If we all came from 2 people

[Indeependent]

I was simply posting from the point of view of someone who knows Hebrew and knows the NT is filled with flawed reference to Tanach.
If you want to prove I was out of line, study Hebrew and Tanach.

No. Go back and re-read it. You were behaving defensively as if my beliefs somehow diminished your belief.

I have a good basis for my belief. I don't expect you to agree with it anymore than I would have expected you to behave like an atheist towards it. Imagine my surprise.

Actually, I thought you were being a complete asshole and having a bad day.
What happened to all that time you spent on Torah.org?
I thought someone else was using your username.

You only saw the side of the attacker and not the attacked.

I lost a lot of respect for you that day.

Are you referring to me defending TN?
I still defend him as he's not totally obnoxious and he's trying to sate hos curiosity.
If I didn't go to a college with Observant Jews I probably wouldn't have become Observant.

No. I am referring to how you behaved like him.

Neither of you made a positive case. I kept asking you to tell me what the Jewish faith taught so I could establish a baseline. You wouldn't do it.

So I am doing it myself in a thread I created. You haven't commented in it yet.

The Jewish faith has no problem with soul searching and being cynical to a certain extent.
No one person in this world is going to hamper my 40 hours of week of learning Torah.

 

[Indeependent]

Can you prove what a strawberry tastes like without tasting it?

Poor comparison...you can put the strawberry in my mouth. That is compelling evidence of the taste of a strawberry. You are more making my point than yours or his, in that evidence-based thought (and science) has good methods for weeding out false information. Religion does not.

Not for someone whose tongue can't taste.
Describe music to a deaf person.
Color to a blind person.
This is way too easy.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Not for someone whose tongue can't taste.

Right, but that is a measurable, diagnosable, physical trait. Any person who measured it would draw the same conclusion.That is, itself, evidence of why that person cannot understand what a strawberry tastes like. So, you are back to relying on evidence.


And, back to making my point. You guys sure are doing all my work for me!

 

[ding]

No. Go back and re-read it. You were behaving defensively as if my beliefs somehow diminished your belief.

I have a good basis for my belief. I don't expect you to agree with it anymore than I would have expected you to behave like an atheist towards it. Imagine my surprise.

Actually, I thought you were being a complete asshole and having a bad day.
What happened to all that time you spent on Torah.org?
I thought someone else was using your username.

You only saw the side of the attacker and not the attacked.

I lost a lot of respect for you that day.

Are you referring to me defending TN?
I still defend him as he's not totally obnoxious and he's trying to sate hos curiosity.
If I didn't go to a college with Observant Jews I probably wouldn't have become Observant.

No. I am referring to how you behaved like him.

Neither of you made a positive case. I kept asking you to tell me what the Jewish faith taught so I could establish a baseline. You wouldn't do it.

So I am doing it myself in a thread I created. You haven't commented in it yet.

The Jewish faith has no problem with soul searching and being cynical to a certain extent.
No one person in this world is going to hamper my 40 hours of week of learning Torah.

I wouldn't dream of doing that. How about being a little more respectful of my beliefs? Would that be too much to ask?

 

[Indeependent]

Not for someone whose tongue can't taste.

Right, but that is a measurable, diagnosable, physical trait. Any person who measured it would draw the same conclusion.That is, itself, evidence of why that person cannot understand what a strawberry tastes like. So, you are back to relying on evidence.


And, back to making my point. You guys sure are doing all my work for me!

The known universe requires impossibly high precision let alone the factors of inter-species evolution.
The odds are so remote it makes any scientist who says it must be so to be a fraud.

 

[ding]

Not for someone whose tongue can't taste.

Right, but that is a measurable, diagnosable, physical trait. Any person who measured it would draw the same conclusion.That is, itself, evidence of why that person cannot understand what a strawberry tastes like. So, you are back to relying on evidence.


And, back to making my point. You guys sure are doing all my work for me!

I don't think we are doing your work for you. I just got finished having my way with you.

 

[ding]

That would be your job.

Yes, you are insisting it is my job to convince you of something without being able to use the evidence for it. I am the first to say that ibwould not attempt such a foolish thing, because I dont expect people to believe things without evidence. It's a very odd and ironic response from you, since it was my argument that you cant know things without evidence. You are literally making my point, over and over and over.

I am not doing anything that you are not doing. You just don't see it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The odds are so remote

The odds of what are remote? Every particle in our universe being exactly how it is right now? Well, yeah, but that would be the case no matter WHAT that configuration was. That would be the case if humans had gone extinct, 200,000 years ago, or if humans had never evolved. So you haven't really argued anything useful.

 

[Indeependent]

Not for someone whose tongue can't taste.

Right, but that is a measurable, diagnosable, physical trait. Any person who measured it would draw the same conclusion.That is, itself, evidence of why that person cannot understand what a strawberry tastes like. So, you are back to relying on evidence.


And, back to making my point. You guys sure are doing all my work for me!

I don't think we are doing your work for you. I just got finished having my way with you.

I don't why why I reply to a guy who always steps into a thread by calling anyone he disagrees with a moron.

 

[ding]

Ah, Fort Fun. This is the rhetorical trap. If you don’t believe in God, it’s because you aren’t “open” to experiencing a relationship with Him. It’s your own fault.

There are religious folk who would rather pray than see a doctor, too. When the kid dies, well, their faith just wasn’t strong enough.

Interestingly, you can see, smell, and feel the strawberry in ding’s analogy. But that’s not the case with God.

No. This is really more about people who demand evidence but have no evidence that they will accept.

But I am not surprised that you would see it the other way.

 

[Indeependent]

The odds are so remote

The odds of what are remote? Every particle in our universe being exactly how it is right now? Well, yeah, but that would be the case no matter WHAT that configuration was. That would be the case if humans had gone extinct, 200,000 years ago, or if humans had never evolved. So you haven't really argued anything useful.

I would ask you to stop playing dumb but you're so freaking blind and dumb already it's hopeless.
You know nothing about the energy it would take to expand and then to coalesce back into our universe?
And that's not including organic life where different forms of life are dependent on each other for survival.?
Are you that stupid?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I am not doing anything that you are not doing. You just don't see it.

You aren't demonstrating it. yes, you are demanding that something is knowledge... but you have no strawberry to give me! Nothing is preventing you from giving me a strawberry to taste... you simply don't have one. And that is the ultimate failing of your lame cliche.


As it turns out, faith is faith, and evidence-based knowledge is evidence-based knowledge. they are two different concepts. What you desperately want is for faith to have the same status as the knowledge... sorry, it will never, ever happen. By definition. you should be fine with that... I thought you were proud to have faith? now you are embarrassed of it? What gives?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I would ask you to stop playing dumb

I'm not playing dumb . You very clearly argued that the odds of everything being exactly as it is now are remote. But, that wold be the case no matter the current state of the universe. there is no "playing dumb" there. It is a complete and direct rebuttal of your very simple argument.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And that's not including organic life where different forms of life are dependent on each other for survival.?

Which is precisely why both of those species survive as they are. Else, we would have different species to observe. Again, you are not making any useful argument that helps us understand a ything.

 

[ding]

I am not doing anything that you are not doing. You just don't see it.

You aren't demonstrating it. yes, you are demanding that something is knowledge... but you have no strawberry to give me! Nothing is preventing you from giving me a strawberry to taste... you simply don't have one. And that is the ultimate failing of your lame cliche.


As it turns out, faith is faith, and evidence-based knowledge is evidence-based knowledge. they are two different concepts. What you desperately want is for faith to have the same status as the knowledge... sorry, it will never, ever happen. By definition. you should be fine with that... I thought you were proud to have faith? now you are embarrassed of it? What gives?

Of course I do. Go and seek out God. It's not that hard to do. Do you need for me to cut up the strawberry and spoon feed you? I'm happy to do it.

 

[ding]

Let's start with getting your mind right.

Do you believe that the potential for consciousness and intelligence existed when space and time were created?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Go and seek out God.

I have n need of that hypothesis. I won't be seeking unicorns or leprechauns, either.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Let's start with getting your mind right.

Do you believe that the potential for consciousness and intelligence existed when space and time were created?

Just make your argument. For instance, after this question , just say, "If so, then __________"

Go on, you can do it.

 

[ding]

Go and seek out God.

I have n need of that hypothesis. I won't be seeking unicorns or leprechauns, either.

Neither of those is the solution to the first cause.

I have offered you the strawberry and you refused to taste it.

Prove to me what a strawberry taste likes. I won't be tasting it either. You need to convince me with evidence.

 

[hobelim]

[God said every nation will hate the Jews until the end days.
No one has been able to eliminate us and everyone really hates us.

Really? Why do you think that everybody hates you or whoever us is.