If A Terrorist Group of Mexicans

[MHunterB]

Aristotle, your reply seems very confused to me. I haven't got the patience just now to tease it all apart and try explaining over again.

I understand that you have strong feelings against 'right winger religious extremists' - what you don' seem to realize is that I AGREE with you about those individuals.

You seem unaware that 'questioning the Holocaust' is a crime in Canada, Germany, and quite a few nations but NOT! in the US. Of course it isn't 'questioning' anyway: it's denying the very well-documented fact that the Nazis deliberately initiated and pursued a policy of genocide and mass murders against many groups wherever they ruled. 'Investigating' is all very well and good - but the 'historical investigations' of such as Irving and Zundel are about as scientific and as intellectually honest as 'creation science *ministries*' efforts.

And the end goal of such 'questioning' has been - in every single iteration I've seen in the past 50 years! - to seek to exonerate the Nazi party and its philosophy from the many crimes it committed. 'Questioning the Holocaust' = 'Nazi Apologtics'.

And the US does tolerate such shameful and debased speech, yes. However, while anyone can say just about anything - there can be no law requiring others to not be disgusted by such speech.

 

[MHunterB]

So what are you trying to tell us, Aristotle - that you think if a person 'believes' something which is factually demonstrably false, we should just ignore that in how we assess their ability to make rational decisions?

I think that's possible up to a point - but if that person presumes to claim they're a 'historian' and write books promoting that false scenario, we have an obligation to avoid using such books as text books, don't we?

 

[Jroc]

That's bullshit!

Us bombing the shit out of their neighborhoods, brings out more hatred than any religious teachings.

THEY DON'T CARE!!!!

You think the Arabs care about the Palestinians?! you must be joking! the only thing the outside Arab world has in common with the Palestinians is their hatred of the Yahud!

For crying out loud, the Iranians and Palestinians are sunni-shia! those loonies hate each other with passion! but when fighting the Jews there is no conflict suddenly, eh??

over 42,000 people have died in Syria! you see people care? Muslims are being killed in the Burma, you see people care??

The only reason why the Israeli-Palestinian fonclict has such awareness in the Arab world is because there are Jews involved! "And they hide behind stones and trees, and the stones and trees will call- A Jew is behind me! come and kill him!"

If it wasn't Islam against Jews, they would not have cared!

again, this isn't the israel/pal section where debate consists of "yes it is"// "no it isn't".

i'm looking for real answers about why there is a difference in the standard by which israel is judged as opposed to other countries that defend their borders.

because, ultimately, notwithstanding the whining and whinging and misrepresentations of terrorist supporters. israel exists. it has every right to exist. and has the right to secure borders where missiles aren't aimed at it's civilian populations.

and if you can't get to those very simple conclusions, then you should examine your reasons for the disparity in your treatment of the only jewish country in the world.

(this isn't directed at you, lipush, but at the terrorist supporters who thought it was a good idea to interject their propaganda into this thread instead of making an effort at honest analysis).

So Lipush's answer is not an answer to your question? General dislike and in many cases hatred of Jews is not an answer to your question?

 

[sealadaigh]

PS: Aristotle, if one intends to convey "Israelis", one had better say "Israelis" - and better still the government or administration or parties involved.

When anyone criticizes presumed policies of "Israel" and then refers to 'the Jews', that sets up an unfortunate association which is extremely difficult to ignore. It's like a huge buzzing static behind all the words.

I'd also like to know if you place priority on someone being 'American' per se, or is it upon their specific personal philosophy and beliefs?

Incidentally, Corrie wasn't 'protesting the settlements' - and have you ever read the Israeli courts' findings on the case?

the same can be said, but very much more so, for those on the other side of the fence whenh palestinians are referred to as arabs, muslims, and etc, mags.

aristotle's comment was innocuous compared to the plethora of similar gaffs madr by zionists about palestinians, yet you never seem to comment on those, at least as far as i have seen.

why is that?

 

[Londoner]

A very interesting shift in our attitude toward Israel and Jews seems to have taken place after WWII. Prior to WWII anti-semitism was extremely common, especially on the Right which is heavily Christian. If you research the longstanding anti-semitism in Europe - we're talking centuries - than you should be able to understand why it was so widespread, and adopted by otherwise rational people.

Henry Ford and Interwar Anti-semitism in the USA
A great way to trace the evolution of anti-semitism in the USA is to look at the Republican Party, starting with Henry Ford during the interwar period. Read his famous book "The International Jew" and you will see the attitude which was widespread on the Right. (Again: this should not be hard to understand, especially if you research the longstanding conflict between Christians and Jews in Europe).

The postwar shift
After WWII, Israel became an absolutely vital asset to America's burgeoning role as a global superpower. Given its energy resources, the Middle East is indisputably the world's most important region. No other event could sink the global and/or American economy quicker than instability in the Middle East.

So, in many way Israel became a satellite of the U.S. out of necessity. You can see this not only in the tremendous financial and military support, but also in the behavior of the U.S. surrounding any attempt to go back to the pre-67 borders. Indeed, any attempt to create a peaceful end to the conflict has been blocked. A peaceful resolution to this conflict would reduce the need for US involvement going forward. Therefore, from a geopolitical standpoint, it is not in the interest of the US to allow a peaceful resolution. (This is where Carter and Reagan split. Carter wanted a peaceful resolution followed by the US shedding its Middle East assets and withdrawing from the region - in concert with a "moonshot" around energy independence. Reagan, who had a petroleum forward energy policy, did not want a resolution to the conflict. He wanted the instability as a context for US involvement in the region. This was also his strategy during the Cold War. The conflict with the Soviets was vital to US intervention in the 3rd world, which was a gold mine of natural resources and cheap labor, both of which are necessary for capital investment. When he started to partner with Gorby to unwind the conflict, the neocons went crazy . . . until they replaced the Cold War with the War on Terrorism as the context for US intervention. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fundamental to the War on Terror, and the US can't dismantle it anymore than it could dismantle the Cold War).

As the USA started to heavily influence Israeli politics - and as some prominent American Jews began to enter Defense agencies ("neocons"), there was an attitude-shift in the GOP. Anti-semitism got slowly pushed into the "back rooms". Today we see only a small clusters of Anti-semitism on the Right, like Holocaust Deniers and Neo-Nazi groups. In the front of the house, however, the GOP has a very strict ideology of promoting Israel. You see narratives of good versus evil papering over something very complex and messy. The USA has a very complex history of Anti-semitism. Most people don't realize that Jews were not allowed into many country clubs - and they don't know when this started to change and why. It's almost impossible to respond to this thread without sorting through some history and trying to pinpoint when it became impossible to criticize Israel and why.

I personally side with the Jewish and Palestinian people over their leaders. The State of Israel, like Hussein when he was backed by Reagan and initially GHWB, gets away with a lot of terror. This has pushed Palestine to the Right, giving homegrown terror networks like Hamas more power. The result is that the radical parts of both sides are in power, which prolongs the conflict and makes it hard to untangle the mess. Gaza, however, seems pretty clear. The US should allow Israel to go back to the pre-67 borders (but a US leader would have a harder time accomplishing this than Kennedy had ending Vietnam and dismantling the CIA). Anyway, I see the OP's point. It's very hard to defend Israel in this.

The average American voter looks at something like the Iranian Revolution (and Ayatollah Khomeini) with disgust. This disgust is uneducated. The reason Iran moved so radically Right into homegrown terror networks was because the US and Britain replaced the democratically elected and wildly popular Mosaddeq with the brutal Hussein-like Shaw. This was done because Mosaddeq would not "play ball" with western energy needs, preferring instead to control his own resources in the same way an Iowa farmer controls his corn. So, of course, when a superpower tinkers with the destiny of region, there are going to be many unintended consequences.

The US might have been acting with good intentions when it supported regime change in Iran (and a host of other Middle Eastern nations). But "good intentions" and Big Government don't always create the best outcome.

To my friends out there in message board land.

Here is a study from the Right-leaning Cato Institute. Read me.

Here is a great course by the Teaching Company, also slightly Right-leaning. Go here.

If you study this stuff, you'll be less inclined to depend on simplistic bumper stickers. You might discover better arguments for the conclusions you've been fed, or you might have to entertain some messy complexities. Either way, it's probably worth getting a little more detail.

 

[Billo_Really]

i'm looking for real answers about why there is a difference in the standard by which israel is judged as opposed to other countries that defend their borders.

There's no difference in the standard, Israel has violated IHL over 200 times. As far as defending its borders, other country's don't occupy land that isn't there's. Other country's don't have over 700 roadblocks and checkpoints in someone else's country restricting the movement of their citizens. Other country's don't have an economic blockade on a population of 1.5 million people, preventing them from exporting products to the world market. Other country's don't rountinely conduct air strikes, extrajudicial assasinations and shoot at the fisherman across their borders.

 

[Billo_Really]

this idea that terrorists won't be terrorists if you're nice to them is pathetic.

Treating all of them, like they're terrorists, is pathetic.

What does shooting at their fisherman and farmers have to do with terrorism or Israeli security?

and they should stop sending missiles into israel and focus on actually pretending they're ready to govern themselves.

The problem is, Israel doesn't like the government they elected and keeps shooting them. So how can you govern yourselves, when your neighbor keeps killing your elected leaders?

 

[MHunterB]

Gee, for someone who cares so incredibly much how other people refer to third parties - the poster above a3:38 PM is the one and only poster who can't seem to get my nic right after I've had to ask no less than three times.

I'm beginning to feel that it's due to passive-aggressive issues rather than being slow or having a poor memory.......

 

[MHunterB]

Londoner, has it occurred to you that Professor Salim Yakub might possibly have some tiny bit of prejudice regarding the topic of US ME policy? Having familiarized myself somewhat with his body of work, I don't think objectivity is his longest suit......

 

[Londoner]

Londoner, has it occurred to you that Professor Salim Yakub might possibly have some tiny bit of prejudice regarding the topic of US ME policy? Having familiarized myself somewhat with his body of work, I don't think objectivity is his longest suit......

He is a very popular professor at UCSB, and most of his stuff is insanely dry.

I have no doubt that you can find pieces of his scholarship that are open to debate - and I have no doubt that he has some predispositions lurking beneath the facts he chooses to emphasize - but the scholarship I referenced was unsatisfying to me precisely because I felt like he went out of his way not to adopt a negative stance toward US Involvement in the region. (Perhaps he is more 'opinionated' in his other work)

In this particular treatment of the Middle East, he is more supportive of Reagan than Carter (for instance). He also lobs praise on Eisenhower for effectively containing Arab Nationalism. He treats Kissinger slightly less favorably - almost praising him for driving a wedge between Egypt and the Soviets, but also noting that this made Arab/US relations more embittered and complex. He's also a member of the Woodrow Wilson Center which is far more centrist than say the AEI on the Right or Brookings on the Left. I tend to follow a lot of the CATO thinkers as well, which is largely hostile to the Left on economic issues.

 

[sealadaigh]

Gee, for someone who cares so incredibly much how other people refer to third parties - the poster above a3:38 PM is the one and only poster who can't seem to get my nic right after I've had to ask no less than three times.

I'm beginning to feel that it's due to passive-aggressive issues rather than being slow or having a poor memory.......

not at all, maggie. i'm irish and our only margs are beef to the heels aunts who smoke too much, drink like fish, and head down to the parish school's cafeteria after evening mass on first fridays to play bingo.

you are way too hot for that...you sizzle, mamacita...YEEEEOW!!!!

our "maggies" are sweet but hot tempered. they have a certain je ne sais quoi...they know things...like they know the boyos like girls in stockings and garter belts for the facility and their teasing blush for the innocence.

try to think of it like the word "goy" or "goyim". now i know you don't use it, but you stick up for those who do and defend its usage, even though i, and most of the gentiles, object.

but OK...if it is "marg" ye want, it is "marg" ye shall get, but i will never think of you the same again.

 

[Aristotle]

Aristotle, your reply seems very confused to me. I haven't got the patience just now to tease it all apart and try explaining over again.

I understand that you have strong feelings against 'right winger religious extremists' - what you don' seem to realize is that I AGREE with you about those individuals.

You seem unaware that 'questioning the Holocaust' is a crime in Canada, Germany, and quite a few nations but NOT! in the US. Of course it isn't 'questioning' anyway: it's denying the very well-documented fact that the Nazis deliberately initiated and pursued a policy of genocide and mass murders against many groups wherever they ruled. 'Investigating' is all very well and good - but the 'historical investigations' of such as Irving and Zundel are about as scientific and as intellectually honest as 'creation science *ministries*' efforts.

And the end goal of such 'questioning' has been - in every single iteration I've seen in the past 50 years! - to seek to exonerate the Nazi party and its philosophy from the many crimes it committed. 'Questioning the Holocaust' = 'Nazi Apologtics'.

And the US does tolerate such shameful and debased speech, yes. However, while anyone can say just about anything - there can be no law requiring others to not be disgusted by such speech.

Let me be clear in fact, let me write it in caps so you understand:

AMERICA SHOULD NOT INTERFERE WITH ISRAEL.

ISRAEL IS ON ITS OWN IN MY VIEW IF THEY (ISRAELIS) BELIEVE ISRAEL IS INDESTRUCTIBLE. ISRAEL IS A HATED COUNTRY

 

[Lipush]

Actually save those remarks to the Palestinians. Israel is no different than Hamas in fact, Israel is worse than Hamas. I have never been to Israel but have seen pictures from college buddies and all I can say is Israel looks a lot nicer than Palestine the place looks like a freggin slum. Those people live in worse conditions.

No wonder Israeli soldiers wear their M16 everywhere they go....

The Likud Party in my opinion doesn't want peace. The people who are vocal are hateful Israelis who want to maintain victimhood who shooting down palestinians and my countrymen.

My hatred for Israel is at the level of Palestinians but if I was a poor palestinian who lost a mother to a rocket intended for a Hamas figure and my family receive no recompensation for this "collateral damage" as the Israelies say, believe me I would join Hamas as well and do what I can to exterminate as many "Yahudis" as I could.


When will the Jews say ENOUGH to bloodshed? You act like the entire Palestinian people are terrorist. No, they are angry and full of rage and are likely to be recruited by terrorist organizations because these organizations can find a surplus of expendable soldiers.

You say you have never been in Israel. your knowledge comes from what...books? pictures? that's what you say.

So basically, you know jack.

Good to know we're getting somewhere.

Those people live in worse conditions. And why is that,? Doesn't your government give the Palestinians TONS of money? Where does that money go to?

You say Likud doesn't want peace.

Ok.

Peace is just a second to life. If we can make peace, sure why not. But let us not worship peace in a manner that we bury our families in its sake.

Your hatred of Israel comes from IGNORANCE, my friend. you say yourself your source of knowledge is very narrow.

You say if you would have been a palestinian who lost a loved one you would have joined the hate cyrcle.

So tell me, out of your deep "understanding", what is Tamar Fogel supposed to feel? What is Nahlah Pass supposed to feel? Are only the "Palestinians" with the right to feel rage, or anger?

Doesn't Osher Twitto have the right to feel revenge? Don't the children of the Haimof family? The schevischorder brothers?

Your critisicsm if anything, should be directed at both Israel and "Palestine" because we both screwed up since the beginning of the conflict.

You can also ask the Hamas or Hezbollah, if they aren't yet tired of bloodshed. Why is your hate onlytargeted toward Israel is beyond me.

It is about time that both Palestinians and Israelis decide we're all fed up with the current situation

Let's discuss where my knowledge of Israel comes from....

Since I was a philosophy major I studied extensive readings on Moses Maimonides and "Mish'nah Torah" along with his book "The Guide for the Perplexed"

My political knowlefge comes from following the Mid East crisis since the Clinton Administration. Aside from that I have several friends from Israel who I have befriended. I know one personally who was heavily into Hamas philosophy until he came to school out here. Giving Israel the benefit of doubt I decided one day to venture to a Sheol and see what is Judaism and Israel about (I find Israel walks hand in hand with Judaism) I was turned away both times. I was once told by a Rabbi that its prohibited for me to learn Jewish teachings.


So if a little ole guy like me is turned away because I cannot satisfy my curiousity to learn I can imagine what my Arab friends felt as they shared stories of their loved ones being killed and being discriminated against for being Arab.

Lemme see, hmm I know we give Israel tens of million (if not hundreds) of dollars, majority of it is military based. The aid we give to Palestine is not nearly enough.

What else do I know about Israel? I know its a racist state that is in love with its own victimhood. If I could I'd spit on the wailing wall.

So basically you know jack.

You thought that Israel is all about religion, was turned down by a Rabbi which told you that since you're no Jew there is no reason whatsoever to study Judaism, and based your thinking of listening to the Arab side only.

Yes, as I said before, your opinion is based on ignorance.

You know NOTHING.

 

[Lipush]

I can't. I lost all respect for this Israel's right to defend itself when an American protester was ran over by a bulldozer and Israel did freggin nothing. Actually my hatred was compounded after that. When I read independent news and see Palestinian kids being pulled out of rubble and considered "collateral damage" it sickens me.

All this talk about the Holy Land and God and yet Israel has no problen killing children.

Af for an American who has no connection to either side, you're terribly one sided.

Again I was neutral until I had unfortunate collective experiences that shifted my opinion. Look at your freggin signature your one to talk. Palestinians were in that land longer than the Jewish. exodus prior to the 1900's and you say Arabs occupied your land?

Collective experience? Because a Rabbi gave you the brush off? It sounds completely childish.

It's like saying all Gentiles are evil bcause one shaved-head looked at my funny 10 years ago.

You gotta be joking.

 

[Lipush]

I can't. I lost all respect for this Israel's right to defend itself when an American protester was ran over by a bulldozer and Israel did freggin nothing. Actually my hatred was compounded after that. When I read independent news and see Palestinian kids being pulled out of rubble and considered "collateral damage" it sickens me.

All this talk about the Holy Land and God and yet Israel has no problen killing children.

Af for an American who has no connection to either side, you're terribly one sided.

Again I was neutral until I had unfortunate collective experiences that shifted my opinion. Look at your freggin signature your one to talk. Palestinians were in that land longer than the Jewish. exodus prior to the 1900's and you say Arabs occupied your land?

I will tell you the same story I told others. My family lived in Israel since the end of the 1800's, when the word "Palestinian" was not an issue, those were the Jews and Arabs of the land called "the territory of Falestina".

They had a ranch, they had orphan Arab teens which used to work there. My family gave them food, warm beds, work, security. But when the Arab carnage began in 1929, the same kids my family sheltered, brought their Hooligans of people, burned down the ranch, stole property, and my family was forced to leave.

They ended up occupying OUR LAND, not the other way around. No one can repair the injustice which was made to us.

We want what we had. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[MikeK]

Aristotle, your reply seems very confused to me. I haven't got the patience just now to tease it all apart and try explaining over again.

Either you have a response to Aristotle's comments or you don't. You have enough time for the following constructions, so this redundancy is pointless.

You seem unaware that 'questioning the Holocaust' is a crime in Canada, Germany, and quite a few nations but NOT! in the US.

Actually very few Americans are aware of that specific speech constraint in Canada and Germany, as well as France, Australia, Austria, Hungary, Luxembourg, et. al., and more nations are gradually added as the Holocaust propaganda machinery moves methodically forward. And I consider this blatant assault on the exercise of free speech to be a goddam shame.

For a nation to forbid its citizens to publicly question something is not only fascistic in the extreme, it is an insult to the human brain. It is equal to denying the right to question the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. And were it not for our beloved First Amendment I have no doubt that questioning so-called Holocaust assertions would be a Class A felony here in the U.S.

Do I deny that large numbers of Jews, along with other categories, were subjected to a brutally murderous pogrom by the Third Reich? No. I do not. There is ample evidence to support that crime against humanity. But if I didn't believe it why should I not have the right to express my disbelief? Such a proscription is something one might expect to exist in a place like Hitler Germany.

Of course it isn't 'questioning' anyway: it's denying the very well-documented fact that the Nazis deliberately initiated and pursued a policy of genocide and mass murders against many groups wherever they ruled. 'Investigating' is all very well and good - but the 'historical investigations' of such as Irving and Zundel are about as scientific and as intellectually honest as 'creation science *ministries*' efforts.

Holocaust denial is to say the Pogrom didn't happen, which is fanatical nonsense. But all criticism of and inquiry into the most typical presentations of Holocaust legend is not necessarily Holocaust denial. There are those who do not deny the Pogrom took place but who question the accuracy and integrity of certain claims associated with that event. And while Holocaust publicists will refer to any question directed at typical reports on and descriptions of the Pogrom as "Holocaust denial" the fact is some questions have a legitimate basis and are more appropriately refered to as revision rather than "denial."

One such example is the widely circulated report of Jewish corpses being rendered in Nazi concentration camps to make soap. I recall hearing this repulsive legend many times beginning when I was a schoolboy and how it, along with other reports, caused me to feel uneasy about my paternal German lineage. But the infamous tale has been credibly debunked, as reported by the staff of the Illinoil Holocaust Museum. Illinois Holocaust Museum & Education Center

The legend is thus revised. And the point to be considered is if this long-held belief has turned out to be fabricated how much more of the legend is equally false? Without questions we will never know. Revision is not denial.

And the end goal of such 'questioning' has been - in every single iteration I've seen in the past 50 years! - to seek to exonerate the Nazi party and its philosophy from the many crimes it committed. 'Questioning the Holocaust' = 'Nazi Apologtics'.

While that might be true in some examples it certainly is not true in any example where the research is preceded by commentary which clearly establishes that a pogrom took place.

 

[Two Thumbs]

If we would just stop fucking with them, they wouldn't want to fly planes into our buildings.

Sure they would. They want Islam to take over the world. In order to do that, they either have to convert or kill the rest of us.

Yes but its also hypocritical to forget that Christians want everyone to come to Christ.

Why do you think they have organizations like "The Red Cross" missionaries, etc..

There's a VAST difference between;
Convert or I'll kill you
and
Would you like to convert?

It's not hypocritical to know the difference

 

[Againsheila]

Aristotle, your reply seems very confused to me. I haven't got the patience just now to tease it all apart and try explaining over again.

I understand that you have strong feelings against 'right winger religious extremists' - what you don' seem to realize is that I AGREE with you about those individuals.

You seem unaware that 'questioning the Holocaust' is a crime in Canada, Germany, and quite a few nations but NOT! in the US. Of course it isn't 'questioning' anyway: it's denying the very well-documented fact that the Nazis deliberately initiated and pursued a policy of genocide and mass murders against many groups wherever they ruled. 'Investigating' is all very well and good - but the 'historical investigations' of such as Irving and Zundel are about as scientific and as intellectually honest as 'creation science *ministries*' efforts.

And the end goal of such 'questioning' has been - in every single iteration I've seen in the past 50 years! - to seek to exonerate the Nazi party and its philosophy from the many crimes it committed. 'Questioning the Holocaust' = 'Nazi Apologtics'.

And the US does tolerate such shameful and debased speech, yes. However, while anyone can say just about anything - there can be no law requiring others to not be disgusted by such speech.

Let me be clear in fact, let me write it in caps so you understand:

AMERICA SHOULD NOT INTERFERE WITH ISRAEL.

ISRAEL IS ON ITS OWN IN MY VIEW IF THEY (ISRAELIS) BELIEVE ISRAEL IS INDESTRUCTIBLE. ISRAEL IS A HATED COUNTRY

Yeah, Israel, a Jewish country is hated by every other country in the middle east (Muslim countries), in fact, no other Arab country even has Israel on the map. Without the help of the USA, Israel would cease to exist. I'm sure that's your goal, though I don't know why.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Aristotle, your reply seems very confused to me. I haven't got the patience just now to tease it all apart and try explaining over again.

I understand that you have strong feelings against 'right winger religious extremists' - what you don' seem to realize is that I AGREE with you about those individuals.

You seem unaware that 'questioning the Holocaust' is a crime in Canada, Germany, and quite a few nations but NOT! in the US. Of course it isn't 'questioning' anyway: it's denying the very well-documented fact that the Nazis deliberately initiated and pursued a policy of genocide and mass murders against many groups wherever they ruled. 'Investigating' is all very well and good - but the 'historical investigations' of such as Irving and Zundel are about as scientific and as intellectually honest as 'creation science *ministries*' efforts.

And the end goal of such 'questioning' has been - in every single iteration I've seen in the past 50 years! - to seek to exonerate the Nazi party and its philosophy from the many crimes it committed. 'Questioning the Holocaust' = 'Nazi Apologtics'.

And the US does tolerate such shameful and debased speech, yes. However, while anyone can say just about anything - there can be no law requiring others to not be disgusted by such speech.

Let me be clear in fact, let me write it in caps so you understand:

AMERICA SHOULD NOT INTERFERE WITH ISRAEL.

ISRAEL IS ON ITS OWN IN MY VIEW IF THEY (ISRAELIS) BELIEVE ISRAEL IS INDESTRUCTIBLE. ISRAEL IS A HATED COUNTRY

Yeah, Israel, a Jewish country is hated by every other country in the middle east (Muslim countries), in fact, no other Arab country even has Israel on the map. Without the help of the USA, Israel would cease to exist. I'm sure that's your goal, though I don't know why.

no other Arab country even has Israel on the map.

Maps are drawings of borders. Israel doesn't have any borders.

 

[Aristotle]

You say you have never been in Israel. your knowledge comes from what...books? pictures? that's what you say.

So basically, you know jack.

Good to know we're getting somewhere.

Those people live in worse conditions. And why is that,? Doesn't your government give the Palestinians TONS of money? Where does that money go to?

You say Likud doesn't want peace.

Ok.

Peace is just a second to life. If we can make peace, sure why not. But let us not worship peace in a manner that we bury our families in its sake.

Your hatred of Israel comes from IGNORANCE, my friend. you say yourself your source of knowledge is very narrow.

You say if you would have been a palestinian who lost a loved one you would have joined the hate cyrcle.

So tell me, out of your deep "understanding", what is Tamar Fogel supposed to feel? What is Nahlah Pass supposed to feel? Are only the "Palestinians" with the right to feel rage, or anger?

Doesn't Osher Twitto have the right to feel revenge? Don't the children of the Haimof family? The schevischorder brothers?

Your critisicsm if anything, should be directed at both Israel and "Palestine" because we both screwed up since the beginning of the conflict.

You can also ask the Hamas or Hezbollah, if they aren't yet tired of bloodshed. Why is your hate onlytargeted toward Israel is beyond me.

It is about time that both Palestinians and Israelis decide we're all fed up with the current situation

Let's discuss where my knowledge of Israel comes from....

Since I was a philosophy major I studied extensive readings on Moses Maimonides and "Mish'nah Torah" along with his book "The Guide for the Perplexed"

My political knowlefge comes from following the Mid East crisis since the Clinton Administration. Aside from that I have several friends from Israel who I have befriended. I know one personally who was heavily into Hamas philosophy until he came to school out here. Giving Israel the benefit of doubt I decided one day to venture to a Sheol and see what is Judaism and Israel about (I find Israel walks hand in hand with Judaism) I was turned away both times. I was once told by a Rabbi that its prohibited for me to learn Jewish teachings.


So if a little ole guy like me is turned away because I cannot satisfy my curiousity to learn I can imagine what my Arab friends felt as they shared stories of their loved ones being killed and being discriminated against for being Arab.

Lemme see, hmm I know we give Israel tens of million (if not hundreds) of dollars, majority of it is military based. The aid we give to Palestine is not nearly enough.

What else do I know about Israel? I know its a racist state that is in love with its own victimhood. If I could I'd spit on the wailing wall.

So basically you know jack.

You thought that Israel is all about religion, was turned down by a Rabbi which told you that since you're no Jew there is no reason whatsoever to study Judaism, and based your thinking of listening to the Arab side only.

Yes, as I said before, your opinion is based on ignorance.

You know NOTHING.

Ah yes seeing what you only want to see, such a typical trait that exist in Israel. My opinion is based on a collective experience. I have personal friends who've shared stories of living in Israel. I have seen Jews have this entitlement attitude. I have also read reafings of Jews who feel that Israel does not need America. I have had the unfortunate Rabbi experience and many more.

The only reason why Israel exist is because of the United States. Without U.S intercession, Israel would be at war with not just the Arab countries but also countries the covertly support Arab countries. Israel is not a liked country why don't you understand that? It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is I hate the country.