Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[GISMYS]

40,000,000 + Dead from HIV AIDS, another 40 million HIV positive, countless more millions living ruined lives ofguilt and shame and you say""whats the harm""????

If god is perfect, why didn't he ONLY give it to gays and drug users? Is god a fuck up?

He must be to have created ignorant, uneducated people such as you.

Heterosexuals predominately have herpes simplex. Men primarily are victims of Parkinson’s, women osteoporosis. Blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, and so on. Why did God create these?

sexual perverts gave theirself hiv aids not GOD!!! god is not willing that any perish but are free to choose HIV AIDS all you need do is live in sexual perversion! 40,000,000+ have paid the ""big"" price= death!

 

[RKMBrown]

If god is perfect, why didn't he ONLY give it to gays and drug users? Is god a fuck up?

He must be to have created ignorant, uneducated people such as you.

Heterosexuals predominately have herpes simplex. Men primarily are victims of Parkinson’s, women osteoporosis. Blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, and so on. Why did God create these?

sexual perverts gave theirself hiv aids not GOD!!! god is not willing that any perish but are free to choose HIV AIDS all you need do is live in sexual perversion! 40,000,000+ have paid the ""big"" price= death!

So if a monogamous heterosexual couple gets aids, it happened because the are living in sexual perversion? Huh?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, I am no longer interested in playing mind games with you.

Interesting.

You would come off as more mature if you just admitted your mistakes instead of trying to pretend the other guy is playing games.

what mistake? I would admit to them if I knew I what in God's name you were talking about.

I explained it, you have no evidence to call me a hypocrite unless you can show me that I take a stance morally, and then do the opposite in private. My moral position is that what people do in private is none of my business, just like what I do in private is none of theirs. I have never stated that homosexuality is wrong. I have, occasioally, pointed out that some things homosexuals do is considered a sin according to the Bible, but I have never once told anyone that they are headed to Hell as a result of their sins. That is not my decision, I am not management, so I don't pretend that I have the answers.

You are free to call me hard headed, stubborn, ill informed, and a whole list of other things, many of which I will cheerfully admit to, but I am not a hypocrite. You misused the word, so feel free to admit you made a mistake instead of accusing me of playing mind games.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Maybe you should have paid more attention.

If I'd paid any more attention, my eyes would have popped out of their sockets.

More likely your criteria for defining a conscious decision are considerably more flexible than mine.

No biggee.

Maybe. Lets just leave it at that and move along. My comment was facetious anyway.

 

[Slyhunter]

This above all: To thine own-self, be true.

I think Shakespeare had it right.

Is this discussion turning into a Bible discussion? Is this what the OP had in mind?

Any discussion about homosexuality is going to inevitably come around to religion since religion is the only groups against it. Minus religion, no one would be against it thus no need to discuss it.

Incorrect. I'm an agnostic and I'm against public displays of homosexuality. What they do in their own homes is none of my business. But what they do in public is disgusting. Interrupting church services while cross dressing, having gay day parades wearing their loud disgusting sexual outfits in public. Or simply making out in our parks. It isn't natural. I don't give a fuck about what God says. Nature says it's disgusting. Where you take a shit is not where a dick should go, on anybody.

If they keep it private than I don't care. My problem is they keep wanting to rub my face with it by being public with it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It boggles my mind people think its a choice. Its 2014 for cryin out loud. I didnt even know what turned on was but I knew I wanted to get next to the cute little girl in my class.

Why is everyone who knows they made a choice lying? Is there some sort of conspiracy? Are they delusional? Are you so close minded you cannot admit that you might not know everything?

Who said everyone that made a choice is lying? I said its not a choice when you are born what sex you are attracted to. You can make a choice later on but your initial sexual orientation is not determined by choice. You can convince yourself of pretty much anything but you cant change what you came out with. Dont you know anything about the human mind?

So, gay people can chose to be straight? And vice versa?

 

[Asclepias]

That's true - but finish the sentence -I have nothing that you can refute - so you choose to deflect

Glad to see you admit you have nothing and no one can refute that.

That's true there is nothing I have that you can refute . Did that answer your question, or did it question your answer, in any event your reesponse was a questionable answer .

Dont confuse yourself trying to deflect. You havent supplied a link proving homosexuality was a mental illness. What happened? Did you hope I would forget?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You just accused me of being a hypocrite because I asked someone questions that pertain to their position. If that isn't an attack, what is it?

It wasn't an attack, but I will dropit because this circular garbage is rather pointless.

You havent seen anything yet. Quantum is a master at deflecting when caught in a lie.

He honestly wants people to believe he made a decision to be gay and was born without a sexual orientation.

You never caught me in a lie, you just claim that the words you posted mean something else.

 

[Asclepias]

If god is perfect, why didn't he ONLY give it to gays and drug users? Is god a fuck up?

He must be to have created ignorant, uneducated people such as you.

Heterosexuals predominately have herpes simplex. Men primarily are victims of Parkinson’s, women osteoporosis. Blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, and so on. Why did God create these?

sexual perverts gave theirself hiv aids not GOD!!! god is not willing that any perish but are free to choose HIV AIDS all you need do is live in sexual perversion! 40,000,000+ have paid the ""big"" price= death!

Tell that to all the children dying of AIDS each year. Your god is pretty heartless.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Gene's are traits that are passed on. In twins (or any family descent) one can get the gay gene while the other doesn't. Just like in heart disease. Two identical twins can be born and one inherits the gene that leads to coronary artery disease while the other doesn't.

Your argument is ridiculous.

How do monozygotic twins, which nave identical DNA, get different genes? Or did you not even read the blurb from the link I posted?

Keep telling me how smart and open minded you are, it amuses me.

I think westwall is referring to the difference between genotype and phenotype.

I think he doesn't know what he is referring to, and is upset that I caught him taking a position that is demonstrably false.

 

[Asclepias]

Why is everyone who knows they made a choice lying? Is there some sort of conspiracy? Are they delusional? Are you so close minded you cannot admit that you might not know everything?

Who said everyone that made a choice is lying? I said its not a choice when you are born what sex you are attracted to. You can make a choice later on but your initial sexual orientation is not determined by choice. You can convince yourself of pretty much anything but you cant change what you came out with. Dont you know anything about the human mind?

So, gay people can chose to be straight? And vice versa?

There are plenty of people that are/were gay and lived their lives as straight people and even have children. Jason Collins was engaged to be married to a woman at one point. I dont know why anyone would choose to be gay but I'm sure it has happened.

 

[kaz]

40,000,000 + Dead from HIV AIDS, another 40 million HIV positive, countless more millions living ruined lives ofguilt and shame and you say""whats the harm""????

If god is perfect, why didn't he ONLY give it to gays and drug users? Is god a fuck up?

He must be to have created ignorant, uneducated people such as you.

Heterosexuals predominately have herpes simplex. Men primarily are victims of Parkinson’s, women osteoporosis. Blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, and so on. Why did God create these?

You didn't understand his post correctly, he is making essentially the same point you did

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why did you pick it?

Why did you pick the shirt you wore today?

Because it was the one on the top of the pile.....

Pretty typical answer, and usually why I pick mine.

Thanks.

 

[GISMYS]

He must be to have created ignorant, uneducated people such as you.

Heterosexuals predominately have herpes simplex. Men primarily are victims of Parkinson’s, women osteoporosis. Blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, and so on. Why did God create these?

sexual perverts gave theirself hiv aids not GOD!!! god is not willing that any perish but are free to choose HIV AIDS all you need do is live in sexual perversion! 40,000,000+ have paid the ""big"" price= death!

Tell that to all the children dying of AIDS each year. Your god is pretty heartless.

yes!!! there is a cost to those around you when you live in sexual perversion, sexual perverts cause their partners and even children to die from aids then they try to blame GOD for the results of their sin!!! Typical!!!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How wrong you are. I am interested in facts. Truth is the purview of religion not science. To that end the definition of HERITABILITY is

1: the quality or state of being heritable


2: the proportion of observed variation in a particular trait (as height) that can be attributed to inherited genetic factors in contrast to environmental ones.

Heritability - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


YOUR link supporting what I said. Don't you dare lecture me about science when you don't even know what the basics are. This is a simple definition which you seem to not understand.

No it isn't, you said that homosexuality is genetic, That is flat out wrong, if it were all monozygotic twins would either be gay or straight. The studies show that this is not true.

Understanding Genetics

Did you notice that I, once again, used a link that disagrees with my position? Feel free to pretend to yourself that you are the one that is being unbiased and objective even though I have proved you wrong twice.

Twin studies of homosexuality have shown that identical twins are about twice as likely to both be gay compared to fraternal twins. This means that being gay is partly genetic and not simply something that a person learns or chooses to be.
There is one important thing to note, though. If the DNA sequence is the only thing determining whether someone is gay or not, we would expect that if one identical twin were gay, then the other would be too 100% of the time.
But this is not what scientists have found – the rate is actually closer to 50%. So while we know that genetics is involved, it doesn’t tell us the whole story. This is where environment comes in.

Boiled down , there appears there might be an inheritable factor / trait that increases the chances of of acquiring homosexual tendencies- but does not guarantee it. So they can theorize that ]in some cases there could conceivably be genetic factors that alter the odds of acquiring sexual dysphoric orientation , Ego-dystonic sexual orientation and related psychosis that equate to being Gay. .

That - in of itself does not prove that anyone is born gay - it simply proves that some people have a greater chance of becoming Gay. due to environmental factors , enhanced by genetic defect.

Sexual preference is not a psychosis.

 

[Asclepias]

sexual perverts gave theirself hiv aids not GOD!!! god is not willing that any perish but are free to choose HIV AIDS all you need do is live in sexual perversion! 40,000,000+ have paid the ""big"" price= death!

Tell that to all the children dying of AIDS each year. Your god is pretty heartless.

yes!!! there is a cost to those around you when you live in sexual perversion, sexual perverts cause their partners and even children to die from aids then they try to blame GOD for the results of their sin!!! Typical!!!

Usually how it works is you protect the innocent. Since the children are innocent your god should not allow them to contract AIDS. Your god seems to be the scorched earth type of guy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This above all: To thine own-self, be true.

I think Shakespeare had it right.

Is this discussion turning into a Bible discussion? Is this what the OP had in mind?

Any discussion about homosexuality is going to inevitably come around to religion since religion is the only groups against it. Minus religion, no one would be against it thus no need to discuss it.

I love it when people say stupid things.

The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage

 

[GISMYS]

No it isn't, you said that homosexuality is genetic, That is flat out wrong, if it were all monozygotic twins would either be gay or straight. The studies show that this is not true.

Understanding Genetics

Did you notice that I, once again, used a link that disagrees with my position? Feel free to pretend to yourself that you are the one that is being unbiased and objective even though I have proved you wrong twice.

Twin studies of homosexuality have shown that identical twins are about twice as likely to both be gay compared to fraternal twins. This means that being gay is partly genetic and not simply something that a person learns or chooses to be.
There is one important thing to note, though. If the DNA sequence is the only thing determining whether someone is gay or not, we would expect that if one identical twin were gay, then the other would be too 100% of the time.
But this is not what scientists have found – the rate is actually closer to 50%. So while we know that genetics is involved, it doesn’t tell us the whole story. This is where environment comes in.

Boiled down , there appears there might be an inheritable factor / trait that increases the chances of of acquiring homosexual tendencies- but does not guarantee it. So they can theorize that ]in some cases there could conceivably be genetic factors that alter the odds of acquiring sexual dysphoric orientation , Ego-dystonic sexual orientation and related psychosis that equate to being Gay. .

That - in of itself does not prove that anyone is born gay - it simply proves that some people have a greater chance of becoming Gay. due to environmental factors , enhanced by genetic defect.

Sexual preference is not a psychosis.

Sexual preference is a psychosis. the result of very poor sinful CHOICE!!!

 

[emilynghiem]

I think both things are going on, not either/or. Religions involve both absolute truth that "God" represents, and relative expression per group based on conformity.
In practice, the RELIGIONS themselves are used as cultural languages among a like community, so this is to help establish a "common language" and law that peers agree to live by.
In spirit, the CONTENT in religions all point toward universal laws that "God" represents. So it is both.

I actually by calling it "social" made his point less critical as "conformity" has a connotation of being motivated by a fear of being different while "social" doesn't. He didn't say conformity was a factor, he didn't even say it was both, he said it was the primary factor. That's not true with the Christians I know, the religion is very important to them. Which is why I suggested and suggest if he doesn't like them and doesn't understand them, he should probably not claim to know what motivates them. I said the same about them with him.

Thanks Kaz You clearly have more experience interacting and understanding this bias.

Since this is my first thread where we shared in greater depth, the most I could see was him pushing his own conformity in sticking to the topic and the psychological terms.

1. That could be one bias, because he insists on conformity he assumes this of others.
2. Because he does not see how any knowledge/research of 'spiritual healing' affects the data and research being "depended on for proof" of course, he does not know what is missing and how much impact that has on conclusions being made, even by professionals.
3. Similarly if he hasn't seen this concept work through natural laws and science, of course he's not going to get the same concept when it's 'dressed up' in religious symbolism either.

Kaz I can hardly expect anyone to understand the concepts before they see proof.
The top practictioners I recommend EACH had to "see and experience physical proof of this process FIRSTHAND" before they believed it, and then understood it AFTERWARD as natural. At first, it doesn't seem real or applicable! The mind cannot visualize in advance.

If you can please forgive the fact he doesn't have the understanding or perspective from that viewpoint, but is starting from what he can relate to, that's enough to explore.

This is his thread, can we start with wherever he asks to focus on and work from there?

I did not mean to jump on your comments either, and I apologize for any confusion Kaz.
The "conformity" I support is everyone agreeing to hear and respect each other's contributions, especially when correcting or clarifying. The views and beliefs remain diverse or conflicting, while interaction between us is unifying where our points align.

I call it "alignment" where it's clear we remain different and just find points of intersection and agreement, which is not the same as forcing conformity on people like making all believe the same.
Until someone actually goes through this process, how can they understand "aligning" what we each agree is true, and it isn't being pushed like "religious conformity for fear" or ulterior motives?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

what mistake? I would admit to them if I knew I what in God's name you were talking about.

Some scriptures in some versions of the old testament state that we should stone gays. But "versions of bibles" is a question even beyond versions of the old test.

Murder in the Bible

^The bible isn't evil. but people should know their talking points.

Agreed, religion in and of itself it's more about conformity than God

Now you are an expert on religion?

Feel free to start a thread about your expertise in religion so I can demonstrate to you all the ways you are wrong. But, for one example of a non conformist religion.

Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations - UUA