In this thread: I destroy liberal Ideology by playing the part of a liberal

[theDoctorisIn]

/beginLiberalism

I am against swimming. It's gross, unhealthy, and unnatural. If humans were meant to swim, whether in pools, oceans, or lakes, we would have fins.

Swimming goes against my personal, abstract beliefs. Therefore, I will stop at nothing until swimming is banned for everyone. I also believe the government should stay out of our lives and that we own our own body--unless there is something I don't like, in which case I want tyranny of the majority to push for government force to make it illegal. I'm better than you if you think otherwise.

/end being a liberal

You know, I've never heard a "liberal" say anything like that.

But it certainly looks like the standard conservative opinion on gay marriage.

Reminds me a hell of a lot about the liberal attack on smoking in bars and hell... even your own homes.

Immie

Not this liberal. I smoke at least a pack a day.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Listen, no one’s saying that we shouldn’t improve ourselves, and teach out kids strong morals and how to live a good and decent life.

What this argument specifically comes down to:

1.) Who’s responsibility is it to micro-manage our personal morals, is it the individual (empowerment) or the government (nanny-state/fear)?
2.) By making drugs illegal (or any other sorts of non rights infringing activities), are we actually doing much more harm to society than good?

As long as drugs are illegal, there will be trafficking and horrible negative societal consequences. The only way to get rid of it is to legalize the drugs (think about the end of prohibition).

Also think about our incarceration problem. If a non-violent, intelligent human being gets caught selling marijuana and thrown in jail, do you think there’s a greater chance he/she will be a more productive member of society when released, or less? By all means, incarcerate the murders, rapists, pedophiles, ect, but is it really worth our resources to spend so much time policing people who are not infringing on anyone else’s personal rights except for their own? I don’t think so…

1. it is the right of individuals to set societal standards...via the vote...

2. drugs today are basically "legal".....in the sense that you can pretty much get them whenever you like.....making them legal on paper won't change much...

so hows that working....? myself i see a lot of problems today caused by drugs....society is being harmed by their use....

if government actually stopped the trafficking the incarceration problem would go away...

1. The tyranny of Democracy! The 51% votes to kill the 49%. You okay with that?

2. There is a profit motive to arrest non-violent pot smokers and put them in tax payer funded private prisons.

Society is being harmed more by the laws rather than the behavior the laws were meant to curb.

1. duh....America is a representative republic...

2. more reason to crack down on the traffickers....throw away the key and you will find a whole lot less "non-violent" pot smokers engaging in the business...

 

[ScreamingEagle]

If the children are abused by those druggies, the druggies should be punished.

Again we can't legislate people into being good parents. I doubt keeping the Drug War going is making bad parents into good ones.

Edit: And keep in mind screaming, in order for your argument to be consistent you have to argue for the criminalization of alcohol.

we have the right to vote for or against alcohol or drugs....

just like we can vote for or against marriage or gay marriage....

that's the American way...

Voting away rights or liberties is the Iranian way.

you on a toot right now...?

 

[JohnLocke1799]

Hilarious. "Liberal ideology" is as diverse as the Democratic party's membership.

The Republican Party ideology, which is 90% white, is just as diverse as their party.

I've noticed Liberals measure diversity by skin color, sex and sexual deviancy NOT ideology.

 

[Dr.Drock]

we have the right to vote for or against alcohol or drugs....

just like we can vote for or against marriage or gay marriage....

that's the American way...

Voting away rights or liberties is the Iranian way.

you on a toot right now...?

Uh, no, but one of the most important aspects of the founding of this country was minority rights and liberties so that tyranny of the majority wouldn't prevail.

Do you think the liberty of drinking alcohol should be stripped because addiction to alcohol makes parents less able to raise children properly?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

1. it is the right of individuals to set societal standards...via the vote...

2. drugs today are basically "legal".....in the sense that you can pretty much get them whenever you like.....making them legal on paper won't change much...

so hows that working....? myself i see a lot of problems today caused by drugs....society is being harmed by their use....

if government actually stopped the trafficking the incarceration problem would go away...

1. The tyranny of Democracy! The 51% votes to kill the 49%. You okay with that?

2. There is a profit motive to arrest non-violent pot smokers and put them in tax payer funded private prisons.

Society is being harmed more by the laws rather than the behavior the laws were meant to curb.

1. duh....America is a representative republic...

Exactly. Not a "Democracy".

Here in America, we don't vote on laws. We elect a government that does. The "individual" has no "right" to decide social issues by vote.

2. more reason to crack down on the traffickers....throw away the key and you will find a whole lot less "non-violent" pot smokers engaging in the business...

So, the answer to the drug war is to throw more money at it?

 

[JohnLocke1799]

Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act.

More Republicans voted for the CRA than Democrats. But I know that facts do not matter to Liberals.

 

[BlindBoo]

1. it is the right of individuals to set societal standards...via the vote...

2. drugs today are basically "legal".....in the sense that you can pretty much get them whenever you like.....making them legal on paper won't change much...

so hows that working....? myself i see a lot of problems today caused by drugs....society is being harmed by their use....

if government actually stopped the trafficking the incarceration problem would go away...

Can't stop the trafficking, too much money in it. You can only change those who benefit from trafficking. Right now drug lords, terrorists, gang bangers, thugs are the ones benefitting from trafficking, where that could be changed to american farmers and businesses.

Yes drugs are very much available, which is evidence of the failure of the War on (some) Drugs.

It is not the right of the majority to vote away the liberties of the minority.

what about our rights to be free of druggers infecting our society....?

It was tried with the 18th amendment but was repelled 16 years later. Now your nanny state is taking away the rights of citizens of it without amendments. It's corrupt as hell.

 

[Immanuel]

other than what may happen behind closed doors.....which actions don't have any effect on others.....?

I should have emphasized the word infringes on the rights of others. If an action infringes on the personal rights of another non-consenting individual, than it should be prohibited. This includes things like murder & rape.

But the act of smoking marijuana does not infringe on the rights of anyone else, therefore it should be made legal.

I think this is libertarian ideology. Not 100% sure though. What objections do you have to this sort of thinking?

effect.....infringe......tomayto.....tomato.....

the act of smoking marijuana does have effects/infringes on the rights of others......for example a dude who's spaced out driving a car and hits someone is doing just that....

And you don't think that there are not already laws that would make it illegal to drive under the influence of MJ if MJ were legal?

I don't and wouldn't smoke dope if it were legal. I think it is time to stop this silly battle to put every dope smoker behind bars and fill up our prison capacity.

Immie

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Voting away rights or liberties is the Iranian way.

you on a toot right now...?

Uh, no, but one of the most important aspects of the founding of this country was minority rights and liberties so that tyranny of the majority wouldn't prevail.

Do you think the liberty of drinking alcohol should be stripped because addiction to alcohol makes parents less able to raise children properly?

no.....because it's already been shown not to work....

 

[BlindBoo]

If the children are abused by those druggies, the druggies should be punished.

Again we can't legislate people into being good parents. I doubt keeping the Drug War going is making bad parents into good ones.

Edit: And keep in mind screaming, in order for your argument to be consistent you have to argue for the criminalization of alcohol.

we have the right to vote for or against alcohol or drugs....

just like we can vote for or against marriage or gay marriage....

that's the American way...

Voting away rights or liberties is the Iranian way.

Interesting fact I saw yesterday on TYT's. Louisana incarcerates 3 times the amount of it's population than does Iran! Their prison industry is doing just fine. All the Sherrifs have fine new partol cars and all the latest tech gadgets, well the ones that have the for profit prisons in town anyway.

 

[Immanuel]

bs...

just because Strom Thurmon and some others joined the GOP because Johnson signed the Civil Rights Bill of 1964 (no thanks to Democrats).... all of a sudden the GOP was "chock full" of racists.....?

the truth of the matter is that after Civil Rights passed a new generation of southerners emerged to join the GOP....

the Democrats still had plenty of racist bigots like George Wallace to lead the way....

If you look at the districts that were run by Democrats at that point, they are almost all now Republican.

It doesn't matter that the politicians didn't switch parties. That's not the point. They weren't acting on their own, they were representing their constituencies, which is their job, of course.

Besides those politicians are pretty much all dead now anyway.

It's the people they represent that matter. They voted in new people to represent their bigoted points of view, and those representatives are almost all REPUBLICAN.

That's why Republicans almost always win the south nowadays.

Therefore, the new generation of southern bigots is mainly Republican.

wrong.....after Civil Rights passed it was the bigoted Democrats who enslaved the blacks all over again....

many southern whites "evolved" after 1964 and more joined the Republican Party.....like Newt Gingrich in Georgia for example...

I thought you knew this by now.

Progressive Democrats "evolve".

Progressive Republicans "flip-flop".

It has been all the talk of the town over the last couple of weeks: Obama evolved, Romney flip-flopped.

Understand now?

Immie

 

[Dr.Drock]

you on a toot right now...?

Uh, no, but one of the most important aspects of the founding of this country was minority rights and liberties so that tyranny of the majority wouldn't prevail.

Do you think the liberty of drinking alcohol should be stripped because addiction to alcohol makes parents less able to raise children properly?

no.....because it's already been shown not to work....

Nor has the drug war.....................

 

[JohnLocke1799]

More proof that cons don't even understand what liberals stand for.

That's easy: using populism, class-warfare and divide and conquer demographic strategies for the accumulation of power.

 

[BlindBoo]

You know, I've never heard a "liberal" say anything like that.

But it certainly looks like the standard conservative opinion on gay marriage.

Reminds me a hell of a lot about the liberal attack on smoking in bars and hell... even your own homes.

Immie

Not this liberal. I smoke at least a pack a day.

They like to claim that every nanny statist idea is liberal. (Well at least when there is a Democrat in the WH)

 

[JohnLocke1799]

No....while libertarians have some good conservative ideas.....libertarian ideology is at its roots a bastardized form of anarchy.....

Untrue. Libertarianism supports ONLY the minimum amount of government TO PREVENT anarchy.

 

[Firehorse]

<lib>

Pools represent the very worth of republician behavior

1) when you fill a pool, it almost single handedly destroys water conversation efforts of my beloved leftist

2) adding chlorine to the water embodies the very essence of the rights 'dirty water policies'

3) Pools are the main cause of childhood drownings, it's no wonder the pubs love them so.

4) swimming is ultimately self destructive as those that engage in the activity are exposing themselves to risk of skin cancer

5) when emptied, the pool water causes a mini flood basin that drowns harms the local indigenous life forms

6) the cloinated water dumped from the pool may as well be considered a biohazard spill requiring appropriately train people to clean up

7) digging up the ground for unground pools destroys the natural habitat of the increasingly threatened north American earth worm

8) the above ground pools interfer in the natural movement patterns of several indangered species such as ants and beetles

9) large areas of standing water are home to many mosquito born ailments and should be banned ... Or

10) as large areas of standing water are home to rare and indangered mosquito varieties ... They should be fenced off and declared as wildlife refuges and protected from human interference

/ lib

 

[BlindBoo]

1. it is the right of individuals to set societal standards...via the vote...

2. drugs today are basically "legal".....in the sense that you can pretty much get them whenever you like.....making them legal on paper won't change much...

so hows that working....? myself i see a lot of problems today caused by drugs....society is being harmed by their use....

if government actually stopped the trafficking the incarceration problem would go away...

1. The tyranny of Democracy! The 51% votes to kill the 49%. You okay with that?

2. There is a profit motive to arrest non-violent pot smokers and put them in tax payer funded private prisons.

Society is being harmed more by the laws rather than the behavior the laws were meant to curb.

1. duh....America is a representative republic...

2. more reason to crack down on the traffickers....throw away the key and you will find a whole lot less "non-violent" pot smokers engaging in the business...

1. Excatly why the individual does not have the right to set societal standards via the vote!

2. Why are you anti business? Hemp should be a legal crop for farmers.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eetrxNlR-M]Neil Young - Homegrown (Live at Farm Aid 1986) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ScreamingEagle]

we have the right to vote for or against alcohol or drugs....

just like we can vote for or against marriage or gay marriage....

that's the American way...

Voting away rights or liberties is the Iranian way.

Interesting fact I saw yesterday on TYT's. Louisana incarcerates 3 times the amount of it's population than does Iran! Their prison industry is doing just fine. All the Sherrifs have fine new partol cars and all the latest tech gadgets, well the ones that have the for profit prisons in town anyway.

which just goes to show harsher penalties get results....

in Iran there is less prison industry because they impose the death penalty for all sorts of things....

for example.....a "hardened drinker" faces the death penalty.....a 22yo who drank 4 times is the "hardened and incorrigible drinker".

Iran - 'Hardened Drinker' Faces Death Penalty - Drugs Forum

 

[Liability]

No....while libertarians have some good conservative ideas.....libertarian ideology is at its roots a bastardized form of anarchy.....

Untrue. Libertarianism supports ONLY the minimum amount of government TO PREVENT anarchy.

Horse shit.