If A Terrorist Group of Mexicans

[P F Tinmore]

"I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis"

So, what was the doctor's name?

Dr. Nasrallah

 

[Againsheila]

"I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis"

So, what was the doctor's name?

You know, I read about that incident and the time and it wasn't murder. She was standing in front of a bulldozer that couldn't see her. She should have moved out of the way. Have you ever been on a bulldozer? You can't see crap that's right in front of you. Since her parents sued, and lost, it's pretty clear it wasn't murder.

Here's a hint, if someone is gonna bulldoze you house, don't stand right in front of them, it's very dangerous.

 

[sealadaigh]

"I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis"

So, what was the doctor's name?

samir nasrallah had a doctorate in pharmacy, a wife, and three children.

what was the bulldozer operators name?

 

[sealadaigh]

Emily continued:

The most striking thing about these situations:
no matter WHICH side of the issue you sympathize with, BOTH sides see a double standard.
We just don't agree all who's been allowed to get away with more. But we both see biases in how these are viewed and judged, by people and by the media........

I think there are MORE than just 2 'sides' in many situations - though if you want to boil it down to someone being 'pro' or 'anti' you can do so. I just find doing that seems to force things towards the 'fringes', the extreme views - and those are generally the least efficient and satisfactory.

What Emily labels 'bias' is SOMETIMES nothing more than the inability of even careful humans to be totally and completely IMpartial. Very few of us know enough about anything beyond our immediate lives to be competent at IMpartial judgement. Very few of us have had any formal training either in logic or critical thinking - two tools which are indispensible for IMpartial decision making.

some people have an ability to be impartial, and particularly those who realise that a lack of impartiality does little to achieve solution.

sometime too, impartiality and truth dictates that there may not be a middle ground between the opposing sides, a point where the wrongs balance. a good example would be apartheid south africa.

i think emily comes very close to being impartial. at least she tries.

 

[sealadaigh]

"I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis"

So, what was the doctor's name?

You know, I read about that incident and the time and it wasn't murder. She was standing in front of a bulldozer that couldn't see her. She should have moved out of the way. Have you ever been on a bulldozer? You can't see crap that's right in front of you. Since her parents sued, and lost, it's pretty clear it wasn't murder.

Here's a hint, if someone is gonna bulldoze you house, don't stand right in front of them, it's very dangerous.

well, i agree a little and i disagree a little.

i like american justice and i think there is enough reasonable doubt to say the troopie did not deliberately run over rachel corrie. there was however an extraordinary amount of negligence with a complete disregard for her life...a negligence beyound human comprehension. the vision in those things is extraordinarily limited aand they require, and usually have, a spotter, or guide. she could have been removed from the viccinity, even arrested. there was absolutely no need for her to die.

here is a hint...don't destroy palestinian homes.

 

[sealadaigh]

"I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis"

So, what was the doctor's name?

Dr. Nasrallah

darn it, you beat me to it. lol.

thanks P F.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Emily continued:

The most striking thing about these situations:
no matter WHICH side of the issue you sympathize with, BOTH sides see a double standard.
We just don't agree all who's been allowed to get away with more. But we both see biases in how these are viewed and judged, by people and by the media........

I think there are MORE than just 2 'sides' in many situations - though if you want to boil it down to someone being 'pro' or 'anti' you can do so. I just find doing that seems to force things towards the 'fringes', the extreme views - and those are generally the least efficient and satisfactory.

What Emily labels 'bias' is SOMETIMES nothing more than the inability of even careful humans to be totally and completely IMpartial. Very few of us know enough about anything beyond our immediate lives to be competent at IMpartial judgement. Very few of us have had any formal training either in logic or critical thinking - two tools which are indispensible for IMpartial decision making.

some people have an ability to be impartial, and particularly those who realise that a lack of impartiality does little to achieve solution.

sometime too, impartiality and truth dictates that there may not be a middle ground between the opposing sides, a point where the wrongs balance. a good example would be apartheid south africa.

i think emily comes very close to being impartial. at least she tries.

"Really, if someone steals your car, what is there to negotiate? What would be a middle ground?

 

[MHunterB]

"Really, if someone steals your car, what is there to negotiate? What would be a middle ground? "

I find it quite disingenuous to suggest that the ME situation is anywhere near that simple.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Really, if someone steals your car, what is there to negotiate? What would be a middle ground? "

I find it quite disingenuous to suggest that the ME situation is anywhere near that simple.

But it is. Just enforce international law. Problem solved.

 

[Aristotle]

fired over 100 missiles into Texas and California, would there be any doubt that we'd retaliate and hard...and that no one would ever question our right to retaliate?

so...what is it that makes anyone question the obligation of the Israeli government to respond to hundreds of Hamas missiles?

Personally, I think when your people are forced to live in bomb shelters by terrorists, you have an obligation to do what you have to in order to protect your population.

Reminder that this is the Clean Debate Zone and was intentionally placed here so as not to be another ranting and insane israel/pal section thread.

First off this is a bad argument.

For one, Mexico and US are allies.

Two, our missile silos in Colorado and California would knock it down.



Three, Israel is a racist state. Sorry, I have Arab-Israeli friends that tell me otherwise.

Four, only thing about Israel I like is "Hatvikah" by John Williams.

 

[MikeK]

"I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis"

So, what was the doctor's name?

You know, I read about that incident and the time and it wasn't murder. She was standing in front of a bulldozer that couldn't see her. She should have moved out of the way. Have you ever been on a bulldozer? You can't see crap that's right in front of you. Since her parents sued, and lost, it's pretty clear it wasn't murder.

Here's a hint, if someone is gonna bulldoze you house, don't stand right in front of them, it's very dangerous.

My MOS in the Marine Corps was 1345, Engineer, Heavy Equipment Operator, Earth-moving Tractor (bulldozer). So the answer to your question is, yes. I have been on bulldozers, mainly an International Harvester TD18-A (armored), for four years (1956 - 1960).

So you are out of turn because you simply have no idea what you're talking about. There is no way the operator of that dozer could not have seen the girl in front of his blade. There is no question (in my expert opinion) that his action was deliberate. He chose to crush her, which is cold-blooded murder. If you ask any experienced bulldozer operator (American, not Israeli) you will get the same answer.

Rachel Corrie could have been forcibly removed from that site. The most that should have happened to her was a boot in the ass and deportation. She was an American citizen, a young girl, and she was murdered. And you approve of it -- which reveals your loyalties.

 

[MikeK]

Because there is nothing in the world more dangerous than someone who is ready and willing to die and is extremely pissed off.

are you a psychologist??? Who cares??? What not give us the solution rather than merely take the Palestinian side ????

The most intimidating thing about the 9/11 attack was not the actual devastation but the fact that nineteen healthy young men would so readily sacrifice their own lives to strike at us. This kind of suicidal vengeance is well beyond the ability of the average American mind to comprehend, mainly because we are not an oppressed people.

In spite of having advanced military capabilities, neither the Third Reich nor the Japanese Empire was able to effect a significant assault on our homeland. But those nineteen young Islamic shahids revealed a weapon which the Western mind simply isn't ready to deal with -- the willingness to die. If just nineteen men can inflict that level of damage upon us, imagine what nineteen thousand could do.

We don't need enemies like that.

 

[Billo_Really]

The most intimidating thing about the 9/11 attack was not the actual devastation but the fact that nineteen healthy young men would so readily sacrifice their own lives to strike at us. This kind of suicidal vengeance is well beyond the ability of the average American mind to comprehend, mainly because we are not an oppressed people.

In spite of having advanced military capabilities, neither the Third Reich nor the Japanese Empire was able to effect a significant assault on our homeland. But those nineteen young Islamic shahids revealed a weapon which the Western mind simply isn't ready to deal with -- the willingness to die. If just nineteen men can inflict that level of damage upon us, imagine what nineteen thousand could do.

We don't need enemies like that.

If we would just stop fucking with them, they wouldn't want to fly planes into our buildings.

 

[MikeK]

The most intimidating thing about the 9/11 attack was not the actual devastation but the fact that nineteen healthy young men would so readily sacrifice their own lives to strike at us. This kind of suicidal vengeance is well beyond the ability of the average American mind to comprehend, mainly because we are not an oppressed people.

In spite of having advanced military capabilities, neither the Third Reich nor the Japanese Empire was able to effect a significant assault on our homeland. But those nineteen young Islamic shahids revealed a weapon which the Western mind simply isn't ready to deal with -- the willingness to die. If just nineteen men can inflict that level of damage upon us, imagine what nineteen thousand could do.

We don't need enemies like that.

If we would just stop fucking with them, they wouldn't want to fly planes into our buildings.

Thank you.

 

[Againsheila]

The most intimidating thing about the 9/11 attack was not the actual devastation but the fact that nineteen healthy young men would so readily sacrifice their own lives to strike at us. This kind of suicidal vengeance is well beyond the ability of the average American mind to comprehend, mainly because we are not an oppressed people.

In spite of having advanced military capabilities, neither the Third Reich nor the Japanese Empire was able to effect a significant assault on our homeland. But those nineteen young Islamic shahids revealed a weapon which the Western mind simply isn't ready to deal with -- the willingness to die. If just nineteen men can inflict that level of damage upon us, imagine what nineteen thousand could do.

We don't need enemies like that.

If we would just stop fucking with them, they wouldn't want to fly planes into our buildings.

Sure they would. They want Islam to take over the world. In order to do that, they either have to convert or kill the rest of us.

 

[Billo_Really]

Sure they would. They want Islam to take over the world. In order to do that, they either have to convert or kill the rest of us.

Edited.

Us bombing the shit out of their neighborhoods, brings out more hatred than any religious teachings.

 

[Lipush]

This is the kind of thoughtlessly oppressive attitude that gives rise to suicidal terrorism.

Care to explain?

If an explanation is needed it's quite simple: When you make someone's life so miserable it's not worth living anymore the fear of death is diminished and is replaced by murderous rage.

Some years back I met a young Palestinian student while attending a credited lecture at Columbia. She was living here on a visa and she told us her family had for generations occupied a small date orchard for years on land which was being gradually expropriated by Israel: One day a car and a jeep pulled up to the house. There were three Israeli troopers in the jeep. One of the civilians from the car knocked on the door and told her mother their land belonged to him and they had two weeks to vacate.

She said there was nothing Semitic about the man. Rather he was clearly an Ashkenazi Jew, probably a migrant from the U.S., and that such expropriations were very common. She said if one asks these Israeli settlers how they came to own the land they tell you it was given to them by God. (A rather novel real estate concept.)

I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis. I imagine the same situation happening to me and I can readily understand the kind of boiling rage that drives these suicidal shahids.

You take away everything someone has to live for, including their self-worth, and you'd better watch out. Because there is nothing in the world more dangerous than someone who is ready and willing to die and is extremely pissed off.

Tell me then, if you don't mind, just how many Jews who survived the destruction camps, Jews that had nothing left but their cloths, at best, who lost dear ones, property, home, who were abused and humiliated, translated their anguish into what you call "rage" and began terrorizing German kids?

How many of them stabbed Christian babies in their sleep, called for an open war on Germany, said that their "rage" is boiling over to the point when they got nothing to lose?

0.

You know what they did? They were trying to re-create. to focus on what was LEFT. on LIFE.

And their situation was MUCH WORSE then the Palestinians.

Let us look at things from the other side of the coin for a minute. Gaza is currently under blockade. There is a reason for that. The blockade, since it's existence, tells us we need to care of them to the point where they can exist and not starve.

Tell me, why is there a need for Israel to give them things that will only HELP them fight against Israel?

Is there any other country on the face of the earth which FEEDS it's enemies?

Will you ever hear of an Al-Quaeda fighter being treated without strings in an American hospital? Do you know that at cases the same people who shoot rockets at Israelis, are treated inside Israeli hospitals?

Yes we need to take care of them, because of the blockade. That does not mean we need to load the same gun which will shoot us in the future. It's simply insane.

 

[jillian]

The most intimidating thing about the 9/11 attack was not the actual devastation but the fact that nineteen healthy young men would so readily sacrifice their own lives to strike at us. This kind of suicidal vengeance is well beyond the ability of the average American mind to comprehend, mainly because we are not an oppressed people.

In spite of having advanced military capabilities, neither the Third Reich nor the Japanese Empire was able to effect a significant assault on our homeland. But those nineteen young Islamic shahids revealed a weapon which the Western mind simply isn't ready to deal with -- the willingness to die. If just nineteen men can inflict that level of damage upon us, imagine what nineteen thousand could do.

We don't need enemies like that.

If we would just stop fucking with them, they wouldn't want to fly planes into our buildings.

and what did spain do to them?

this idea that terrorists won't be terrorists if you're nice to them is pathetic.

and they should stop sending missiles into israel and focus on actually pretending they're ready to govern themselves.

life is funny that way.

 

[Lipush]

Sure they would. They want Islam to take over the world. In order to do that, they either have to convert or kill the rest of us.

That's bullshit!

Us bombing the shit out of their neighborhoods, brings out more hatred than any religious teachings.

THEY DON'T CARE!!!!

You think the Arabs care about the Palestinians?! you must be joking! the only thing the outside Arab world has in common with the Palestinians is their hatred of the Yahud!

For crying out loud, the Iranians and Palestinians are sunni-shia! those loonies hate each other with passion! but when fighting the Jews there is no conflict suddenly, eh??

over 42,000 people have died in Syria! you see people care? Muslims are being killed in the Burma, you see people care??

The only reason why the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has such awareness in the Arab world is because there are Jews involved! "And they hide behind stones and trees, and the stones and trees will call- A Jew is behind me! come and kill him!"

If it wasn't Islam against Jews, they would not have cared!

 

[jillian]

Sure they would. They want Islam to take over the world. In order to do that, they either have to convert or kill the rest of us.

That's bullshit!

Us bombing the shit out of their neighborhoods, brings out more hatred than any religious teachings.

THEY DON'T CARE!!!!

You think the Arabs care about the Palestinians?! you must be joking! the only thing the outside Arab world has in common with the Palestinians is their hatred of the Yahud!

For crying out loud, the Iranians and Palestinians are sunni-shia! those loonies hate each other with passion! but when fighting the Jews there is no conflict suddenly, eh??

over 42,000 people have died in Syria! you see people care? Muslims are being killed in the Burma, you see people care??

The only reason why the Israeli-Palestinian fonclict has such awareness in the Arab world is because there are Jews involved! "And they hide behind stones and trees, and the stones and trees will call- A Jew is behind me! come and kill him!"

If it wasn't Islam against Jews, they would not have cared!

again, this isn't the israel/pal section where debate consists of "yes it is"// "no it isn't".

i'm looking for real answers about why there is a difference in the standard by which israel is judged as opposed to other countries that defend their borders.

because, ultimately, notwithstanding the whining and whinging and misrepresentations of terrorist supporters. israel exists. it has every right to exist. and has the right to secure borders where missiles aren't aimed at it's civilian populations.

and if you can't get to those very simple conclusions, then you should examine your reasons for the disparity in your treatment of the only jewish country in the world.

(this isn't directed at you, lipush, but at the terrorist supporters who thought it was a good idea to interject their propaganda into this thread instead of making an effort at honest analysis).