If we rule out life elsewhere in our Solar System, why not seed it ourselves?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Why not seed Europa's oceans with micro-organisms? Why not seed the ice caps of Mars with life? Why not seed the methane oceans of Titan with life?

What is the worst that could happen? Maybe we can even engineer the life we seed on each body in order to benefit ourselves. For example, we genetically engineer bacteria for Mars seeding that converts carbon dioxide to oxygen, leaving hydrocarbon waste for us to use to make energy.

It is the smallest of the Galilean moons. Temperature: Europa's surface temperature at the equator never rises above minus 260 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 160 degrees Celsius). At the poles of the moon, the temperature never rises above minus 370 F (minus 220 C).Mar 22, 2018
Orbits: Jupiter
Discoverer: Galileo Galilei
Europa — Facts And Information About Jupiter Moon Europa ...

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Right..we wouldn't be seeding the surface....

 

[james bond]

Why not seed Europa's oceans with micro-organisms? Why not seed the ice caps of Mars with life? Why not seed the methane oceans of Titan with life?

What is the worst that could happen? Maybe we can even engineer the life we seed on each body in order to benefit ourselves. For example, we genetically engineer bacteria for Mars seeding that converts carbon dioxide to oxygen, leaving hydrocarbon waste for us to use to make energy.

It would be an interesting experiment, but they would die on Mars due to solar wind.

China tried to grow cotton on the moon and they were successful, but the cotton plants died.

Plant are much more resistant to radiation that animals. Some plants are virtually immune to it.

Seeding the polar caps of Mars with dark plants would lower the albedo of Mars, warming the planet and releasing trapped water and atmosphere frozen in the Martian soil. In a few centuries, with enough plant life, the surface of Mars cold very well become a lower gravity version of Earth with breathable air and liquid water.

The answer my friend is death is blowing in the solar wind. It's not just radiation, but proton velocity, flux, plasma temperature, and an substantial turbulence increase substantially. Even the heartiest plants would not be able to withstand it. The longest humans stayed on the moon was three days, but only around ten hours exposed to the conditions. The plant life experiments, if continued, should show this.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Actual science:

Tests Indicate Which Edible Plants Could Thrive on Mars - Eos

An undergraduate experiment grew vegetables and herbs in simulated Martian soil under Mars-like reduced daylight. The tasty results suggest that Mars colonists could farm their own produce.

eos.org

 

[ReinyDays]

Actual science:

Tests Indicate Which Edible Plants Could Thrive on Mars - Eos

An undergraduate experiment grew vegetables and herbs in simulated Martian soil under Mars-like reduced daylight. The tasty results suggest that Mars colonists could farm their own produce.

eos.org

Where did they get the Martian soil from? ...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Actual science:

Tests Indicate Which Edible Plants Could Thrive on Mars - Eos

An undergraduate experiment grew vegetables and herbs in simulated Martian soil under Mars-like reduced daylight. The tasty results suggest that Mars colonists could farm their own produce.

eos.org

Where did they get the Martian soil from? ...

Your imagination, apparently. Read the article.

 

[ReinyDays]

Your imagination, apparently. Read the article.

I got as far as "What do kale, carrots, lettuce, sweet potatoes, onions, dandelions, and hops have in common?" ... figured it was just ten-year-old crap you're so fond of ...

If we don't use Martian soil, then we're not testing what grows in Martian soil ... you know, science ...

I'd rather rip my guts out of my body, douse them with kerosene and set them afire than agree with James Bond ... but, solar wind ...

 

[Grumblenuts]

Real science:

The atmosphere of Mars is much thinner than Earth's. The surface pressure is only about 610 pascals (0.088 psi) which is less than 1% of the Earth's value.

This means that if one dropped anything resembling a typical Earth greenhouse on Mars it would explode instantly into a million pieces. Also,

The daily range of temperature in the lower atmosphere is huge (can exceed 100 °C near the surface in some regions; however those numbers still remain far below water melting point) due to the low thermal inertia.

And,

Planet-encircling dust storms (global dust storms) occur on average every 5.5 earth years on Mars

And,

The Martian atmosphere is an oxidizing atmosphere.

Which would likely attack metals used to frame blast resistant greenhouses.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If we don't use Martian soil, then we're not testing what grows in Martian soil .

Okay. And if we don't actually send people to mars, then we aren't testing the process of sending people to mars. Or some dumb shit.

The best we can do is test in simulated martian soil. Don't worry, no scientist is going to call it perfect. They don't need your advice.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

This means that if one dropped anything resembling a typical Earth greenhouse on Mars it would explode instantly into a million pieces.

Which nobody would be dumb enough to do, so this is kind of a frivolous point.

 

[Likkmee]

Why not seed Europa's oceans with micro-organisms? Why not seed the ice caps of Mars with life? Why not seed the methane oceans of Titan with life?

What is the worst that could happen? Maybe we can even engineer the life we seed on each body in order to benefit ourselves. For example, we genetically engineer bacteria for Mars seeding that converts carbon dioxide to oxygen, leaving hydrocarbon waste for us to use to make energy.

Sometimes I think Mars may be a bit too close to home for that because sometimes rocks from Mars land on Earth.

We could end up with a scenario where life evolves on Mars for millennia, then a novel pathogen from Mars that is viable somehow gets brought back to Earth's atmosphere on a meteor. An invasive species that wreaks havoc.

They can call it Comar and Bill will make a vaccine

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

but, solar wind ...

Mars's atmosphere and surface are fairly well protected from the solar wind. It did strip away much of the atmosphere over the last 4 billion years, but it is nothing like being on the Moon.

ESA Science & Technology - Solar wind boundaries around Mars

Solar wind boundaries around Mars

sci.esa.int

 

[ReinyDays]

Real science:

The atmosphere of Mars is much thinner than Earth's. The surface pressure is only about 610 pascals (0.088 psi) which is less than 1% of the Earth's value.

This means that if one dropped anything resembling a typical Earth greenhouse on Mars it would explode instantly into a million pieces. Also,

The daily range of temperature in the lower atmosphere is huge (can exceed 100 °C near the surface in some regions; however those numbers still remain far below water melting point) due to the low thermal inertia.

And,

Planet-encircling dust storms (global dust storms) occur on average every 5.5 earth years on Mars

And,

The Martian atmosphere is an oxidizing atmosphere.

Which would likely attack metals used to frame blast resistant greenhouses.

If we have 610 Pa of pressure outside ... and 610 Pa of pressure inside ... oh, right ... 5 tons of dynamite ... blasted to million pieces, I get it ...

The Martian atmosphere is an oxidizing atmosphere.

No it's not ... it's almost all CO2 ... an oxidizing atmosphere would be one that contain significant amounts of ... [giggle] .. Oxygen ... hell yeah, sodium metal frickin' burns in Earth's atmosphere...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

it's not ..

Yes, it is. Go check.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Real science:

The atmosphere of Mars is much thinner than Earth's. The surface pressure is only about 610 pascals (0.088 psi) which is less than 1% of the Earth's value.

This means that if one dropped anything resembling a typical Earth greenhouse on Mars it would explode instantly into a million pieces. Also,

The daily range of temperature in the lower atmosphere is huge (can exceed 100 °C near the surface in some regions; however those numbers still remain far below water melting point) due to the low thermal inertia.

And,

Planet-encircling dust storms (global dust storms) occur on average every 5.5 earth years on Mars

And,

The Martian atmosphere is an oxidizing atmosphere.

Which would likely attack metals used to frame blast resistant greenhouses.

If we have 610 Pa of pressure outside ... and 610 Pa of pressure inside ... oh, right ... 5 tons of dynamite ... blasted to million pieces, I get it ...

The Martian atmosphere is an oxidizing atmosphere.

No it's not ... it's almost all CO2 ... an oxidizing atmosphere would be one that contain significant amounts of ... [giggle] .. Oxygen ... hell yeah, sodium metal frickin' burns in Earth's atmosphere...

Sorry, my mistake. So are we assuming Martians will tend these greenhouses or will it be people trying to garden in space suits while out for a little spacewalk before quick hobbling back to the safety of their capsule?

 

[Grumblenuts]

At the surface the suits would contend with the atmosphere of Mars, which has a pressure of about 0.6 to 1 kilopascal (0.087 to 0.145 psi).[5] On the surface, radiation exposure is a concern, especially solar flare events, which can dramatically increase the amount of radiation over a short time.

Some of the issues a Mars suit for surface operations would face include having enough oxygen for the person as the air is mostly carbon dioxide; in addition the air is also at a much lower pressure than Earth's atmosphere at sea level.[6] Other issues include the Martian dust, low temperatures, and radiation.[6]

NASA Z-2 spacesuit prototype

 

[ReinyDays]

it's not ..

Yes, it is. Go check.

"[Atmosphere of Mars] is primarily composed of carbon dioxide (95.32%), molecular nitrogen (2.6%) and argon (1.9%)"

Which of these three is an oxidizer? ...

 

[Grumblenuts]

it's not ..

Yes, it is. Go check.

"[Atmosphere of Mars] is primarily composed of carbon dioxide (95.32%), molecular nitrogen (2.6%) and argon (1.9%)"

Which of these three is an oxidizer? ...

" The Martian atmosphere is an oxidizing atmosphere. The photochemical reactions in the atmosphere tend to oxidize the organic species and turn them into carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide."

If your actual beef is with my assertion "Which would likely attack metals used to frame blast resistant greenhouses." then sure, maybe not. I dunno

 

[Grumblenuts]

This means that if one dropped anything resembling a typical Earth greenhouse on Mars it would explode instantly into a million pieces.

Which nobody would be dumb enough to do, so this is kind of a frivolous point.

It's not frivolous. The point is to consider the stark contrast between having an actual "greenhouse" on Mars as opposed to that suggested by provided images of college kids playing around with "martian soil" in regular, old greenhouse facilities here on Earth. That suggests that soil composition is our biggest related worry. It's clearly not. Even though Mars gets far less sunlight to begin with, the "glass" would still have to be coated, tinted, or something (see face shield on Mars space suit) to protect both the plants and people from solar wind damage, X-rays, etc.

We must presume these greenhouses will be heated and pressurized else Earth veggies won't germinate other than to immediately burst and freeze. They'll constantly need water and oxygen. One would not be able to garden even in one of those spacesuits at Mars pressure because we'd look like the stay puft marshmallow man walking around due to the tremendous pressure differential and likely die from hypoxia anyway.

So any such "greenhouse" will need to be heavy as hell, tough as nails, equipped with all manner of human life sustaining apparatus. Even then we'd be lucky to get anything to grow until some atmosphere magically appears.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Spacewalk Spacesuit Basics - NASA

Spacesuits are much more than a set of clothes astronauts wear. However, like a set of clothes, different suits serve different purposes. Space

www.nasa.gov

 

[ReinyDays]

" The Martian atmosphere is an oxidizing atmosphere. The photochemical reactions in the atmosphere tend to oxidize the organic species and turn them into carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide."

If your actual beef is with my assertion "Which would likely attack metals used to frame blast resistant greenhouses." then sure, maybe not. I dunno

My beef is that CO2 is not an oxidizer ... by definition ... the carbon in this compound is already in it's fully oxidized state ... ergo, it cannot be further oxidized ... first year chemistry ... photochemistry in the atmosphere doesn't make the atmosphere itself an oxidizing environment ... oxidation can occur there, but through means unrelated to the composition of this atmosphere, including a photon slamming in at high energy ... if the afore mentioned atmosphere is very thin, like on Mars ... here on Earth, our pea soup of an atmosphere blocks almost all this high energy radiation ... iron rusts the old fashion way ...