I may have gotten the impeachment thing all wrong

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump didn't ever say he held up funds for the investigation. The Democrats made that up. Trump said he held up aid to investigate what other members of the UN were contributing. But don't listen to Trump, listen to what the Democrats concluded because Democrats can read minds. Forget about what Trump said.

Wrong. The Dems didn’t make that up. Trumps own staffers who were in charge of the funds and relations with Ukraine testified to that. I also think you know it’s true, I would push to hard with the Trump never said it argument. We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually

What a minute, which staffers? I didn't see any. The only person to testify that he or she spoke directly with the President on the matter was ambassador Sondland, and he testified when he spoke to President Trump directly, Trump told him no quid pro quo; he didn't want anything from President Zelensky.

Trump said no quid pro quo after he found out he was being accused of a quid pro quo. You can’t be that gullible can you ray?

Then show me somebody who testified that Trump told them the reason he was withholding aid was for a quid pro quo. We have all the testimony on video. Nobody except Sondland testified that they spoke with Trump directly on the matter.

Actually, Soundland didn't say that. Schiff pressured him to say that the aid was held up as a quid pro quo for the investigation, but Soundland said as far as he knew, the only quid pro quo was an invitation to the WH. The charges in the Articles of Impeachment are entirely without substantiating evidence.

No, Sondland said exactly that. He said he called Trump personally to find out what he wanted with Ukraine.

 

[progressive hunter]

Yes I can. EVERY president we've had has blocked congress from shit they wanted. Executive Privilege. Look it up. They could have gone to court and the court decides what witnesses/documents Trump's administration has to give up. But they're in a fucking hurry because ELECTION! If he gets elected, they know they are fucked for another 4 years.

They said the evidence was OVERWHELMING. Why would they need more. Look up the definition of OVERWHELM. I posted it above. Go read it. They impeached him based on the evidence they gathered. That should be MORE than enough. They are looking for discovery in a trial. They should have done all of the discovery in the inquiry in the house. That's ass backwards and it's only because more shit keeps coming forward. Kinda like the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing. Dribble, dribble, dribble. They figured they could get around the courts by having the Senate do the job of the house and that's BULLSHIT.

Don't be fooled so easily. Look at it objectively.

Trump wasn't even allowed to defend himself in the House Impeachment Inquiry. Why should he give up anyFUCKINGthing.

Would you participate in your own impeachment if YOU couldn't defend yourself?

You’ve got to be joking!! Yes all presidents invoke privilege, as they should, but none have even come close to what Trump is doing. We aren’t talking about private strategy meetings or national security issues. We are talking about state department business, transcripts, complaints made by staffers to attorneys and a slew of other relevant pieces to this situation.

What are you talking about? DumBama did it during Fast and Furious. He refused to surrender subpoenaed documents to the Republican House.

the Fast and Furious situation stayed in court for 7 years. And you all were bitching about Nancy holding the articles for a couple weeks?! Come on!

Yes, that's the process it's supposed to follow, not impeachment. If there is a disagreement about how EP is used, it goes to the courts like the Republicans did. The Democrats didn't even consider it. Instead, they chose to charge him with obstruction.

EP was never invoked. Not once.

didnt you get the memo???

you must not be important enough,,,

 

[Nostra]

Why aren't you mad at Nazi's Clowns for not doing their job in the House?

They did their job. The Senate is not.

Bullshit. Get an education on how impeachment works.

The House investigates and makes a case, then presents it to the Senate. The Senate then decides to impeach or acquit. The Senate does not investigate.

Get a clue for once in your pathetic life.

The Senate holds the trial. You should know that by now. I even posted a copy of the Constitutional language regarding impeachment. Oh..that's right you gave me a funny for that post...that explains your comments then.

I just said the Senate holds the trial, idiot. The House does the investigation.

Please try to keep up.

You wrote that the “Senate then decides to impeach or acquit’. No, the House does the impeachment, the Senate then holds a trial and then either convicts or acquits.

Misspoke. Convict or acquit.

 

[Slade3200]

It’s obvious to me, but if you have doubts just wait. Time always brings this stuff out. I have a feeling Trumps lies will be exposed for years to come after his presidency

Ok, so now you are talking about your feelings and not about facts.

True, this post was a prediction not a proclamation of facts. Thought that was obvious

OH BULLSHIT!!!
you comment was "We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually""

HOW IS THAT A PREDICTION???

Haha, stop stomping your feet... I just see Trump hiding intel that will eventually come out and show that he was lying about his motives for holding those funds. Just a prediction

BUT THATS NOT WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE WHEN YOU CALLED IT A PREDICTION,,it was a statement of fact that "WE ALL KNEW IT"

you need to be clear when you spout bullshit opinions,,,

oh really? so when I literally said “I have a feeling” you somehow thought that was a statement of fact and not a prediction? I’m sorry you are so easily confused.

 

[progressive hunter]

Ok, so now you are talking about your feelings and not about facts.

True, this post was a prediction not a proclamation of facts. Thought that was obvious

OH BULLSHIT!!!
you comment was "We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually""

HOW IS THAT A PREDICTION???

Haha, stop stomping your feet... I just see Trump hiding intel that will eventually come out and show that he was lying about his motives for holding those funds. Just a prediction

BUT THATS NOT WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE WHEN YOU CALLED IT A PREDICTION,,it was a statement of fact that "WE ALL KNEW IT"

you need to be clear when you spout bullshit opinions,,,

oh really? so when I literally said “I have a feeling” you somehow thought that was a statement of fact and not a prediction? I’m sorry you are so easily confused.

I wasnt talking about that part,,I was talking about the part I copy and pasted,,,

for fucks sake your an idiot,,,

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

I thought that the House was presenting overwhelming and incontrovertible evidence....wtf.

How can McConnell cover that up? That should be impossible

Are you saying that the House presented two Articles: 1. Orange Man Bad and 2.Bad Orange Man hurt our feelings with NO EVIDENCE for either?

They’ve got their case and their evidence. They are also asking for access to info that they were blocked from getting during the inquiry. Why do you not want them to get that info?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I dont care to defend myself because my personal feelings make no difference to the points I’m debating. Going personal is a weak distraction tactic. You can have the point and think whatever you want. I’m a hypocritical partisan snowflake. Ok now what?

You are right in your assessment. The bottom line is this: Trumpers do not care that Trump sought to abuse his office, extort a nation state and demand a quid pro quo. They will gladly concede that he did so. They contend that Trump did not commit a crime and therefore he cannot be impeached, convicted and removed from office. That is their argument.

So, their reasoning is if it is not a crime and a President can only be impeached for a crime the impeachment proceeding was invalid. (There is considerable evidence in the Federalist Papers among other sources that this view is wrong and in my opinion it is. You don't need a crime to impeach a president).

So what Trumpers are saying is if the President wants to declassify our nuclear codes and give them to his good friend and likely handler, V. Putin, or publish them on the internet, he can do so because the President can declassify information and if he wants to do that, well that is his prerogative. Declassifying intelligence is a presidential prerogative therefor non-impeachable.

But Trumpers go beyond that even.

Trump himself argues that while in office the president is immune form prosecution. That is similar to the laws of immunity they have in Brazil for its president. Trump's attorneys have argued that if Trump shoots someone on fifth avenue, commits rape, mass murder, whatever he is still immune from prosecution while in office.

That is their view.

Welcome to Trumplandia.

Impeachment is the resolution for a President that was guilty of committing a misdemeanor, high crime, bribery or treason. Trump did none of these things. Now if you want to go down this road that a crime is not needed, remember your team set is setting that precedent right now, and payback is a bitch.

So, the precedent you are fine with is that any President of the United States can use the powers of the presidency to force and coerce another nation state to spy on a domestic political opponent for personal and political gain. Let's take that further. Your view is that Trump can use the State Department as own personal foreign relations office and the DOJ as his own personal praetorian guard. That is what Trump is doing and apparently you are fine with it. Yeah..don't give me that crap about payback. It is the nation that will be forever scarred by the actions of the maniac in office and those that have enabled him.

Oh, trust me, you will regret this, the next Dem President with a Republican House. And I don't want to see you or any leftist here bitching about it when he or she is impeached for farting in public.

Biden was not Trump's rival when he made that request to Zelensky. Biden is the rival of his fellow Democrats running for the nomination. In order for Democrats to honestly make that claim, they would have to present their crystal ball, and prove how accurate it is, and that's where they got their information, or the documentation that the primary will be rigged for Biden. Then they would have to prove Trump had knowledge of either.

Bottom line is this is all made up by the Democrats; the entire impeachment. This is the first impeachment in history with no crime, first impeachment conducted on mind reading, and first impeachment conducted by being able to see in the future.

If any future Democratic president acts like Trump, yeah the bastard should be impeached. This type of corruption and abuse of power is fine for Trumpers, but not for me. I expect more from a President of the United States.

Obstruction of justice is very vague, and could be applied to just about anything. Abuse of power? What President in our past isn't actually guilty of that?

 

[JLW]

So, the precedent you are fine with is that any President of the United States can use the powers of the presidency to force and coerce another nation state to spy on a domestic political opponent for personal and political gain. Let's take that further. Your view is that Trump can use the State Department as own personal foreign relations office and the DOJ as his own personal praetorian guard. That is what Trump is doing and apparently you are fine with it. Yeah..don't give me that crap about payback. It is the nation that will be forever scarred by the actions of the maniac in office and those that have enabled him.

The Precedent you want to set is To MAKE AN UNFOUNDED ACCUSATION, and Then Violate Every Civil Right and DUE PROCESS there is to try to Prove Your False Accusation True.

You have no evidence. You cannot even cite a violation of US Code.

That is not the point. Contrary to what you say there is overwhelming evidence that Trump sought a quid pro quo from Zelensky. The point is most Trump supporters don't care he extorted a nation state. You just don't.

Even if Trump did, and even if it could be proven, how is that different than what Joe Biden did?

Don't give that Joe Biden garbage. Biden had the backing of international organizations, the EU when he went after Shokin for corruption. Berisma was not even under investigation when Biden went after Shokin. Berisma was investigated before Hunter Biden got involved with them. Hunter is a sleaze in his personal life, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to Biden's actions against the corrupt Shokin. If I thought Joe Biden was corrupt I would say so. I know you may not believe it but I would.

Link to the EU and "international organizations" sending Quid Pro Joe to extort the Ukranian President.

Good heaven’s man, you guys are so divorced from reality it is downright scary. When Biden on behalf of the United States government, the EU and others threatened to withhold aid to the Ukraine it was because they wanted to remove a corrupt prosecutor. Contrast to Trump who on behalf of himself and only himself chose to extort a nation state at war unless they did his bidding. If you can’t see the difference, well there is nothing I can do for you.

 

[Slade3200]

True, this post was a prediction not a proclamation of facts. Thought that was obvious

OH BULLSHIT!!!
you comment was "We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually""

HOW IS THAT A PREDICTION???

Haha, stop stomping your feet... I just see Trump hiding intel that will eventually come out and show that he was lying about his motives for holding those funds. Just a prediction

BUT THATS NOT WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE WHEN YOU CALLED IT A PREDICTION,,it was a statement of fact that "WE ALL KNEW IT"

you need to be clear when you spout bullshit opinions,,,

oh really? so when I literally said “I have a feeling” you somehow thought that was a statement of fact and not a prediction? I’m sorry you are so easily confused.

I wasnt talking about that part,,I was talking about the part I copy and pasted,,,

for fucks sake your an idiot,,,

Well that line is fact. The intel that he is hiding... docs, transcripts and eye witness testimony does contain the truth about what happened. Do you really challenge the validity of that?

 

[The Original Tree]

Was that you with the outburst in The Gallery?

The Precedent you want to set is To MAKE AN UNFOUNDED ACCUSATION, and Then Violate Every Civil Right and DUE PROCESS there is to try to Prove Your False Accusation True.

You have no evidence. You cannot even cite a violation of US Code.

That is not the point. Contrary to what you say there is overwhelming evidence that Trump sought a quid pro quo from Zelensky. The point is most Trump supporters don't care he extorted a nation state. You just don't.

Even if Trump did, and even if it could be proven, how is that different than what Joe Biden did?

Don't give that Joe Biden garbage. Biden had the backing of international organizations, the EU when he went after Shokin for corruption. Berisma was not even under investigation when Biden went after Shokin. Berisma was investigated before Hunter Biden got involved with them. Hunter is a sleaze in his personal life, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to Biden's actions against the corrupt Shokin. If I thought Joe Biden was corrupt I would say so. I know you may not believe it but I would.

Link to the EU and "international organizations" sending Quid Pro Joe to extort the Ukranian President.

Good heaven’s man, you guys are so divorced from reality it is downright scary. When Biden on behalf of the United States government, the EU and others threatened to withhold aid to the Ukraine it was because they wanted to remove a corrupt prosecutor. Contrast to Trump who on behalf of himself and only himself chose to extort a nation state at war unless they did his bidding. If you can’t see the difference, well there is nothing I can do for you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Precedent you want to set is To MAKE AN UNFOUNDED ACCUSATION, and Then Violate Every Civil Right and DUE PROCESS there is to try to Prove Your False Accusation True.

You have no evidence. You cannot even cite a violation of US Code.

That is not the point. Contrary to what you say there is overwhelming evidence that Trump sought a quid pro quo from Zelensky. The point is most Trump supporters don't care he extorted a nation state. You just don't.

Even if Trump did, and even if it could be proven, how is that different than what Joe Biden did?

Don't give that Joe Biden garbage. Biden had the backing of international organizations, the EU when he went after Shokin for corruption. Berisma was not even under investigation when Biden went after Shokin. Berisma was investigated before Hunter Biden got involved with them. Hunter is a sleaze in his personal life, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to Biden's actions against the corrupt Shokin. If I thought Joe Biden was corrupt I would say so. I know you may not believe it but I would.

Link to the EU and "international organizations" sending Quid Pro Joe to extort the Ukranian President.

Good heaven’s man, you guys are so divorced from reality it is downright scary. When Biden on behalf of the United States government, the EU and others threatened to withhold aid to the Ukraine it was because they wanted to remove a corrupt prosecutor. Contrast to Trump who on behalf of himself and only himself chose to extort a nation state at war unless they did his bidding. If you can’t see the difference, well there is nothing I can do for you.

Yet we have Shokin on video stating he was fired for just the opposite. He was breathing down Hunter's back, and ready to confiscate assets of Burisma.

 

[OKTexas]

The Precedent you want to set is To MAKE AN UNFOUNDED ACCUSATION, and Then Violate Every Civil Right and DUE PROCESS there is to try to Prove Your False Accusation True.

You have no evidence. You cannot even cite a violation of US Code.

That is not the point. Contrary to what you say there is overwhelming evidence that Trump sought a quid pro quo from Zelensky. The point is most Trump supporters don't care he extorted a nation state. You just don't.

Even if Trump did, and even if it could be proven, how is that different than what Joe Biden did?

Don't give that Joe Biden garbage. Biden had the backing of international organizations, the EU when he went after Shokin for corruption. Berisma was not even under investigation when Biden went after Shokin. Berisma was investigated before Hunter Biden got involved with them. Hunter is a sleaze in his personal life, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to Biden's actions against the corrupt Shokin. If I thought Joe Biden was corrupt I would say so. I know you may not believe it but I would.

Link to the EU and "international organizations" sending Quid Pro Joe to extort the Ukranian President.

Good heaven’s man, you guys are so divorced from reality it is downright scary. When Biden on behalf of the United States government, the EU and others threatened to withhold aid to the Ukraine it was because they wanted to remove a corrupt prosecutor. Contrast to Trump who on behalf of himself and only himself chose to extort a nation state at war unless they did his bidding. If you can’t see the difference, well there is nothing I can do for you.

Could you please provide the quote from the transcript of the call where Trump asked for anything for himself.

.

 

[The Original Tree]

Oh go choke on a hotdog.
4 years of “He’s hiding something we just know it” and America is sick of you.

Now shut up, The Servant of Ollie Assburn is quoting scripture and asking Moohomo the Profit to bless him.

OH BULLSHIT!!!
you comment was "We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually""

HOW IS THAT A PREDICTION???

Haha, stop stomping your feet... I just see Trump hiding intel that will eventually come out and show that he was lying about his motives for holding those funds. Just a prediction

BUT THATS NOT WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE WHEN YOU CALLED IT A PREDICTION,,it was a statement of fact that "WE ALL KNEW IT"

you need to be clear when you spout bullshit opinions,,,

oh really? so when I literally said “I have a feeling” you somehow thought that was a statement of fact and not a prediction? I’m sorry you are so easily confused.

I wasnt talking about that part,,I was talking about the part I copy and pasted,,,

for fucks sake your an idiot,,,

Well that line is fact. The intel that he is hiding... docs, transcripts and eye witness testimony does contain the truth about what happened. Do you really challenge the validity of that?

 

[Nostra]

The Precedent you want to set is To MAKE AN UNFOUNDED ACCUSATION, and Then Violate Every Civil Right and DUE PROCESS there is to try to Prove Your False Accusation True.

You have no evidence. You cannot even cite a violation of US Code.

That is not the point. Contrary to what you say there is overwhelming evidence that Trump sought a quid pro quo from Zelensky. The point is most Trump supporters don't care he extorted a nation state. You just don't.

Even if Trump did, and even if it could be proven, how is that different than what Joe Biden did?

Don't give that Joe Biden garbage. Biden had the backing of international organizations, the EU when he went after Shokin for corruption. Berisma was not even under investigation when Biden went after Shokin. Berisma was investigated before Hunter Biden got involved with them. Hunter is a sleaze in his personal life, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to Biden's actions against the corrupt Shokin. If I thought Joe Biden was corrupt I would say so. I know you may not believe it but I would.

Link to the EU and "international organizations" sending Quid Pro Joe to extort the Ukranian President.

Good heaven’s man, you guys are so divorced from reality it is downright scary. When Biden on behalf of the United States government, the EU and others threatened to withhold aid to the Ukraine it was because they wanted to remove a corrupt prosecutor. Contrast to Trump who on behalf of himself and only himself chose to extort a nation state at war unless they did his bidding. If you can’t see the difference, well there is nothing I can do for you.

So, no link.

Got it.

 

[JLW]

You are right in your assessment. The bottom line is this: Trumpers do not care that Trump sought to abuse his office, extort a nation state and demand a quid pro quo. They will gladly concede that he did so. They contend that Trump did not commit a crime and therefore he cannot be impeached, convicted and removed from office. That is their argument.

So, their reasoning is if it is not a crime and a President can only be impeached for a crime the impeachment proceeding was invalid. (There is considerable evidence in the Federalist Papers among other sources that this view is wrong and in my opinion it is. You don't need a crime to impeach a president).

So what Trumpers are saying is if the President wants to declassify our nuclear codes and give them to his good friend and likely handler, V. Putin, or publish them on the internet, he can do so because the President can declassify information and if he wants to do that, well that is his prerogative. Declassifying intelligence is a presidential prerogative therefor non-impeachable.

But Trumpers go beyond that even.

Trump himself argues that while in office the president is immune form prosecution. That is similar to the laws of immunity they have in Brazil for its president. Trump's attorneys have argued that if Trump shoots someone on fifth avenue, commits rape, mass murder, whatever he is still immune from prosecution while in office.

That is their view.

Welcome to Trumplandia.

Impeachment is the resolution for a President that was guilty of committing a misdemeanor, high crime, bribery or treason. Trump did none of these things. Now if you want to go down this road that a crime is not needed, remember your team set is setting that precedent right now, and payback is a bitch.

So, the precedent you are fine with is that any President of the United States can use the powers of the presidency to force and coerce another nation state to spy on a domestic political opponent for personal and political gain. Let's take that further. Your view is that Trump can use the State Department as own personal foreign relations office and the DOJ as his own personal praetorian guard. That is what Trump is doing and apparently you are fine with it. Yeah..don't give me that crap about payback. It is the nation that will be forever scarred by the actions of the maniac in office and those that have enabled him.

Oh, trust me, you will regret this, the next Dem President with a Republican House. And I don't want to see you or any leftist here bitching about it when he or she is impeached for farting in public.

Biden was not Trump's rival when he made that request to Zelensky. Biden is the rival of his fellow Democrats running for the nomination. In order for Democrats to honestly make that claim, they would have to present their crystal ball, and prove how accurate it is, and that's where they got their information, or the documentation that the primary will be rigged for Biden. Then they would have to prove Trump had knowledge of either.

Bottom line is this is all made up by the Democrats; the entire impeachment. This is the first impeachment in history with no crime, first impeachment conducted on mind reading, and first impeachment conducted by being able to see in the future.

If any future Democratic president acts like Trump, yeah the bastard should be impeached. This type of corruption and abuse of power is fine for Trumpers, but not for me. I expect more from a President of the United States.

Obstruction of justice is very vague, and could be applied to just about anything. Abuse of power? What President in our past isn't actually guilty of that?

Obstruction in this case is easy to prove as it is Trump’s refusal to comply with the House subpoenas. I can understand Trump’s position that he was challenging the subpoenas in Court. The question was the broad rejection of all House requests. You told me earlier that there will be payback when Repubs take back the House, well I have news for you, the next President can give the fat middle finger to the House without a care because the precedent would have been set that a House subpoena means squat.

‘As to abuse of power that goes without saying. The evidence is so overwhelming that the only reason one can acquit is if one doesn’t care. That is just another precedent for unrestricted presidential power.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

OH BULLSHIT!!!
you comment was "We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually""

HOW IS THAT A PREDICTION???

Haha, stop stomping your feet... I just see Trump hiding intel that will eventually come out and show that he was lying about his motives for holding those funds. Just a prediction

BUT THATS NOT WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE WHEN YOU CALLED IT A PREDICTION,,it was a statement of fact that "WE ALL KNEW IT"

you need to be clear when you spout bullshit opinions,,,

oh really? so when I literally said “I have a feeling” you somehow thought that was a statement of fact and not a prediction? I’m sorry you are so easily confused.

I wasnt talking about that part,,I was talking about the part I copy and pasted,,,

for fucks sake your an idiot,,,

Well that line is fact. The intel that he is hiding... docs, transcripts and eye witness testimony does contain the truth about what happened. Do you really challenge the validity of that?

That's what they Democrats are saying. Never trust the party of lies.

The problem with all this is that Trump is not a professional politician, so they really have nothing on him about his past. They keep bringing up crap like his taxes, documentation they want to see, testimony from witnesses hoping to run into something, his business dealings overseas.......

I've yet to see the Democrats say what it is they think they have, and what evidence they have to obtain these documents or question these witnesses. In other words, it's a continuation of their fishing expedition. Mitch is correct in not participating and dragging this out until spring.

 

[progressive hunter]

OH BULLSHIT!!!
you comment was "We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually""

HOW IS THAT A PREDICTION???

Haha, stop stomping your feet... I just see Trump hiding intel that will eventually come out and show that he was lying about his motives for holding those funds. Just a prediction

BUT THATS NOT WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE WHEN YOU CALLED IT A PREDICTION,,it was a statement of fact that "WE ALL KNEW IT"

you need to be clear when you spout bullshit opinions,,,

oh really? so when I literally said “I have a feeling” you somehow thought that was a statement of fact and not a prediction? I’m sorry you are so easily confused.

I wasnt talking about that part,,I was talking about the part I copy and pasted,,,

for fucks sake your an idiot,,,

Well that line is fact. The intel that he is hiding... docs, transcripts and eye witness testimony does contain the truth about what happened. Do you really challenge the validity of that?

there hasnt been any eye witness testimony,,,just hearsay and 3rd hand info,,,

and the truth about what happened is he got wind of the DNC colluding with Ukraine officials to effect the 2016 election and also a lot of stuff about a former VP that seemed to be playing a big pay to play game and receiving kickbacks so he asked their president to look into it for him and looped in the AG and his private attorney,,

that is one of his job description after all,,,

 

[Slade3200]

That is not the point. Contrary to what you say there is overwhelming evidence that Trump sought a quid pro quo from Zelensky. The point is most Trump supporters don't care he extorted a nation state. You just don't.

Even if Trump did, and even if it could be proven, how is that different than what Joe Biden did?

Don't give that Joe Biden garbage. Biden had the backing of international organizations, the EU when he went after Shokin for corruption. Berisma was not even under investigation when Biden went after Shokin. Berisma was investigated before Hunter Biden got involved with them. Hunter is a sleaze in his personal life, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to Biden's actions against the corrupt Shokin. If I thought Joe Biden was corrupt I would say so. I know you may not believe it but I would.

Link to the EU and "international organizations" sending Quid Pro Joe to extort the Ukranian President.

Good heaven’s man, you guys are so divorced from reality it is downright scary. When Biden on behalf of the United States government, the EU and others threatened to withhold aid to the Ukraine it was because they wanted to remove a corrupt prosecutor. Contrast to Trump who on behalf of himself and only himself chose to extort a nation state at war unless they did his bidding. If you can’t see the difference, well there is nothing I can do for you.

Yet we have Shokin on video stating he was fired for just the opposite. He was breathing down Hunter's back, and ready to confiscate assets of Burisma.

And you believe Shokin... why?

 

[Nostra]

Impeachment is the resolution for a President that was guilty of committing a misdemeanor, high crime, bribery or treason. Trump did none of these things. Now if you want to go down this road that a crime is not needed, remember your team set is setting that precedent right now, and payback is a bitch.

So, the precedent you are fine with is that any President of the United States can use the powers of the presidency to force and coerce another nation state to spy on a domestic political opponent for personal and political gain. Let's take that further. Your view is that Trump can use the State Department as own personal foreign relations office and the DOJ as his own personal praetorian guard. That is what Trump is doing and apparently you are fine with it. Yeah..don't give me that crap about payback. It is the nation that will be forever scarred by the actions of the maniac in office and those that have enabled him.

Oh, trust me, you will regret this, the next Dem President with a Republican House. And I don't want to see you or any leftist here bitching about it when he or she is impeached for farting in public.

Biden was not Trump's rival when he made that request to Zelensky. Biden is the rival of his fellow Democrats running for the nomination. In order for Democrats to honestly make that claim, they would have to present their crystal ball, and prove how accurate it is, and that's where they got their information, or the documentation that the primary will be rigged for Biden. Then they would have to prove Trump had knowledge of either.

Bottom line is this is all made up by the Democrats; the entire impeachment. This is the first impeachment in history with no crime, first impeachment conducted on mind reading, and first impeachment conducted by being able to see in the future.

If any future Democratic president acts like Trump, yeah the bastard should be impeached. This type of corruption and abuse of power is fine for Trumpers, but not for me. I expect more from a President of the United States.

Obstruction of justice is very vague, and could be applied to just about anything. Abuse of power? What President in our past isn't actually guilty of that?

Obstruction in this case is easy to prove as it is Trump’s refusal to comply with the House subpoenas. I can understand Trump’s position that he was challenging the subpoenas in Court. The question was the broad rejection of all House requests. You told me earlier that there will be payback when Repubs take back the House, well I have news for you, the President can give the fat middle finger to the House without a care because the precedent would have been set that a House subpoena means squat.

‘As to abuse of power that goes without saying. The evidence is so overwhelming that the only reason one can acquit is if one doesn’t care. That is just another precedent for unrestricted presidential power.

Challenging things in court isn't obstruction of "justice" (which isn't in the Articles of Impeachment anyway), it is how our system works. House Clowns decided to NOT got to the courts for a ruling.

That's on them. Not Trump. Not the Senate. The Senate isn't there to clean up the mess Nazi, Schifferbrains, and Nadless created.

 

[Nostra]

Even if Trump did, and even if it could be proven, how is that different than what Joe Biden did?

Don't give that Joe Biden garbage. Biden had the backing of international organizations, the EU when he went after Shokin for corruption. Berisma was not even under investigation when Biden went after Shokin. Berisma was investigated before Hunter Biden got involved with them. Hunter is a sleaze in his personal life, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to Biden's actions against the corrupt Shokin. If I thought Joe Biden was corrupt I would say so. I know you may not believe it but I would.

Link to the EU and "international organizations" sending Quid Pro Joe to extort the Ukranian President.

Good heaven’s man, you guys are so divorced from reality it is downright scary. When Biden on behalf of the United States government, the EU and others threatened to withhold aid to the Ukraine it was because they wanted to remove a corrupt prosecutor. Contrast to Trump who on behalf of himself and only himself chose to extort a nation state at war unless they did his bidding. If you can’t see the difference, well there is nothing I can do for you.

Yet we have Shokin on video stating he was fired for just the opposite. He was breathing down Hunter's back, and ready to confiscate assets of Burisma.

And you believe Shokin... why?

He has more credibility than you.