In-Depth Fortune Story on "Fast & Furious" Paints Totally Different Picture Than Issa

[BDBoop]

I can do whatever I want and the nurses said this medication doesn't affect my wakefullness so hey squirrel, be right back. So then I said well I'd love to have some spaghetti for supper but those grains seem to make me poop a lot maybe I could have some of that spinach pasta? I don't know if you're sure of what I'm talking about but I was thinking maybe that ingrown toenail is more work than it's worth, I might have to have my left big toe amputated. I'm telling you, clipping my nails at this age it's like guided missiles going off and I'm afraid I'm going to put somebody's eye out. So I was watching Judge Judy, I can't believe kids these days, honest-to-God don't they have any respect for their elders? Just a bunch of foul-mouthed punks, I tell you what. They could take a lesson from that Tyra Banks, she's such a nice girl. Not like that Naomi Watts what the hell is the idea, slapping people upside the head with a telephone of all things? I'd just stick a knitting needle in her ear, no charges, not unless they catch me. By the way, I am making the coolest sweater for my grandson, I figure if Rosie Grier can crochet, why can't I. Is it time for pottery class yet? I don't want to work with macaroni anymore, I think I'm allergic to the glue. I need to get ready for the picnic on the 4th, I said I'd bring my famous seven bean salad. Will you be joining us?

Um, no. I have plans.

 

[BDBoop]

You know, that stupid ass paging down shit to make some huge point that didn't need making smacks of Shaman on the irritability front. I'd like to slap whoever gave you internet access.

Fuck YOU BD Barf. I'd like to draw and quarter your Internet Provider for not giving you a test first. YOU are clearly incompetent BOOB with the shit you post.

What got up Mel Gibson's ass?

He drinks, but only to excess.

 

[Vast LWC]

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.

So...now what, Right Wing nutjobs? Where's your indignation going to rest if it turns out this was, at the end of the day, a fuck up and nothing more?

"Republican senators are whipping up the country into a psychotic frenzy with these reports that are patently false," says Linda Wallace, a special agent with the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigation unit who was assigned to the Fast and Furious team (and recently retired from the IRS). A self-described gun-rights supporter, Wallace has not been criticized by Issa's committee.

Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

When all this gets out, and you know it will, I know the Right Wing will say it's all bullshit, but it's looking more and more like Issa's crusade against Holder and ultimately Obama is full of half-truths and lies. Or as we call it in the biz: BULLSHIT.

Good times, guys. Way to gin-up a scandal!

Yep, I read that. It was quite interesting.

 

[asaratis]

I can do whatever I want and the nurses said this medication doesn't affect my wakefullness so hey squirrel, be right back. So then I said well I'd love to have some spaghetti for supper but those grains seem to make me poop a lot maybe I could have some of that spinach pasta? I don't know if you're sure of what I'm talking about but I was thinking maybe that ingrown toenail is more work than it's worth, I might have to have my left big toe amputated. I'm telling you, clipping my nails at this age it's like guided missiles going off and I'm afraid I'm going to put somebody's eye out. So I was watching Judge Judy, I can't believe kids these days, honest-to-God don't they have any respect for their elders? Just a bunch of foul-mouthed punks, I tell you what. They could take a lesson from that Tyra Banks, she's such a nice girl. Not like that Naomi Watts what the hell is the idea, slapping people upside the head with a telephone of all things? I'd just stick a knitting needle in her ear, no charges, not unless they catch me. By the way, I am making the coolest sweater for my grandson, I figure if Rosie Grier can crochet, why can't I. Is it time for pottery class yet? I don't want to work with macaroni anymore, I think I'm allergic to the glue. I need to get ready for the picnic on the 4th, I said I'd bring my famous seven bean salad. Will you be joining us?

Um, no. I have plans.

Congratulations! You have been promoted! You are now even with TM and rdean in the race to complete idiocy!

 

[Zander]

According to some people here, expecting our government officials to tell the truth and act in accordance with the law is acting "like a wingnut".

 

[Vast LWC]

Yea I am sure Fortune knows so much more than Issa does.


And if nothing bad is happening, why wouldn't the Hussein and Holder just give them the documents they want?

According to Issa, he doesn't know anything.

He's requesting the documents so he can find out if there was a conspiracy.

And they're not giving him the documents, because they are part of a continuing criminal investigation.

Here's a thought:

What if the government is still in the middle of the sting operation?

What if they end up catching a whole bunch of criminals in a month or so?

I wonder how the right will spin that...

 

[BDBoop]

Yea I am sure Fortune knows so much more than Issa does.


And if nothing bad is happening, why wouldn't the Hussein and Holder just give them the documents they want?

According to Issa, he doesn't know anything.

He's requesting the documents so he can find out if there was a conspiracy.

And they're not giving him the documents, because they are part of a continuing criminal investigation.

Here's a thought:

What if the government is still in the middle of the sting operation?

What if they end up catching a whole bunch of criminals in a month or so?

I wonder how the right will spin that...

Their hands are so tied (I'm still reading the long ass article) that I can't see them really accomplishing anything. For instance.

Phoenix-based ATF agents became so frustrated by prosecutors' intransigence that, in a highly unusual move, they began bringing big cases to the state attorney general's office instead. Terry Goddard, Arizona's Attorney General from 2003 to 2011, says of federal prosecutors, "They demanded that every i be dotted, every t be crossed, and after a while, it got to be nonsensical."

For prosecutors, straw-purchasing cases were hard to prove and unrewarding to prosecute, with minimal penalties attached. In December 2010, five U.S. Attorneys along the Southwest border, including Burke in Arizona, wrote to the U.S. Sentencing Commission, asking that penalties for straw purchasing be increased. The commission did increase the recommended jail time by a few months. But because the straw purchasers, by definition, have no criminal record and there is no firearms-trafficking statute that would allow prosecutors to charge them with conspiracy as a group, the penalties remain low.

Prosecutors repeatedly rebuffed Voth's requests. After examining one suspect's garbage, agents learned he was on food stamps yet had plunked down more than $300,000 for 476 firearms in six months. Voth asked if the ATF could arrest him for fraudulently accepting public assistance when he was spending such huge sums. Prosecutor Hurley said no. In another instance, a young jobless suspect paid more than $10,000 for a 50-caliber tripod-mounted sniper rifle. According to Voth, Hurley told the agents they lacked proof that he hadn't bought the gun for himself.

Voth grew deeply frustrated. In August 2010, after the ATF in Texas confiscated 80 guns—63 of them purchased in Arizona by the Fast and Furious suspects— Voth got an e-mail from a colleague there: "Are you all planning to stop some of these guys any time soon? That's a lot of guns…Are you just letting these guns walk?"

Voth responded with barely suppressed rage: "Have I offended you in some way? Because I am very offended by your e-mail. Define walk? Without Probable Cause and concurrence from the USAO [U.S. Attorney's Office] it is highway robbery if we take someone's property." He then recounted the situation with the unemployed suspect who had bought the sniper rifle. "We conducted a field interview and after calling the AUSA [assistant U.S. Attorney] he said we did not have sufficient PC [probable cause] to take the firearm so our suspect drove home with said firearm in his car…any ideas on how we could not let that firearm 'walk'"?

 

[BlindBoo]

An interesting read. Thanks Derrps

 

[Vast LWC]

So we blindly believe one report while throwing out all others.

The only people who are "blindly believing" anything around here are the right-wingers who have been making shit up about this investigation for months now, without any definitive proof of anything.

For instance, I don't blindly believe the Fortune report, but then, I certainly don't blindly believe the CBS story, which in the end is the testimony of one guy, either.

And I certainly don't believe all the right-wing spin that's been put on the story.

After all, according to them, there's a new scandal hidden in every tiny minute action this administration takes.

Hell, according to them removing cutlery from a dinner event that the president is attending is a scandal.

 

[Vast LWC]

In fact, it would seem, from the article, that the residents of Arizona have been selling tens of thousands of guns to Mexican Drug gangs for decades, and, thanks to Republicans refusing to even accept rational rules for gun sales, (like databases of ownership) nobody's been able to do shit about it.

I wonder how many people have been killed as the result of Arizonian gun-running?

 

[BDBoop]

In fact, it would seem, from the article, that the residents of Arizona have been selling tens of thousands of guns to Mexican Drug gangs for decades, and, thanks to Republicans refusing to even accept rational rules for gun sales, (like databases of ownership) nobody's been able to do shit about it.

I wonder how many people have been killed as the result of Arizonian gun-running?

Ayup!

There's a lot of ugly in Arizona, and Jan Brewer's face is just the icing on the cake.

 

[flacaltenn]

According to some people here, expecting our government officials to tell the truth and act in accordance with the law is acting "like a wingnut".

'bout time someone summarized the situation like Zander did.. Think you'll see a validation of his observation when and if a contempt vote is taken.. Be sure to look at the BIPARTISIAN participation...


I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHO is gonna get fired and WHEN youre gonna DO IT!!!!!

If we need more documents to determine that --- RAID the f'ing Justice Dept for them....

 

[BDBoop]

According to some people here, expecting our government officials to tell the truth and act in accordance with the law is acting "like a wingnut".

'bout time someone summarized the situation like Zander did..

I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHEN and WHO is gonna get fired!!!!!

If we need more documents to determine that --- RAID the f'ing Justice Dept for them....

You appear to be hysterical.

 

[Vast LWC]

'bout time someone summarized the situation like Zander did..

I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHO is gonna get fired and WHEN youre gonna DO IT!!!!!

If we need more documents to determine that --- RAID the f'ing Justice Dept for them....

I would suggest you read the article that is the subject of the thread.

If what's written there is even half true, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[jack113]

According to some people here, expecting our government officials to tell the truth and act in accordance with the law is acting "like a wingnut".

If the GOP is so up on supporting the rule of law why did it throw it out the window when Bush outed a CIA officer and created two terrorist wars for profit that murdered over two million innocent people in two countries?

Funny how the whole GOP scenario changes when they become the minority. It was the republican party that deregulated the Wall Street thieves and destroyed the worlds economy and now you want to talk about the rule of law.

 

[BDBoop]

'bout time someone summarized the situation like Zander did..

I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHO is gonna get fired and WHEN youre gonna DO IT!!!!!

If we need more documents to determine that --- RAID the f'ing Justice Dept for them....

I would suggest you read the article that is the subject of the thread.

If what's written there is even half true, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

They'll probably decide Fortune/CNN is a left-wing rag.

 

[Vast LWC]

'bout time someone summarized the situation like Zander did..

I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHO is gonna get fired and WHEN youre gonna DO IT!!!!!

If we need more documents to determine that --- RAID the f'ing Justice Dept for them....

I would suggest you read the article that is the subject of the thread.

If what's written there is even half true, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

They'll probably decide Fortune/CNN is a left-wing rag.

Holy crap, I was just about to say that. Great minds think alike.

 

[Vast LWC]

Damn that Fortune magazine, always with the socialist/left-wing propaganda!

ROFL.

 

[tinydancer]

So we blindly believe one report while throwing out all others.

The only people who are "blindly believing" anything around here are the right-wingers who have been making shit up about this investigation for months now, without any definitive proof of anything.

For instance, I don't blindly believe the Fortune report, but then, I certainly don't blindly believe the CBS story, which in the end is the testimony of one guy, either.

And I certainly don't believe all the right-wing spin that's been put on the story.

After all, according to them, there's a new scandal hidden in every tiny minute action this administration takes.

Hell, according to them removing cutlery from a dinner event that the president is attending is a scandal.

Quoting evidence presented in the CBS investigation is now right wing spin?

Holy shit. And CBS has far more evidence than just the testimoney of "one guy". Good grief.

 

[Sallow]

Yea I am sure Fortune knows so much more than Issa does.


And if nothing bad is happening, why wouldn't the Hussein and Holder just give them the documents they want?

Maybe they do.

What did Issa do before coming to congress? Well let's see. He stole a Maserati. He got caught with an unlicensed gun. He started a car alarm business (big surprise here). He's gotten accused of torching his own business. He got elected to the house of Representives.

Good record..there.