Is it possible for atheism to ever be anything more than critical theory?

[ding]

That is not responsive to my post.

Neither was yours.

I explained the link and the you tried to pretend there was no link.

So I thought I would explain it further so as to make it harder for you to ignore and create a distraction.

 

[well named]

you tried to pretend there was no link.

This is incorrect. I explicitly pointed out the link (all Marxists are atheists). I'm saying the link is irrelevant to the general conversation about atheism you seemed to be interested in before. If you want to talk about Marxism that's fine but you shouldn't pretend that a discussion about Marxism is particularly relevant to a discussion about atheism or atheists in general, or that anything you post about Marxists will apply to the overwhelming majority of atheists on this forum and in the US, since they are overwhelmingly not Marxists.

 

[ding]

you tried to pretend there was no link.

This is incorrect. I explicitly pointed out the link (all Marxists are atheists). I'm saying the link is irrelevant to the general conversation about atheism you seemed to be interested in before. If you want to talk about Marxism that's fine but you shouldn't pretend that a discussion about Marxism is particularly relevant to a discussion about atheism or atheists in general, or that anything you post about Marxists will apply to the overwhelming majority of atheists on this forum and in the US, since they are overwhelmingly not Marxists.

The link is to cultural marxism and critical theory. The atheists here don't even know they have been indoctrinated in it. Or do you need for me to explain that link too?

 

[dblack]

The link is to cultural marxism and critical theory. The atheists here don't even know they have been indoctrinated in it. Or do you need for me to explain that link too?

Awesome. So it's like secret brainwashing or something? Is there a trigger word that will cause me to go all crazy ninja?

 

[dblack]

you tried to pretend there was no link.

This is incorrect. I explicitly pointed out the link (all Marxists are atheists). I'm saying the link is irrelevant to the general conversation about atheism you seemed to be interested in before. If you want to talk about Marxism that's fine but you shouldn't pretend that a discussion about Marxism is particularly relevant to a discussion about atheism or atheists in general, or that anything you post about Marxists will apply to the overwhelming majority of atheists on this forum and in the US, since they are overwhelmingly not Marxists.

C'mon. It's basic logic. All Marxists are atheists, therefore all atheists are Marxists. Duh.

 

[toobfreak]

All people MUST be human does NOT equate to all Marxists tending toward a particular ideological framework.

I think you're confused about what ding and I were discussing, but if the example I gave doesn't help you see the problem with your logic than I'm afraid I'm not capable of assisting you further.

Your living fantasy is that you are even capable of "assisting" anyone, much less that anyone would want you to. You can't even help yourself.

 

[ding]

The link is to cultural marxism and critical theory. The atheists here don't even know they have been indoctrinated in it. Or do you need for me to explain that link too?

Awesome. So it's like secret brainwashing or something? Is there a trigger word that will cause me to go all crazy ninja?

Kind of like that. Google how to brainwash a nation and a former KGB colonel will explain it to you.

 

[ding]

you tried to pretend there was no link.

This is incorrect. I explicitly pointed out the link (all Marxists are atheists). I'm saying the link is irrelevant to the general conversation about atheism you seemed to be interested in before. If you want to talk about Marxism that's fine but you shouldn't pretend that a discussion about Marxism is particularly relevant to a discussion about atheism or atheists in general, or that anything you post about Marxists will apply to the overwhelming majority of atheists on this forum and in the US, since they are overwhelmingly not Marxists.

C'mon. It's basic logic. All Marxists are atheists, therefore all atheists are Marxists. Duh.

Not quite. But all militant atheists are either subversives or dupes of subversives.

 

[well named]

The link is to cultural marxism and critical theory. The atheists here don't even know they have been indoctrinated in it. Or do you need for me to explain that link too?

I thought we'd already dispensed with the claim that atheism was a critical theory. You do have a fondness for making bare assertions and not supporting them, so I think it would be useful for you to try to elaborate on your claim. However, you should try to avoid mischaracterizing either atheism or critical theory while doing so. Also, you should realize that posting links which describe Marxists as atheists does not actually support the claim that atheists here have been indoctrinated into Marxist beliefs or that they are dupes of subversives.

 

[dblack]

The link is to cultural marxism and critical theory. The atheists here don't even know they have been indoctrinated in it. Or do you need for me to explain that link too?

Awesome. So it's like secret brainwashing or something? Is there a trigger word that will cause me to go all crazy ninja?

Kind of like that. Google how to brainwash a nation and a former KGB colonel will explain it to you.

Does Alex Jones know about this?

 

[ding]

The link is to cultural marxism and critical theory. The atheists here don't even know they have been indoctrinated in it. Or do you need for me to explain that link too?

Awesome. So it's like secret brainwashing or something? Is there a trigger word that will cause me to go all crazy ninja?

Kind of like that. Google how to brainwash a nation and a former KGB colonel will explain it to you.

Does Alex Jones know about this?

The question is do you?

 

[ding]

The link is to cultural marxism and critical theory. The atheists here don't even know they have been indoctrinated in it. Or do you need for me to explain that link too?

I thought we'd already dispensed with the claim that atheism was a critical theory. You do have a fondness for making bare assertions and not supporting them, so I think it would be useful for you to try to elaborate on your claim. However, you should try to avoid mischaracterizing either atheism or critical theory while doing so. Also, you should realize that posting links which describe Marxists as atheists does not actually support the claim that atheists here have been indoctrinated into Marxist beliefs or that they are dupes of subversives.

Critical theory was invented by atheists who were behavior scientists for the express purpose of subordinating God, country and family.

 

[ding]

The link is to cultural marxism and critical theory. The atheists here don't even know they have been indoctrinated in it. Or do you need for me to explain that link too?

I thought we'd already dispensed with the claim that atheism was a critical theory. You do have a fondness for making bare assertions and not supporting them, so I think it would be useful for you to try to elaborate on your claim. However, you should try to avoid mischaracterizing either atheism or critical theory while doing so. Also, you should realize that posting links which describe Marxists as atheists does not actually support the claim that atheists here have been indoctrinated into Marxist beliefs or that they are dupes of subversives.

So you agree that Marxists are atheists and that their agenda requires atheism but you don’t believe that militant atheists aren’t Marxists or dupes of Marxists when they carry out the anti-religion agenda of Marxists? Is that correct?

Because I am willing to concede that atheists who do not carry out the anti-religion of Marxists are not Marxists or dupes of Marxists.

 

[edthecynic]

Is it that you don't believe that Cultural Marxists married the work of Freud to Marxism or is it that you don't see anything wrong with this type of subversive behavioral engineering?

Cultural Marxism is a meaningless term fabricated by subversive ConservoFascists practicing "Critical Theory" as you define it.

 

[edthecynic]

Critical theory was invented by atheists who were behavior scientists for the express purpose of subordinating God, country and family.

BULLSHIT!
Critical Theory, as you use it was invented by Right-wing America-hating ConservoFascists like you trying to destroy America from within.
See I can pontificate better than you!

 

[edthecynic]

The atheists here don't even know they have been indoctrinated in it.

Pure projection!
YOU don't even know you have been indoctrinated into ConservoFascism.

 

[edthecynic]

But all militant atheists are either subversives or dupes of subversives.

Says the ConservoFascist dupe!

 

[Karl Rand]

But all militant atheists are either subversives or dupes of subversives.

Says the ConservoFascist dupe!

Could some kind person please define that? Thanks.

 

[well named]

Critical theory was invented by atheists who were behavior scientists for the express purpose of subordinating God, country and family.

Critical theory was invented by Marxist philosophers and sociologists. I don't think there was a behavior scientist in the mix, but maybe I've forgotten someone. All of the famous theorists were in sociology and philosophy. The goals of critical theory are very directly connected with Marxism but only indirectly connected with atheism qua atheism (but see my response below). You could just go back and read the IEP article you linked before, or the SEP one I prefer. Either will confirm this.

So you agree that Marxists are atheists and that their agenda requires atheism but you don’t believe that militant atheists aren’t Marxists or dupes of Marxists when they carry out the anti-religion agenda of Marxists? Is that correct?

Because I am willing to concede that atheists who do not carry out the anti-religion of Marxists are not Marxists or dupes of Marxists.

Sure, I think a Marxist worldview is probably necessarily both atheistic and anti-religious. The former because of the insistence on materialism and the latter because it views religious institutions primarily as instruments of mystification serving bourgeois interests. The Communist Manifesto is pretty straightforward on this, and of course Marx's "opium of the masses" comment is famous.

I don't know exactly where you would set the bounds of "militant atheism" but it's clearly the case that many people we might classify as such are not Marxists. None of the most famous "new atheists" (e.g. Dennett, Harris, Hitchens, etc.) are Marxists, as far as I know. It seems like the mistake you are making is in thinking that if two groups of people share a common goal then they must either entirely share the same beliefs or that one group must be a dupe of the other. But that doesn't follow at all. To make an analogy, there are libertarian posters on this board with whom I share some views, for example opposition to excessive state power, or the war on drugs, or trends towards elements of a police state. But in other areas my views diverge sharply from theirs, e.g. progressive taxation and social policy. That fact that we have some overlapping aims and views does not make either of us dupes of the other.

Similarly, Marxists and "militant atheists" share an antipathy towards religion and some common goals about reducing the power of religious institutions. Some also share a belief in materialism, although the dialectical materialism of Marxism is sometimes a bit idiosyncratic. But otherwise members of these two groups often have very few other political views in common. Someone like Dennett is not attempting to foment a proletarian revolution.

And of course, as you concede, there are atheists who are not "militant atheists". From research I've seen on "the rise of the nones" and trends in religiosity I think it's very likely that the majority of self-identifying atheists are not a part of this group. Both this and the above considerations are why I've chided you for trying to conflate Marxism with atheism.

 

[ding]

Critical theory was invented by atheists who were behavior scientists for the express purpose of subordinating God, country and family.

Critical theory was invented by Marxist philosophers and sociologists. I don't think there was a behavior scientist in the mix, but maybe I've forgotten someone. All of the famous theorists were in sociology and philosophy. The goals of critical theory are very directly connected with Marxism but only indirectly connected with atheism qua atheism (but see my response below). You could just go back and read the IEP article you linked before, or the SEP one I prefer. Either will confirm this.

So you agree that Marxists are atheists and that their agenda requires atheism but you don’t believe that militant atheists aren’t Marxists or dupes of Marxists when they carry out the anti-religion agenda of Marxists? Is that correct?

Because I am willing to concede that atheists who do not carry out the anti-religion of Marxists are not Marxists or dupes of Marxists.

Sure, I think a Marxist worldview is probably necessarily both atheistic and anti-religious. The former because of the insistence on materialism and the latter because it views religious institutions primarily as instruments of mystification serving bourgeois interests. The Communist Manifesto is pretty straightforward on this, and of course Marx's "opium of the masses" comment is famous.

I don't know exactly where you would set the bounds of "militant atheism" but it's clearly the case that many people we might classify as such are not Marxists. None of the most famous "new atheists" (e.g. Dennett, Harris, Hitchens, etc.) are Marxists, as far as I know. It seems like the mistake you are making is in thinking that if two groups of people share a common goal then they must either entirely share the same beliefs or that one group must be a dupe of the other. But that doesn't follow at all. To make an analogy, there are libertarian posters on this board with whom I share some views, for example opposition to excessive state power, or the war on drugs, or trends towards elements of a police state. But in other areas my views diverge sharply from theirs, e.g. progressive taxation and social policy. That fact that we have some overlapping aims and views does not make either of us dupes of the other.

Similarly, Marxists and "militant atheists" share an antipathy towards religion and some common goals about reducing the power of religious institutions. Some also share a belief in materialism, although the dialectical materialism of Marxism is sometimes a bit idiosyncratic. But otherwise members of these two groups often have very few other political views in common. Someone like Dennett is not attempting to foment a proletarian revolution.

And of course, as you concede, there are atheists who are not "militant atheists". From research I've seen on "the rise of the nones" and trends in religiosity I think it's very likely that the majority of self-identifying atheists are not a part of this group. Both this and the above considerations are why I've chided you for trying to conflate Marxism with atheism.

Critical theory was developed by cultural Marxists who were behavior scientists.

So let’s stop right there because everything you wrote after that is based on a faulty assumption.

So either you are right about them being philosophers or I am right about them being behavioral scientists, right?

So let’s find out which. Fair enough?

Suggested reading would be the Frankfurt School.

Where should I go to learn that they were philosophers?