Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[Mad_Cabbie]

Occam's razor doesn't apply because it is only a problem in the mind of fanatics.

Occam applies to ALL scientific questions. Religious nutters ignore science and the scientific method. I don't.

ROFLMAO!!! SCIENCE THEORY CHANGES ALMOST DAY TO DAY! BIG BANG NOW DEBUNKED!!! LIFE BEGAN IN PONDSCUM BUT TODAY THE THEORY IS LIFE CAME TO EARTH ON SPACE ROCKS!!LOL!! WITHOUT EVEN A IDEA AS TO WHERE AND HOW THE LIFE ON SPACE ROCKS BEGAN!! ROFLMAO!! Come on!!!

Dude, stop with the all caps, already! It's against the rules and you are deliberately adding lower-case letters in order to circumvent the auto-shift.

It's annoying, thanks.

Furthermore, this is a place for civilized debate; shoveling a bunch of right-wing nonsense into your post is not the same thing.

 

[emilynghiem]

Agreed, religion in and of itself it's more about conformity than God

Here you go. You used the word "conformity." I spent 10 minutes finding the actual quote because you wanted to word parse. Conformity is purely social, it has no other meaning. I'm going to pass on responding to you if you're going to play games.

So you are a Christian who doesn't go to church and thinks religion is about "conformity more than God."

Obviously when I said you don't understand Christians and you objected, it was feigned indignation and what I said was right. All I am saying is they should not tell you what you think, you should do the same.

Dear Kaz and Inevitable:
I think both things are going on, not either/or. Religions involve both absolute truth that "God" represents, and relative expression per group based on conformity.
In practice, the RELIGIONS themselves are used as cultural languages among a like community, so this is to help establish a "common language" and law that peers agree to live by.
In spirit, the CONTENT in religions all point toward universal laws that "God" represents. So it is both.

Inevitable's comment is general enough to apply to all, and did not single out Christianity.
Even if Inevitable has a limit and mild bias, he is honest and fair, not unreasonable about it,
and invites open discussion within the language he does relate to more in secular terms.

He is no different in asking that WE conform to "common language" for sake of communicating more effectively.
How is that much different from conformity in religions?

As long as we are committed to discerning truth and correcting error, that is still seeking "God's truth" or "universal truth"
regardless what language, secular or religious, we use for "conformity" sake.
Thank you for this!

 

[kaz]

WHAT HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS NOT JUST PERVERTED LUST WITH NO HONOR ??== God wants you to be made holy. He wants you to stay away from sexual sins. 4 He wants all of you to learn to control your own bodies. You must live in a way that is holy. You must live with honor. 5 Don’t long to commit sexual sins like those who don’t know God. 1 THESSALIOANS 4:4

Why does it bother you so much? I look at all the things that happen in this world with victims, and I can't grasp the obsession some people have with something that doesn't harm anyone.

 

[GISMYS]

WHAT HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS NOT JUST PERVERTED LUST WITH NO HONOR ??== God wants you to be made holy. He wants you to stay away from sexual sins. 4 He wants all of you to learn to control your own bodies. You must live in a way that is holy. You must live with honor. 5 Don’t long to commit sexual sins like those who don’t know God. 1 THESSALIOANS 4:4

Why does it bother you so much? I look at all the things that happen in this world with victims, and I can't grasp the obsession some people have with something that doesn't harm anyone.

40,000,000 + Dead from HIV AIDS, another 40 million HIV positive, countless more millions living ruined lives ofguilt and shame and you say""whats the harm""????

 

[sealybobo]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

Gay people are born that way. Bi sexual people or people who could possibly go both ways are born that way and so are people who are completely hetero. A complete hetero knows they were born straight. A complete homo knows they were born that way. It's the bi sexuals that are confused. They think everyone thinks the way they do.

My question, "Is religion a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?"

Because people are certainly not born religious.

 

[sealybobo]

WHAT HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS NOT JUST PERVERTED LUST WITH NO HONOR ??== God wants you to be made holy. He wants you to stay away from sexual sins. 4 He wants all of you to learn to control your own bodies. You must live in a way that is holy. You must live with honor. 5 Don’t long to commit sexual sins like those who don’t know God. 1 THESSALIOANS 4:4

Why does it bother you so much? I look at all the things that happen in this world with victims, and I can't grasp the obsession some people have with something that doesn't harm anyone.

40,000,000 + Dead from HIV AIDS, another 40 million HIV positive, countless more millions living ruined lives ofguilt and shame and you say""whats the harm""????

If god is perfect, why didn't he ONLY give it to gays and drug users? Is god a fuck up?

 

[kaz]

I think both things are going on, not either/or. Religions involve both absolute truth that "God" represents, and relative expression per group based on conformity.
In practice, the RELIGIONS themselves are used as cultural languages among a like community, so this is to help establish a "common language" and law that peers agree to live by.
In spirit, the CONTENT in religions all point toward universal laws that "God" represents. So it is both.

I actually by calling it "social" made his point less critical as "conformity" has a connotation of being motivated by a fear of being different while "social" doesn't. He didn't say conformity was a factor, he didn't even say it was both, he said it was the primary factor. That's not true with the Christians I know, the religion is very important to them. Which is why I suggested and suggest if he doesn't like them and doesn't understand them, he should probably not claim to know what motivates them. I said the same about them with him.

 

[sealybobo]

WHAT HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS NOT JUST PERVERTED LUST WITH NO HONOR ??== God wants you to be made holy. He wants you to stay away from sexual sins. 4 He wants all of you to learn to control your own bodies. You must live in a way that is holy. You must live with honor. 5 Don’t long to commit sexual sins like those who don’t know God. 1 THESSALIOANS 4:4

Why does it bother you so much? I look at all the things that happen in this world with victims, and I can't grasp the obsession some people have with something that doesn't harm anyone.

Great point. And Gismys says aids is a problem. True. So maybe god is trying to tell them if they are going to be gay don't have sex with multiple partners. And if you are going to wear a condom. But god, jesus and mosus didn't know about sheep skin back then, did they?

 

[GISMYS]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

Gay people are born that way. Bi sexual people or people who could possibly go both ways are born that way and so are people who are completely hetero. A complete hetero knows they were born straight. A complete homo knows they were born that way. It's the bi sexuals that are confused. They think everyone thinks the way they do.

My question, "Is religion a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?"

Because people are certainly not born religious.

Lol the sinner's "big cop out"= I was just born that way! LOL! He says,"I was born a natural liar or a desire to steal, or my genes makeme a drunk,a glutton,a druggiee or a sexual pervert, or a pedophile====== NO!! Its your choice!!!

 

[kaz]

WHAT HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS NOT JUST PERVERTED LUST WITH NO HONOR ??== God wants you to be made holy. He wants you to stay away from sexual sins. 4 He wants all of you to learn to control your own bodies. You must live in a way that is holy. You must live with honor. 5 Don’t long to commit sexual sins like those who don’t know God. 1 THESSALIOANS 4:4

Why does it bother you so much? I look at all the things that happen in this world with victims, and I can't grasp the obsession some people have with something that doesn't harm anyone.

40,000,000 + Dead from HIV AIDS, another 40 million HIV positive, countless more millions living ruined lives ofguilt and shame and you say""whats the harm""????

That's a ridiculous answer. How many heterosexuals have died from sexual diseases? How many women are beaten and afraid to leave and eventually end up killed? Should we blame heterosexuality for that?

 

[RKMBrown]

WHAT HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS NOT JUST PERVERTED LUST WITH NO HONOR ??== God wants you to be made holy. He wants you to stay away from sexual sins. 4 He wants all of you to learn to control your own bodies. You must live in a way that is holy. You must live with honor. 5 Don’t long to commit sexual sins like those who don’t know God. 1 THESSALIOANS 4:4

Why does it bother you so much? I look at all the things that happen in this world with victims, and I can't grasp the obsession some people have with something that doesn't harm anyone.

40,000,000 + Dead from HIV AIDS, another 40 million HIV positive, countless more millions living ruined lives ofguilt and shame and you say""whats the harm""????

You are confusing irresponsible sexual interactions of groups of people who share needles and have continual and ongoing non-monogamous sexual relations with gays and straights who do not share needles and do not have continual and ongoing non-monogamous sexual relations. IOW you are fear mongering and mixing good behavior with bad behavior to make all gays look bad. Aids is spread rampantly by sharing needles and having continual and ongoing non-monogamous sexual relations. Which has nothing to do with being gay.

 

[GreenBean]

And you are sadly misinformed if you believe there is nothing to be fixed , to have become totally desensitized ....

To err is human... no?

Why should everyone be forced to be flawless like you greenbean?

To strive for perfection is an admirable thing - and I am glad to see you admit that Homosexuality is a flaw.

 

[GISMYS]

Why does it bother you so much? I look at all the things that happen in this world with victims, and I can't grasp the obsession some people have with something that doesn't harm anyone.

40,000,000 + Dead from HIV AIDS, another 40 million HIV positive, countless more millions living ruined lives ofguilt and shame and you say""whats the harm""????

That's a ridiculous answer. How many heterosexuals have died from sexual diseases? How many women are beaten and afraid to leave and eventually end up killed? Should we blame heterosexuality for that?

40,000,000+ dead from AIDS!!! For what??? GOD says don't do it! Do you really need more proof sexual perversion is an abomination!!!

 

[sealybobo]

I think both things are going on, not either/or. Religions involve both absolute truth that "God" represents, and relative expression per group based on conformity.
In practice, the RELIGIONS themselves are used as cultural languages among a like community, so this is to help establish a "common language" and law that peers agree to live by.
In spirit, the CONTENT in religions all point toward universal laws that "God" represents. So it is both.

I actually by calling it "social" made his point less critical as "conformity" has a connotation of being motivated by a fear of being different while "social" doesn't. He didn't say conformity was a factor, he didn't even say it was both, he said it was the primary factor. That's not true with the Christians I know, the religion is very important to them. Which is why I suggested and suggest if he doesn't like them and doesn't understand them, he should probably not claim to know what motivates them. I said the same about them with him.

If Americans really believed the jesus stories were real we would be a christian nation. There would be no seperation of church and state. Fact is our forefathers were smart enough to know to keep the corrupt churches/religions away from our government/democracy/freedom/nation/fill in the blank.

Most supposed christians don't even take the bible literally.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

 

[GreenBean]

I have dealt with him on another forum, he has nothing.

That's true - but finish the sentence -I have nothing that you can refute - so you choose to deflect

Glad to see you admit you have nothing and no one can refute that.

That's true there is nothing I have that you can refute . Did that answer your question, or did it question your answer, in any event your reesponse was a questionable answer .

 

[emilynghiem]

And you are sadly misinformed if you believe there is nothing to be fixed , to have become totally desensitized ....

[MENTION=46353]GreenBean[/MENTION]: not "totally" desensitized but SELECTIVELY so

I find it curious that each side is genuinely sensitive to the personal testimonies and research that back up their points,
but more ready to DISMISS the EQUAL personal testimony and research of others that prove their own positions.

Why not expand our scope and leave EQUAL room for the experiences and research of others, then we can be Equally Sensitive.

I find everyone on here quite passionate and committed to truth, driven by conscience.

As for anything to be fixed, people generally know what is natural and unnatural for them. If something needs to be fixed, they will seek help.
If not, they remain as they are. No one needs or responds to being pushed to change or not change, they will push themselves.

All people here are pushing to share or fix something. If we listened and became "more sensitive" to what someone is saying that is new and different, maybe they'd open up, too!

Can we try to hear points on all sides, and put the "larger picture" together from all those pieces everyone is contributing from their knowledge and different experiences?

GreenBean, if we want people to be more sensitive and inclusive of our points, shouldn't we practice more sensitivity and respect for them and their points?

 

[Howey]

Why does it bother you so much? I look at all the things that happen in this world with victims, and I can't grasp the obsession some people have with something that doesn't harm anyone.

40,000,000 + Dead from HIV AIDS, another 40 million HIV positive, countless more millions living ruined lives ofguilt and shame and you say""whats the harm""????

If god is perfect, why didn't he ONLY give it to gays and drug users? Is god a fuck up?

He must be to have created ignorant, uneducated people such as you.

Heterosexuals predominately have herpes simplex. Men primarily are victims of Parkinson’s, women osteoporosis. Blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, and so on. Why did God create these?

 

[RKMBrown]

And you are sadly misinformed if you believe there is nothing to be fixed , to have become totally desensitized ....

To err is human... no?

Why should everyone be forced to be flawless like you greenbean?

To strive for perfection is an admirable thing - and I am glad to see you admit that Homosexuality is a flaw.

That's not what I said. Why lie?

What I said is to err is human. All humans err. Additionally, all humans sin. If you truly believe yourself to be flawless, well then you are not human. Your error is in thinking you are flawless enough to be able to decide when other humans are making wrong choices in who they want to couple with.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I did say that but only Jesus knows why you inferred what you did from it, I certainly didn't imply anything of the sort.

What did it mean then?

What are you having trouble understanding?

If sexuality is understood because people want to have sex, who understands it?

I don't answer loaded questions.

You didn't like my interpretation of what you posted, but you refuse to clarify it for me. I ask questions because I want the answers.

B t he way, for a guy that keeps telling me he understands logic, you really don't. A loaded question contains am unjustified, or even controversial, assumption. Can you explain how asking you what you mean is in any way controversial? I already assumed I understood your point, and you said that I got it wrong. Asking for an explanation after that seems, to me, to be the next step of a conversation.

Perhaps you should stop projecting your debating technique on me.

 

[kaz]

40,000,000 + Dead from HIV AIDS, another 40 million HIV positive, countless more millions living ruined lives ofguilt and shame and you say""whats the harm""????

That's a ridiculous answer. How many heterosexuals have died from sexual diseases? How many women are beaten and afraid to leave and eventually end up killed? Should we blame heterosexuality for that?

40,000,000+ dead from AIDS!!! For what??? GOD says don't do it! Do you really need more proof sexual perversion is an abomination!!!

Not if you admit heterosexual is an abomination for the reasons I mentioned.

I don't think we should stone people for adultery, I don't think eating pork is a sin and I am fine with coffee too. I don't think God ever meant to read the bible and turn your brain off.