfortunately, it is the rich polluters who have the most access to your mind. On most program that I see, the TV god calls it (to be said with a really wimpy voice) climate change. But as I said, what it really should be called is (to be said with a firm, manly voice) human caused global warming.

 

[cultsmasher]

Since 1750. Since the steam engine. Since the automobile. Since electrification. You could use a history lesson.

and more an more Geez Jimminie I'm all 'd out!!!

jc456,
There you go trying to be flippant about the whole thing again. Let me know when you have something serious to say.

 

[cultsmasher]

Both of these points are factually incorrect. The rate of CO2 increase is far less than seen in Phanerozoic era. That Era saw a truly massive and rapid increase as a result of the earth warming and foliage growth.

The Phanerozoic is the current era, running from 549 MYA up to the present. I have been told by half a dozen deniers that the chronological resolution of proxy data of just 11,700 years of the Holocene Epoch was inadequate to support the contention that the rate of current CO2 and temperature increases were unprecedented. Yet now you claim to be able to identify higher rates in events hundreds of millions of years ago. Neat trick.

Within the last 65 million years, the most dramatic CO2 event was the Azolla event. This was a rapid reduction of CO2 which is given credit for the appearance of the Earth's iced poles. The event produced an 80% reduction in CO2 (3500 to 650 ppm) over a period of 800,000 years. The current event has produced a 43% increase (280 to 400 ppm) in 150 years.

Let's do the math: 3500 - 650 = 2850 ppm
2850 ppm / 800,000 = 0.00356 ppm / year

vs

120 ppm / 150 years = 0.8 ppm / year

So the current rate of change is 224 TIMES as fast as the fastest prior event in the last 65 million years

Lets do history. History says every claim you have made that increased temperatures will cause...didn't. Game, set, match.

westwall,
The debate between Crick and Billy_Bob aside, I have to say again that we could possibly be facing changes that have never happened before. Is it really worth the risk? Also, there are graphs that say all types of things. But Billy_Bob showed one that charted both temperatures and CO2 levels. Across the whole chart, temperatures led the way. But these days, CO2 is leading the way. That's something different. On another chart I was looking at it showed that methane release was also going up. Which as you probably know is an even worse greenhouse gas. I don't think we can yet call this dangerous game.

Why? What is different now than back then? The Earth is physically no different now than when it was significantly warmer. Even in the period of time where we have written history it has been far warmer. Not one catastrophe that the progressive socialists claim will happen, ever did. Furthermore, the historical record shows that CO2 rise follows temperature rise so the hysteria about CO2 is just that....hysteria not borne out by fact. Methane is the newest gas to try and panic the savages, but anyone with a brain can look back eight thousand years ago to the Holocene Thermal Maximum and see that even when temps were 5 degrees centigrade warmer than today NOTHING happened.

Well, not nothing. Life prospered. That much is very clear. Life likes it warm. ALL life.

westwall,
First of all, nobody wants to turn our economic system upside down. So what's going on with all the scientists who agree that human caused global warming is real. Are they just stupid? Well if I was to make such an assumption about them or you being so, I'm afraid it would be you.

That things have been a little warmer in the past is true. And as far as I know, nothing bad really happened. But that's not to say it couldn't. Especially when CO2 levels seem to be going up at a rate that is beyond exponential. And where CO2 goes, temperatures and methane release are sure to follow. But as I keep having to say, it's better to be safe than sorry.

Then there are things like melting glacers and desertification to consider. As things are now, there is a huge lake drying up in Africa. Causing the Darfur food war. There is another thing to consider with the past CO2 and global temperatures. It wasn't humans causing it. What the earth might naturally do is one thing. But what's our excuse.

Also, from what I was able to find out, China alone is starting a new coal fired power plant between two a week and one every ten days. You also bring up the Holocene thermal maxium. Which was after the last ice age. Well this may just be a savage talking, but how much methane do you think could have built up under a sheet of ice. Etc. All in all, I just can't see your silver lining.

 

[cultsmasher]

Why? What is different now than back then? The Earth is physically no different now than when it was significantly warmer. Even in the period of time where we have written history it has been far warmer. Not one catastrophe that the progressive socialists claim will happen, ever did. Furthermore, the historical record shows that CO2 rise follows temperature rise so the hysteria about CO2 is just that....hysteria not borne out by fact. Methane is the newest gas to try and panic the savages, but anyone with a brain can look back eight thousand years ago to the Holocene Thermal Maximum and see that even when temps were 5 degrees centigrade warmer than today NOTHING happened.

Well, not nothing. Life prospered. That much is very clear. Life likes it warm. ALL life.

And That is the issue in a nut shell... That simple observation of the past lays the warmists hype waste.. WOW we just did science...!

Billy_Bob,
You shouldn't be so quick to gloat. Just look at my reply to westwall.

 

[jc456]

jc, please end the thread spamming. Nobody likes it, and it's violating board rules.

I'll tell you what, grow some and stop acting like you own this thing or the answer will be no. I'm quite tired of stating the same thing over and over when you all keep posting garbage. Stop the garbage posts. You don't have the consensus and the sooner you get there and debate without insuls then all will be just fine, until, oh well. I didn't provide the smiley service, I use it for the role it was intended to call a post what it is.

 

[jc456]

Since 1750. Since the steam engine. Since the automobile. Since electrification. You could use a history lesson.

and more an more Geez Jimminie I'm all 'd out!!!

jc456,
There you go trying to be flippant about the whole thing again. Let me know when you have something serious to say.

Let me know when you stop posting the same thing five others have posted. go read the threads, and stop posting hashed out material.

 

[jc456]

In my thread "Will You Vote Republican," somebody who goes by Vigilante sent me a reply that seems to refute the whole human caused global warming thing. But I thought my reply is something that you would all like to weigh in on.

Each year, all the volcanoes on earth put out an estimated 200 MILLION tons of CO2. Though some of this of course goes directly into the oceans. Humans on the other hand are responsible for an estimated 26.8 BILLION tons per year. Also, anybody who wishes to can look up a graph of the ammount of CO2 humans have put out since the beginning of the industrial revolution. Lately, human generated CO2 appears to be going up at a rate that is beyond exponential. There is a good chance that temperatures will follow suit.

This past summer, temperatures were fairly cool around where I live. But from what I have seen, if there are cooler temperatures in one area, it means that temperatures are hotter in another area of the earth.

I have a sister who is a human caused global warming denier. She points that in the far distant past, atmospheric CO2 levels were much higher than they are now. Which is true. Around one hundred million years ago or so, they were much higher. Apparently because of the breakup of the continents, things have been cooling down over a long time. Causing many ice ages. But as far as I have seen, this isn't something that happened a very long time ago. When global CO2 levels were much higher. We are in uncharted territory. No doubt there is much more methane in places like frozen tundra or shallow seas than there was in the far past. And methane is 20 times better at causing global warming than CO2. Just how much warming will it take for that to start getting released in ever greater quantity. It's hard to say. But there is one thing I know for sure. Most people don't really care what happens. As long as it happens to someone else.

Oh great, another idiot trying to convince others that "global warming" is real and that humans are to blame.
What a load of bullshit!

I have a sister who is a human caused global warming denier.

Good for her. At least she wasn't gullible like you are who bought into the bullshit lies and misinformation of global warming.

There is No Scientific Evidence That Humans are Causing Global Warming Lubbock Online Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

Wildcard,
It is interesting how people like you can deny the truth. Maybe it's through de-evoloution or brainwashing. Or maybe you are making a living through pollution. Though it could be that you are being paid by polluting companies to be a denier. Or maybe your skull is so thick, you need to hear things more than once. In that case, I will say it again.

Read this very slowly and try to understand. Each year, all the volcanos on earth put out an estimated 200 MILLION tons of CO2 into the biosphere. Each year, humans are responsible for putting out 26.8 BILLION tons!!!! Can you really think that doesn't make a difference? Really? You know, there is a reason why the vast majority of scientists agree that human caused global warming is a reality. Though unfortunately, it is the rich polluters who have the most access to your mind. On most program that I see, the TV god calls it (to be said with a really wimpy voice) climate change. But as I said, what it really should be called is (to be said with a firm, manly voice) human caused global warming.

Dude, you understand you come off condescending. Perhaps why you get the responses you get. Why behave this way. You want a make this about quality of posts, fine post something of quality and stop with all the condescension.

 

[SSDD]

Since 1750. Since the steam engine. Since the automobile. Since electrification. You could use a history lesson.

Prior to the beginning of the present ice age...atmospheric CO2 was in excess of 1000ppm and an ice age started....doesn't say much for your belief that CO2 causes warming.

 

[westwall]

Humans burning fossil fuels and putting its waste into the atmosphere at a rate not seen for 65 million years.

And it all came from the Earth before, was in the Earths atmosphere before, and the CO2 concentrations have been higher and lower while the temps have likewise been higher and lower when CO2 concentrations were much higher. In fact, during the last interglacial, there was a 1000 year period where the CO2 concentrations were higher than they are today and the Earth went through two warm cold cycles. All while the CO2 levels remained elevated. Get your buddy olfraud to post the study again.

He refuses to use it after I pointed out that fact to him.

 

[cultsmasher]

Since 1750. Since the steam engine. Since the automobile. Since electrification. You could use a history lesson.

Prior to the beginning of the present ice age...atmospheric CO2 was in excess of 1000ppm and an ice age started....doesn't say much for your belief that CO2 causes warming.

SSDD,
From what I read, what caused the last ice age didn't have anything to do with CO2. It had to do with the formation of the Isthmus of Panama.

 

[westwall]

Both of these points are factually incorrect. The rate of CO2 increase is far less than seen in Phanerozoic era. That Era saw a truly massive and rapid increase as a result of the earth warming and foliage growth.

The Phanerozoic is the current era, running from 549 MYA up to the present. I have been told by half a dozen deniers that the chronological resolution of proxy data of just 11,700 years of the Holocene Epoch was inadequate to support the contention that the rate of current CO2 and temperature increases were unprecedented. Yet now you claim to be able to identify higher rates in events hundreds of millions of years ago. Neat trick.

Within the last 65 million years, the most dramatic CO2 event was the Azolla event. This was a rapid reduction of CO2 which is given credit for the appearance of the Earth's iced poles. The event produced an 80% reduction in CO2 (3500 to 650 ppm) over a period of 800,000 years. The current event has produced a 43% increase (280 to 400 ppm) in 150 years.

Let's do the math: 3500 - 650 = 2850 ppm
2850 ppm / 800,000 = 0.00356 ppm / year

vs

120 ppm / 150 years = 0.8 ppm / year

So the current rate of change is 224 TIMES as fast as the fastest prior event in the last 65 million years

Lets do history. History says every claim you have made that increased temperatures will cause...didn't. Game, set, match.

westwall,
The debate between Crick and Billy_Bob aside, I have to say again that we could possibly be facing changes that have never happened before. Is it really worth the risk? Also, there are graphs that say all types of things. But Billy_Bob showed one that charted both temperatures and CO2 levels. Across the whole chart, temperatures led the way. But these days, CO2 is leading the way. That's something different. On another chart I was looking at it showed that methane release was also going up. Which as you probably know is an even worse greenhouse gas. I don't think we can yet call this dangerous game.

Why? What is different now than back then? The Earth is physically no different now than when it was significantly warmer. Even in the period of time where we have written history it has been far warmer. Not one catastrophe that the progressive socialists claim will happen, ever did. Furthermore, the historical record shows that CO2 rise follows temperature rise so the hysteria about CO2 is just that....hysteria not borne out by fact. Methane is the newest gas to try and panic the savages, but anyone with a brain can look back eight thousand years ago to the Holocene Thermal Maximum and see that even when temps were 5 degrees centigrade warmer than today NOTHING happened.

Well, not nothing. Life prospered. That much is very clear. Life likes it warm. ALL life.

westwall,
First of all, nobody wants to turn our economic system upside down. So what's going on with all the scientists who agree that human caused global warming is real. Are they just stupid? Well if I was to make such an assumption about them or you being so, I'm afraid it would be you.

That things have been a little warmer in the past is true. And as far as I know, nothing bad really happened. But that's not to say it couldn't. Especially when CO2 levels seem to be going up at a rate that is beyond exponential. And where CO2 goes, temperatures and methane release are sure to follow. But as I keep having to say, it's better to be safe than sorry.

Then there are things like melting glacers and desertification to consider. As things are now, there is a huge lake drying up in Africa. Causing the Darfur food war. There is another thing to consider with the past CO2 and global temperatures. It wasn't humans causing it. What the earth might naturally do is one thing. But what's our excuse.

Also, from what I was able to find out, China alone is starting a new coal fired power plant between two a week and one every ten days. You also bring up the Holocene thermal maxium. Which was after the last ice age. Well this may just be a savage talking, but how much methane do you think could have built up under a sheet of ice. Etc. All in all, I just can't see your silver lining.

Those same scientists claimed that another ice age was impending in the 1970's too. They are shysters looking for government handouts and the only way you get government handouts is by presenting scary scenarios.

Glacier loss began with the end of the Little Ice Age. 90% of the glacier loss was BEFORE 1900. Desertification is a perennial thing but parts of the Sahara are actually greening again or hadn't you heard?

Sahara Desert Greening Due to Climate Change

The Darfur food war is caused by government corruption as are 99% of sub Saharan Africa's problems.

And all of this is merely window dressing for the fact that CO2 doesn't drive temperatures. Trace gasses simply don't have the power that the faithful claim they do. The Earths atmospheric engine is far more powerful than any climatologist can imagine and is far far more capable of dealing with anything we pathetic humans are capable of doing.

Progressives like you love to claim that you really don't want to harm the economies of the world and I can't figure out if you're just ignorant or lying. The cost to do "something" which even your high priests stipulate might not work (and their goal is merely to lower the global average temperature by ONE degree in 100 years....conveniently after they are long dead after having robbed you blind) is a mere 76 TRILLION dollars.

Who gets that money? Politicians, third world dictators, bankers, scientists of course, Big Oil, industrialists, and of course a few hundred thousand workers will make some decent money while they are putting up this new "green" infrastructure, and not one penny is actually earmarked for pollution control.

You can come back to me when you actually know something more than the talking points you've been given.

 

[SSDD]

Since 1750. Since the steam engine. Since the automobile. Since electrification. You could use a history lesson.

Prior to the beginning of the present ice age...atmospheric CO2 was in excess of 1000ppm and an ice age started....doesn't say much for your belief that CO2 causes warming.

SSDD,
From what I read, what caused the last ice age didn't have anything to do with CO2. It had to do with the formation of the Isthmus of Panama.

We don't have any idea what caused the last ice age or the one before that or the one before that...nor do we know what caused the ice ages to end...it is all guessing. What we do know is that atmospheric CO2 has been in excess of 7000ppm here on earth and it didn't trigger any sort of runaway greenhouse effect causing anything like the sort of warming being claimed by warmers today...we know that in the past, the earth has fallen into ice ages with atmospheric CO2 over 4500ppm, and again with atmospheric CO2 over 4000ppm and again with atmospheric CO2 over 2000ppm and the last ice age..the one the earth has been exiting for a good long time now began with atmospheric CO2 over 1000ppm.

Relative to earth history, the atmosphere of the earth is positively starved for CO2 at its present levels. It is doubtful that CO2 has anything at all to do with climate other than it increases as it warms due mainly to outgassing by warming waters and it decreases as it cools due to the fact that cooler water can hold more CO2...