If the U.S. has no separation of church and state, what is the state religion?

[thereisnospoon]

All law is man-made. All supreme court cases support the conclusion that there is a metaphorical wall btn church and state. Any state action that proselytizes is an establishment clause violation.

I know I certainly don't want big government shoving religion down my throat. Do you?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Seems that reading that any other way would be sort of misguided.

I'd be interested examples of how the government could be involved in "shoving religion down my throat" other than establishing a religion. I think the church/state bigots are the same establishment democrats who thought the civil rights act was "shoving freedom down our throats".

Any governmental act or effort that presents religion in a manner consistent with proselytizing is fair game for "shoving religion down our throats." Honestly though, I don't want someone's supernatural ideas pushed on me in any venue. You can't watch a decent TV show on early Sunday morning b/c the stations are crammed with various doctors of divinity pushing their witchcraft.

here's the rub...One is free to change the channel.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Please tell us how your right to free exercise of your religion has been impaired.

Kids arrested for carrying a Bible to school. Christians prohibited from school grounds after school while crazy clubs promoting witchcraft have a wide acceptance. Prohibition of the Manger Scene on public property during Christmas. The court order that a Korean War Memorial in San Diego be demolished because it contains a 40 ft Cross. Small towns fearful of a ACLU law suit for a Christmas tree on public property. Prayer or the mention of a Christian God or symbols of Christianity prohibited in American public schools.

So which of those prevents you from practicing your religion? The kid was arrested for carrying a bible? Got a link for that?

Christians are not prohibited from school grounds. There may be a prohibition on Christian groups, but not Christians.

You posted some rather sensationalistic stuff there. Please show where your religion requires a manger scene on public property? Or perhaps show any biblical references to Xmas trees?

They banned school led prayers. But trust me, as long as there are exams there will be prayers.

Find the links yourself. Why must everyone do lib's homework.

 

[Antares]

Jakey where did the phrase "wall of separation" come from and why?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Please tell us how your right to free exercise of your religion has been impaired.

Kids arrested for carrying a Bible to school. Christians prohibited from school grounds after school while crazy clubs promoting witchcraft have a wide acceptance. Prohibition of the Manger Scene on public property during Christmas. The court order that a Korean War Memorial in San Diego be demolished because it contains a 40 ft Cross. Small towns fearful of a ACLU law suit for a Christmas tree on public property. Prayer or the mention of a Christian God or symbols of Christianity prohibited in American public schools.

Want a link to that. TIA

Boy Suspended for Bringing Bible To School Files Suit | Video | TheBlaze.com
10News - Student Suspended For Bringing Bible To School Files Suit - 10News.com - News

 

[thereisnospoon]

Or perhaps show any biblical references to Xmas trees?

'What' trees?

I asked for examples of people's right to worship has been curtailed or stopped. Part of the answer I received was "Small towns fearful of a ACLU law suit for a Christmas tree on public property". So, obviously, those trees are part of the Christian faith/worship.

Keep spewing garbage. You're not making any friends here. Now are you doing anything positive for your credibility.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A lot of religious nuts insist there is no separation of church and state in the United States because the constitution doesn't use the exact words "separation of church and state."

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

I'd like to know what they think it is.

Obviously, barring the establishment of a state religion means the exact same thing as separation of church and state. It's a synonym.

No, it doesn't. Fallacy fail. Thread fail.
/end

Explain how it's a fallacy.

You can not because it is not.

That's YOUR opinion...
It is not based in fact.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A lot of religious nuts insist there is no separation of church and state in the United States because the constitution doesn't use the exact words "separation of church and state."

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

I'd like to know what they think it is.

Obviously, barring the establishment of a state religion means the exact same thing as separation of church and state. It's a synonym.

No, it doesn't. Fallacy fail. Thread fail.
/end

Explain how it's a fallacy.

You can not because it is not.

BTW, who's the bimbo with the really bad boob job in your avatar?

 

[thereisnospoon]

A lot of religious nuts insist there is no separation of church and state in the United States because the constitution doesn't use the exact words "separation of church and state."

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

I'd like to know what they think it is.

Obviously, barring the establishment of a state religion means the exact same thing as separation of church and state. It's a synonym.

Damn, you really do know everything, don't you?

No, but I know more than you and I don't falsely claim to have read a scientific journal article.

Your failure was in your attempt to appear intelligent.
Failure also lies in your attempt to express an absolute.
You "believe" there is some kind of law or mandate that expresses this separation. It does not exist.
Tell me, why did you decide to open this can of worms? No doing to well at the bars?

 

[thereisnospoon]

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

No, it doesn't mean that.

(So much for that thread.)

If there is no separation between a government and a religion, of course it means there would be a government established religion. That's what no separation means, you idiot.

Now you are arguing just to argue.
Your point is nonsense. And so are you.
Please return to the hole beneath the rock from under which you crawled.

 

[Antares]

No, it doesn't mean that.

(So much for that thread.)

If there is no separation between a government and a religion, of course it means there would be a government established religion. That's what no separation means, you idiot.

Now you are arguing just to argue.
Your point is nonsense. And so are you.
Please return to the hole beneath the rock from under which you crawled.

I see, where did the phrase " wall of separation" come from?

Jake doesn't know so he will never respond, besides every time he engages me he gets his ass kicked.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Explain how it's a fallacy.

You can not because it is not.

You posit an either/or fallacy. Either the U.S. has separation of church and state Or there is an official religion.
There are many other possibilities.

Geez, debating with these people is like wrestling kittens.

It is either/or.

You fail to explain how it's a fallacy.

You can't explain how it is a fallacy because it is not.

You've got nothing.

You have expressed an opinion. Where you go wrong is insisting that view is the ONLY view.
Doesn't work that way. In opinion there is no right or wrong. That's why it's referred to as an opinion.
Now, if you choose to continue down this road, you subject yourself to further ridicule.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

QWB, who is not as much a Christian as I or some of the others, agrees with me.

What a GRAND...arrogant pronouncement there Fakey.

Nobody is as much a Christian as Jake, just ask him.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

QWB, who is not as much a Christian as I or some of the others, agrees with me.

What a GRAND...arrogant pronouncement there Fakey.

What? I am parroting QWB, The T, and his comment about me.

The arrogance is all his.

I don't recall ever saying anything about what kind of Christian you are.

 

[Antares]

QWB, who is not as much a Christian as I or some of the others, agrees with me.

What a GRAND...arrogant pronouncement there Fakey.

Nobody is as much a Christian as Jake, just ask him.

Well yeah...but then Jake is the best at everything, just ask him.

 

[thereisnospoon]

There are challenges to prayers lead by employees of state institutions or group prayers.

Are you saying your religion requires that you pray in groups? Does God not hear your prayer unless it is part of an event? In fact, I recall a parable in the bible condemning such showy praying.

They are not. They are challenges from some aggrieved party egged on by the ACLU.
WHo are you to tell people what their religion requires?

So anyone can claim any action to be part of their religious practices, and it must be accepted regardless of what their own doctrines and holy texts actually say?

Are you sure you want to open THAT door? Many Wiccans believe their rituals should be performed "skyclad" (meaning naked). If your school led prayer should not be stopped, why should their skyclad rituals be stopped?

First, this thing about the nekkid Wiccans is most likely a very small sect of the Wiccan religion. A mere flyspeck.
Secondly, no one in the thread here has advocated for school led( sanctioned) prayer.
So your point is moot.
All of your bloviating and hair splitting has become boring. Shut it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

It is either/or.

You fail to explain how it's a fallacy.

You can't explain how it is a fallacy because it is not.

You've got nothing.

Merely repeating your fallacious argument is not arguing. In fact it is another fallacy.
So you've offered two fallacies: the either/or fallacy and the mere assertion fallacy.

You are the one who is repeating a fallacious argument.

I already made my argument--that if there is no separation of church and state, there must be an established state religion.

Your only response is to call it a fallacy.

I'm asking you to explain why you call it a fallacy, and you CAN NOT.

This is the point where YOU get stuck. Where YOU are proven to be full of shit.

You made nothing. You expressed an opinion.
Standing in the middle of the room screeching and stamping your feet does not make you correct.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Claiming that it is either/or does not explain how it is a fallacy.

Are you simply playing dumb here? What if there are possibilities besides the two you've posited?

Well, I'm waiting. What are the other possibilities? If you could come up with any, that could possibly be considered an explanation for why my argument is a fallacy.

The OP is asking YOU....
Look, it is better to keep people guessing as to your level stupidity than post your drivel here and leave no doubt.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wanna bet? Young people are actually reconnecting with their Christianity.
That's a fact.

You lose. One in five Americans today has no religious affiliation, and for the first time there are as many who claim no religion as there are white evangelicals, according to a new Pew report. With evangelicals forming the GOP’s backbone, the party may face a struggle to survive, says Michelle Goldberg..

A Pew poll reported in The Daily Beast Pew Report Finding More Americans Unaffiliated With Religion Is Bad News for GOP - The Daily Beast

No religious affiliation is not the same as no religious belief Jake. For instance, I am not affiliated with any religion, yet you routinely lump me in with the right wing fundamentalist reactionary extremists because you are an idiot.

Because it is convenient.
Lazy people taking the path of least resistance.
Libs.

 

[The T]

QWB, who is not as much a Christian as I or some of the others, agrees with me.

What a GRAND...arrogant pronouncement there Fakey.

What? I am parroting QWB, The T, and his comment about me.

The arrogance is all his.

YOU are more Christian than QWB Fakey? HOW the HELL do you know this?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wanna bet? Young people are actually reconnecting with their Christianity.
That's a fact.

You lose. One in five Americans today has no religious affiliation, and for the first time there are as many who claim no religion as there are white evangelicals, according to a new Pew report. With evangelicals forming the GOP’s backbone, the party may face a struggle to survive, says Michelle Goldberg..

A Pew poll reported in The Daily Beast Pew Report Finding More Americans Unaffiliated With Religion Is Bad News for GOP - The Daily Beast

No religious affiliation is not the same as no religious belief Jake. For instance, I am not affiliated with any religion, yet you routinely lump me in with the right wing fundamentalist reactionary extremists because you are an idiot.

Because Born Again Christianity is not recognized as a religion or a denomination, it is likely these people who do not usually attend a church, bt practice their beliefs at the homes of fellow born agains, are deemed to not identify with a particular religion.
In fact, leaders of organized religions refer to them and others as "the unchurched"...
I once was paid a visit by a pastor of a small church who was soliciting for members. He referred to me in a not so pleasant tone as unchurched. I told him I thought "it was in very poor form to characterize a complete stranger in this manner on that person's property at the door to his castle"....The guy left with this hurt puppy look on his face.