If A Terrorist Group of Mexicans

[Two Thumbs]

fired over 100 missiles into Texas and California, would there be any doubt that we'd retaliate and hard...and that no one would ever question our right to retaliate?

so...what is it that makes anyone question the obligation of the Israeli government to respond to hundreds of Hamas missiles?

Personally, I think when your people are forced to live in bomb shelters by terrorists, you have an obligation to do what you have to in order to protect your population.

Reminder that this is the Clean Debate Zone and was intentionally placed here so as not to be another ranting and insane israel/pal section thread.

Every country has every right to defend itself, to the bitter end if need be.

Ironically, jews find themselves to be the pinata at the party when it comes to defending muslims.

The irony?

I'll let yall work that out.

 

[Aristotle]

The most intimidating thing about the 9/11 attack was not the actual devastation but the fact that nineteen healthy young men would so readily sacrifice their own lives to strike at us. This kind of suicidal vengeance is well beyond the ability of the average American mind to comprehend, mainly because we are not an oppressed people.

In spite of having advanced military capabilities, neither the Third Reich nor the Japanese Empire was able to effect a significant assault on our homeland. But those nineteen young Islamic shahids revealed a weapon which the Western mind simply isn't ready to deal with -- the willingness to die. If just nineteen men can inflict that level of damage upon us, imagine what nineteen thousand could do.

We don't need enemies like that.

If we would just stop fucking with them, they wouldn't want to fly planes into our buildings.

Sure they would. They want Islam to take over the world. In order to do that, they either have to convert or kill the rest of us.

Yes but its also hypocritical to forget that Christians want everyone to come to Christ.

Why do you think they have organizations like "The Red Cross" missionaries, etc..

 

[Aristotle]

Care to explain?

If an explanation is needed it's quite simple: When you make someone's life so miserable it's not worth living anymore the fear of death is diminished and is replaced by murderous rage.

Some years back I met a young Palestinian student while attending a credited lecture at Columbia. She was living here on a visa and she told us her family had for generations occupied a small date orchard for years on land which was being gradually expropriated by Israel: One day a car and a jeep pulled up to the house. There were three Israeli troopers in the jeep. One of the civilians from the car knocked on the door and told her mother their land belonged to him and they had two weeks to vacate.

She said there was nothing Semitic about the man. Rather he was clearly an Ashkenazi Jew, probably a migrant from the U.S., and that such expropriations were very common. She said if one asks these Israeli settlers how they came to own the land they tell you it was given to them by God. (A rather novel real estate concept.)

I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis. I imagine the same situation happening to me and I can readily understand the kind of boiling rage that drives these suicidal shahids.

You take away everything someone has to live for, including their self-worth, and you'd better watch out. Because there is nothing in the world more dangerous than someone who is ready and willing to die and is extremely pissed off.

Tell me then, if you don't mind, just how many Jews who survived the destruction camps, Jews that had nothing left but their cloths, at best, who lost dear ones, property, home, who were abused and humiliated, translated their anguish into what you call "rage" and began terrorizing German kids?

How many of them stabbed Christian babies in their sleep, called for an open war on Germany, said that their "rage" is boiling over to the point when they got nothing to lose?

0.

You know what they did? They were trying to re-create. to focus on what was LEFT. on LIFE.

And their situation was MUCH WORSE then the Palestinians.

Let us look at things from the other side of the coin for a minute. Gaza is currently under blockade. There is a reason for that. The blockade, since it's existence, tells us we need to care of them to the point where they can exist and not starve.

Tell me, why is there a need for Israel to give them things that will only HELP them fight against Israel?

Is there any other country on the face of the earth which FEEDS it's enemies?

Will you ever hear of an Al-Quaeda fighter being treated without strings in an American hospital? Do you know that at cases the same people who shoot rockets at Israelis, are treated inside Israeli hospitals?

Yes we need to take care of them, because of the blockade. That does not mean we need to load the same gun which will shoot us in the future. It's simply insane.

I'm sorry but that sob story gets no sympathy for me.

I don't care what the Jewish creed is regarding the dust and rubble you call Israel. Jews have no right to march on any land and declare it theirs. As for you signature its insulting to the Arab families of Palestine who have inhabited Israel longer than Jewish migration back to your precious Israel.

I will tell you this...Without violating the terms here:

I hate what Israel stands for

I hate that when I protest against Israeli aggression I am somehow "Anti-Semitic"

I hate that you say "my pain is worse than the Palestinians"

I hate that my friends who are Israeli but of Arab descent complain of racism and are called "Arabush" by Jews in Israel.

I hate that my country (United States) supports you under this misguided notion that they are fulfilling some biblical prophecy.

I hate that you turn away when whole families are destroyed.

I hate that Israel did nothing when an American protester was ran over by a freggin bulldozer protesting the settlements.

I hate Israel all together

 

[Lipush]

If an explanation is needed it's quite simple: When you make someone's life so miserable it's not worth living anymore the fear of death is diminished and is replaced by murderous rage.

Some years back I met a young Palestinian student while attending a credited lecture at Columbia. She was living here on a visa and she told us her family had for generations occupied a small date orchard for years on land which was being gradually expropriated by Israel: One day a car and a jeep pulled up to the house. There were three Israeli troopers in the jeep. One of the civilians from the car knocked on the door and told her mother their land belonged to him and they had two weeks to vacate.

She said there was nothing Semitic about the man. Rather he was clearly an Ashkenazi Jew, probably a migrant from the U.S., and that such expropriations were very common. She said if one asks these Israeli settlers how they came to own the land they tell you it was given to them by God. (A rather novel real estate concept.)

I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis. I imagine the same situation happening to me and I can readily understand the kind of boiling rage that drives these suicidal shahids.

You take away everything someone has to live for, including their self-worth, and you'd better watch out. Because there is nothing in the world more dangerous than someone who is ready and willing to die and is extremely pissed off.

Tell me then, if you don't mind, just how many Jews who survived the destruction camps, Jews that had nothing left but their cloths, at best, who lost dear ones, property, home, who were abused and humiliated, translated their anguish into what you call "rage" and began terrorizing German kids?

How many of them stabbed Christian babies in their sleep, called for an open war on Germany, said that their "rage" is boiling over to the point when they got nothing to lose?

0.

You know what they did? They were trying to re-create. to focus on what was LEFT. on LIFE.

And their situation was MUCH WORSE then the Palestinians.

Let us look at things from the other side of the coin for a minute. Gaza is currently under blockade. There is a reason for that. The blockade, since it's existence, tells us we need to care of them to the point where they can exist and not starve.

Tell me, why is there a need for Israel to give them things that will only HELP them fight against Israel?

Is there any other country on the face of the earth which FEEDS it's enemies?

Will you ever hear of an Al-Quaeda fighter being treated without strings in an American hospital? Do you know that at cases the same people who shoot rockets at Israelis, are treated inside Israeli hospitals?

Yes we need to take care of them, because of the blockade. That does not mean we need to load the same gun which will shoot us in the future. It's simply insane.

I'm sorry but that sob story gets no sympathy for me.

I don't care what the Jewish creed is regarding the dust and rubble you call Israel. Jews have no right to march on any land and declare it theirs. As for you signature its insulting to the Arab families of Palestine who have inhabited Israel longer than Jewish migration back to your precious Israel.

I will tell you this...Without violating the terms here:

I hate what Israel stands for

I hate that when I protest against Israeli aggression I am somehow "Anti-Semitic"

I hate that you say "my pain is worse than the Palestinians"

I hate that my friends who are Israeli but of Arab descent complain of racism and are called "Arabush" by Jews in Israel.

I hate that my country (United States) supports you under this misguided notion that they are fulfilling some biblical prophecy.

I hate that you turn away when whole families are destroyed.

I hate that Israel did nothing when an American protester was ran over by a freggin bulldozer protesting the settlements.

I hate Israel all together

It is your issue to solve this hate.

It is our issue to make sure that Israel won't become another Calipath.

God knows, we had enough of those.

 

[Intense]

If we would just stop fucking with them, they wouldn't want to fly planes into our buildings.

Sure they would. They want Islam to take over the world. In order to do that, they either have to convert or kill the rest of us.

Yes but its also hypocritical to forget that Christians want everyone to come to Christ.

Why do you think they have organizations like "The Red Cross" missionaries, etc..

Yes and no. If I pray for you, or anyone, it's for your salvation, Communion with God, by whatever name you call Him, by whatever words you choose, in sincerity of heart. Your Faith, the Brand of Faith, being a matter of Conscience, is between You and Your Maker, same holds for Each of us. Let's distinguish between reminding us of our priorities and force feeding perspective. It is for Each of us to make our own choices, and take responsibility for them. Personally I don't see group rate discounts relating to Salvation. It's not about blaming others, nor finger pointing, either. Hold em or fold em, it's your call.

 

[Intense]

If an explanation is needed it's quite simple: When you make someone's life so miserable it's not worth living anymore the fear of death is diminished and is replaced by murderous rage.

Some years back I met a young Palestinian student while attending a credited lecture at Columbia. She was living here on a visa and she told us her family had for generations occupied a small date orchard for years on land which was being gradually expropriated by Israel: One day a car and a jeep pulled up to the house. There were three Israeli troopers in the jeep. One of the civilians from the car knocked on the door and told her mother their land belonged to him and they had two weeks to vacate.

She said there was nothing Semitic about the man. Rather he was clearly an Ashkenazi Jew, probably a migrant from the U.S., and that such expropriations were very common. She said if one asks these Israeli settlers how they came to own the land they tell you it was given to them by God. (A rather novel real estate concept.)

I was reminded of that story when I read about the Rachel Corrie murder and what prompted it -- the bulldozing of a Palestinian doctor's house by Israelis. I imagine the same situation happening to me and I can readily understand the kind of boiling rage that drives these suicidal shahids.

You take away everything someone has to live for, including their self-worth, and you'd better watch out. Because there is nothing in the world more dangerous than someone who is ready and willing to die and is extremely pissed off.

Tell me then, if you don't mind, just how many Jews who survived the destruction camps, Jews that had nothing left but their cloths, at best, who lost dear ones, property, home, who were abused and humiliated, translated their anguish into what you call "rage" and began terrorizing German kids?

How many of them stabbed Christian babies in their sleep, called for an open war on Germany, said that their "rage" is boiling over to the point when they got nothing to lose?

0.

You know what they did? They were trying to re-create. to focus on what was LEFT. on LIFE.

And their situation was MUCH WORSE then the Palestinians.

Let us look at things from the other side of the coin for a minute. Gaza is currently under blockade. There is a reason for that. The blockade, since it's existence, tells us we need to care of them to the point where they can exist and not starve.

Tell me, why is there a need for Israel to give them things that will only HELP them fight against Israel?

Is there any other country on the face of the earth which FEEDS it's enemies?

Will you ever hear of an Al-Quaeda fighter being treated without strings in an American hospital? Do you know that at cases the same people who shoot rockets at Israelis, are treated inside Israeli hospitals?

Yes we need to take care of them, because of the blockade. That does not mean we need to load the same gun which will shoot us in the future. It's simply insane.

I'm sorry but that sob story gets no sympathy for me.

I don't care what the Jewish creed is regarding the dust and rubble you call Israel. Jews have no right to march on any land and declare it theirs. As for you signature its insulting to the Arab families of Palestine who have inhabited Israel longer than Jewish migration back to your precious Israel.

I will tell you this...Without violating the terms here:

I hate what Israel stands for

I hate that when I protest against Israeli aggression I am somehow "Anti-Semitic"

I hate that you say "my pain is worse than the Palestinians"

I hate that my friends who are Israeli but of Arab descent complain of racism and are called "Arabush" by Jews in Israel.

I hate that my country (United States) supports you under this misguided notion that they are fulfilling some biblical prophecy.

I hate that you turn away when whole families are destroyed.

I hate that Israel did nothing when an American protester was ran over by a freggin bulldozer protesting the settlements.

I hate Israel all together

That's a lot of hate. You need to work past that. It's an obvious stumbling block.

 

[Intense]

If we would just stop fucking with them, they wouldn't want to fly planes into our buildings.

Sure they would. They want Islam to take over the world. In order to do that, they either have to convert or kill the rest of us.

Yes but its also hypocritical to forget that Christians want everyone to come to Christ.

Why do you think they have organizations like "The Red Cross" missionaries, etc..

Red Cross, Red Crescent, Salvation Army? I thought they were established to give aid and comfort. What I want for You, I want for Each of Us. Peace with God. Uncorrupted Peace. Not on my terms, or conditions, nor Yours.

 

[Aristotle]

Tell me then, if you don't mind, just how many Jews who survived the destruction camps, Jews that had nothing left but their cloths, at best, who lost dear ones, property, home, who were abused and humiliated, translated their anguish into what you call "rage" and began terrorizing German kids?

How many of them stabbed Christian babies in their sleep, called for an open war on Germany, said that their "rage" is boiling over to the point when they got nothing to lose?

0.

You know what they did? They were trying to re-create. to focus on what was LEFT. on LIFE.

And their situation was MUCH WORSE then the Palestinians.

Let us look at things from the other side of the coin for a minute. Gaza is currently under blockade. There is a reason for that. The blockade, since it's existence, tells us we need to care of them to the point where they can exist and not starve.

Tell me, why is there a need for Israel to give them things that will only HELP them fight against Israel?

Is there any other country on the face of the earth which FEEDS it's enemies?

Will you ever hear of an Al-Quaeda fighter being treated without strings in an American hospital? Do you know that at cases the same people who shoot rockets at Israelis, are treated inside Israeli hospitals?

Yes we need to take care of them, because of the blockade. That does not mean we need to load the same gun which will shoot us in the future. It's simply insane.

I'm sorry but that sob story gets no sympathy for me.

I don't care what the Jewish creed is regarding the dust and rubble you call Israel. Jews have no right to march on any land and declare it theirs. As for you signature its insulting to the Arab families of Palestine who have inhabited Israel longer than Jewish migration back to your precious Israel.

I will tell you this...Without violating the terms here:

I hate what Israel stands for

I hate that when I protest against Israeli aggression I am somehow "Anti-Semitic"

I hate that you say "my pain is worse than the Palestinians"

I hate that my friends who are Israeli but of Arab descent complain of racism and are called "Arabush" by Jews in Israel.

I hate that my country (United States) supports you under this misguided notion that they are fulfilling some biblical prophecy.

I hate that you turn away when whole families are destroyed.

I hate that Israel did nothing when an American protester was ran over by a freggin bulldozer protesting the settlements.

I hate Israel all together

It is your issue to solve this hate.

It is our issue to make sure that Israel won't become another Calipath.

God knows, we had enough of those.

Actually save those remarks to the Palestinians. Israel is no different than Hamas in fact, Israel is worse than Hamas. I have never been to Israel but have seen pictures from college buddies and all I can say is Israel looks a lot nicer than Palestine the place looks like a freggin slum. Those people live in worse conditions.

No wonder Israeli soldiers wear their M16 everywhere they go....

The Likud Party in my opinion doesn't want peace. The people who are vocal are hateful Israelis who want to maintain victimhood who shooting down palestinians and my countrymen.

My hatred for Israel is at the level of Palestinians but if I was a poor palestinian who lost a mother to a rocket intended for a Hamas figure and my family receive no recompensation for this "collateral damage" as the Israelies say, believe me I would join Hamas as well and do what I can to exterminate as many "Yahudis" as I could.


When will the Jews say ENOUGH to bloodshed? You act like the entire Palestinian people are terrorist. No, they are angry and full of rage and are likely to be recruited by terrorist organizations because these organizations can find a surplus of expendable soldiers.

 

[Aristotle]

Tell me then, if you don't mind, just how many Jews who survived the destruction camps, Jews that had nothing left but their cloths, at best, who lost dear ones, property, home, who were abused and humiliated, translated their anguish into what you call "rage" and began terrorizing German kids?

How many of them stabbed Christian babies in their sleep, called for an open war on Germany, said that their "rage" is boiling over to the point when they got nothing to lose?

0.

You know what they did? They were trying to re-create. to focus on what was LEFT. on LIFE.

And their situation was MUCH WORSE then the Palestinians.

Let us look at things from the other side of the coin for a minute. Gaza is currently under blockade. There is a reason for that. The blockade, since it's existence, tells us we need to care of them to the point where they can exist and not starve.

Tell me, why is there a need for Israel to give them things that will only HELP them fight against Israel?

Is there any other country on the face of the earth which FEEDS it's enemies?

Will you ever hear of an Al-Quaeda fighter being treated without strings in an American hospital? Do you know that at cases the same people who shoot rockets at Israelis, are treated inside Israeli hospitals?

Yes we need to take care of them, because of the blockade. That does not mean we need to load the same gun which will shoot us in the future. It's simply insane.

I'm sorry but that sob story gets no sympathy for me.

I don't care what the Jewish creed is regarding the dust and rubble you call Israel. Jews have no right to march on any land and declare it theirs. As for you signature its insulting to the Arab families of Palestine who have inhabited Israel longer than Jewish migration back to your precious Israel.

I will tell you this...Without violating the terms here:

I hate what Israel stands for

I hate that when I protest against Israeli aggression I am somehow "Anti-Semitic"

I hate that you say "my pain is worse than the Palestinians"

I hate that my friends who are Israeli but of Arab descent complain of racism and are called "Arabush" by Jews in Israel.

I hate that my country (United States) supports you under this misguided notion that they are fulfilling some biblical prophecy.

I hate that you turn away when whole families are destroyed.

I hate that Israel did nothing when an American protester was ran over by a freggin bulldozer protesting the settlements.

I hate Israel all together

That's a lot of hate. You need to work past that. It's an obvious stumbling block.

I can't. I lost all respect for this Israel's right to defend itself when an American protester was ran over by a bulldozer and Israel did freggin nothing. Actually my hatred was compounded after that. When I read independent news and see Palestinian kids being pulled out of rubble and considered "collateral damage" it sickens me.

All this talk about the Holy Land and God and yet Israel has no problen killing children.

 

[Aristotle]

Sure they would. They want Islam to take over the world. In order to do that, they either have to convert or kill the rest of us.

Yes but its also hypocritical to forget that Christians want everyone to come to Christ.

Why do you think they have organizations like "The Red Cross" missionaries, etc..

Yes and no. If I pray for you, or anyone, it's for your salvation, Communion with God, by whatever name you call Him, by whatever words you choose, in sincerity of heart. Your Faith, the Brand of Faith, being a matter of Conscience, is between You and Your Maker, same holds for Each of us. Let's distinguish between reminding us of our priorities and force feeding perspective. It is for Each of us to make our own choices, and take responsibility for them. Personally I don't see group rate discounts relating to Salvation. It's not about blaming others, nor finger pointing, either. Hold em or fold em, it's your call.

This doesn't ring true for everyone else. I cannot recall how many times an evangelical said I was going to hell.

If God is like any Christian I see here I can only recall the passage of Dante's Inferno:

'Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven."

 

[Lipush]

I'm sorry but that sob story gets no sympathy for me.

I don't care what the Jewish creed is regarding the dust and rubble you call Israel. Jews have no right to march on any land and declare it theirs. As for you signature its insulting to the Arab families of Palestine who have inhabited Israel longer than Jewish migration back to your precious Israel.

I will tell you this...Without violating the terms here:

I hate what Israel stands for

I hate that when I protest against Israeli aggression I am somehow "Anti-Semitic"

I hate that you say "my pain is worse than the Palestinians"

I hate that my friends who are Israeli but of Arab descent complain of racism and are called "Arabush" by Jews in Israel.

I hate that my country (United States) supports you under this misguided notion that they are fulfilling some biblical prophecy.

I hate that you turn away when whole families are destroyed.

I hate that Israel did nothing when an American protester was ran over by a freggin bulldozer protesting the settlements.

I hate Israel all together

It is your issue to solve this hate.

It is our issue to make sure that Israel won't become another Calipath.

God knows, we had enough of those.

Actually save those remarks to the Palestinians. Israel is no different than Hamas in fact, Israel is worse than Hamas. I have never been to Israel but have seen pictures from college buddies and all I can say is Israel looks a lot nicer than Palestine the place looks like a freggin slum. Those people live in worse conditions.

No wonder Israeli soldiers wear their M16 everywhere they go....

The Likud Party in my opinion doesn't want peace. The people who are vocal are hateful Israelis who want to maintain victimhood who shooting down palestinians and my countrymen.

My hatred for Israel is at the level of Palestinians but if I was a poor palestinian who lost a mother to a rocket intended for a Hamas figure and my family receive no recompensation for this "collateral damage" as the Israelies say, believe me I would join Hamas as well and do what I can to exterminate as many "Yahudis" as I could.


When will the Jews say ENOUGH to bloodshed? You act like the entire Palestinian people are terrorist. No, they are angry and full of rage and are likely to be recruited by terrorist organizations because these organizations can find a surplus of expendable soldiers.

You say you have never been in Israel. your knowledge comes from what...books? pictures? that's what you say.

So basically, you know jack.

Good to know we're getting somewhere.

Those people live in worse conditions. And why is that,? Doesn't your government give the Palestinians TONS of money? Where does that money go to?

You say Likud doesn't want peace.

Ok.

Peace is just a second to life. If we can make peace, sure why not. But let us not worship peace in a manner that we bury our families in its sake.

Your hatred of Israel comes from IGNORANCE, my friend. you say yourself your source of knowledge is very narrow.

You say if you would have been a palestinian who lost a loved one you would have joined the hate cyrcle.

So tell me, out of your deep "understanding", what is Tamar Fogel supposed to feel? What is Nahlah Pass supposed to feel? Are only the "Palestinians" with the right to feel rage, or anger?

Doesn't Osher Twitto have the right to feel revenge? Don't the children of the Haimof family? The schevischorder brothers?

Your critisicsm if anything, should be directed at both Israel and "Palestine" because we both screwed up since the beginning of the conflict.

You can also ask the Hamas or Hezbollah, if they aren't yet tired of bloodshed. Why is your hate onlytargeted toward Israel is beyond me.

It is about time that both Palestinians and Israelis decide we're all fed up with the current situation

 

[Lipush]

I'm sorry but that sob story gets no sympathy for me.

I don't care what the Jewish creed is regarding the dust and rubble you call Israel. Jews have no right to march on any land and declare it theirs. As for you signature its insulting to the Arab families of Palestine who have inhabited Israel longer than Jewish migration back to your precious Israel.

I will tell you this...Without violating the terms here:

I hate what Israel stands for

I hate that when I protest against Israeli aggression I am somehow "Anti-Semitic"

I hate that you say "my pain is worse than the Palestinians"

I hate that my friends who are Israeli but of Arab descent complain of racism and are called "Arabush" by Jews in Israel.

I hate that my country (United States) supports you under this misguided notion that they are fulfilling some biblical prophecy.

I hate that you turn away when whole families are destroyed.

I hate that Israel did nothing when an American protester was ran over by a freggin bulldozer protesting the settlements.

I hate Israel all together

That's a lot of hate. You need to work past that. It's an obvious stumbling block.

I can't. I lost all respect for this Israel's right to defend itself when an American protester was ran over by a bulldozer and Israel did freggin nothing. Actually my hatred was compounded after that. When I read independent news and see Palestinian kids being pulled out of rubble and considered "collateral damage" it sickens me.

All this talk about the Holy Land and God and yet Israel has no problen killing children.

Af for an American who has no connection to either side, you're terribly one sided.

 

[Intense]

I'm sorry but that sob story gets no sympathy for me.

I don't care what the Jewish creed is regarding the dust and rubble you call Israel. Jews have no right to march on any land and declare it theirs. As for you signature its insulting to the Arab families of Palestine who have inhabited Israel longer than Jewish migration back to your precious Israel.

I will tell you this...Without violating the terms here:

I hate what Israel stands for

I hate that when I protest against Israeli aggression I am somehow "Anti-Semitic"

I hate that you say "my pain is worse than the Palestinians"

I hate that my friends who are Israeli but of Arab descent complain of racism and are called "Arabush" by Jews in Israel.

I hate that my country (United States) supports you under this misguided notion that they are fulfilling some biblical prophecy.

I hate that you turn away when whole families are destroyed.

I hate that Israel did nothing when an American protester was ran over by a freggin bulldozer protesting the settlements.

I hate Israel all together

That's a lot of hate. You need to work past that. It's an obvious stumbling block.

I can't. I lost all respect for this Israel's right to defend itself when an American protester was ran over by a bulldozer and Israel did freggin nothing. Actually my hatred was compounded after that. When I read independent news and see Palestinian kids being pulled out of rubble and considered "collateral damage" it sickens me.

All this talk about the Holy Land and God and yet Israel has no problen killing children.

Let's distinguish between Human Nature and Politics, first. I really don't remember any Wars without collateral Damage and unintended consequence. That's part of why War sucks in the first place, and should be the last resort. The next issue is forgiveness. What can be forgiven, what can't, and what rules apply to who. We each have got to learn to let things go, otherwise how is it that even we ourselves attain Salvation? No One is without sin. No One from cradle to grave, has lived without offending others. Blessed is the Someone who had offended by being Righteous, that's both a given and a blessing. WWJD? What would Gandhi do? There are things beyond our power. Sometimes whole Generations need to die off before realization takes effect. Corrupting the young, playing the Vendetta game, only perpetuates the corruption. One thing to keep in mind here, is if you trace back far enough, all of the players are related. We are All related.

 

[Intense]

Yes but its also hypocritical to forget that Christians want everyone to come to Christ.

Why do you think they have organizations like "The Red Cross" missionaries, etc..

Yes and no. If I pray for you, or anyone, it's for your salvation, Communion with God, by whatever name you call Him, by whatever words you choose, in sincerity of heart. Your Faith, the Brand of Faith, being a matter of Conscience, is between You and Your Maker, same holds for Each of us. Let's distinguish between reminding us of our priorities and force feeding perspective. It is for Each of us to make our own choices, and take responsibility for them. Personally I don't see group rate discounts relating to Salvation. It's not about blaming others, nor finger pointing, either. Hold em or fold em, it's your call.

This doesn't ring true for everyone else. I cannot recall how many times an evangelical said I was going to hell.

If God is like any Christian I see here I can only recall the passage of Dante's Inferno:

'Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven."

Probably talking more in fear of Condemnation, than Faith in God being all powerful. We are each where we are. I'd side more with doing something because it's recognized as the right thing to do, over picking brands. I do believe that We each have a channel to the Almighty. I'd rather see you develop yours, through your own conscience, than blindly follow. That passage in The Divine Comedy, is pretty far from the root or theme of the work, don't you think? The Tangents are not the prize, though the lessons learned are of value, no?

 

[Aristotle]

It is your issue to solve this hate.

It is our issue to make sure that Israel won't become another Calipath.

God knows, we had enough of those.

Actually save those remarks to the Palestinians. Israel is no different than Hamas in fact, Israel is worse than Hamas. I have never been to Israel but have seen pictures from college buddies and all I can say is Israel looks a lot nicer than Palestine the place looks like a freggin slum. Those people live in worse conditions.

No wonder Israeli soldiers wear their M16 everywhere they go....

The Likud Party in my opinion doesn't want peace. The people who are vocal are hateful Israelis who want to maintain victimhood who shooting down palestinians and my countrymen.

My hatred for Israel is at the level of Palestinians but if I was a poor palestinian who lost a mother to a rocket intended for a Hamas figure and my family receive no recompensation for this "collateral damage" as the Israelies say, believe me I would join Hamas as well and do what I can to exterminate as many "Yahudis" as I could.


When will the Jews say ENOUGH to bloodshed? You act like the entire Palestinian people are terrorist. No, they are angry and full of rage and are likely to be recruited by terrorist organizations because these organizations can find a surplus of expendable soldiers.

You say you have never been in Israel. your knowledge comes from what...books? pictures? that's what you say.

So basically, you know jack.

Good to know we're getting somewhere.

Those people live in worse conditions. And why is that,? Doesn't your government give the Palestinians TONS of money? Where does that money go to?

You say Likud doesn't want peace.

Ok.

Peace is just a second to life. If we can make peace, sure why not. But let us not worship peace in a manner that we bury our families in its sake.

Your hatred of Israel comes from IGNORANCE, my friend. you say yourself your source of knowledge is very narrow.

You say if you would have been a palestinian who lost a loved one you would have joined the hate cyrcle.

So tell me, out of your deep "understanding", what is Tamar Fogel supposed to feel? What is Nahlah Pass supposed to feel? Are only the "Palestinians" with the right to feel rage, or anger?

Doesn't Osher Twitto have the right to feel revenge? Don't the children of the Haimof family? The schevischorder brothers?

Your critisicsm if anything, should be directed at both Israel and "Palestine" because we both screwed up since the beginning of the conflict.

You can also ask the Hamas or Hezbollah, if they aren't yet tired of bloodshed. Why is your hate onlytargeted toward Israel is beyond me.

It is about time that both Palestinians and Israelis decide we're all fed up with the current situation

Let's discuss where my knowledge of Israel comes from....

Since I was a philosophy major I studied extensive readings on Moses Maimonides and "Mish'nah Torah" along with his book "The Guide for the Perplexed"

My political knowlefge comes from following the Mid East crisis since the Clinton Administration. Aside from that I have several friends from Israel who I have befriended. I know one personally who was heavily into Hamas philosophy until he came to school out here. Giving Israel the benefit of doubt I decided one day to venture to a Sheol and see what is Judaism and Israel about (I find Israel walks hand in hand with Judaism) I was turned away both times. I was once told by a Rabbi that its prohibited for me to learn Jewish teachings.


So if a little ole guy like me is turned away because I cannot satisfy my curiousity to learn I can imagine what my Arab friends felt as they shared stories of their loved ones being killed and being discriminated against for being Arab.

Lemme see, hmm I know we give Israel tens of million (if not hundreds) of dollars, majority of it is military based. The aid we give to Palestine is not nearly enough.

What else do I know about Israel? I know its a racist state that is in love with its own victimhood. If I could I'd spit on the wailing wall.

 

[Aristotle]

That's a lot of hate. You need to work past that. It's an obvious stumbling block.

I can't. I lost all respect for this Israel's right to defend itself when an American protester was ran over by a bulldozer and Israel did freggin nothing. Actually my hatred was compounded after that. When I read independent news and see Palestinian kids being pulled out of rubble and considered "collateral damage" it sickens me.

All this talk about the Holy Land and God and yet Israel has no problen killing children.

Let's distinguish between Human Nature and Politics, first. I really don't remember any Wars without collateral Damage and unintended consequence. That's part of why War sucks in the first place, and should be the last resort. The next issue is forgiveness. What can be forgiven, what can't, and what rules apply to who. We each have got to learn to let things go, otherwise how is it that even we ourselves attain Salvation? No One is without sin. No One from cradle to grave, has lived without offending others. Blessed is the Someone who had offended by being Righteous, that's both a given and a blessing. WWJD? What would Gandhi do? There are things beyond our power. Sometimes whole Generations need to die off before realization takes effect. Corrupting the young, playing the Vendetta game, only perpetuates the corruption. One thing to keep in mind here, is if you trace back far enough, all of the players are related. We are All related.

Come on this is a complete cop out. How do you stop a bulldozer? You turn the damn thing off. This is different than flying an F-16 over land where objects are miniscule. This is what I dont like about all this. When an Israeli gets killed it was a terrorist act, when a palestinian that was not specifically targeted gets killed its collateral damage.

 

[Aristotle]

That's a lot of hate. You need to work past that. It's an obvious stumbling block.

I can't. I lost all respect for this Israel's right to defend itself when an American protester was ran over by a bulldozer and Israel did freggin nothing. Actually my hatred was compounded after that. When I read independent news and see Palestinian kids being pulled out of rubble and considered "collateral damage" it sickens me.

All this talk about the Holy Land and God and yet Israel has no problen killing children.

Af for an American who has no connection to either side, you're terribly one sided.

Again I was neutral until I had unfortunate collective experiences that shifted my opinion. Look at your freggin signature your one to talk. Palestinians were in that land longer than the Jewish. exodus prior to the 1900's and you say Arabs occupied your land?

 

[MHunterB]

The US has absolutely no business supporting Israel on the grounds of Biblical understanding - that's obscene!!!

The US has every right to support Israel on the grounds that doing so is good for the US - that's the proper basis for a secular state to use in decision-making. And I believe that there's enough information given by the US government (as opposed to this or that administration) to explain that basis.

I am not going to argue with a lot of the criticisms made by Aristotle against Israel. I *do* argue that he hasn't bothered to make any such list of criticisms with regard to either the PA or HAMAS - either of which has been claiming to represent Palestinian national aspirations.

I'm not sure what Aristotle's reason for not having such a list would be - if we go down the list of US allies, starting with the UK we can see things they do which are anathema to the US.......

 

[MHunterB]

PS: Aristotle, if one intends to convey "Israelis", one had better say "Israelis" - and better still the government or administration or parties involved.

When anyone criticizes presumed policies of "Israel" and then refers to 'the Jews', that sets up an unfortunate association which is extremely difficult to ignore. It's like a huge buzzing static behind all the words.

I'd also like to know if you place priority on someone being 'American' per se, or is it upon their specific personal philosophy and beliefs?

Incidentally, Corrie wasn't 'protesting the settlements' - and have you ever read the Israeli courts' findings on the case?

 

[Aristotle]

The US has absolutely no business supporting Israel on the grounds of Biblical understanding - that's obscene!!!

The US has every right to support Israel on the grounds that doing so is good for the US - that's the proper basis for a secular state to use in decision-making. And I believe that there's enough information given by the US government (as opposed to this or that administration) to explain that basis.

I am not going to argue with a lot of the criticisms made by Aristotle against Israel. I *do* argue that he hasn't bothered to make any such list of criticisms with regard to either the PA or HAMAS - either of which has been claiming to represent Palestinian national aspirations.

I'm not sure what Aristotle's reason for not having such a list would be - if we go down the list of US allies, starting with the UK we can see things they do which are anathema to the US.......

Do you honestly think the U.S supports Israel because of some moral reason? No. Most right wingers with political influence wants to maintain an alliance with Israel for religious reasons. Which is why Obama will not criticize Israel even if Israel is wrong. As for my criticism of the Palestinians of course they are wrong for lobbing rockets towards Israel. Two wrongs dont make a right. My issue is the language.

When Jews are criticized its anti-semitic.

To deny the holocaust is punishable (even if the person truly believes it).

When an Israeli is killed its a terrorist act, when a palestinian gets killed its either an elimination of a terrorist or its collateral damage. I am not saying to not be allies with Israel I am saying let Israel handle this by themselves