Ignorant Homophobes fined $13,000 for refusing to host wedding

[Uncensored2008]

They didn't "sue". They reported them to the state for violating the law.

Any such law violates the Constitution.

Fuck the state.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

They didn't "sue". They reported them to the state for violating the law.

Any such law violates the Constitution.

Fuck the state.

You declaring that to be true does not make it so.

The courts have ruled on public accommodations laws before.

 

[bodecea]

Should a business be able to provide a business service to some, but not all, law-abiding citizens due to their declared religious grounds? Under the law that has to be a clear yes or no answer.

There is a problem here. You are dictating simplicity that does not actually have to exist. There is no legal principle that says legal issues have to deliver simple answers. Quite the opposite, legal matters often become quite complex. Your demand for simplicity would lead to fallacy of equivocation, as similar but distinct issues get compounded inappropriately.

"Religious grounds" is a two-fold issue. There's my beliefs, and there's your beliefs. If I refuse to serve you because of your religion, then I am discriminating, illegally at that. However, if I refuse to serve you because the type of service you want violates my beliefs, that is not discriminatory.

However, laws have to be enforced clearly with no "what if....". The law cannot differentiate between providing a service to some law-abiding, tax-paying citizens and not to others.

 

[bodecea]

They didn't "sue". They reported them to the state for violating the law.

Any such law violates the Constitution.

Fuck the state.

You don't like where some of your tax money is going. Instead of whining, why don't you take a stand and refuse to pay.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, the law makes it illegal to deny services because someone is gay - or Black, White, Hispanic, or for their age, or their gender.

It does not prevent them from denying service to anyone for any other reason.

Homosexuality is a behavior.

Is it also against your laws to refuse service to someone who is drunk? Someone who is violent?

You have overplayed your hand - you will lose.

 

[bodecea]

Where is it that freedom of religion allows one's business to discriminate against fellow law-abiding, tax-paying citizens?

the same freedom of religion that allows the state to penalize
people or businesses for their beliefs, as in this case!

No one is being penalized for their beliefs.

They are being penalized for their actions.

Really?

Semantics is all you've got?

Beliefs with no actions are worthless.

And beliefs don't justify actions when they break the law. It's not semantics, it's a fundemental issue that you guys don't seem to get.

If I believed that murder was not only ok, but required for my religion, would that give me the right to kill random people on the street?

So because you are gay it takes that removes a businesses right to deny services.

So because you are black it takes that removes a businesses right to deny services.

(try that one out)

 

[bodecea]

No, the law makes it illegal to deny services because someone is gay - or Black, White, Hispanic, or for their age, or their gender.

It does not prevent them from denying service to anyone for any other reason.

Homosexuality is a behavior.

Is it also against your laws to refuse service to someone who is drunk? Someone who is violent?

You have overplayed your hand - you will lose.

Who said a behavior isn't civilly protected? Oh, wait....you are comparing being gay with someone who is violent or drunk. Talk about "overplaying your hand".....

 

[Uncensored2008]

You don't like where some of your tax money is going. Instead of whining, why don't you take a stand and refuse to pay.

If I were so fined, I would refuse to pay.

You seek to impose your beliefs by the barrel of a gun; I applaud all who refuse to comply.

 

[Antares]

So their freedom of religion must be trampled rather than tell the gay couple to simply go have their wedding somewhere else? Why would any couple want to have their wedding at a place that did not want to host it? Why would anyone do such a thing? Answer: To be mean and spiteful to people who disapprove of your conduct.

And there is nothing "dark and twisted" about not wanting to host a ceremony that you find morally offensive. This is not a "version" of Christianity. The Bible says marriage is only between a man and a woman and that homosexuality is unnatural and deviant. So if you believe the Bible, you're not going to want to host a ceremony that you believe is offensive to God and contrary to Bible doctrine.

Where is it that freedom of religion allows one's business to discriminate against fellow law-abiding, tax-paying citizens?

the same freedom of religion that allows the state to penalize
people or businesses for their beliefs, as in this case!

No one is being penalized for their beliefs.

They are being penalized for their actions.

Really?

Semantics is all you've got?

Beliefs with no actions are worthless.

If my religion made me believe I should not pay taxes that go to war....that's one thing. If I take the ACTION of not paying my taxes, do you think the government care that I did it because of my beliefs?

Let's try and compare apples to apples.

Your sexual predilection in no way should ever abrogate my right to refuse service to ANYONE I don't want to do business with.

Your gayness doesn't entitle you to "special" made up "rights".

 

[theDoctorisIn]

No, the law makes it illegal to deny services because someone is gay - or Black, White, Hispanic, or for their age, or their gender.

It does not prevent them from denying service to anyone for any other reason.

Homosexuality is a behavior.

Is it also against your laws to refuse service to someone who is drunk? Someone who is violent?

You have overplayed your hand - you will lose.

Again, declaring things does not make them true.

And if you think they're just "my" laws, and not yours - see what happens when you break them.

 

[bodecea]

You don't like where some of your tax money is going. Instead of whining, why don't you take a stand and refuse to pay.

If I were so fined, I would refuse to pay.

You seek to impose your beliefs by the barrel of a gun; I applaud all who refuse to comply.

Feel free to do so....that is true civil disobedience......................except for the whining martyr part.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Who said a behavior isn't civilly protected? Oh, wait....you are comparing being gay with someone who is violent or drunk. Talk about "overplaying your hand".....

So then, it is illegal to refuse service to someone who is drunk?

You seek to impose your beliefs through the barrel of a gun.

You have overplayed your hand, a free people will not stand for this.

 

[bodecea]

Where is it that freedom of religion allows one's business to discriminate against fellow law-abiding, tax-paying citizens?

the same freedom of religion that allows the state to penalize
people or businesses for their beliefs, as in this case!

No one is being penalized for their beliefs.

They are being penalized for their actions.

Really?

Semantics is all you've got?

Beliefs with no actions are worthless.

If my religion made me believe I should not pay taxes that go to war....that's one thing. If I take the ACTION of not paying my taxes, do you think the government care that I did it because of my beliefs?

Let's try and compare apples to apples.

Your sexual predilection in no way should ever abrogate my right to refuse service to ANYONE I don't want to do business with.

Your gayness doesn't entitle you to "special" made up "rights".

True....but as soon as you state publically that you are refusing service based on who I am (gay) as opposed to what I might be doing (being annoying in your store)....you break PA (Public Accomodation) laws and I would most certainly report you to the state business bureau.

 

[Antares]

the same freedom of religion that allows the state to penalize
people or businesses for their beliefs, as in this case!

No one is being penalized for their beliefs.

They are being penalized for their actions.

Really?

Semantics is all you've got?

Beliefs with no actions are worthless.

And beliefs don't justify actions when they break the law. It's not semantics, it's a fundemental issue that you guys don't seem to get.

If I believed that murder was not only ok, but required for my religion, would that give me the right to kill random people on the street?

So because you are gay it takes that removes a businesses right to deny services.

So because you are black it takes that removes a businesses right to deny services.

(try that one out)

You want to hold forth that being gay is like being black?

 

[BlackSand]

So their freedom of religion must be trampled rather than tell the gay couple to simply go have their wedding somewhere else? Why would any couple want to have their wedding at a place that did not want to host it? Why would anyone do such a thing? Answer: To be mean and spiteful to people who disapprove of your conduct.

And there is nothing "dark and twisted" about not wanting to host a ceremony that you find morally offensive. This is not a "version" of Christianity. The Bible says marriage is only between a man and a woman and that homosexuality is unnatural and deviant. So if you believe the Bible, you're not going to want to host a ceremony that you believe is offensive to God and contrary to Bible doctrine.

Where is it that freedom of religion allows one's business to discriminate against fellow law-abiding, tax-paying citizens?

the same freedom of religion that allows the state to penalize
people or businesses for their beliefs, as in this case!

No one is being penalized for their beliefs.

They are being penalized for their actions.

Really?

Semantics is all you've got?

Beliefs with no actions are worthless.

If my religion made me believe I should not pay taxes that go to war....that's one thing. If I take the ACTION of not paying my taxes, do you think the government care that I did it because of my beliefs?

Are you a Native American?

.

 

[bodecea]

Who said a behavior isn't civilly protected? Oh, wait....you are comparing being gay with someone who is violent or drunk. Talk about "overplaying your hand".....

So then, it is illegal to refuse service to someone who is drunk?

You seek to impose your beliefs through the barrel of a gun.

You have overplayed your hand, a free people will not stand for this.

Comparing being gay to being drunk......talking about imposing beliefs throught the barrel of a gun.

Tell us again who is overplaying their hand.....

 

[Uncensored2008]

Again, declaring things does not make them true.

And if you think they're just "my" laws, and not yours - see what happens when you break them.

Laws which violate the United States Constitution are illegitimate - I recognize no authority in them. They are your laws, backed only by the barrel of a gun, not by any sort of justifiable moral code or tradition of law.

You seek to strip all of civil rights to force others to acknowledge your desires, you will be resisted.

 

[bodecea]

No one is being penalized for their beliefs.

They are being penalized for their actions.

Really?

Semantics is all you've got?

Beliefs with no actions are worthless.

And beliefs don't justify actions when they break the law. It's not semantics, it's a fundemental issue that you guys don't seem to get.

If I believed that murder was not only ok, but required for my religion, would that give me the right to kill random people on the street?

So because you are gay it takes that removes a businesses right to deny services.

So because you are black it takes that removes a businesses right to deny services.

(try that one out)

You want to hold forth that being gay is like being black?

As far as civil rights and the law....sure. As is being of a gender. As is being of a religion. As of being handicapped. As of being of a certain ethnic/nationality. You cannot take away the civil rights of any law-abiding, tax-paying citizen just because you don't like that particular "group".

 

[bodecea]

Again, declaring things does not make them true.

And if you think they're just "my" laws, and not yours - see what happens when you break them.

Laws which violate the United States Constitution are illegitimate - I recognize no authority in them. They are your laws, backed only by the barrel of a gun, not by any sort of justifiable moral code or tradition of law.

You seek to strip all of civil rights to force others to acknowledge your desires, you will be resisted.

Tough guy...how come you pay taxes for things you disagree with?

 

[Antares]

the same freedom of religion that allows the state to penalize
people or businesses for their beliefs, as in this case!

No one is being penalized for their beliefs.

They are being penalized for their actions.

Really?

Semantics is all you've got?

Beliefs with no actions are worthless.

If my religion made me believe I should not pay taxes that go to war....that's one thing. If I take the ACTION of not paying my taxes, do you think the government care that I did it because of my beliefs?

Let's try and compare apples to apples.

Your sexual predilection in no way should ever abrogate my right to refuse service to ANYONE I don't want to do business with.

Your gayness doesn't entitle you to "special" made up "rights".

True....but as soon as you state publically that you are refusing service based on who I am (gay) as opposed to what I might be doing (being annoying in your store)....you break PA (Public Accomodation) laws and I would most certainly report you to the state business bureau.

So you DO think you should get "special" rights.