If it's such a good plan...

[Care4all]

There ARE excellent reforms in this bill...to deny such is just plain wrong.

There are some problems with the bill as well...

 

[manu1959]

Del, why not support Obama's plan? Exactly what is wrong with it? (I have my own issues with O's plan, but I'm leaning towards support of any kind of reform bill with teeth.)

I'm not del, but in my opinion, if he has to lie about it, he knows there is something wrong with it.
Additionally, it's not a good enough plan that the congress and the president want to take part in it for themselves and their families. Sue Myrick from NC proposed an amendment to do just that and it was immediately shot down.

How exactly is congress NOT a part of this plan MM? They ARE a part of it as anyone's insurance is a part of it....?

no new bill needs to be introduced...that was a political posturing gimmick.

congress is under the same insurance reform AS ALL OF US....and each member of Congress will get to decide to move onward to one of the qualified plans that have all of the GOOD BENEFICIAL REFORMS in it, or they can stay with the insurance plan they have now with their own insurance company for 5 years of grandfathering.

They don't get anything any of us can't get....they get to grandfather their own insurance policy for 5 years, as I get to grandfather my own policy for 5 years IF I WANT TO...

But of course I don't want to because the new reformed insurance policies from these private companies have MORE PROTECTIONS for us in them than my old insurance policy does, so I would move on to the qualified policy as soon as it became available....

Honestly, this is just another lie perpetrated by the desperate and deceitful in office like the broad from NC...

Care

what protections will you gain.....

 

[AllieBaba]

None.

 

[L.K.Eder]

yes, reforms, not the crap being pushed by Obama and the dems

ok, you are for reforms, but if the government does not force some kind of reform, who will?

Licker, in this country, it isn't the government's job to "force" anything upon the people. It's to defend and protect them. Period.

OK. i was using the common terms of this battle. where Obamacare is rammed down some throats or something. I was simply asking, who would actually do the reforming part of the reforms, which divecon has stated he would like to see, but without government interference. do i make myself underschtandable? do you want to answer my question?

 

[KittenKoder]

None.

Better question ....

Has the government been able to protect us from paying too much ... ever?

 

[alan1]

Del, why not support Obama's plan? Exactly what is wrong with it? (I have my own issues with O's plan, but I'm leaning towards support of any kind of reform bill with teeth.)

I'm not del, but in my opinion, if he has to lie about it, he knows there is something wrong with it.
Additionally, it's not a good enough plan that the congress and the president want to take part in it for themselves and their families. Sue Myrick from NC proposed an amendment to do just that and it was immediately shot down.

How exactly is congress NOT a part of this plan MM? They ARE a part of it as anyone's insurance is a part of it....?

no new bill needs to be introduced...that was a political posturing gimmick.

congress is under the same insurance reform AS ALL OF US....and each member of Congress will get to decide to move onward to one of the qualified plans that have all of the GOOD BENEFICIAL REFORMS in it, or they can stay with the insurance plan they have now with their own insurance company for 5 years of grandfathering.

They don't get anything any of us can't get....they get to grandfather their own insurance policy for 5 years, as I get to grandfather my own policy for 5 years IF I WANT TO...

But of course I don't want to because the new reformed insurance policies from these private companies have MORE PROTECTIONS for us in them than my old insurance policy does, so I would move on to the qualified policy as soon as it became available....

Honestly, this is just another lie perpetrated by the desperate and deceitful in office like the broad from NC...

Care

If it's such a great plan, how come congress and the president don't immediately abandon the current plan they have? (You know, the one you and I as taxpayers pay for)
Now, please point out the lie in my post. You want to accuse me of lying, please state specifically what I lied about.

 

[del]

Del, why not support Obama's plan? Exactly what is wrong with it? (I have my own issues with O's plan, but I'm leaning towards support of any kind of reform bill with teeth.)

I'm not del, but in my opinion, if he has to lie about it, he knows there is something wrong with it.

One should always be careful of projection when entering any kind of argument. And you are correct, lying is the biggest red flag in telling you there is something wrong with the position being taken. Now shall I give some of the quotes from Palin and others from the right or is this enough said...

what exactly does sara palin have to do with this?
that's right-nothing.

thanks for stopping by, drive safely

 

[PeterS]

while it is totally none of my business i will comment on this anyway.

i am leaning more and more to editec's opinion.

better no reform and letting the system crash for real than a compromised wishy-washy reform which will keep the system on life-support for another decade.

the cynical part of course is for the system to crash, there will be a lot of real death panels and killed grannies.

a reformed private system wont crash
it just needs a few tweaks to make it better
like remove the state borders on the purchase of health plans
and allow "a la carte" purchasing on the plans, that way you only have to pay for the coverage you want
and if your situations change you can add the parts you need
we dont need more government to get in the way

The nature of all private systems is to crash and our own system is clearly in the process of crashing. You cannot have 47M plus in line for which 18,000 will die while waiting and think the system stable. It is not. And I would love to hear you suggestions for forseen "a la carte" purchasing when the very purpose of insurance is to cover the unforseen. Lets hear it...

 

[del]

I was making a point that it doesn't invalidate the rest of what he said. And I said you were right.

That's not a mis-direction.

if he was wrong, it DOES invalidate what he said

Was he wrong? AARP is working on 6 areas of reform in Medicare. All 6 are dealt with in the Obama plan which AARP tried to explain to its members in Town Hall meetings but they were canceled due to the 'shout-down' tactics or the right. Just how is it the right knows who is wrong when you never allow anyone to speak.

good deflection, well, not really. so why do you think the president lied?

The country's largest advocacy group for Americans over 50 issued a statement after the event saying, "While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate."

President Obama’s “Senior” Moment? - Political Punch

 

[Care4all]

aarp DOES support health insurance reform....???
Mary Scott: Why AARP supports health insurance reform | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Opinion: Viewpoints

Mary Scott: Why AARP supports health insurance reform

01:15 PM CDT on Friday, August 7, 2009

So you don't want to see any changes to health care? Well, imagine your health insurance premiums doubling over the next 10 years, the Medicare trust fund going bankrupt and the number of uninsured Texans continuing its meteoric rise. That's what you will have without meaningful health insurance reform.

Special interests defending the status quo are employing an array of scare tactics, half-truths and outright deception in trying to convince us that the system is not in critical condition.

The reality is that – with health care costs eating up 16 percent of our gross domestic product and the rising cost of medical care taking a toll on millions already struggling in this economic crisis – we cannot truly fix our economy until we fix health care.

As a dynamic organization of 40 million members with a long history of fighting for quality health care for all Americans – including protecting and strengthening Medicare – AARP has been targeted by those intent on slamming the brakes on any reform. We have not yet endorsed any of the bills moving through Congress, but our organization is committed to making health care reform a reality.

Unfortunately, the myth machine is out in full force today. Rather than addressing the issues with constructive dialogue, some would rather spend their energies misleading Americans. Let's take a few of their distortions head on.

Rest assured, AARP does not now, and never will, support a proposal that jeopardizes Medicare. Rather, we're fighting for reform that preserves access to our doctors and assures they will be paid fairly by Medicare, while reducing waste and fraud. And we're working with members of both parties to close the Part D coverage gap, or "doughnut hole," for prescription drugs. Reform will help curb skyrocketing prices throughout our health care system, including Medicare.

Make no mistake, there is no provision anywhere to allow Medicare to pull the plug or make you sign a piece of paper forcing you to determine how you want to die. Saying otherwise is inexcusable and cruel. Rather, the provision would allow physicians to be paid for time spent counseling and answering questions about things like advance directives, living wills, durable powers of attorney and hospice care. It's entirely voluntary and up to each patient.

Let's be clear, despite what those trying to scare off seniors would have you believe, nothing in any of the proposals would lead to rationing of care for older Americans or anyone based on age. And should it ever come up, AARP would lead the fight to kill it.

Contrary to the rhetoric of some fringe groups, health insurance reform is no backdoor attempt at creating "socialized medicine," where government directly owns hospitals and employs doctors. Rather, the aim is to implement a system much like members of Congress have today. People can choose from a range of quality, affordable private health plans, either offered by their employer or by the state or federally supervised insurance "exchange." Plans will have to accept everyone regardless of health or age, and have strict limits on cost-sharing so coverage is affordable for all.

We have the chance right now to take the steps that will make us healthier, both collectively and individually. It's a historic opportunity, and AARP will continue to work to see this through.

Mary Scott is AARP president. Her e-mail address is [email protected].

 

[DiveCon]

aarp DOES support health insurance reform....???
Mary Scott: Why AARP supports health insurance reform | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Opinion: Viewpoints

Mary Scott: Why AARP supports health insurance reform

01:15 PM CDT on Friday, August 7, 2009

So you don't want to see any changes to health care? Well, imagine your health insurance premiums doubling over the next 10 years, the Medicare trust fund going bankrupt and the number of uninsured Texans continuing its meteoric rise. That's what you will have without meaningful health insurance reform.

Special interests defending the status quo are employing an array of scare tactics, half-truths and outright deception in trying to convince us that the system is not in critical condition.

The reality is that – with health care costs eating up 16 percent of our gross domestic product and the rising cost of medical care taking a toll on millions already struggling in this economic crisis – we cannot truly fix our economy until we fix health care.

As a dynamic organization of 40 million members with a long history of fighting for quality health care for all Americans – including protecting and strengthening Medicare – AARP has been targeted by those intent on slamming the brakes on any reform. We have not yet endorsed any of the bills moving through Congress, but our organization is committed to making health care reform a reality.

Unfortunately, the myth machine is out in full force today. Rather than addressing the issues with constructive dialogue, some would rather spend their energies misleading Americans. Let's take a few of their distortions head on.

Rest assured, AARP does not now, and never will, support a proposal that jeopardizes Medicare. Rather, we're fighting for reform that preserves access to our doctors and assures they will be paid fairly by Medicare, while reducing waste and fraud. And we're working with members of both parties to close the Part D coverage gap, or "doughnut hole," for prescription drugs. Reform will help curb skyrocketing prices throughout our health care system, including Medicare.

Make no mistake, there is no provision anywhere to allow Medicare to pull the plug or make you sign a piece of paper forcing you to determine how you want to die. Saying otherwise is inexcusable and cruel. Rather, the provision would allow physicians to be paid for time spent counseling and answering questions about things like advance directives, living wills, durable powers of attorney and hospice care. It's entirely voluntary and up to each patient.

Let's be clear, despite what those trying to scare off seniors would have you believe, nothing in any of the proposals would lead to rationing of care for older Americans or anyone based on age. And should it ever come up, AARP would lead the fight to kill it.

Contrary to the rhetoric of some fringe groups, health insurance reform is no backdoor attempt at creating "socialized medicine," where government directly owns hospitals and employs doctors. Rather, the aim is to implement a system much like members of Congress have today. People can choose from a range of quality, affordable private health plans, either offered by their employer or by the state or federally supervised insurance "exchange." Plans will have to accept everyone regardless of health or age, and have strict limits on cost-sharing so coverage is affordable for all.

We have the chance right now to take the steps that will make us healthier, both collectively and individually. It's a historic opportunity, and AARP will continue to work to see this through.

Mary Scott is AARP president. Her e-mail address is [email protected].

too bad whats in congress right now ISNT reform

 

[PeterS]

I'm not del, but in my opinion, if he has to lie about it, he knows there is something wrong with it.

One should always be careful of projection when entering any kind of argument. And you are correct, lying is the biggest red flag in telling you there is something wrong with the position being taken. Now shall I give some of the quotes from Palin and others from the right or is this enough said...

what exactly does sara palin have to do with this?

You're the one who said "if he had to lie." Palin and her 'Obama death panel' is a far bigger streach than any indirect endorsement for Obama's plan by the AARP. AARP endorsed the Medicare changes in Obama's plan and the right is bashing Obama for lying about AARP endorsement. My, my such a lie...

 

[del]

One should always be careful of projection when entering any kind of argument. And you are correct, lying is the biggest red flag in telling you there is something wrong with the position being taken. Now shall I give some of the quotes from Palin and others from the right or is this enough said...

what exactly does sara palin have to do with this?

You're the one who said "if he had to lie." Palin and her 'Obama death panel' is a far bigger streach than any indirect endorsement for Obama's plan by the AARP. AARP endorsed the Medicare changes in Obama's plan and the right is bashing Obama for lying about AARP endorsement. My, my such a lie...

obama lied. he's president.
sara palin lied. she's an unemployed dipshit.

which one do you find more troublesome, hack?

 

[mal]

why is obama lying about it?

“We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors,” the president said.

At another point he said: “Well, first of all, another myth that we've been hearing about is this notion that somehow we're going to be cutting your Medicare benefits. We are not. AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, okay?”

The problem?

The AARP hasn't endorsed any plan yet

President Obama’s “Senior” Moment? - Political Punch

^Share it early and often!...



peace...

 

[KittenKoder]

why is obama lying about it?

“We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors,” the president said.

At another point he said: “Well, first of all, another myth that we've been hearing about is this notion that somehow we're going to be cutting your Medicare benefits. We are not. AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, okay?”

The problem?

The AARP hasn't endorsed any plan yet

President Obama’s “Senior” Moment? - Political Punch

^Share it early and often!...



peace...

Bah! We'll miss you Mal ... you have to try to get a message from whatever camp they toss you in after this.

 

[alan1]

what exactly does sara palin have to do with this?

You're the one who said "if he had to lie." Palin and her 'Obama death panel' is a far bigger streach than any indirect endorsement for Obama's plan by the AARP. AARP endorsed the Medicare changes in Obama's plan and the right is bashing Obama for lying about AARP endorsement. My, my such a lie...

obama lied. he's president.
sara palin lied. she's an unemployed dipshit.

which one do you find more troublesome, hack?

evidently he finds unemployed dipshits more troublesome.

 

[PeterS]

if he was wrong, it DOES invalidate what he said

Was he wrong? AARP is working on 6 areas of reform in Medicare. All 6 are dealt with in the Obama plan which AARP tried to explain to its members in Town Hall meetings but they were canceled due to the 'shout-down' tactics or the right. Just how is it the right knows who is wrong when you never allow anyone to speak.

good deflection, well, not really. so why do you think the president lied?[/url]

I don't. On AARP's web site they list seven pieces of legislation tied to health care reform that they support and they are leading the effort to debunk right-wing myths on health care reform. What I would suggest is that the right stop storming meeting and start listening then you might be able to see who is lying and who is not...

 

[Care4all]

aarp DOES support health insurance reform....???
Mary Scott: Why AARP supports health insurance reform | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Opinion: Viewpoints

Mary Scott: Why AARP supports health insurance reform

01:15 PM CDT on Friday, August 7, 2009

So you don't want to see any changes to health care? Well, imagine your health insurance premiums doubling over the next 10 years, the Medicare trust fund going bankrupt and the number of uninsured Texans continuing its meteoric rise. That's what you will have without meaningful health insurance reform.

Special interests defending the status quo are employing an array of scare tactics, half-truths and outright deception in trying to convince us that the system is not in critical condition.

The reality is that – with health care costs eating up 16 percent of our gross domestic product and the rising cost of medical care taking a toll on millions already struggling in this economic crisis – we cannot truly fix our economy until we fix health care.

As a dynamic organization of 40 million members with a long history of fighting for quality health care for all Americans – including protecting and strengthening Medicare – AARP has been targeted by those intent on slamming the brakes on any reform. We have not yet endorsed any of the bills moving through Congress, but our organization is committed to making health care reform a reality.

Unfortunately, the myth machine is out in full force today. Rather than addressing the issues with constructive dialogue, some would rather spend their energies misleading Americans. Let's take a few of their distortions head on.

Rest assured, AARP does not now, and never will, support a proposal that jeopardizes Medicare. Rather, we're fighting for reform that preserves access to our doctors and assures they will be paid fairly by Medicare, while reducing waste and fraud. And we're working with members of both parties to close the Part D coverage gap, or "doughnut hole," for prescription drugs. Reform will help curb skyrocketing prices throughout our health care system, including Medicare.

Make no mistake, there is no provision anywhere to allow Medicare to pull the plug or make you sign a piece of paper forcing you to determine how you want to die. Saying otherwise is inexcusable and cruel. Rather, the provision would allow physicians to be paid for time spent counseling and answering questions about things like advance directives, living wills, durable powers of attorney and hospice care. It's entirely voluntary and up to each patient.

Let's be clear, despite what those trying to scare off seniors would have you believe, nothing in any of the proposals would lead to rationing of care for older Americans or anyone based on age. And should it ever come up, AARP would lead the fight to kill it.

Contrary to the rhetoric of some fringe groups, health insurance reform is no backdoor attempt at creating "socialized medicine," where government directly owns hospitals and employs doctors. Rather, the aim is to implement a system much like members of Congress have today. People can choose from a range of quality, affordable private health plans, either offered by their employer or by the state or federally supervised insurance "exchange." Plans will have to accept everyone regardless of health or age, and have strict limits on cost-sharing so coverage is affordable for all.

We have the chance right now to take the steps that will make us healthier, both collectively and individually. It's a historic opportunity, and AARP will continue to work to see this through.

Mary Scott is AARP president. Her e-mail address is [email protected].

too bad whats in congress right now ISNT reform

why do you say that, have you read the bill? can you go in to detail what is not reform?

there are many reforms in this bill that are excellent, and cost cutting measures too...!

 

[Care4all]

del, obama did not lie...he said on board with health care reform, he did not say endorsed, and the aarp IS ON BOARD with it....?

Mary Scott: Why AARP supports health insurance reform | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Opinion: Viewpoints

 

[PeterS]

what exactly does sara palin have to do with this?

You're the one who said "if he had to lie." Palin and her 'Obama death panel' is a far bigger streach than any indirect endorsement for Obama's plan by the AARP. AARP endorsed the Medicare changes in Obama's plan and the right is bashing Obama for lying about AARP endorsement. My, my such a lie...

obama lied. he's president.
sara palin lied. she's an unemployed dipshit.

which one do you find more troublesome, hack?

You honestly haven't read the article you linked have you. Hack? Again, you seem to be talking about yourself. Projection is such a nasty thing...