In Praise of Apple's Low Taxes

[Vandalshandle]

Apple's tax accountants are only doing their job. However, this entire tax avoidance issue is being exposed, not to demonize Apple, but to dramatize why major, significant changes must be made in the corporate tax code.

But it will be hard for Congress to do that when people like Rand Paul is in there cheering for Apple and criticizing Congress for bringing it up. If they didn't make Apple's dishonesty obvious to everyone, would anyone even know it was going on? Would anything be done?

I have no problem with Apple's tax avoidance srtratagy being made known to the entire country. It is things like this that causes change. As for Rand, he is running for president, and is looking for any opportunity that he can get to get press coverage. If the Right wants to continue their losing streak of backing big business at the expense of middle class America, then who am I to blow against the wind?

 

[bodecea]

I have nothing but disdain for Apple's tax evasion.

You may...but they have broken no laws.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Perhaps if our government made it more favorable for businesses to operate here, maybe they wouldn't need to work hard to avoid ridiculous taxes on their products and services! You know, bring all of those jobs BACK HERE TO AMERICA!?!

 

[ScienceRocks]

We should be encouraging these corporations to remain within America. They produce millions of jobs and create great innovation.

 

[hazlnut]

I have nothing but disdain for Apple's tax evasion.

Right? Who in their right mind would use our own tax laws to legally keep more of the money they've earned?

How much extra money do you send to the IRS every year, Lakhota?

More than you make in 5 years.

(that's me)

 

[TemplarKormac]

I have nothing but disdain for Apple's tax evasion.

Right? Who in their right mind would use our own tax laws to legally keep more of the money they've earned?

How much extra money do you send to the IRS every year, Lakhota?

More than you make in 5 years.

(that's me)

Is George Soros a buddy of yours?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Innovation through free markets may one day could cure cancer, heart disease and do more for humanity as it has for the past 200 years.


Let's support capitalism and free markets.

 

[georgephillip]

Innovation through free markets may one day could cure cancer, heart disease and do more for humanity as it has for the past 200 years.


Let's support capitalism and free markets.

How are you defining "free"?
Do you mean the freedom that capitalism has brought to Uganda and Kazakhstan?

"The recovery that officially began in mid-2009 hasn’t arrived in most Americans’ paychecks. In 2010, the top 1 percent of U.S. families captured as much as 93 percent of the nation’s income growth, according to a March paper by Emmanuel Saez, a University of California at Berkeley economist who studied Internal Revenue Service data..."

"The earnings gap between rich and poor Americans was the widest in more than four decades in 2011, Census data show, surpassing income inequality previously reported in Uganda and Kazakhstan.

"The notion that each generation does better than the last -- one aspect of the American Dream -- has been challenged by evidence that average family incomes fell last decade for the first time since World War II."

Top 1% Got 93% of Income Growth as Rich-Poor Gap Widened - Bloomberg

The richest 1% of US families haven't performed 93% of US production since mid-2009.
They've hired lobbyists to write tax and trade policies that both major parties sign off on.
Not only is there no "free" in that bipartisan scenario, there really isn't any "market" either.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I have nothing but disdain for Apple's tax evasion.

Right? Who in their right mind would use our own tax laws to legally keep more of the money they've earned?

How much extra money do you send to the IRS every year, Lakhota?

Since it's legal its all good says the right.

So if some 40 yr old wants to bang a 16 year old. No one is allowed to voice any opinion because its legal in that state. Laws, the right pretends, makes everything acceptable....

...except abortion and medical marijuana

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I have nothing but disdain for Apple's tax evasion.

It isn't tax evasion you numbskull.... it's called tax avoidance, and it is perfectly legal.

Grow up.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I have nothing but disdain for Apple's tax evasion.

Right? Who in their right mind would use our own tax laws to legally keep more of the money they've earned?

How much extra money do you send to the IRS every year, Lakhota?

Since it's legal its all good says the right.

So if some 40 yr old wants to bang a 16 year old. No one is allowed to voice any opinion because its legal in that state. Laws, the right pretends, makes everything acceptable....

...except abortion and medical marijuana

So, you equate a corporate tax strategy with 40 year-olds banging 16 year-olds?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Right? Who in their right mind would use our own tax laws to legally keep more of the money they've earned?

How much extra money do you send to the IRS every year, Lakhota?

Since it's legal its all good says the right.

So if some 40 yr old wants to bang a 16 year old. No one is allowed to voice any opinion because its legal in that state. Laws, the right pretends, makes everything acceptable....

...except abortion and medical marijuana

So, you equate a corporate tax strategy with 40 year-olds banging 16 year-olds?

So you have no point and ask a rhetorical question

 

[FA_Q2]

I have nothing but disdain for Apple's tax evasion.

Right? Who in their right mind would use our own tax laws to legally keep more of the money they've earned?

How much extra money do you send to the IRS every year, Lakhota?

Since it's legal its all good says the right.

So if some 40 yr old wants to bang a 16 year old. No one is allowed to voice any opinion because its legal in that state. Laws, the right pretends, makes everything acceptable....

...except abortion and medical marijuana

Bullshit. The leftists here are the ones always trumpeting ‘its legal’ as Obama gets caught in scandal after scandal. The right on the other hand is the one that is demanding that the law be changed. For years on this board many of us have pushed flat tax and tax reform all the while being called kooks by the left. Now, when the reality of this type of tax cade hits you full in the face you don’t even have the balls to go after the proper target: the tax code itself. Apple is not the problem and demanding that they are is pathetic. The lobbyists are not even the problem, special interests will ALWAYS exist. The problem is that people just like you have advocated for congress to have the power to dole out special tax provisions for their friends be it in green energy, education or any other ‘feel good’ project.

You were fooling yourself if you really believed that all those tax favors were for a cause. They are payoffs and handouts and letting congress give them is all but demanding that they sell off those favors to the highest bidder.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Right? Who in their right mind would use our own tax laws to legally keep more of the money they've earned?

How much extra money do you send to the IRS every year, Lakhota?

Since it's legal its all good says the right.

So if some 40 yr old wants to bang a 16 year old. No one is allowed to voice any opinion because its legal in that state. Laws, the right pretends, makes everything acceptable....

...except abortion and medical marijuana

Bullshit. The leftists here are the ones always trumpeting ‘its legal’ as Obama gets caught in scandal after scandal. The right on the other hand is the one that is demanding that the law be changed. For years on this board many of us have pushed flat tax and tax reform all the while being called kooks by the left. Now, when the reality of this type of tax cade hits you full in the face you don’t even have the balls to go after the proper target: the tax code itself. Apple is not the problem and demanding that they are is pathetic. The lobbyists are not even the problem, special interests will ALWAYS exist. The problem is that people just like you have advocated for congress to have the power to dole out special tax provisions for their friends be it in green energy, education or any other ‘feel good’ project.

You were fooling yourself if you really believed that all those tax favors were for a cause. They are payoffs and handouts and letting congress give them is all but demanding that they sell off those favors to the highest bidder.

Hey dummy, Were talking about Apple and Taxes.

 

[midcan5]

Edit: This is in wrong place but I'll leave it as it touches on topic. mc5

I just finished re-reading Galbraith's 'Crash of 1929' and am always amazed that the same dumb ideas (laissez faire fantasyland) still exist. Libertarianism is among the dumbest idea out there, and yet because of its self-centered narcissistic approach and apologetic excuse for corporate greed and inequality it remains a favorite of the morally and socially brain dead. Interesting stuff below if you have time.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/189696-libertarian-flame.html

"The most fundamental problem with libertarianism is very simple: freedom, though a good thing, is simply not the only good thing in life. Simple physical security, which even a prisoner can possess, is not freedom, but one cannot live without it. Prosperity is connected to freedom, in that it makes us free to consume, but it is not the same thing, in that one can be rich but as unfree as a Victorian tycoon's wife. A family is in fact one of the least free things imaginable, as the emotional satisfactions of it derive from relations that we are either born into without choice or, once they are chosen, entail obligations that we cannot walk away from with ease or justice. But security, prosperity, and family are in fact the bulk of happiness for most real people and the principal issues that concern governments." Robert Locke The American Conservative -- Marxism of the Right

"Something is profoundly wrong with the way we live today. For thirty years we have made a virtue out of the pursuit of material self-interest: indeed, this very pursuit now constitutes whatever remains of our sense of collective purpose. We know what things cost but have no idea what they are worth. We no longer ask of a judicial ruling or a legislative act: is it good? Is it fair? Is it just? Is it right? Will it help bring about a better society or a better world? Those used to be the political questions, even if they invited no easy answers. We must learn once again to pose them." Tony Judt 'Ill Fares the Land'

"Libertarian solutions favored by the political right have contributed even more directly to the erosion of social responsibilities and valued forms of communal life, particularly in the UK and the US. Far from producing beneficial communal consequences, the invisible hand of unregulated free-market capitalism undermines the family (e.g., few corporations provide enough leave to parents of newborn children), disrupts local communities (e.g., following plant closings or the shifting of corporate headquarters), and corrupts the political process (e.g., US politicians are often dependent on economic interest groups for their political survival, with the consequence that they no longer represent the community at large). Moreover, the valorization of greed in the Thatcher/Reagan era justified the extension of instrumental considerations governing relationships in the marketplace into spheres previously informed by a sense of uncalculated reciprocity and civil obligation. This trend has been reinforced by increasing globalization, which pressures states into conforming to the dictates of the international marketplace." Daniel Bell in Communitarianism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Excellent piece here: Why is libertarianism wrong?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/50564-libertarianism-in-a-nutshell-ii.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean...hich-is-the-shorter-distance.html#post5830256

 

[Sallow]

Perhaps if our government made it more favorable for businesses to operate here, maybe they wouldn't need to work hard to avoid ridiculous taxes on their products and services! You know, bring all of those jobs BACK HERE TO AMERICA!?!

Yes..because the best highway and bridges infrastructure in the world isn't favorable to business.

The 90% literacy rate aren't favorable to business.

The trusted markets and justice system aren't favorable to business.

The massive amounts of well paid consumers aren't favorable to business.

The Sea and Air Ports aren't favorable to business.

The government technological research that is given away to businesses like Apple isn't favorable to business.

The solid law enforcement and fire fighting departments aren't favorable to business.

The grants and low interest loans available to businesses aren't favorable to business.

The US must also put all the cost of this stuff on the middle class..and take no revenue to support all these goodies from businesses.

Because it's not favorable.

 

[FA_Q2]

Since it's legal its all good says the right.

So if some 40 yr old wants to bang a 16 year old. No one is allowed to voice any opinion because its legal in that state. Laws, the right pretends, makes everything acceptable....

...except abortion and medical marijuana

Bullshit. The leftists here are the ones always trumpeting ‘its legal’ as Obama gets caught in scandal after scandal. The right on the other hand is the one that is demanding that the law be changed. For years on this board many of us have pushed flat tax and tax reform all the while being called kooks by the left. Now, when the reality of this type of tax cade hits you full in the face you don’t even have the balls to go after the proper target: the tax code itself. Apple is not the problem and demanding that they are is pathetic. The lobbyists are not even the problem, special interests will ALWAYS exist. The problem is that people just like you have advocated for congress to have the power to dole out special tax provisions for their friends be it in green energy, education or any other ‘feel good’ project.

You were fooling yourself if you really believed that all those tax favors were for a cause. They are payoffs and handouts and letting congress give them is all but demanding that they sell off those favors to the highest bidder.

Hey dummy, Were talking about Apple and Taxes.

Hey ignorant partisan hack, I related it all to Apple and taxes but I doubt you had enough intelligence to notice. Try again, or don’t. It really does not matter because you don’t really bother with coherent ideas here.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Perhaps if our government made it more favorable for businesses to operate here, maybe they wouldn't need to work hard to avoid ridiculous taxes on their products and services! You know, bring all of those jobs BACK HERE TO AMERICA!?!

Yes..because the best highway and bridges infrastructure in the world isn't favorable to business.

The 90% literacy rate aren't favorable to business.

The trusted markets and justice system aren't favorable to business.

The massive amounts of well paid consumers aren't favorable to business.

The Sea and Air Ports aren't favorable to business.

The government technological research that is given away to businesses like Apple isn't favorable to business.

The solid law enforcement and fire fighting departments aren't favorable to business.

The grants and low interest loans available to businesses aren't favorable to business.

The US must also put all the cost of this stuff on the middle class..and take no revenue to support all these goodies from businesses.

Because it's not favorable.

We need to compete with the Overseas job market

 

[mmmjvpssm]

By Edward Hudgins

May 24, 2013 -- Apple Inc. is under attack by politicians for “avoiding” paying $44 billion in American corporate taxes.

Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich) complained about tax “gimmicks” and Apple’s “unfair behavior,” saying “loopholes in our tax laws and regulations allow many companies … to shift enormous amounts of income from this country to other countries.” Making the whining bipartisan, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz) complained that Apple “is one of the largest corporate tax avoiders.”

But in fact it's the politicians who deserve condemnation, not Apple.

First, as Apple CEO Tim Cook pointed out in Congressional testimony, his company paid all the corporate taxes it legally owed—estimated to be around $6 billion. It broke no law.

Second, anyone with a proper sense of self-worth seeks to pay no more taxes than they legally owe. If that’s “tax avoidance,” everyone does it and should do it. What kind idiot would Cook be if he said to his shareholders “Gee guys, let’s fork over tens of billions more to the feds above and beyond what we’re required to do”?

Third, if Apple had shoveled more of its cash into the federal government’s insatiable maw, this would have meant some combination of higher prices for Apple consumers, less Apple investment in developing cool new products, lower prices for Apple stock (check your portfolio!), and less profits for the individuals who earned it. Note: none of those “earning it” are members of Congress.

Fourth, the huge, arcane, incomprehensible tax code is a political document. Every deduction is there because Congress put it into law, whether it’s for oil companies purchasing drilling equipment or Green consumers purchasing Chevy Volts. Yes, it’s a mess. But…

Fifth, the reason the tax code is a mess is that political power is the coin of the realm. Few companies can stay “above politics” and survive. They always must watch for competitors who try to use the tax code or regulations to screw them. So every interest group—every business—tries to influence Congress to get benefits or at least protections worked into the law—and the politicians oblige. The result is a tangled, corrupt, crony-capitalist mess.

Conclusion: Apple was not trying to screw anyone, just trying to use every legal means to keep from being looted.

Neither Apple nor any enterprise or individual needs to justify why they should keep their own money. The government must justify why it should take it away since the only legitimate purpose of government is to protect our lives, liberty and—yes!—property. Most government activities nowadays are by no rational standard authorized by the Constitution. Most tax money is spent by political elites who arrogantly presume to run our lives.

So let’s praise Apple both for being one of the world’s most productive companies and for keeping its tax bill low. And let’s condemn politicians who try to cripple the productive while demanding that the productive turn over more of the fruits of their productive efforts to politicians to be wasted.

How about the inner city single mom making minimum wage who transfers her bank account into a trusted friends name before applying for welfare? The same apply there or does this hey it's legal so it's all good mentality only apply to the rich?

 

[Sallow]

Perhaps if our government made it more favorable for businesses to operate here, maybe they wouldn't need to work hard to avoid ridiculous taxes on their products and services! You know, bring all of those jobs BACK HERE TO AMERICA!?!

Yes..because the best highway and bridges infrastructure in the world isn't favorable to business.

The 90% literacy rate aren't favorable to business.

The trusted markets and justice system aren't favorable to business.

The massive amounts of well paid consumers aren't favorable to business.

The Sea and Air Ports aren't favorable to business.

The government technological research that is given away to businesses like Apple isn't favorable to business.

The solid law enforcement and fire fighting departments aren't favorable to business.

The grants and low interest loans available to businesses aren't favorable to business.

The US must also put all the cost of this stuff on the middle class..and take no revenue to support all these goodies from businesses.

Because it's not favorable.

We need to compete with the Overseas job market

Yup.

The good ol' days..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire