Is going to college beneficial or is that a lie?

[Zoom-boing]

For dome jobs, college is useful (I'm thinking doctor, lawyer). It's also useful because many companies require a four year degree no matter what (however that doesn't mean that intrinsically the experience was useful).

I work in Finance at a large company and acquired 90% of my skills on the job. Could have done without the 4 year, $60k+ education that I'll be paying off for the next 25 years. Feel it's sort of a scam that everyone - no matter what - must attend at least 4 years.

Lets cut that down to 1-2 for some professions and save folks some money.

It's very difficult however to end such a gigantic cash cow once it's been built out like our educational system has..

^ This. Spot on.

 

[boedicca]

Wouldnt that be a function of the economy and not college? When higher paying jobs are created who is going to get first dibs the guy with the hs diploma or the guy with a degree?

You are missing the point. A large portion of graduates cannot find jobs related to their degrees, so they are taking lower paid jobs that used to go to high school graduates.

But thats still an economic thing and not that people shouldnt go to college.

You Dim Bulb. I didn't say that people shouldn't go to college. I said that people should be mindful of the return on investment for their education.

Graudates with STEM degrees are generally able to get good jobs. Aggrieved Minority Studies grads...not so much.

 

[francoHFW]

# 14- Thanks for the great recession (you hear about that?), and cutting funding for training and tech schools...What made free trade fail.

 

[boedicca]

If you are not majoring in math, science, engineering, computer science or healthcare...you would probably be better served enlisting in the Army for four years, get paid to learn, and come out with a marketable skill and experience, plus money for college.

Agreed, except for health care...unless one really wants to be a government bureaucrat.

 

[francoHFW]

There's also the idea that we need to educate people to be good citizens, to be able to recognize BS and bigotry- something that's been bad mouthed for a while, to the country's detriment.. College grads make twice as much on average.

 

[dilloduck]

I've always thought that college was over rated. The whole four-year thing ... the 'required' stuff isn't necessary, imo. Go in, learn your field of study, get out. Two years max.

More and more jobs are requiring a four year degree, jobs that in no way should they require a four year degree. Administrative assistant? Please. BTDT several times. Learn the basics (associates degree or comparable experience) and go from there.

My most recent job (counted the drug inventory of pharmaceutical sales reps) required a four year degree. Seriously, if you had half a brain, could walk and chew gum at the same time you could do the job. It just wasn't that complicated. Bullshit on the degree.

Amen----A college degree has simply become part of a screening procedure. If all these places are screaming for skills then they need to train and recruit. I think most of it's bullshit.
Colleges are in it for the money.
20 to 30 million students maybe ? Just imagine if they were all out looking for work. There are simply not that many jobs in America anymore and technology will continue to reduce the need for people.

 

[Unkotare]

Some people seem to have the strange notion that if everyone who is unemployed today had dropped out of high school in their Junior year and become a plumber or electrician (through trade school or apprenticeship) everything would be peaches and cream for our economy. If such a bizarre fantasy ever were to come true, those who are plumbers and electricians now would NOT enjoy the experience. Many of the same sort of people seem to think that the future of American economic growth lies in 'protecting' low to unskilled labor. This is an impractical, fear-induced, Taliban-y sort of economic viewpoint, but some people seem to find solace in it nonetheless.

 

[Unkotare]

----A college degree has simply become part of a screening procedure.

"Has become"? It's always been (partly) that, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[KevinWestern]

I've always thought that college was over rated. The whole four-year thing ... the 'required' stuff isn't necessary, imo. Go in, learn your field of study, get out. Two years max.

More and more jobs are requiring a four year degree, jobs that in no way should they require a four year degree. Administrative assistant? Please. BTDT several times. Learn the basics (associates degree or comparable experience) and go from there.

My most recent job (counted the drug inventory of pharmaceutical sales reps) required a four year degree. Seriously, if you had half a brain, could walk and chew gum at the same time you could do the job. It just wasn't that complicated. Bullshit on the degree.

Amen----A college degree has simply become part of a screening procedure. If all these places are screaming for skills then they need to train and recruit. I think most of it's bullshit.
Colleges are in it for the money.
20 to 30 million students maybe ? Just imagine if they were all out looking for work. There are simply not that many jobs in America anymore and technology will continue to reduce the need for people.

Yea, I think it's time we figure out a "screening" system that doesn't put the kids in the red for the first twenty years of adult life.

I'd rather they invest that money in new businesses, homes, etc.

It's a scam, I hate to say it.

.

 

[Darkwind]

I was told by another poster i will not name that too many people go to college. The reasoning is that its all a lie that college teaches you the skills to get a higher paying job.

Why do too many people go to college? Because they've been sold a lie that going to college gives you skills to get a high paying job.

i went to college and got a degree in my field and secured a higher paying job because of the skills I acquired. Not only did I learn the skills I also received a degree that certified I was qualified for the prerequisites for the job. Before anyone thinks I left something out this is literally all the poster gave me to go on. Anyone agree with the posters premise?

Higher education is always beneficial.

It is not, however, free. Nor should it be. An individual must weigh the cost of the education against the benefit and time committed and make a choice.

The thing here is that YOU don't get to make that choice for anyone except you. I don't get to make that choice for anyone but Me.

This nonsense about kids coming out of college with too much debt is just that. Nonsense. No one held a gun to their head and forced them to go to the most expensive Universities out there.

Last time I checked, 2+2 still equaled 4, and it did so at the local University as well as at Harvard.

If you want that special name attached, then pay for it and accept that the debt when you graduate is going to be massive.


Funny I never hear anyone complain, (at least on the left) about the massive debt every person acquires before they even draw their first breath. That is an involuntary incursion of debt.

College is strictly self inflicted.

 

[KevinWestern]

----A college degree has simply become part of a screening procedure.

"Has become"? It's always been (partly) that, and there's nothing wrong with that.

There's something wrong with it when it costs folks $60k+ to be a part of this "mandatory screening procedure".

That's what's wrong with it.

 

[KevinWestern]

I was told by another poster i will not name that too many people go to college. The reasoning is that its all a lie that college teaches you the skills to get a higher paying job.

Why do too many people go to college? Because they've been sold a lie that going to college gives you skills to get a high paying job.

i went to college and got a degree in my field and secured a higher paying job because of the skills I acquired. Not only did I learn the skills I also received a degree that certified I was qualified for the prerequisites for the job. Before anyone thinks I left something out this is literally all the poster gave me to go on. Anyone agree with the posters premise?

Higher education is always beneficial.

It is not, however, free. Nor should it be. An individual must weigh the cost of the education against the benefit and time committed and make a choice.

The thing here is that YOU don't get to make that choice for anyone except you. I don't get to make that choice for anyone but Me.

This nonsense about kids coming out of college with too much debt is just that. Nonsense. No one held a gun to their head and forced them to go to the most expensive Universities out there.

Last time I checked, 2+2 still equaled 4, and it did so at the local University as well as at Harvard.

If you want that special name attached, then pay for it and accept that the debt when you graduate is going to be massive.


Funny I never hear anyone complain, (at least on the left) about the massive debt every person acquires before they even draw their first breath. That is an involuntary incursion of debt.

College is strictly self inflicted.

But the thing is that it's necessary nowadays to get that degree.

No one's holding a gun to anyone's head - correct - but try getting a well paying job (one that grandpa got and did just fine with without a degree) nowadays without that diploma.

It's unnecessarily mandatory, and it kind of sucks.

 

[Darkwind]

I was told by another poster i will not name that too many people go to college. The reasoning is that its all a lie that college teaches you the skills to get a higher paying job.

i went to college and got a degree in my field and secured a higher paying job because of the skills I acquired. Not only did I learn the skills I also received a degree that certified I was qualified for the prerequisites for the job. Before anyone thinks I left something out this is literally all the poster gave me to go on. Anyone agree with the posters premise?

Higher education is always beneficial.

It is not, however, free. Nor should it be. An individual must weigh the cost of the education against the benefit and time committed and make a choice.

The thing here is that YOU don't get to make that choice for anyone except you. I don't get to make that choice for anyone but Me.

This nonsense about kids coming out of college with too much debt is just that. Nonsense. No one held a gun to their head and forced them to go to the most expensive Universities out there.

Last time I checked, 2+2 still equaled 4, and it did so at the local University as well as at Harvard.

If you want that special name attached, then pay for it and accept that the debt when you graduate is going to be massive.


Funny I never hear anyone complain, (at least on the left) about the massive debt every person acquires before they even draw their first breath. That is an involuntary incursion of debt.

College is strictly self inflicted.

But the thing is that it's necessary nowadays to get that degree.

No one's holding a gun to anyone's head - correct - but try getting a well paying job (one that grandpa got and did just fine with without a degree) nowadays without that diploma.

It's mandatory, and it kind of sucks.

Here is the problem as I see it. People want a high paying job at no personal cost to themselves.

How is that right or acceptable?

If you want the high paying job, then you fill in the requirements to have that job. If that means a college education, then YOU, as and INDIVIDUAL, will have to determine if that job is worth the cost and effort.

Just saying that I want a high paying job is NOT a path to getting one.

 

[Darkwind]

----A college degree has simply become part of a screening procedure.

"Has become"? It's always been (partly) that, and there's nothing wrong with that.

There's something wrong with it when it costs folks $60k+ to be a part of this "mandatory screening procedure".

That's what's wrong with it.

Its not mandatory.

 

[Unkotare]

Colleges are in it for the money.
20 to 30 million students maybe ? Just imagine if they were all out looking for work. There are simply not that many jobs in America anymore and technology will continue to reduce the need for people.

"Colleges are in it for the money"? Of course they (in large part) are. They should be. That's why American Universities are the best in the world and our public schools suck.

There are LOTS of jobs going unfilled due to a dearth of qualified applicants (and despite this some people still want to run and hide behind the sofa over skilled workers coming here on H-1b Visas).

Technology will not reduce the need for people, it will increase the need for ever more highly skilled people and reduce the need for low to unskilled people. So where should we be focusing our attention? On primitive protectionism, isolationism, and some Luddite-esque smashing of new technology or on developing more highly skilled workers in all industries?

 

[The Rabbi]

They also enjoy greater job security and shorter periods of unemployment after a job loss.

Needless to say a college degree is no guarantee to a higher paying job or job security, but both are extremely difficult to realize without a four-year degree.

Wrong on all counts.
Some of the stats are because the groups are self selecting. If you shut down all colleges the same people who would have gone will still do better than the people who would not have gone.
We see the unemployment/underemployment rate of recent grads is close to 50%. That represents tremendous waste, both of time and money. Many people in college had no business going in the first place. They would have been far better off training as welders or mechanics--areas where they had actual talent. Instead they waste their time taking courses they dont really understand and being subjected to indoctrination by ivory tower liberals.

How can you possible prove that? Basically what you are saying is that people that are college bound are predetermined to be successful. Thats not even close to being true. There are a lot of billionaires and millionaires that would disagree.

I realize from the other thread that you are not very bright and so cannot make logical inferences from written statements.
But what I wrote is that people that go to college tend to be brighter and more motivated than people who don't. Note the word "tend". therefore they will do better no matter what. College is not the cause of their success but the effect of it.

 

[KevinWestern]

Higher education is always beneficial.

It is not, however, free. Nor should it be. An individual must weigh the cost of the education against the benefit and time committed and make a choice.

The thing here is that YOU don't get to make that choice for anyone except you. I don't get to make that choice for anyone but Me.

This nonsense about kids coming out of college with too much debt is just that. Nonsense. No one held a gun to their head and forced them to go to the most expensive Universities out there.

Last time I checked, 2+2 still equaled 4, and it did so at the local University as well as at Harvard.

If you want that special name attached, then pay for it and accept that the debt when you graduate is going to be massive.


Funny I never hear anyone complain, (at least on the left) about the massive debt every person acquires before they even draw their first breath. That is an involuntary incursion of debt.

College is strictly self inflicted.

But the thing is that it's necessary nowadays to get that degree.

No one's holding a gun to anyone's head - correct - but try getting a well paying job (one that grandpa got and did just fine with without a degree) nowadays without that diploma.

It's mandatory, and it kind of sucks.

Here is the problem as I see it. People want a high paying job at no personal cost to themselves.

How is that right or acceptable?

If you want the high paying job, then you fill in the requirements to have that job. If that means a college education, then YOU, as and INDIVIDUAL, will have to determine if that job is worth the cost and effort.

Just saying that I want a high paying job is NOT a path to getting one.

My complaint is this; it's unnecessarily mandatory.

Folks in generations past could get by just fine at many jobs that require a degree today, with no degree.

I can have the same job my dad was successful at without college, however now it costs me $60k to enter into the field.

It sucks for my generation, because the lot of us are bogged down with debt.

A degree was not mandatory in finance 40 years ago, and now all of a sudden it is. And (to top it off) the job is much simpler now with the incorporation of computer software, etc! It just seems silly to me.

I can choose to bypass the degree, but good luck finding yourself anywhere but behind a McDonald's cash register.

 

[Sunshine]

I was told by another poster i will not name that too many people go to college. The reasoning is that its all a lie that college teaches you the skills to get a higher paying job.

Why do too many people go to college? Because they've been sold a lie that going to college gives you skills to get a high paying job.

i went to college and got a degree in my field and secured a higher paying job because of the skills I acquired. Not only did I learn the skills I also received a degree that certified I was qualified for the prerequisites for the job. Before anyone thinks I left something out this is literally all the poster gave me to go on. Anyone agree with the posters premise?

Not all college degrees have equal marketable value.

It's especially important for anyone thinking about taking out student loans for a degree to evaluate his future earning potential. Too many graduates are saddled with massive amounts of debt for degrees that have virtually no economic value. The fact that such loans are handed out without an appraisal for the value of the education is fraud, imo.

^^^^^^what she said ^^^^^^^^^^

If you go into a profession you most likely are bettering yourself. Most of the other stuff is window dressing to pay the bills for the school. IMO, trades are still honorable. My plumber charges as much as a surgeon. Given the estimate I got from painters here, they do as well.

When I was teaching one of my teaching partners was working on her EdD. She told me that there are many kinds of intelligence and the next time she married she was going to marry someone who could fix the toilet. This is true. The farmers here got to college, and food production is good because of those degree in agriculture. But trades are very important. We will never outgrow the need for tradesmen and women. My hairdresser is one of the most important people in my life. Just sayin'.

 

[asterism]

Not all college degrees have equal marketable value.

It's especially important for anyone thinking about taking out student loans for a degree to evaluate his future earning potential. Too many graduates are saddled with massive amounts of debt for degrees that have virtually no economic value. The fact that such loans are handed out without an appraisal for the value of the education is fraud, imo.

Right wingers like Rick Santorum and the bulk of the Republican Party that agrees with him make no distinction.

Science is a faith, evolution a lie, climate change a conspiracy, education is for snobs and liberal college professors only want to turn your kids into communists.

It's one of the reasons Red States are a mess and only get by with money from the very "liberals" they hate. Worse, they try to blame it on minorities. The US over all is 71% white. Many of the Red States, like Kentucky and Tennessee are 90% or more white (just like the Republican Party). So they can't blame it on minorities how ever hard they try. It's following 150 years of destructive and discredited conservative policies.

You're so full of shit.

Kentucky QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Tennessee QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau


Now explain Mississippi

Mississippi QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

 

[Unkotare]

----A college degree has simply become part of a screening procedure.

"Has become"? It's always been (partly) that, and there's nothing wrong with that.

There's something wrong with it when it costs folks $60k+ to be a part of this "mandatory screening procedure".

That's what's wrong with it.

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?