Is Bowe Bergdahl a disgrace to the Uniform he wore?

[shart_attack]

There is no such thing as the presumption of innocence in an American military trial, moron.

Really? Then why is the judge at a court martial, under the UCMJ, required to give these instructions to the jury or whatever panel decides the guilt or innocence of the accused?

(5)
A charge that—
(A)
The accused must be presumed to be innocent until the accused’s guilt is established by legal and competent evidence beyond reasonable doubt;
(B)
In the case being considered, if there is a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the accused, the doubt must be resolved in favor of the accused and the accused must be acquitted;

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/law/mcm.pdf

Page 170

I don't think "sharkie" knows about the UCMJ and the military.

Says a dishonorably-discharged deserter who doesn't know much about anything.

 

[Mustang]

Bergdahl should be courtmartialed. He may have finished his shift but that did not mean that he could do whatever he wanted. He abandoned his duty post on the battlefield. The post was a forward operating base.

From the emails sent to his parents before he left it is clear that he intended to desert. The men serving with him know he deserted. From the letters sent home after desertion he had no regrets about his desertion.

Put him on trial in a military court and give him an appropriate punishment.

His duty post was on the battlefield? You guys are funny when you try to sound like you have any clue regarding what you're talking about.

As for highlighted sentence, could you answer a few questions for me? How could Pvt Bergdahl send letters home after he's no longer at his unit? ASSUMING the letters were either written beforehand (or maybe even written by someone else) how could he (or someone else) express a lack of regret for something he had yet to do. Or, in the case of letters written by someone else, how would they know he had no regrets if they had no contact with him?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Is Bowe Bergdahl a disgrace to the Uniform he wore?

An investigation, not a civilian witch hunt, will determine that.

 

[eagle1462010]

Is Bowe Bergdahl a disgrace to the Uniform he wore?

This is is just a poll thread to see where people stand by the numbers.

the Military hasn't called him a disgrace as of yet, why would you need a poll from partisan hacks to see where Bowe stands in the mind of the country ?

This is a public board. I want to know where people stand on this site. It's that simple.

Soldiers from his unit have spoken up against him. That to me holds a lot of weight. I would have trouble with this trade had it been Audie Murphy. Because of the 5 released.

 

[eagle1462010]

No.

Actually, it's American conservatives who don't know all the facts and have condemned Sgt Bergdahl without even giving him a chance to tell his story who are the disgrace. They're modern-day anti-American conservatives who are more likely to take the word of the Taliban than they are to give an American POW the benefit of the doubt.

Would conservatives of the 1970s and 80s be taking this kind of position against an American soldier if the Soviet Union was releasing propaganda statements against an American soldier? I don't think so. How about conservatives of the 1940s when America was fighting Nazis and the Empire of Japan? Would THOSE conservatives take the word of the propaganda apparatus of those totalitarian regimes? I think not. But today is different.

Why? Because it gives them an opportunity to assail a commander-in-chief who's a president not of their choosing. That's why.

Ever hear of E Pluribus Unum? It means "Out of many, ONE! It doesn't just mean people from many countries make the one country that is America. It implies that we, conservatives and liberals, are ALL Americans. Modern-day American conservatives no longer believe that. If you think I'm wrong, recall former Republican VP candidate, Sarah Palin. When she was campaigning for office in 2008, when she went to certain parts of the country which were/are more conservative politically than other parts of the country, Palin referred to these areas as the REAL America. Really, Sarah? I don't remember seeing degrees of citizenship in the US Constitution anywhere. Americans who don't share your views are JUST as American as you are, Sarah. Maybe more so considering most Americans don't flirt with a separatist political party like the Alaskan Independence Party like Sarah's husband, Todd, did who was a member of the AIP from 1995 until 2002.

The modern-day anti-American attitudes and sentiments of the conservative movement is shameful and I call on ALL Americans to renounce that unpatriotic movement.

Let's see, Mustangs opinion ensconced in anti conservative rant......or the statements of everyone he serve with CONFIRMING he walked away from his post....


Gosh this is a tough choice....

Just because Pvt Bergdahl walked OFF his post after his duty in the literally sense of walking away from his post doesn't mean that he deserted his post in the figurative sense of walking away from his post. It's that kind of subtle word choice that can be both literally true but also completely misleading without knowing the context in which it happened and how Pvt Bergdahl came to be captured. But you're attitude is exactly what I'm referring to when I talk about the modern-day anti-American attitude of the conservative movement. Since you've never seen Bergdahl participating in a propaganda video like some POWs did during the Vietnam War, one would think you would accord him at least as much respect as the former American POWs from the Vietnam War received in light of the fact that they were tortured and subjected to harsh living conditions. But at least they had each other. Bergdahl was alone. Now he comes back to a country where many of his harshest critics are conservative Americans who've sat out the war? People like that who have a political agenda should be trusted to define patriotism for the rest of us? Not on your life. Oh, wait, let me guess! Your life and the lives of the conservative radio hosts who are assailing Sgt Bergdahl were never at risk at any point in time during all the years that Sgt Bergdahl was a POW. How do you guys live with yourselves.

As for SOME of the men who formerly served with Pvt Bergdahl, I suggest that they don't have any idea what happened to Bergdahl after he walked off his post because they weren't with him. Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me that they engaged in speculation. Having served myself, I know a little bit about scuttlebutt in the military because it's rampant at every duty station. But those men are NOW being exploited and used by the very same anti-American conservatives who don't care about THEIR service any more than they care about Sgt Bergdahl. They're all pawns as far as conservatives are concerned, and those men would find themselves subjected to similar attacks if and when they ever went on the record to change their stories.

Face it. Your splitting hairs to defend Obama's actions. I'm a vet, and we don't stand with deserters or even AWOL personnel. He left his post period. He left it in a combat zone, and men went out to rescue him and died. To me, that is a disgrace to the uniform.

You swear an oath when you join. He violated that oath, and doesn't deserve my respect. He broke the oath and trust of his fellow soldiers, and they are slamming him for it. Why? Because he is a deserter.

You twist that to the BS that we are the problem and not the man who broke the faith of serving in the military.

 

[eagle1462010]

Is Bowe Bergdahl a disgrace to the Uniform he wore?

An investigation, not a civilian witch hunt, will determine that.

Will it? We'll see about that.

Maybe they'll Court Martial him. Maybe that court will be selective because the CNC traded 5 hardcore Taliban for him. In other words.........MICKEY MOUSE.

I don't expect anything other than a OTH, admin discharge at the end of this. Via unfit for duty because he's mental. We shall see.

 

[eagle1462010]

No one wants to wait for the Article 32 Hearing results?

This is a hot topic because Obama released 5 high level Taliban for this Deserter. He broke the laws passed by Congress to prevent this.

So we just released some bad guys. I'd like to know for what. And it looks to me like a Deserter. That isn't a good deal.

He left his post. Period. His fellow soldiers are throwing him under a Greyhound bus. So my opinion is he is a deserter.

As far as the Article 32 they may White Wash it with a Kangaroo Court because of Obama's decision.

So...you are already coming up with excuses.....

LOL

I'm coming up with potential outcomes on an opinionated board.

Do you think they should have traded those 5 for a man who deserted his post in the combat zone....................

 

[JakeStarkey]

Is Bowe Bergdahl a disgrace to the Uniform he wore?

An investigation, not a civilian witch hunt, will determine that.

Will it? We'll see about that.

Maybe they'll Court Martial him. Maybe that court will be selective because the CNC traded 5 hardcore Taliban for him. In other words.........MICKEY MOUSE.

I don't expect anything other than a OTH, admin discharge at the end of this. Via unfit for duty because he's mental. We shall see.

I did not like that 151 Bush releases returned to the fight either.

I will wait for the investigation.

He may come out with an Honorable and a 100% medical/mental.

Time will tell.

 

[JoeB131]

Considering every soldier he served with has confirmed that he walked off of his post yes.

This would be the unit full of total screwups that was reprimanded by higher command repeatedly, including the Sergeant who got an other than honorable discharge?

Here's the problem with Bergdahl. In order to keep the wars going after everyone realized they were really bad ideas, Bush and his cronies decided to lower the standards to get into the army.

Under normal circumstances, Bergdahl never should have made it past a recruiter. The fact he was discharged from the Coast Guard during basic training for psychological reasons should have been good enough.

But by 2008, the Army was so desperate for manpower that it was granting waivers for one out of five new recruits.

 

[Camp]

History will not be kind to his platoon.

 

[Antares]

Bergdahl should be courtmartialed. He may have finished his shift but that did not mean that he could do whatever he wanted. He abandoned his duty post on the battlefield. The post was a forward operating base.

From the emails sent to his parents before he left it is clear that he intended to desert. The men serving with him know he deserted. From the letters sent home after desertion he had no regrets about his desertion.

Put him on trial in a military court and give him an appropriate punishment.

His duty post was on the battlefield? You guys are funny when you try to sound like you have any clue regarding what you're talking about.

As for highlighted sentence, could you answer a few questions for me? How could Pvt Bergdahl send letters home after he's no longer at his unit? ASSUMING the letters were either written beforehand (or maybe even written by someone else) how could he (or someone else) express a lack of regret for something he had yet to do. Or, in the case of letters written by someone else, how would they know he had no regrets if they had no contact with him?

Look moron, his post was on an FOB.

He was standing a post and left it AND the base.

You can defend him all you want but it makes you look stupid.

 

[Antares]

Considering every soldier he served with has confirmed that he walked off of his post yes.

This would be the unit full of total screwups that was reprimanded by higher command repeatedly, including the Sergeant who got an other than honorable discharge?

Here's the problem with Bergdahl. In order to keep the wars going after everyone realized they were really bad ideas, Bush and his cronies decided to lower the standards to get into the army.

Under normal circumstances, Bergdahl never should have made it past a recruiter. The fact he was discharged from the Coast Guard during basic training for psychological reasons should have been good enough.

But by 2008, the Army was so desperate for manpower that it was granting waivers for one out of five new recruits.

Poor Joe,how sad that the admin must now denigrate those who did NOT desert their post on an FOB, those that did their job and finished what they were asked to do.

 

[daveman]

Is Bowe Bergdahl a disgrace to the Uniform he wore?

An investigation, not a civilian witch hunt, will determine that.

In 2010, the Pentagon already concluded he walked away voluntarily.

U.S. concluded in 2010 that Bergdahl walked away

 

[deltex1]

The real "shame" here is how quickly conservatives turn on US troops.

Pat Tillman.
Jessica Lynch.
Tammy Duckworth.
Bowe Bergdhal.

Conservative truly are like scorpions on the backs of frogs.

In what way are those four names equivalent???

 

[Mustang]

Bergdahl should be courtmartialed. He may have finished his shift but that did not mean that he could do whatever he wanted. He abandoned his duty post on the battlefield. The post was a forward operating base.

From the emails sent to his parents before he left it is clear that he intended to desert. The men serving with him know he deserted. From the letters sent home after desertion he had no regrets about his desertion.

Put him on trial in a military court and give him an appropriate punishment.

His duty post was on the battlefield? You guys are funny when you try to sound like you have any clue regarding what you're talking about.

As for highlighted sentence, could you answer a few questions for me? How could Pvt Bergdahl send letters home after he's no longer at his unit? ASSUMING the letters were either written beforehand (or maybe even written by someone else) how could he (or someone else) express a lack of regret for something he had yet to do. Or, in the case of letters written by someone else, how would they know he had no regrets if they had no contact with him?

Look moron, his post was on an FOB.

He was standing a post and left it AND the base.

You can defend him all you want but it makes you look stupid.

Yeah, how dare ANYONE defend a POW who spent 5 years in captivity from being raked over the coals by a bunch of overweight soft armchair patriots who think waving a little American flag and listening to Sean Hannity on the radio makes them great Americans.

YOU are the idiot!

 

[Camp]

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=CQ5KZ0gh2hg]A Few Good Men - Fight for People - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Antares]

His duty post was on the battlefield? You guys are funny when you try to sound like you have any clue regarding what you're talking about.

As for highlighted sentence, could you answer a few questions for me? How could Pvt Bergdahl send letters home after he's no longer at his unit? ASSUMING the letters were either written beforehand (or maybe even written by someone else) how could he (or someone else) express a lack of regret for something he had yet to do. Or, in the case of letters written by someone else, how would they know he had no regrets if they had no contact with him?

Look moron, his post was on an FOB.

He was standing a post and left it AND the base.

You can defend him all you want but it makes you look stupid.

Yeah, how dare ANYONE defend a POW who spent 5 years in captivity from being raked over the coals by a bunch of overweight soft armchair patriots who think waving a little American flag and listening to Sean Hannity on the radio makes them great Americans.

YOU are the idiot!

He left his post, he walked out on his platoon mates.

He did this in a war zone, he deserves no pity.
He made a choice and excuse me for demanding he pay for it.

As for you, by your posts you reveal that not many of us who served, who stood a post and who didn't walk away from it would want to serve with you.

It's obvious you are not to be counted on.

 

[Mustang]

Look moron, his post was on an FOB.

He was standing a post and left it AND the base.

You can defend him all you want but it makes you look stupid.

Yeah, how dare ANYONE defend a POW who spent 5 years in captivity from being raked over the coals by a bunch of overweight soft armchair patriots who think waving a little American flag and listening to Sean Hannity on the radio makes them great Americans.

YOU are the idiot!

He left his post, he walked out on his platoon mates.

He did this in a war zone, he deserves no pity.
He made a choice and excuse me for demanding he pay for it.

As for you, by your posts you reveal that not many of us who served, who stood a post and who didn't walk away from it would want to serve with you.

It's obvious you are not to be counted on.

All we KNOW at this point is that he left his post like he had several times before when he had come back. Only in this last case, he did not return. As a former soldier who severed but never served in combat, I'm not passing judgement on Sgt Bergdahl without knowing all the facts, and that includes hearing his story.

It's also been reported he was captured which should not surprise anyone. Well, obviously you can't return to your post once you've been captured, can you?

I'm also not discounting the possibility that Bergdahl had some psychological/emotional problems which contributed to what happened. All of these factors come into play.

As for me, I sick of these weak mushroom squatters passing judgment on Sgt Bergdahl when most of them don't have a clue how they would behave under daily life and death circumstances.

It would be interesting (as an experiment, of course) to take one of these armchair uber patriots and time how long it would take them to piss their pants after they got caught by the Taliban.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Poor Joe,how sad that the admin must now denigrate those who did NOT desert their post on an FOB, those that did their job and finished what they were asked to do.

Okay, except that the Sergeant who is out there smearing Bergdahl got an Other Than Honorable discharge.

The unit he was in had its leadership disciplined for poor discipline before they lost one of their own.

Isn't the administration doing this. Live by the Swift-boat, die by the Swift-boat.