If Hobby Lobby wins...

[dblack]

Slavery has been outlawed. Business do not own employees and can't force them to do anything.

Thanks. Next time just copy Avatar and save the keystrokes

Glad to see you're actually interested in an intellectual discussion and not here merely to proselytize your own beliefs.

This thread actually could "devolve" into an interesting discussion. It's the core inability to see the difference between and employer's demands and legal mandates that really characterizes the modern liberal position on this kind of issue. If they could figure that out, we might get somewhere.

 

[Redfish]

No one can force beliefs on employees because no one is obligated to become the employee of someone else.

Heres the rub tho. What if more employers start imposing more "beliefs"? And a few turn to hundreds? The rule still applies that no one HAS to work there but many will have to work somewhere which means some will be exposed to it.

Does the worker lose their right to the CEO's belief?

you have no idea what the case is about. Its not about an employer imposing his views on his employees--------its about the government imposing its views on the people.

Hobby Lobby has no objection to its insurance covering birth control, it objects only to paying for abortion inducing drugs, because the owners believe that abortion is murder.

Hobby Lobby will win this one.

 

[PredFan]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

OMG! OMG! Disaster! The sky is falling! Pandemonium! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

 

[Avatar4321]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

Slavery has been outlawed. Business do not own employees and can't force them to do anything.

Thanks. Next time just copy Avatar and save the keystrokes

Let him say it his way. One of these days youll wake up and start listening.

 

[dblack]

Lefties just can't stand the thought of someone having the FREEDOM to exercise CHOICE. Ironic huh?

Nothing Ironic about it. It's pretty much their goals to eliminate the choices of others.

To be fair, I don't think that's their goal. I think they just don't see the difference between the demands of an employer and the state. They see all of us as destined to submit, it's just a question of whom we will submit to. And they prefer the state because we at least have some control over it via the democratic process.

 

[PredFan]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

I believe some religions don't believe in blood transfusions...that some religions don't believe in vaccines......I guess if Hobby Lobby wins, they too can pick and choose what health care services they can refuse to pay for for their employees...all they have to do is claim "religious grounds".

OMG! It will be THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!!

 

[Edgetho]

No one can force beliefs on employees because no one is obligated to become the employee of someone else.

Heres the rub tho. What if more employers start imposing more "beliefs"? And a few turn to hundreds? The rule still applies that no one HAS to work there but many will have to work somewhere which means some will be exposed to it.

Does the worker lose their right to the CEO's belief?

you have no idea what the case is about. Its not about an employer imposing his views on his employees--------its about the government imposing its views on the people.

Hobby Lobby has no objection to its insurance covering birth control, it objects only to paying for abortion inducing drugs, because the owners believe that abortion is murder.

Hobby Lobby will win this one.

CC knows exactly what the case is about. Exactly.

He is a lying scumbag that is here ONLY to incite flame wars and hurt the board.

The piece of shit needs to go away.

Permanently

 

[Avatar4321]

Hobby Lobby will win this one.

Unfortunately, it's Hobby Lobby should win this one.

This court has made bad decisions in the past. For example, if it had found Obamacare unconstitutional, like it is, we wouldn't even have to worry about this case.

There was no reason to find it constitutional, and they did, despite that their rationalization should have destroyed any jurisdiction to hear the case. It's difficult to argue that the statute is not a tax so they have jurisdiction to hear the dispute and that it is a tax to preserve it's constitutionality.

No HL should win their case. But with the corruption in the court, who knows.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work?

Nobody's religion requires that they force others to say the Lord's prayer.

Or have a certain diet?

Nobody's religion requires that they force others to have a certain diet.

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways?

What makes you believe any owner can force his beliefs on his employees now?

Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods?

Sure, and some do. But not to others.

Could a vegan make their stores meat free?

Sure, and some store owners do. Been to Santa Barbara recently?

Even their employees lunches?

How?

Where does it stop?

Probably sometime after it starts... which it hasn't.

Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

OK, I get it. You're trying to pretend that Hobby Lobby is somehow forcing its employees to obey the CEO's religion or something, when all they're actually doing is objecting to the government forcing them into violating their own religion. You're so desperate to fool people into believing a lie about them, that you're pretending they're actually doing what you're lying about.

What a bitter, malevolent existence liberals have to live, now that their schemes are failing and people are no longer believing their lies.

 

[Avatar4321]

OK, I get it. You're trying to pretend that Hobby Lobby is somehow forcing its employees to obey the CEO's religion or something, when all they're actually doing is objecting to the government forcing them into violating their own religion. You're so desperate to fool people into believing a lie about them, that you're pretending they're actually doing what you're lying about.

What a bitter, malevolent existence liberals have to live, now that their schemes are failing and people are no longer believing their lies.

he's pretending he is the victim when he tries to force his religious values on them through government fiat.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

No. A vegan grocery store IS meat free. Veganism isn't a religion, although it may act like one. A vegan store would NOT be required to buy ham sandwiches for their employees, not even if the store normally pays for employee lunches. There are 16 methods of birth control that HL agrees to cover. It will not cover medications that induce abortion, nor will it cover medications used to end life for euthanasia. Liberals want to refashion this controversy into one in which HL fires women who use birth control and prohibits the use of birth control by their employees. That's not it. If you want further explanation of why you are full of crap. Should an employer cover natural healing methods to the exclusion of prescription medications? Should an atheist employer be required to pay for "faith" healing and pay the healer of a Jehovah's Witness?

Heres the rub and correct me if I'm wrong (because I'm a nice guy like that). Hobby Lobby BELIEVES that some cause abortion but technically it doesnt. But because they believe it does they dont want to offer it even if they're belief is not factual. They incorrectly label some as being abortive when they are not.

So, if true. Facts dont matter really, you can just label something whatever you want and if that label oversteps your belief you dont have to offer it.

Its slippery as shit.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

No one can force beliefs on employees because no one is obligated to become the employee of someone else.

Heres the rub tho. What if more employers start imposing more "beliefs"? And a few turn to hundreds? The rule still applies that no one HAS to work there but many will have to work somewhere which means some will be exposed to it.

Does the worker lose their right to the CEO's belief?

you have no idea what the case is about. Its not about an employer imposing his views on his employees--------its about the government imposing its views on the people.

Hobby Lobby has no objection to its insurance covering birth control, it objects only to paying for abortion inducing drugs, because the owners believe that abortion is murder.

Hobby Lobby will win this one.

They can not wrap their head around that simple fact.....govt imposing its will.

 

[Edgetho]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

No. A vegan grocery store IS meat free. Veganism isn't a religion, although it may act like one. A vegan store would NOT be required to buy ham sandwiches for their employees, not even if the store normally pays for employee lunches. There are 16 methods of birth control that HL agrees to cover. It will not cover medications that induce abortion, nor will it cover medications used to end life for euthanasia. Liberals want to refashion this controversy into one in which HL fires women who use birth control and prohibits the use of birth control by their employees. That's not it. If you want further explanation of why you are full of crap. Should an employer cover natural healing methods to the exclusion of prescription medications? Should an atheist employer be required to pay for "faith" healing and pay the healer of a Jehovah's Witness?

Heres the rub and correct me if I'm wrong (because I'm a nice guy like that). Hobby Lobby BELIEVES that some cause abortion but technically it doesnt. But because they believe it does they dont want to offer it even if they're belief is not factual. They incorrectly label some as being abortive when they are not.

So, if true. Facts dont matter really, you can just label something whatever you want and if that label oversteps your belief you dont have to offer it.

Its slippery as shit.

you're a lying fuck

 

[healthmyths]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

QUIT the job if you don't like the environment!
Freedom of choice doesn't extend to a private work place.
YOU know when going in any requirements and if you don't like it QUIT!!

 

[manifold]

Thanks. Next time just copy Avatar and save the keystrokes

Glad to see you're actually interested in an intellectual discussion and not here merely to proselytize your own beliefs.

This thread actually could "devolve" into an interesting discussion. It's the core inability to see the difference between and employer's demands and legal mandates that really characterizes the modern liberal position on this kind of issue. If they could figure that out, we might get somewhere.

The bottom line is that regardless of what the Supreme Court decides, it's not going to be the harbinger of doom that fear mongers on both sides would have you believe. The question for me remains which is more palatable, giving the government the authority to mandate, at an unprecedented level of intrusion, how a private business allocates it's resources or allowing private business to force employees (or potential employees) to conform to their religious beliefs. The truth is, I'm not crazy about either of them, but the latter is the only one of the two that might be held in check by market forces.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Slavery has been outlawed. Business do not own employees and can't force them to do anything.

Thanks. Next time just copy Avatar and save the keystrokes

Glad to see you're actually interested in an intellectual discussion and not here merely to proselytize your own beliefs.

The intellectual discussion on slavery? Or on the thread topic? Because....uh

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Liberals are pathological liars.

 

[Little-Acorn]

The only people trying to force their religion on others, are govt officials trying to force others to conform to the religion of liberalism - a belief system that has frequently been disproven but still has fanatical acolytes devoted to spreading it far and wide, with no tolerance for any dissent or competition.

 

[Redfish]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

No. A vegan grocery store IS meat free. Veganism isn't a religion, although it may act like one. A vegan store would NOT be required to buy ham sandwiches for their employees, not even if the store normally pays for employee lunches. There are 16 methods of birth control that HL agrees to cover. It will not cover medications that induce abortion, nor will it cover medications used to end life for euthanasia. Liberals want to refashion this controversy into one in which HL fires women who use birth control and prohibits the use of birth control by their employees. That's not it. If you want further explanation of why you are full of crap. Should an employer cover natural healing methods to the exclusion of prescription medications? Should an atheist employer be required to pay for "faith" healing and pay the healer of a Jehovah's Witness?

Heres the rub and correct me if I'm wrong (because I'm a nice guy like that). Hobby Lobby BELIEVES that some cause abortion but technically it doesnt. But because they believe it does they dont want to offer it even if they're belief is not factual. They incorrectly label some as being abortive when they are not.

So, if true. Facts dont matter really, you can just label something whatever you want and if that label oversteps your belief you dont have to offer it.

Its slippery as shit.

You are wrong, the drugs they object to DO cause abortions. Its not a belief, its a fact.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Lefties just can't stand the thought of someone having the FREEDOM to exercise CHOICE. Ironic huh?

Nothing Ironic about it. It's pretty much their goals to eliminate the choices of others.

To be fair, I don't think that's their goal. I think they just don't see the difference between the demands of an employer and the state. They see all of us as destined to submit, it's just a question of whom we will submit to. And they prefer the state because we at least have some control over it via the democratic process.

Thanks unfortunately this point will be ignored. With a company you have no democratic process so what they say goes and if you dont like it then tough. You can not go there or work there. Understood. With the state you have some sort of direct recourse. Vote them out.

But they wont touch your point. Flaming talking points and name calling is what they are interested in really