‘I will never join the army’: ultra-Orthodox Jews vow to defy Israeli court orders

[Sherlock Holmes]

The issue seems to be effecting Netanyahu’s coalition.

This is proof positive to any remaining doubters, Israel today is antisemitic. In fact though the fake state of "Israel" has always been antisemitic because militant Zionism that began to really take root in Palestine in the 1920s, was always concerned far more about nationalism than living peacefully in Palestine.

At that time Zionist (and sometimes terrorist) cells were operating throughout Palestine and mirrored the Nazis in their insidious manipulation of Jews with ideological "schools" akin to the Hitler Youth movement. Those Zionists were a minority amongst Jews and Zionism itself was alien to most Jews in Palestine.

Most Jews already living in Palestine before the Holocaust were uninterested in Zionism, the creation of a Jewish state for Jewish people and a fanatical entitlement to seize other people's land.

Many Orthodox today are descendants of Orthodox who came from a pre-Zionist Palestine, a pre-Israel Palestine and fondly recall being apolitical and being free to live that way as they had even under the Ottomans for many centuries.

Today the Orthodox say this "We are Israelites, we are not Israelis".

 

[rampart]

The issue seems to be effecting Netanyahu’s coalition.

"they do not accept the rules and laws that come with secular society. do these guys follow levitical law? moses did have an army, didn't he?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The issue seems to be effecting Netanyahu’s coalition.

It looks like Netty is on his last legs. These people have deeply held veiws and should be listened to in their communities.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It looks like Netty is on his last legs. These people have deeply held veiws and should be listened to in their communities.

Always nice to encounter a fellow Welshman (well, based on your location anyway!).

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Always nice to encounter a fellow Welshman (well, based on your location anyway!).

We are a civilising influence on maga here. Wrexham me You ?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

We are a civilising influence on maga here. Wrexham me You ?

Born in Liverpool but my father was Welsh (but he left before my birth) and my maternal grandmother was Welsh (Iris Phelps) from South Wales. I love the place, magical, truly picture book fairy tale country.

MAGA need civilizing, absolutely astonishing how that ideology has taken a grip on so many minds.

 

[rylah]

This is proof positive to any remaining doubters, Israel today is antisemitic. In fact though the fake state of "Israel" has always been antisemitic because militant Zionism that began to really take root in Palestine in the 1920s, was always concerned far more about nationalism than living peacefully in Palestine.

At that time Zionist (and sometimes terrorist) cells were operating throughout Palestine and mirrored the Nazis in their insidious manipulation of Jews with ideological "schools" akin to the Hitler Youth movement. Those Zionists were a minority amongst Jews and Zionism itself was alien to most Jews in Palestine.

Most Jews already living in Palestine before the Holocaust were uninterested in Zionism, the creation of a Jewish state for Jewish people and a fanatical entitlement to seize other people's land.

Many Orthodox today are descendants of Orthodox who came from a pre-Zionist Palestine, a pre-Israel Palestine and fondly recall being apolitical and being free to live that way as they had even under the Ottomans for many centuries.

Today the Orthodox say this "We are Israelites, we are not Israelis".

So, one minute these Orthodox Jews are your go-to critics of Israel, and the next, they're 'fake Jews'? Which is it? Then you deny any link between Zionism and Judaism, yet can't stop talking about it?

Twisting any minority opinion among Jews to label the majority as antisemites is as twisted as pretending the Nazis just wanted 'reeducation.' Instead of addressing real issues, your rhetoric distracts from the actual perpetuators of violence against Jews, regardless if they're Orthodox or not, Zionist or not, in Israel or abroad - Hamas mobs don't make such distinctions when attacking random people in the streets.

Ignoring Arab antisemitism while blaming Zionism for violence is historical revisionism at its worst. Orthodox Jews have always been a part of Israel's story, from building cities to serving in the military. Most Hassidim arrived with Zionist immigration and aren't even the old Yishuv. And remember the Ottoman ban on Hassidic Jews in Jerusalem? Zionism ended that.

Focusing on anti-Zionism among a minority of Jews only highlights the broader Zionism, not just among Jews, but also among other indigenous minorities in the Middle East, and even among Arabs and Muslims themselves, seeking alternatives to Arab imperialism.

So what is it, pretend the Orthodox IDF units in Gaza
don't serve jihadis directly to Shaitan's harem,
or sanction them trying to save Hamas?

​

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

So, one minute these Orthodox Jews are your go-to critics of Israel, and the next, they're 'fake Jews'? Which is it? Then you deny any link between Zionism and Judaism, yet can't stop talking about it?

You seem confused, I've submitted no posts that claim Orthodox Jews are fake.

Twisting any minority opinion among Jews to label the majority as antisemites is as twisted as pretending the Nazis just wanted 'reeducation.' Instead of addressing real issues, your rhetoric distracts from the actual perpetuators of violence against Jews, regardless if they're Orthodox or not, Zionist or not, in Israel or abroad - Hamas mobs don't make such distinctions when attacking random people in the streets.

I'd say most of the non-Orthodox Jews are antisemitic, some 70% of Israelis support the Haredi being drafted into the Israeli military, that's antisemitic, these are Jews being persecuted by the state, they hold no hatred toward Palestinians and have no desire to hurt them, forcing Jews to take part in violence, against their most deeply held convictions would be openly declared as antisemitic if it were being done to them by non-Jews.

As for the Nazis, Netanyahu is on record claiming they had no desire to kill Jews, when Israeli leadership mutates Zionism to the extent it rewrites history and blames the Arabs for what the Nazis did, then I think we can admit that something is very wrong with Israeli politics.

Ignoring Arab antisemitism while blaming Zionism for violence is historical revisionism at its worst. Orthodox Jews have always been a part of Israel's story, from building cities to serving in the military. Most Hassidim arrived with Zionist immigration and aren't even the old Yishuv. And remember the Ottoman ban on Hassidic Jews in Jerusalem? Zionism ended that.

To call out Israeli antisemitism is not to ignore other sources of antisemitism. The antisemitism against Haredi Jews originates from within the state of Israel, the largely secular and repressive state.

Focusing on anti-Zionism among a minority of Jews only highlights the broader Zionism, not just among Jews, but also among other indigenous minorities in the Middle East, and even among Arabs and Muslims themselves, seeking alternatives to Arab imperialism.

Zionists have weaponized antisemitism (and the holocaust) and it plays a key part in the Zionist lobby around the world. But if we're going to talk about antisemitism, listen to Zionists lecture us about it, I think it's relevant to that conversation to point out the innate antisemitism within Zionism itself.

Look at early militant Zionism in the Levant during the 20s and 30s, it targeted non-Zionist Jews, intimidated them, persecuted them (making it difficult to get employment, making it difficult to buy land and so on) and sometimes violently, this is a matter of record, easily researched, I can provide sources for this if you'd like.

As for Arab imperialism I see no trace of this, are you referring to some historical event? Describing Arabs as imperialist for seeking self determination in a region they've lived in for centuries seems like an oxymoron.

The Zionists however are colonizers, an ideology alien to the Levant, imported from Europe, from socialist minded Jews and then mutated into fanatical nationalism with an inherently racist ideology.

Huge numbers of unassimilated foreign Jews (with an attraction to European nationalist ideas) migrating in, that's the threat, that destabilized the society, not the Arabs.

So what is it, pretend the Orthodox IDF units in Gaza don't serve jihadis directly to Shaitan's harem, or sanction them trying to save Hamas?

I have no idea what you're actually asking me here.