If someone doens't want a union job they should....

[Jimmy_Jam]

What's "free market" about forcing people to pay for services they don't want?

You mean they don't want workplace safety, decent wages, right to be protected from abusive bosses?

Of course not. Everyone wants those.

What the "Right to Work" movement does is tell people you can have your cake and eat it, too. You can have all the benefits of being in a union without any of the burdens of being in the union.

Except those benefits usually go out the door when the union does.

Nobody wants to go back to this...

Why not? They look perfectly happy and productive to me.

But seriously, when pictures of children are posted to elicit an emotional response I always know I'm in for a thrilling and entertaining debate. Game on!

 

[g5000]

Closed shops are the grossest form of naked protectionism. they are a way of stifling the competition for jobs by excluding those who do not have a union card.

Fuck that shit!

.

 

[zakdavis]

some Unions are different....my shop steward would say that because he knows you can bust your fucking ass in the PO and you aint going to get no raise.....your going to be given more work.....

In a union shop, merit and accomplishment mean nothing. You get paid scale, regardless of effort or achievement. So union employees learn to do the least possible and maneuver for overtime.

um....and?

 

[g5000]

What's "free market" about forcing people to pay for services they don't want?

You mean they don't want workplace safety, decent wages, right to be protected from abusive bosses?

Of course not. Everyone wants those.

What the "Right to Work" movement does is tell people you can have your cake and eat it, too. You can have all the benefits of being in a union without any of the burdens of being in the union.

Except those benefits usually go out the door when the union does.

Nobody wants to go back to this...

I challenge every dipshit like yourself to visit an Intel fab. You won't find a safer workplace on the planet. You would be astonished at their level of safety mindedness.

And the workers receive excellent pay and benefits.

And not a union worker in the bunch!

.

 

[PredFan]

I will never ever knowingly buy anything that is union made. I have had this policy since about 1990s or so. Any time I see a union label, I opt out.

 

[Caroljo]

If someone doens't want a union job they should....

you left out quite a few choices.

alright.... how about this.

business A hires a person B. Person B is very happy with the new job... but is also informed its a "union shop" and if he wants to work...he has to join the union and pay dues?


Why?

the business hired him. Person B wants to work for them..... Why should the unions be allowed to force him to join and pay dues.... or not let him work.

They aren't forcing him to pay dues because he's free to take another job. If union membership is required its because the business and the union freely entered into a contract stating thus.

Well....in Michigan THAT CONTRACT IS NULL AND VOID! And, where in a contract between the union and the company does it say the company cannot hire anyone unless they belong to the union? I've checked my husbands handbook, his says NOTHING like this.

Yes, it's interesting in our household right now with my husband working in the factory (union) and me in the office......we work at the same place! Lol! But he does agree with most of this......

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

.

Higher negotiated wages, workplace safety, all that is good stuff. But I have three problems with unions, all of them quite fixable:

1. Post-employment benefits are extremely expensive. Use defined contribution (401K) plans instead of defined benefit (pension) plans. Like most everyone else. Take a massive monkey off the backs of union employers in one fell swoop, and perhaps they can hire more workers.

2. Goofy union laws damage quality and efficiency. You can drive that truck, but you can't drive that one. You can pick up that box, but not that one. Come on. Absolutely absurd and badly inefficient. Dump 'em and let the business run the way it should in an intensely competitive global environment.

3. Poorly performing, protected union employees. IF an employee is not measuring up, then there should be no impediments to an employer dismissing them, assuming reasonable measures have been taken to help the employee improve. Like anywhere else.

Let's make those three adjustments and then see where we are. Asking too much?

.

Fact is states with right to work laws are 7 of the 10 highest wage states.

top 10 states by median income based on average form 2009-2011

1 - MD
2 - NH
3 - CT
4 - NJ
5 - MA
6 - VA
7 - AK
8 - CO
9 - HI
10 - WA
State Median Income - Income Data - U.S Census Bureau

None of these states are right to work states.
Right to Work States | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

 

[PredFan]

.

Higher negotiated wages, workplace safety, all that is good stuff. But I have three problems with unions, all of them quite fixable:

1. Post-employment benefits are extremely expensive. Use defined contribution (401K) plans instead of defined benefit (pension) plans. Like most everyone else. Take a massive monkey off the backs of union employers in one fell swoop, and perhaps they can hire more workers.

2. Goofy union laws damage quality and efficiency. You can drive that truck, but you can't drive that one. You can pick up that box, but not that one. Come on. Absolutely absurd and badly inefficient. Dump 'em and let the business run the way it should in an intensely competitive global environment.

3. Poorly performing, protected union employees. IF an employee is not measuring up, then there should be no impediments to an employer dismissing them, assuming reasonable measures have been taken to help the employee improve. Like anywhere else.

Let's make those three adjustments and then see where we are. Asking too much?

.

Fact is states with right to work laws are 7 of the 10 highest wage states.

top 10 states by median income based on average form 2009-2011

1 - MD
2 - NH
3 - CT
4 - NJ
5 - MA
6 - VA
7 - AK
8 - CO
9 - HI
10 - WA
State Median Income - Income Data - U.S Census Bureau

None of these states are right to work states.
Right to Work States | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

Yeah so? Unions slugs are way overpaid. Everyone knows that.

 

[g5000]

I will never ever knowingly buy anything that is union made. I have had this policy since about 1990s or so. Any time I see a union label, I opt out.

So you have not gone to the movies since the 90s?

I find that almost impossible to believe.

.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If someone doesn't want a union job they should.... not be forced to pay tribute to a union as a condition of employment.

So... take responsibility and seek employment elsewhere - or get the state to force businesses to provide jobs tailored to their liking?

You actually support the State mandating Union membership for the right to work while claiming the state is mandating no union in a right to work state. You realize in a Right to work State one can BE IN A UNION and work at a shop that is not all Union?

Fucking moron.

 

[zakdavis]

Fact is states with right to work laws are 7 of the 10 highest wage states.

top 10 states by median income based on average form 2009-2011

1 - MD
2 - NH
3 - CT
4 - NJ
5 - MA
6 - VA
7 - AK
8 - CO
9 - HI
10 - WA
State Median Income - Income Data - U.S Census Bureau

None of these states are right to work states.
Right to Work States | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

Yeah so? Unions slugs are way overpaid. Everyone knows that.

I made 12.50 an hour in my union job.

 

[Caroljo]

No one is. If you don't want a union job don't apply for one. No one forces anyone to take a job at a union shop.

The fucking union doesn't own the shop and the fucking union doesn't hire people.

The union negotiates wages and benefits on behalf of the workers. If those wages and benefits minus dues aren't satisfactory to you, DON'T APPLY FOR A UNION JOB.

If you don't want an agent taking a cut out of the house you're buying - do you look to buy for sale by owner properties or do you whine and make it illegal for people to hire an agent? Well if you don't want the union getting your dues then don't reap the benefits of whatever wages they have negotiated, shop elsewhere for your job.

The business hires people and if a person the business owner wants to hire does not want to be in a union it's no one's business but theirs.

Not if the business has agreed to a union shop.
Fucks sake you're stupid. Who the fuck are you to tell business what kinds of agreements they can make with labor?

who the fuck are YOU to tell a company who they can hire? The company doesn't pay the union a cent for being there....they should have NO say on who that company hires.

 

[g5000]

No one is. If you don't want a union job don't apply for one. No one forces anyone to take a job at a union shop.

The fucking union doesn't own the shop and the fucking union doesn't hire people.

The union negotiates wages and benefits on behalf of the workers. If those wages and benefits minus dues aren't satisfactory to you, DON'T APPLY FOR A UNION JOB.

If you don't want an agent taking a cut out of the house you're buying - do you look to buy for sale by owner properties or do you whine and make it illegal for people to hire an agent? Well if you don't want the union getting your dues then don't reap the benefits of whatever wages they have negotiated, shop elsewhere for your job.

The business hires people and if a person the business owner wants to hire does not want to be in a union it's no one's business but theirs.

Not if the business has agreed to a union shop.
Fucks sake you're stupid. Who the fuck are you to tell business what kinds of agreements they can make with labor?

Those businesses have been extorted into creating a closed shop for the protectionist assholes who are so incompetent they need to keep out as many competitors for their jobs as they can.

.

 

[Desperado]

get the state to force businesses to provide jobs tailored to their liking?

I believe that is exactly what they did in Michigan today.

 

[g5000]

You have your highly skilled labor and you have your low skilled labor.

The jobs requiring highly skilled labor outnumber the number of people with those skills. So those people are highly sought after and paid accordingly.


The jobs requiring low skilled labor have an abundance of workers from which to choose. So unions found a way to cull the competition for those low skilled jobs. Closed shops.

Now they find in Michigan that protectionist scheme has been vaporized.

May the best person win the job.


If you don't like it, make sure your kids stay in school and are not raised with the attitude that if they quit, someone else will be forced to support them.

Make your kids marketable, and demand your schools teach them the skills they will need in the future.


.

 

[P@triot]

If someone doens't want a union job they should....

C.) OopsIpoopoo is a fucking idiot and an embarassment to America

I love the fear in his communist little heart. God forbid people have CHOICE, right OopsIpoopoo? That's not the communist way. We need coercion and force!

 

[daveman]

The idea that you think people should be forced to join a union as a condition of employment is absurd.

Try reading these English words:

No one is forced to join a union. If you don't want a union job, you're free to not take one.

Now do you understand those English words?

It's disgusting that you think you have the right to tell people they have to belong to a group that doesn't represent them and force them to pay those groups money to have them spend it against their best interests just tells us how big a robber you are.

Last time I checked, I'm not a union or a business with a union-shop agreement, so no, I don't have that right. What's disgusting is that you think you have the right to tell business and labor what kinds of deals they can make because you think you know better than they do.

What's so hard to understand? If you don't think the wages a union has negotiated at a union-shop are worth the dues, then seek employment elsewhere.

How does that work for a trade union? Is a plumber or electrician going to be able to find work in a union state without joining the union?

Hint: No.

Once again, the union position is anti-freedom.

 

[P@triot]

If someone doesn't want a union job they should.... not be forced to pay tribute to a union as a condition of employment.

So... take responsibility and seek employment elsewhere - or get the state to force businesses to provide jobs tailored to their liking?

They didn't get the state to force anything you high school drop out. What they did was get the state to expand freedom by STOPPING unions from FORCING people to be a part. It's about choice.

If union's are so damn great, why are you worried about it? Why would anyone not want to be part of a union if they are sooooo good for employees? Once again we see your "logic" fail under scrutiny.

 

[daveman]

You all fucking whine like bitches about the corporations getting all kinds of legal preference but have you ever even considered that unions get their share of special treatment at the public expense?

Big Labor’s Top Ten Special Privileges
[En español]

Labor union officials enjoy many extraordinary powers and immunities that were created by legislatures and the courts. Union officials claim to rely on the support of rank-and-file workers. Yet, they clamor in the political arena to secure and expand their government-granted powers, including the powers to shake down workers for financial support and even to wage campaigns of violent retaliation against non-union employees.

The following list of special privileges reveals the extent to which union bosses have rigged our nation’s labor laws in their favor.

Privilege #1: Exemption from prosecution for union violence.

The most egregious example of organized labor’s special privileges and immunities is the 1973 United States v. Enmons decision. In it, the United States Supreme Court held that union violence is exempted from the Hobbs Act, which makes it a federal crime to obstruct interstate commerce by robbery or extortion. As a result, thousands of incidents of violent assaults (directed mostly against workers) by union militants have gone unpunished. Meanwhile, many states also restrict the authority of law enforcement to enforce laws during strikes.

Privilege #2: Exemption from anti-monopoly laws.

The Clayton Act of 1914 exempts unions from anti-monopoly laws, enabling union officials to forcibly drive out independent or alternative employee bargaining groups.

Privilege #3: Power to force employees to accept unwanted union representation.

Monopoly bargaining, or “exclusive representation,” which is embedded in most of the country’s labor relations statutes, enables union officials to act as the exclusive bargaining agents of all employees at a unionized workplace, thereby depriving employees of the right to make their own employment contracts. For example, the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) of 1935, the Federal Labor Relations Act (FLRA) of 1978, and the Railway Labor Act (RLA) of 1926 prohibit employees from negotiating their own contracts with their employers or choosing their own workplace representatives.

Privilege #4: Power to collect forced union dues.

Unlike other private organizations, unions can compel individuals to support them financially. In 27 states under the NLRA (those that have not passed Right to Work laws), all states under the RLA, on “exclusive federal enclaves,” and in many states under public sector labor relations acts, employees may be forced to pay union dues as a condition of employment, even if they reject union affiliation.

Privilege #5: Unlimited, undisclosed electioneering.

The Federal Election Campaign Act exempts unions from its limits on campaign contributions and expenditures, as well as some of its reporting requirements. Union bigwigs can spend unlimited amounts on communications to members and their families in support of, or opposition to, candidates for federal office, and they need not report these expenditures if they successfully claim that union publications are primarily devoted to other subjects. For years, the politically active National Education Association (NEA) teacher union has gotten away with claiming zero political expenditures on its IRS tax forms!

Privilege #6: Ability to strong-arm employers into negotiations.

Unlike all other parties in the economic marketplace, union officials can compel employers to bargain with them. The NLRA, FLRA, and RLA make it illegal for employers to resist a union’s collective bargaining efforts and difficult for them to counter aggressive and deceptive campaigns waged by union organizers.

Privilege #7: Right to trespass on an employer’s private property.

The Norris-LaGuardia Act of 1932 (and state anti-injunction acts) give union activists immunity from injunctions against trespass on an employer’s property.

Privilege #8: Ability of strikers to keep jobs despite refusing to work.

Unlike other employees, unionized employees in the private sector have the right to strike; that is, to refuse to work while keeping their job. In some cases, it is illegal for employers to hire replacement workers, even to avert bankruptcy. Meanwhile, union officials demonize replacement workers as “scabs” to set them up for retaliation.

Privilege #9: Union-only cartels on construction projects.

Under so-called project labor agreements, governments (local, state, or federal) award contracts for construction on major projects such as highways, airports, and stadiums exclusively to unionized firms. Such practices effectively lock-out qualified contractors and employees who refuse to submit to exclusive union bargaining, forced union dues, and wasteful union work rules. So far, just three states have outlawed these discriminatory and costly union-only pacts.

Privilege #10: Government funding of forced unionism.

On top of all of the special powers and immunities granted to organized labor, politicians even pour taxpayer money straight into union coffers. Union groups receive upwards of $160 million annually in direct federal grants. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg. In 2001, the federal Department of Labor doled out $148 million for “international labor programs” overwhelmingly controlled by an AFL-CIO front group. Federal bureaucrats spend approximately $2.6 billion per year on “job training programs” that, under the Workforce Investment Act, must be administered by boards filled with union officials. Union bosses also benefit from a plethora of state and local government giveaways.

Yeah? So?

/typical leftist union drone

 

[daveman]

Nice cut and paste.

Thanks for proving me right, typical leftist union drone.