Is going to college beneficial or is that a lie?

[Unkotare]

I was told by another poster i will not name that too many people go to college. The reasoning is that its all a lie that college teaches you the skills to get a higher paying job.

i went to college and got a degree in my field and secured a higher paying job because of the skills I acquired. Not only did I learn the skills I also received a degree that certified I was qualified for the prerequisites for the job. Before anyone thinks I left something out this is literally all the poster gave me to go on. Anyone agree with the posters premise?

Higher education is always beneficial.

It is not, however, free. Nor should it be. An individual must weigh the cost of the education against the benefit and time committed and make a choice.

The thing here is that YOU don't get to make that choice for anyone except you. I don't get to make that choice for anyone but Me.

This nonsense about kids coming out of college with too much debt is just that. Nonsense. No one held a gun to their head and forced them to go to the most expensive Universities out there.

Last time I checked, 2+2 still equaled 4, and it did so at the local University as well as at Harvard.

If you want that special name attached, then pay for it and accept that the debt when you graduate is going to be massive.


Funny I never hear anyone complain, (at least on the left) about the massive debt every person acquires before they even draw their first breath. That is an involuntary incursion of debt.

College is strictly self inflicted.

But the thing is that it's necessary nowadays to get that degree.

No one's holding a gun to anyone's head - correct - but try getting a well paying job (one that grandpa got and did just fine with without a degree) nowadays without that diploma.

It's unnecessarily mandatory, and it kind of sucks.

And great-great grandpa rode a horse. It worked fine then. It doesn't now. That doesn't "kind of suck," it's just reality.

 

[KevinWestern]

"Has become"? It's always been (partly) that, and there's nothing wrong with that.

There's something wrong with it when it costs folks $60k+ to be a part of this "mandatory screening procedure".

That's what's wrong with it.

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?

If you want a finance job nowadays - as an example - you need to dish out $60k to enter the field. It's mandatory.

40 years ago you could enter the field for free and instead save that 60k for a house or retirement.

Same job.

I think it's valid to be a bit frustrated by that.

 

[Darkwind]

But the thing is that it's necessary nowadays to get that degree.

No one's holding a gun to anyone's head - correct - but try getting a well paying job (one that grandpa got and did just fine with without a degree) nowadays without that diploma.

It's mandatory, and it kind of sucks.

Here is the problem as I see it. People want a high paying job at no personal cost to themselves.

How is that right or acceptable?

If you want the high paying job, then you fill in the requirements to have that job. If that means a college education, then YOU, as and INDIVIDUAL, will have to determine if that job is worth the cost and effort.

Just saying that I want a high paying job is NOT a path to getting one.

My complaint is this; it's unnecessarily mandatory.

Folks in generations past could get by just fine at many jobs that require a degree today, with no degree.

I can have the same job my dad was successful at without college, however now it costs me $60k to enter into the field.

It sucks for my generation, because the lot of us are bogged down with debt.

A degree was not mandatory in finance 40 years ago, and now all of a sudden it is.

I can choose to bypass the degree, but good luck finding yourself anywhere but behind a McDonald's cash register.

It isn't mandatory. You can do something else that does not require the degree.

Apparently, they cannot. It may be that folks in the past, could do a mediocre job and the employer determined they needed more than just getting by, and decided the job requires more education. Or it could be that that process of the job has become so much more complicated that it requires someone who had more critical thinking skills than just rote task management. Who knows. Here is an idea. Perhaps there are still employers out there that don't require the degree. Find them and apply for that job. This still boils down to you want.

Your are bogged down with debt before you draw your first breath of air. You are NOT bogged down with debt because of education. That is a voluntary choice.

Your entire stance revolves around you thinking that your every want and desire should be fulfilled without any cost to yourself.

How is it that you can even think that?

 

[PredFan]

Wrong on all counts.
Some of the stats are because the groups are self selecting. If you shut down all colleges the same people who would have gone will still do better than the people who would not have gone.
We see the unemployment/underemployment rate of recent grads is close to 50%. That represents tremendous waste, both of time and money. Many people in college had no business going in the first place. They would have been far better off training as welders or mechanics--areas where they had actual talent. Instead they waste their time taking courses they dont really understand and being subjected to indoctrination by ivory tower liberals.

How can you possible prove that? Basically what you are saying is that people that are college bound are predetermined to be successful. Thats not even close to being true. There are a lot of billionaires and millionaires that would disagree.

I realize from the other thread that you are not very bright and so cannot make logical inferences from written statements.
But what I wrote is that people that go to college tend to be brighter and more motivated than people who don't. Note the word "tend". therefore they will do better no matter what. College is not the cause of their success but the effect of it.

This is true. The fact that many people can go to college because they can afford it but really are dumber than a box of hair, explains where the expression "Educated Fool" comes from. It also explains democrats.

 

[Darkwind]

There's something wrong with it when it costs folks $60k+ to be a part of this "mandatory screening procedure".

That's what's wrong with it.

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?

If you want a finance job nowadays - as an example - you need to dish out $60k to enter the field. It's mandatory.

40 years ago you could enter the field for free and instead save that 60k for a house or retirement.

Same job.

I think it's valid to be a bit frustrated by that.

You are not living 40 years ago and I doubt very much you could enter the financial accounting for free. They did have Certified Public Accountant degrees, even back then.

 

[boedicca]

I was told by another poster i will not name that too many p
This nonsense about kids coming out of college with too much debt is just that. Nonsense. No one held a gun to their head and forced them to go to the most expensive Universities out there.

I'm tempted to agree...but the lack of a "truth in lending" requirement for student loans based on the value of the degree is deceptive. There should be the equivalent of an appraisal on degrees in various majors from the particular school. There is no return on education analysis. It's fraudulent to hand out $Ten Thousands in loans to somebody with no income without an ROE analysis.

 

[KevinWestern]

Here is the problem as I see it. People want a high paying job at no personal cost to themselves.

How is that right or acceptable?

If you want the high paying job, then you fill in the requirements to have that job. If that means a college education, then YOU, as and INDIVIDUAL, will have to determine if that job is worth the cost and effort.

Just saying that I want a high paying job is NOT a path to getting one.

My complaint is this; it's unnecessarily mandatory.

Folks in generations past could get by just fine at many jobs that require a degree today, with no degree.

I can have the same job my dad was successful at without college, however now it costs me $60k to enter into the field.

It sucks for my generation, because the lot of us are bogged down with debt.

A degree was not mandatory in finance 40 years ago, and now all of a sudden it is.

I can choose to bypass the degree, but good luck finding yourself anywhere but behind a McDonald's cash register.

It isn't mandatory. You can do something else that does not require the degree.

Apparently, they cannot. It may be that folks in the past, could do a mediocre job and the employer determined they needed more than just getting by, and decided the job requires more education. Or it could be that that process of the job has become so much more complicated that it requires someone who had more critical thinking skills than just rote task management. Who knows. Here is an idea. Perhaps there are still employers out there that don't require the degree. Find them and apply for that job. This still boils down to you want.

Your are bogged down with debt before you draw your first breath of air. You are NOT bogged down with debt because of education. That is a voluntary choice.

Your entire stance revolves around you thinking that your every want and desire should be fulfilled without any cost to yourself.

How is it that you can even think that?

Darkwind, you can hold the insults and get off your glorious high horse there. Might I ask your age?

You try finding a well paying job in this economy without a degree. I've got quite a few friends who bypassed college and are having a hell of a time finding anything near what the degree fields will pay.

I live in the real world, and suggest you join me.

College costs are rising at 2x the rate of inflation; it's a major issue that deserves some attention.

 

[Sunshine]

Colleges are in it for the money.
20 to 30 million students maybe ? Just imagine if they were all out looking for work. There are simply not that many jobs in America anymore and technology will continue to reduce the need for people.

"Colleges are in it for the money"? Of course they (in large part) are. They should be. That's why American Universities are the best in the world and our public schools suck.

There are LOTS of jobs going unfilled due to a dearth of qualified applicants (and despite this some people still want to run and hide behind the sofa over skilled workers coming here on H-1b Visas).

Technology will not reduce the need for people, it will increase the need for ever more highly skilled people and reduce the need for low to unskilled people. So where should we be focusing our attention? On primitive protectionism, isolationism, and some Luddite-esque smashing of new technology or on developing more highly skilled workers in all industries?

The paradox is what happens in nursing schools which are part of colleges and universities. There are a lot of people who want to be nurses. But the bottleneck is at the school where no one who can function as a clinician is going to teach because the pay is peanuts. I taught 3 years while I was in law school. Loved the job. I wish I could have continued in that role. But I needed more than the $40K it paid (which wasn't actually bad for 9 months of work) if I was going to retire. So I went back into clinical practice. The school where I worked would not count my JD as doctorate in a 'related field.' But my last employer did, and it got me big bucks.

There is just nothing quite as gratifying as seeing the light bulbs come on. They learn so much and don't even realize how much. Nursing school isn't just a degree. Nursing school changed who you are. When the graduate walks across that stage at graduation and pining, he/she is NOT the same person as that green little neophyte who started 2 or 4years before. I could have taught the rest of my life if the pay had been up there. As it was the terminal degree for nursing profs was the master's because not that many have doctorates. The school kept that quiet because those PhDs falling all over each other for a job would have a duck. As it was most of the nursing profs did get doctorates, but not always in nursing.

 

[Unkotare]

There's something wrong with it when it costs folks $60k+ to be a part of this "mandatory screening procedure".

That's what's wrong with it.

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?

If you want a finance job nowadays - as an example - you need to dish out $60k to enter the field. It's mandatory.

40 years ago you could enter the field for free and instead save that 60k for a house or retirement.

Same job.

I think it's valid to be a bit frustrated by that.

It's not "valid," it's childishly irrational. You don't want to finance a 60k education? Fine, don't. But don't bitch about not getting a job that requires the degree you decided wasn't worth it.

 

[PredFan]

I think that for some college is beneficial, for others not so much.
A plumber, an electrician, a mason, a carpenter all highly skilled jobs better suited to the higher IQ individual who decides that college is not for him.
It al comes down to personal choice!
Suum Cique!

Actually, a college degree would work wonders for any type of construction worker. The learned skills in varying fields and the brain training would be a godsend to the whole business. But the job doesn't pay enough to warrant a college education.

I loved the trade. I was a welder who hung i-beams, bar joists and such. I would still be doing it today if it had paid enough. I loved it. I may lose my healthcare job because of Obamacare, and I could go get a job in a welding shop right now and probably be the best most valuable worker there mainly because of my college degree.

 

[KevinWestern]

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?

If you want a finance job nowadays - as an example - you need to dish out $60k to enter the field. It's mandatory.

40 years ago you could enter the field for free and instead save that 60k for a house or retirement.

Same job.

I think it's valid to be a bit frustrated by that.

You are not living 40 years ago and I doubt very much you could enter the financial accounting for free. They did have Certified Public Accountant degrees, even back then.

Ah a CPA, lol? Yea, very familiar with those as we still need to get them in addition to the $60k four year degree.

You realize how cheap they are to acquire in comparison?

 

[Darkwind]

I was told by another poster i will not name that too many p
This nonsense about kids coming out of college with too much debt is just that. Nonsense. No one held a gun to their head and forced them to go to the most expensive Universities out there.

I'm tempted to agree...but the lack of a "truth in lending" requirement for student loans based on the value of the degree is deceptive. There should be the equivalent of an appraisal on degrees in various majors from the particular school. There is no return on education analysis. It's fraudulent to hand out $Ten Thousands in loans to somebody with no income without an ROE analysis.

Is there something wrong with a student understanding what the degree will earn them post graduation, prior to taking the loan?

When I went after My degree, I did so on the criteria of:

1. Would I enjoy the career?
2. Will I get adequately compensated for it? (this is a personal determination. Some people won't be adequately compensated (in their mind anyway) if they are making six figures right out of the box)
3. Will I be able to advance My knowledge and income in a reasonable amount of time.

I considered number 3 an option, not a necessity. That was because I know I have a knack for increasing My self worth and will always rise to the top. However, I did the research before I applied for the loan. I actually settled for a field I was not as interested in primarily because the minor and major were complementary and the loans were a lot cheaper.

 

[KevinWestern]

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?

If you want a finance job nowadays - as an example - you need to dish out $60k to enter the field. It's mandatory.

40 years ago you could enter the field for free and instead save that 60k for a house or retirement.

Same job.

I think it's valid to be a bit frustrated by that.

It's not "valid," it's childishly irrational. You don't want to finance a 60k education? Fine, don't. But don't bitch about not getting a job that requires the degree you decided wasn't worth it.

My point is that the job didn't require a degree 40 years ago and now (magically) all of a sudden it does. I'm not complaining about the fields which have always required a lot of schooling..

Explain why the 20 something's of today need to pay $60k to do the job that the 50 somethings got to do for free 40 years ago? How about we just go back to the way it was instead of getting scammed out of our money.

And I can't get angry about that?

 

[Darkwind]

If you want a finance job nowadays - as an example - you need to dish out $60k to enter the field. It's mandatory.

40 years ago you could enter the field for free and instead save that 60k for a house or retirement.

Same job.

I think it's valid to be a bit frustrated by that.

You are not living 40 years ago and I doubt very much you could enter the financial accounting for free. They did have Certified Public Accountant degrees, even back then.

Ah a CPA, lol? Yea, very familiar with those as we still need to get them in addition to the $60k four year degree.

You realize how cheap they are to acquire in comparison?

What does that matter? Again, that is a choice.

Do you think that you are owed a career in finance?

 

[candycorn]

Well, the question is this:

"Is going to college beneficial or is that a lie?"

Undoubtedly it is beneficial because employers are insisting on it.

 

[boedicca]

I'm tempted to agree...but the lack of a "truth in lending" requirement for student loans based on the value of the degree is deceptive. There should be the equivalent of an appraisal on degrees in various majors from the particular school. There is no return on education analysis. It's fraudulent to hand out $Ten Thousands in loans to somebody with no income without an ROE analysis.

I

Is there something wrong with a student understanding what the degree will earn them post graduation, prior to taking the loan?

When I went after My degree, I did so on the criteria of:

1. Would I enjoy the career?
2. Will I get adequately compensated for it? (this is a personal determination. Some people won't be adequately compensated (in their mind anyway) if they are making six figures right out of the box)
3. Will I be able to advance My knowledge and income in a reasonable amount of time.

I considered number 3 an option, not a necessity. That was because I know I have a knack for increasing My self worth and will always rise to the top. However, I did the research before I applied for the loan. I actually settled for a field I was not as interested in primarily because the minor and major were complementary and the loans were a lot cheaper.

I didn't say that. I said that anyone taking out a loan should evaluate the expected return on the investment.

 

[KevinWestern]

You are not living 40 years ago and I doubt very much you could enter the financial accounting for free. They did have Certified Public Accountant degrees, even back then.

Ah a CPA, lol? Yea, very familiar with those as we still need to get them in addition to the $60k four year degree.

You realize how cheap they are to acquire in comparison?

What does that matter? Again, that is a choice.

Do you think that you are owed a career in finance?

No, I do not.

But finance was an example. Nowadays most all well paying fields require a degree whereas 40 years those SAME well paying fields did not.

Keyword: same.

I'm upset with the double standard that has been created. Understand?

 

[Unkotare]

If you want a finance job nowadays - as an example - you need to dish out $60k to enter the field. It's mandatory.

40 years ago you could enter the field for free and instead save that 60k for a house or retirement.

Same job.

I think it's valid to be a bit frustrated by that.

It's not "valid," it's childishly irrational. You don't want to finance a 60k education? Fine, don't. But don't bitch about not getting a job that requires the degree you decided wasn't worth it.

My point is that the job didn't require a degree 40 years ago and now (magically) all of a sudden it does. I'm not complaint about the fields which have always required a lot of schooling..

Explain why the 20 something's of today need to pay $60k to do the job that the 50 somethings got to do for free 40 years ago? How about we just go back to the way it was instead of getting scammed out of our money.

And I can't get angry about that?

Go ride your horse down the freeway for a few miles then come back and tell me why.

 

[Darkwind]

My complaint is this; it's unnecessarily mandatory.

Folks in generations past could get by just fine at many jobs that require a degree today, with no degree.

I can have the same job my dad was successful at without college, however now it costs me $60k to enter into the field.

It sucks for my generation, because the lot of us are bogged down with debt.

A degree was not mandatory in finance 40 years ago, and now all of a sudden it is.

I can choose to bypass the degree, but good luck finding yourself anywhere but behind a McDonald's cash register.

It isn't mandatory. You can do something else that does not require the degree.

Apparently, they cannot. It may be that folks in the past, could do a mediocre job and the employer determined they needed more than just getting by, and decided the job requires more education. Or it could be that that process of the job has become so much more complicated that it requires someone who had more critical thinking skills than just rote task management. Who knows. Here is an idea. Perhaps there are still employers out there that don't require the degree. Find them and apply for that job. This still boils down to you want.

Your are bogged down with debt before you draw your first breath of air. You are NOT bogged down with debt because of education. That is a voluntary choice.

Your entire stance revolves around you thinking that your every want and desire should be fulfilled without any cost to yourself.

How is it that you can even think that?

Darkwind, you can hold the insults and get off your glorious high horse there. Might I ask your age?

You try finding a well paying job in this economy without a degree. I've got quite a few friends who bypassed college and are having a hell of a time finding anything near what the degree fields will pay.

I live in the real world, and suggest you join me.

College costs are rising at 2x the rate of inflation; it's a major issue that deserves some attention.

I haven't insulted you.

You simply don't seem to be able to see how childish your position is.

YOU WANT to have this job, but you don't want to have to pay for it. This is an attitude that I have seen often. You think that your desires and wants should be met, without cost to you. That isn't an insult. That is an objective analysis of what you are saying.

If you want a well paying job, YOU are going to have to PAY for it. That is called a fact of life. To Me, you are just whining because they didn't have to pay for in the past, but I have to now.

The world is more complex and requires more intellectual training than it did 30, 40, 50 years ago.

I get tired of the "I want" attitude of the world today.

"Want" in one hand, and shit in the other and tell Me what you end up with.

 

[Darkwind]

Ah a CPA, lol? Yea, very familiar with those as we still need to get them in addition to the $60k four year degree.

You realize how cheap they are to acquire in comparison?

What does that matter? Again, that is a choice.

Do you think that you are owed a career in finance?

No, I do not.

But finance was an example. Nowadays most all well paying fields require a degree whereas 40 years those SAME well paying fields did not.

Keyword: same.

I'm upset with the double standard that has been created. Understand?

There IS NO double standard.

The world has changed. For better or worse, you adapt to meet it, or you perish.