Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields

[Lastamender]

How about we go back farther than two hundred years. From 630AD until the late 17th century Islam spread terror through the Christian world. Did you forget that? Did you forget the slave trade was almost a monopoly for Islam?

And that if any Muslim disagrees with Mohammad he is wrong. Fundamental Islam is extreme by Western standards and always has been. The fact that Europeans occupied parts of the Islamic world speaks volumes about Islams stagnant and backward societies. Actually Europeans raised the standards of living in every country they controlled. They bought in electricity and built infrastructure for clean water.

And they showered money on the leaders of these countries that they squandered on themselves while their people starved. Blaming the West is a cop out and cowardice. You are tolerating intolerance, and I will repeat that is cowardice.

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

 

[nicoleivy5]

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

really

 

[Lastamender]

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

really

Really? Yep that is real, that is the way Mohammad wants it and that is the way ISIS does it. You are looking at Islam the way it was meant to be.

"Real" is a root of reality, and that is what it is.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

Oh, so now you've decided it's only about the New Testament. Talk about moving the goalposts. Don't Christians bother with the Old Testament then? Of course they do.

But I'll tell you what you've done, you've completely moved this argument away from what it was, and what it should be, to some nonsense about what the Bible says. It's meaningless so I'm not going to play your game.

As anyone who has ever studied the history of the region knows, Islam can be secular. This is a fact. Christianity can be violent.

Let me show you some facts to do with murder rates.

In the Far East there is only one Christian country. It's the Philippines. Their murder rate is 9.9. This is the second highest murder rate in the region behind Myanmar. I'm not sure why Myanmar's is so high, it was run by a military dictatorship and has been very secretive.

However the Philippines murder rate compared to it's neighbors is like this.

Muslim Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.3, yep, that's 30 times lower.
Majority Muslim Malaysia has a murder rate of 2.3
Singapore 0.3
China 0.8

Apart from Myanmar no other country comes anywhere near the Philippines murder rate.

The continents with the highest average murder rate, and has 39 of the top 40 murder capitals of the world are the Americas. All the countries of the Americas are Christian countries. The one city in the top 40 no in the Americas is Cape Town, in Christian South Africa.

Muslim countries like Algeria (1.5), Tunisia (3.1), Morocco (1.0), Niger (4.7) have low murder rates. Some of the Muslim countries have higher murder rates, often it can depend on the stability of the country.
However many of the Christian countries have far higher murder rates. South Africa (33.0), Lesotho (38.0), Swaziland (17.4), Namibia (17.2), DRC (13.5), certainly southern Africa is the worst for murder and crime.

It would seem the more Christianity there is around, the more violence there is around. So, it seems rather contradictory to suggest that Islam is all about violence when Islamic countries can have much lower murder rates.

You look at violence on the international stage. You have Muslims bombing Paris, Brussels, a few attacks in Germany, and then you realize that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it's not comparable at all. The US is far more aggressive. Aside from these two invasions the US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, plus troops in Haiti, Philippines, Columbia and Liberia, and this just post 9/11. Where do you see so many Muslim countries doing so much? You don't. The thing is the US isn't doing this in the name of Christianity. Christianity has become so loose that people can do whatever they like, and then get repentance every Sunday. This, to me, is condoning violence.

"What did you do this week?"
"Oh, I killed a million people"
"Well, God forgives you my son".

Oh, fucking wonderful. This is what modern Christianity has become. It condones violence.

Islam does too. I'm not saying Islam is good. I hate Islam as much or more than Christianity, but both are bad, both cause problems.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

really

Really? Yep that is real, that is the way Mohammad wants it and that is the way ISIS does it. You are looking at Islam the way it was meant to be.

"Real" is a root of reality, and that is what it is.

"The way it was meant to be", what is this nonsense? You're just using words, and nothing to back up your nonsense claims.

 

[IsaacNewton]

IsiL is dying and they want to cause as much misery as they can before the die. The Nazis were exactly the same, Hitler ordered the flooding of an underground subway that Germans citizens were using to shelter from the bombing as the Russians closed in. It had no military significance, it was just Hitler decided the whole German people should perish with him if they couldn't win the war. This is how the lowest of lowlifes think.

So it will be messy but IsiL is going bye bye. The Iraqis have learned to fight.

 

[Lastamender]

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

Oh, so now you've decided it's only about the New Testament. Talk about moving the goalposts. Don't Christians bother with the Old Testament then? Of course they do.

But I'll tell you what you've done, you've completely moved this argument away from what it was, and what it should be, to some nonsense about what the Bible says. It's meaningless so I'm not going to play your game.

As anyone who has ever studied the history of the region knows, Islam can be secular. This is a fact. Christianity can be violent.

Let me show you some facts to do with murder rates.

In the Far East there is only one Christian country. It's the Philippines. Their murder rate is 9.9. This is the second highest murder rate in the region behind Myanmar. I'm not sure why Myanmar's is so high, it was run by a military dictatorship and has been very secretive.

However the Philippines murder rate compared to it's neighbors is like this.

Muslim Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.3, yep, that's 30 times lower.
Majority Muslim Malaysia has a murder rate of 2.3
Singapore 0.3
China 0.8

Apart from Myanmar no other country comes anywhere near the Philippines murder rate.

The continents with the highest average murder rate, and has 39 of the top 40 murder capitals of the world are the Americas. All the countries of the Americas are Christian countries. The one city in the top 40 no in the Americas is Cape Town, in Christian South Africa.

Muslim countries like Algeria (1.5), Tunisia (3.1), Morocco (1.0), Niger (4.7) have low murder rates. Some of the Muslim countries have higher murder rates, often it can depend on the stability of the country.
However many of the Christian countries have far higher murder rates. South Africa (33.0), Lesotho (38.0), Swaziland (17.4), Namibia (17.2), DRC (13.5), certainly southern Africa is the worst for murder and crime.

It would seem the more Christianity there is around, the more violence there is around. So, it seems rather contradictory to suggest that Islam is all about violence when Islamic countries can have much lower murder rates.

You look at violence on the international stage. You have Muslims bombing Paris, Brussels, a few attacks in Germany, and then you realize that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it's not comparable at all. The US is far more aggressive. Aside from these two invasions the US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, plus troops in Haiti, Philippines, Columbia and Liberia, and this just post 9/11. Where do you see so many Muslim countries doing so much? You don't. The thing is the US isn't doing this in the name of Christianity. Christianity has become so loose that people can do whatever they like, and then get repentance every Sunday. This, to me, is condoning violence.

"What did you do this week?"
"Oh, I killed a million people"
"Well, God forgives you my son".

Oh, fucking wonderful. This is what modern Christianity has become. It condones violence.

Islam does too. I'm not saying Islam is good. I hate Islam as much or more than Christianity, but both are bad, both cause problems.

What does any of that change about Islamic doctrine and its open ended command for war and world domination? I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Until the Hadith is utterly rejected by all Muslims and destroyed, Islam is the greatest Evil and source of horror and war the world has ever known.

 

[Lastamender]

In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar, the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the perpetual energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it the audacious falsehood that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain by degrading the condition of the female sex and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared and undistinguishing and exterminating war, as part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. The essence of his doctrine was violence and lust: to exalt the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature... between these two religions, thus contrasted their characters, a war of 1200 years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant... while the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will toward men.
-John Q. Adams

Sans PC.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

Oh, so now you've decided it's only about the New Testament. Talk about moving the goalposts. Don't Christians bother with the Old Testament then? Of course they do.

But I'll tell you what you've done, you've completely moved this argument away from what it was, and what it should be, to some nonsense about what the Bible says. It's meaningless so I'm not going to play your game.

As anyone who has ever studied the history of the region knows, Islam can be secular. This is a fact. Christianity can be violent.

Let me show you some facts to do with murder rates.

In the Far East there is only one Christian country. It's the Philippines. Their murder rate is 9.9. This is the second highest murder rate in the region behind Myanmar. I'm not sure why Myanmar's is so high, it was run by a military dictatorship and has been very secretive.

However the Philippines murder rate compared to it's neighbors is like this.

Muslim Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.3, yep, that's 30 times lower.
Majority Muslim Malaysia has a murder rate of 2.3
Singapore 0.3
China 0.8

Apart from Myanmar no other country comes anywhere near the Philippines murder rate.

The continents with the highest average murder rate, and has 39 of the top 40 murder capitals of the world are the Americas. All the countries of the Americas are Christian countries. The one city in the top 40 no in the Americas is Cape Town, in Christian South Africa.

Muslim countries like Algeria (1.5), Tunisia (3.1), Morocco (1.0), Niger (4.7) have low murder rates. Some of the Muslim countries have higher murder rates, often it can depend on the stability of the country.
However many of the Christian countries have far higher murder rates. South Africa (33.0), Lesotho (38.0), Swaziland (17.4), Namibia (17.2), DRC (13.5), certainly southern Africa is the worst for murder and crime.

It would seem the more Christianity there is around, the more violence there is around. So, it seems rather contradictory to suggest that Islam is all about violence when Islamic countries can have much lower murder rates.

You look at violence on the international stage. You have Muslims bombing Paris, Brussels, a few attacks in Germany, and then you realize that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it's not comparable at all. The US is far more aggressive. Aside from these two invasions the US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, plus troops in Haiti, Philippines, Columbia and Liberia, and this just post 9/11. Where do you see so many Muslim countries doing so much? You don't. The thing is the US isn't doing this in the name of Christianity. Christianity has become so loose that people can do whatever they like, and then get repentance every Sunday. This, to me, is condoning violence.

"What did you do this week?"
"Oh, I killed a million people"
"Well, God forgives you my son".

Oh, fucking wonderful. This is what modern Christianity has become. It condones violence.

Islam does too. I'm not saying Islam is good. I hate Islam as much or more than Christianity, but both are bad, both cause problems.

What does any of that change about Islamic doctrine and its open ended command for war and world domination? I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Until the Hadith is utterly rejected by all Muslims and destroyed, Islam is the greatest Evil and source of horror and war the world has ever known.

And now you've just managed to convince yourself of something without understand where this came from. So you're just willing to ignore the past, pretend you don't need to know the past, pretend that Islam is just inherently violent and therefore is a problem because of this.

You're switching arguments all the time, and each time you manage to convince yourself that you're right because you've ignored everything.


The reality is that Islam doesn't need to be violent. What is written in the Koran and what people practice can be, and in most cases, are different.

Islam has become more and more violent due to the attacks from the West. Modern Jihad was born out of the British Empire's arrogance and has increased massively due to the US's attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and the US setting up the perfect environment for them to flourish.

Had the West taken a step back, Islam would not have been like this.

Now, the question is why is this important to know? Because if we keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again, as we have been doing for more than 200 years, Islam will become more and more violent and we'll have more and more problems.

But then this plays into the hands of the right who want the violence so they can fight against it and keep the people in their place with fear, and they find it easier to get elected too, because they only need to tell the people they'll bomb ISIS, nuke Iraq and millions of people will love it.

 

[Lastamender]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

Oh, so now you've decided it's only about the New Testament. Talk about moving the goalposts. Don't Christians bother with the Old Testament then? Of course they do.

But I'll tell you what you've done, you've completely moved this argument away from what it was, and what it should be, to some nonsense about what the Bible says. It's meaningless so I'm not going to play your game.

As anyone who has ever studied the history of the region knows, Islam can be secular. This is a fact. Christianity can be violent.

Let me show you some facts to do with murder rates.

In the Far East there is only one Christian country. It's the Philippines. Their murder rate is 9.9. This is the second highest murder rate in the region behind Myanmar. I'm not sure why Myanmar's is so high, it was run by a military dictatorship and has been very secretive.

However the Philippines murder rate compared to it's neighbors is like this.

Muslim Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.3, yep, that's 30 times lower.
Majority Muslim Malaysia has a murder rate of 2.3
Singapore 0.3
China 0.8

Apart from Myanmar no other country comes anywhere near the Philippines murder rate.

The continents with the highest average murder rate, and has 39 of the top 40 murder capitals of the world are the Americas. All the countries of the Americas are Christian countries. The one city in the top 40 no in the Americas is Cape Town, in Christian South Africa.

Muslim countries like Algeria (1.5), Tunisia (3.1), Morocco (1.0), Niger (4.7) have low murder rates. Some of the Muslim countries have higher murder rates, often it can depend on the stability of the country.
However many of the Christian countries have far higher murder rates. South Africa (33.0), Lesotho (38.0), Swaziland (17.4), Namibia (17.2), DRC (13.5), certainly southern Africa is the worst for murder and crime.

It would seem the more Christianity there is around, the more violence there is around. So, it seems rather contradictory to suggest that Islam is all about violence when Islamic countries can have much lower murder rates.

You look at violence on the international stage. You have Muslims bombing Paris, Brussels, a few attacks in Germany, and then you realize that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it's not comparable at all. The US is far more aggressive. Aside from these two invasions the US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, plus troops in Haiti, Philippines, Columbia and Liberia, and this just post 9/11. Where do you see so many Muslim countries doing so much? You don't. The thing is the US isn't doing this in the name of Christianity. Christianity has become so loose that people can do whatever they like, and then get repentance every Sunday. This, to me, is condoning violence.

"What did you do this week?"
"Oh, I killed a million people"
"Well, God forgives you my son".

Oh, fucking wonderful. This is what modern Christianity has become. It condones violence.

Islam does too. I'm not saying Islam is good. I hate Islam as much or more than Christianity, but both are bad, both cause problems.

What does any of that change about Islamic doctrine and its open ended command for war and world domination? I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Until the Hadith is utterly rejected by all Muslims and destroyed, Islam is the greatest Evil and source of horror and war the world has ever known.

And now you've just managed to convince yourself of something without understand where this came from. So you're just willing to ignore the past, pretend you don't need to know the past, pretend that Islam is just inherently violent and therefore is a problem because of this.

You're switching arguments all the time, and each time you manage to convince yourself that you're right because you've ignored everything.


The reality is that Islam doesn't need to be violent. What is written in the Koran and what people practice can be, and in most cases, are different.

Islam has become more and more violent due to the attacks from the West. Modern Jihad was born out of the British Empire's arrogance and has increased massively due to the US's attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and the US setting up the perfect environment for them to flourish.

Had the West taken a step back, Islam would not have been like this.

Now, the question is why is this important to know? Because if we keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again, as we have been doing for more than 200 years, Islam will become more and more violent and we'll have more and more problems.

But then this plays into the hands of the right who want the violence so they can fight against it and keep the people in their place with fear, and they find it easier to get elected too, because they only need to tell the people they'll bomb ISIS, nuke Iraq and millions of people will love it.

The reality is Islam is supposed to be violent. You need to admit that, and admit there are plenty of Muslims out there willing to be violent. You need to stop blaming our politics for causing anything.

Islam needs to be stopped and that is the bottom line. They get stronger everyday while idiots blame everyone else for a clear and violent doctrine that began 1400 years ago.

"Islam's Terrorist Dogma In Muhammad's Own Words." The very words of Muhammad himself make undeniable the claim that Muhammad was a terrorist ("I have been made victorious with terror!" "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them." "Crucify them or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides." etc.), and the claim that Islam is a terrorist organization established to fund the terrorism; Muhammad is shown leading seventy-five terrorist raids; he himself claimed his motive was money ("What is this religion? Muhammad claims Allah has sent him with this religion so that the treasures of Persia and Rome will be given to him by conquest.").

The Truth Project: Promoting the Dissemination of the Truth about Islam

 

[frigidweirdo]

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

Oh, so now you've decided it's only about the New Testament. Talk about moving the goalposts. Don't Christians bother with the Old Testament then? Of course they do.

But I'll tell you what you've done, you've completely moved this argument away from what it was, and what it should be, to some nonsense about what the Bible says. It's meaningless so I'm not going to play your game.

As anyone who has ever studied the history of the region knows, Islam can be secular. This is a fact. Christianity can be violent.

Let me show you some facts to do with murder rates.

In the Far East there is only one Christian country. It's the Philippines. Their murder rate is 9.9. This is the second highest murder rate in the region behind Myanmar. I'm not sure why Myanmar's is so high, it was run by a military dictatorship and has been very secretive.

However the Philippines murder rate compared to it's neighbors is like this.

Muslim Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.3, yep, that's 30 times lower.
Majority Muslim Malaysia has a murder rate of 2.3
Singapore 0.3
China 0.8

Apart from Myanmar no other country comes anywhere near the Philippines murder rate.

The continents with the highest average murder rate, and has 39 of the top 40 murder capitals of the world are the Americas. All the countries of the Americas are Christian countries. The one city in the top 40 no in the Americas is Cape Town, in Christian South Africa.

Muslim countries like Algeria (1.5), Tunisia (3.1), Morocco (1.0), Niger (4.7) have low murder rates. Some of the Muslim countries have higher murder rates, often it can depend on the stability of the country.
However many of the Christian countries have far higher murder rates. South Africa (33.0), Lesotho (38.0), Swaziland (17.4), Namibia (17.2), DRC (13.5), certainly southern Africa is the worst for murder and crime.

It would seem the more Christianity there is around, the more violence there is around. So, it seems rather contradictory to suggest that Islam is all about violence when Islamic countries can have much lower murder rates.

You look at violence on the international stage. You have Muslims bombing Paris, Brussels, a few attacks in Germany, and then you realize that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it's not comparable at all. The US is far more aggressive. Aside from these two invasions the US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, plus troops in Haiti, Philippines, Columbia and Liberia, and this just post 9/11. Where do you see so many Muslim countries doing so much? You don't. The thing is the US isn't doing this in the name of Christianity. Christianity has become so loose that people can do whatever they like, and then get repentance every Sunday. This, to me, is condoning violence.

"What did you do this week?"
"Oh, I killed a million people"
"Well, God forgives you my son".

Oh, fucking wonderful. This is what modern Christianity has become. It condones violence.

Islam does too. I'm not saying Islam is good. I hate Islam as much or more than Christianity, but both are bad, both cause problems.

What does any of that change about Islamic doctrine and its open ended command for war and world domination? I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Until the Hadith is utterly rejected by all Muslims and destroyed, Islam is the greatest Evil and source of horror and war the world has ever known.

And now you've just managed to convince yourself of something without understand where this came from. So you're just willing to ignore the past, pretend you don't need to know the past, pretend that Islam is just inherently violent and therefore is a problem because of this.

You're switching arguments all the time, and each time you manage to convince yourself that you're right because you've ignored everything.


The reality is that Islam doesn't need to be violent. What is written in the Koran and what people practice can be, and in most cases, are different.

Islam has become more and more violent due to the attacks from the West. Modern Jihad was born out of the British Empire's arrogance and has increased massively due to the US's attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and the US setting up the perfect environment for them to flourish.

Had the West taken a step back, Islam would not have been like this.

Now, the question is why is this important to know? Because if we keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again, as we have been doing for more than 200 years, Islam will become more and more violent and we'll have more and more problems.

But then this plays into the hands of the right who want the violence so they can fight against it and keep the people in their place with fear, and they find it easier to get elected too, because they only need to tell the people they'll bomb ISIS, nuke Iraq and millions of people will love it.

The reality is Islam is supposed to be violent. You need to admit that, and admit there are plenty of Muslims out there willing to be violent. You need to stop blaming our politics for causing anything.

Islam needs to be stopped and that is the bottom line. They get stronger everyday while idiots blame everyone else for a clear and violent doctrine that began 1400 years ago.

"Islam's Terrorist Dogma In Muhammad's Own Words." The very words of Muhammad himself make undeniable the claim that Muhammad was a terrorist ("I have been made victorious with terror!" "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them." "Crucify them or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides." etc.), and the claim that Islam is a terrorist organization established to fund the terrorism; Muhammad is shown leading seventy-five terrorist raids; he himself claimed his motive was money ("What is this religion? Muhammad claims Allah has sent him with this religion so that the treasures of Persia and Rome will be given to him by conquest.").

The Truth Project: Promoting the Dissemination of the Truth about Islam

Islam was based in a time when it was violent.

But just because something is "supposed to be violent" doesn't mean it is. War is supposed to be violent and yet war between North Korea and South Korea has been almost non-violent for 70 years. Supposed to and reality are different.

Are Christian countries, on average, more violent than Muslim countries? Yes they are. Is Christianity supposed to be violent? No it isn't, so why is it violent? Why were most of the combatants in WW2 Christian countries? WW1 was mostly Christian too. I've explain why I think it's violent, because Christianity allows people to gain redemption from doing anything. There is nothing that the Christian Churches wouldn't forgive.

You're basically telling yourself that because there are words of violence in the Koran, that therefore it must be violent and it's all inevitable. That's a poor argument. Why? Because we can see that many Muslim countries AREN'T violent. Then you say that the Bible talks about peace, it does, but this doesn't equate to less violence. So your argument is ignoring the reality of the situation.

So to say it's all inevitable is just plain wrong.

Islam needs to be stopped. Does the US not need to be stopped? I think most countries in the world, especially Muslims countries, believe this is so.

Islam will only revert to peace, if there is peace to be found, but it's not in the interests of the right in the US to have peace with Islam. So it'll get worse.

It's ironic that it was Bush and the right that caused ISIS, caused Islam to be more violent, and now they're calling for Islam to be stopped. They created the environment, and now they're fighting it. They do the same with crime at home. It's an age old tactic, it's sick, and I'm fed up with it.

 

[nicoleivy5]

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

yeah NT is the new testiment agreed

 

[Lastamender]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

Oh, so now you've decided it's only about the New Testament. Talk about moving the goalposts. Don't Christians bother with the Old Testament then? Of course they do.

But I'll tell you what you've done, you've completely moved this argument away from what it was, and what it should be, to some nonsense about what the Bible says. It's meaningless so I'm not going to play your game.

As anyone who has ever studied the history of the region knows, Islam can be secular. This is a fact. Christianity can be violent.

Let me show you some facts to do with murder rates.

In the Far East there is only one Christian country. It's the Philippines. Their murder rate is 9.9. This is the second highest murder rate in the region behind Myanmar. I'm not sure why Myanmar's is so high, it was run by a military dictatorship and has been very secretive.

However the Philippines murder rate compared to it's neighbors is like this.

Muslim Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.3, yep, that's 30 times lower.
Majority Muslim Malaysia has a murder rate of 2.3
Singapore 0.3
China 0.8

Apart from Myanmar no other country comes anywhere near the Philippines murder rate.

The continents with the highest average murder rate, and has 39 of the top 40 murder capitals of the world are the Americas. All the countries of the Americas are Christian countries. The one city in the top 40 no in the Americas is Cape Town, in Christian South Africa.

Muslim countries like Algeria (1.5), Tunisia (3.1), Morocco (1.0), Niger (4.7) have low murder rates. Some of the Muslim countries have higher murder rates, often it can depend on the stability of the country.
However many of the Christian countries have far higher murder rates. South Africa (33.0), Lesotho (38.0), Swaziland (17.4), Namibia (17.2), DRC (13.5), certainly southern Africa is the worst for murder and crime.

It would seem the more Christianity there is around, the more violence there is around. So, it seems rather contradictory to suggest that Islam is all about violence when Islamic countries can have much lower murder rates.

You look at violence on the international stage. You have Muslims bombing Paris, Brussels, a few attacks in Germany, and then you realize that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it's not comparable at all. The US is far more aggressive. Aside from these two invasions the US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, plus troops in Haiti, Philippines, Columbia and Liberia, and this just post 9/11. Where do you see so many Muslim countries doing so much? You don't. The thing is the US isn't doing this in the name of Christianity. Christianity has become so loose that people can do whatever they like, and then get repentance every Sunday. This, to me, is condoning violence.

"What did you do this week?"
"Oh, I killed a million people"
"Well, God forgives you my son".

Oh, fucking wonderful. This is what modern Christianity has become. It condones violence.

Islam does too. I'm not saying Islam is good. I hate Islam as much or more than Christianity, but both are bad, both cause problems.

What does any of that change about Islamic doctrine and its open ended command for war and world domination? I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Until the Hadith is utterly rejected by all Muslims and destroyed, Islam is the greatest Evil and source of horror and war the world has ever known.

And now you've just managed to convince yourself of something without understand where this came from. So you're just willing to ignore the past, pretend you don't need to know the past, pretend that Islam is just inherently violent and therefore is a problem because of this.

You're switching arguments all the time, and each time you manage to convince yourself that you're right because you've ignored everything.


The reality is that Islam doesn't need to be violent. What is written in the Koran and what people practice can be, and in most cases, are different.

Islam has become more and more violent due to the attacks from the West. Modern Jihad was born out of the British Empire's arrogance and has increased massively due to the US's attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and the US setting up the perfect environment for them to flourish.

Had the West taken a step back, Islam would not have been like this.

Now, the question is why is this important to know? Because if we keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again, as we have been doing for more than 200 years, Islam will become more and more violent and we'll have more and more problems.

But then this plays into the hands of the right who want the violence so they can fight against it and keep the people in their place with fear, and they find it easier to get elected too, because they only need to tell the people they'll bomb ISIS, nuke Iraq and millions of people will love it.

The only mistake we are making is allowing Islam to spread. If they wish to live that way let them stay there. They refuse to assimilate in Europe. There are separate enclaves in America You can babble about fear when it is awareness and knowing the enemy will not compromise and that violence is their solution to everything.

Through out history has only been stopped militarily. It is far past time for decisive action. You go ahead and put the blame everywhere but where it belongs. While you do that more die and Islam gets stronger. Your kind of whining only enables these assholes. Snap the fuck out of it.

 

[Lastamender]

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

yeah NT is the new testiment agreed

I see you are an NT also. A New Troll.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields - full article

"At least 200 Iraqi families have been made to leave their homes for Mosul by Islamic State (IS) fighters and could be used as human shields, the UN warns.

A coalition of forces began an advance on the IS-held city, the second largest in Iraq, on Monday.

The UN human rights office says IS made the 200 families walk to Mosul from a nearby village on the same day."

Tear Up the Air-Conditioned Ethics of the Geneva Convention

There are no non-combatants in a combat zone, the forces against ISIS should make Mosul a free-fire zone. If the "civilians" surrendered to the enemy, they are the enemy.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields - full article

"At least 200 Iraqi families have been made to leave their homes for Mosul by Islamic State (IS) fighters and could be used as human shields, the UN warns.

A coalition of forces began an advance on the IS-held city, the second largest in Iraq, on Monday.

The UN human rights office says IS made the 200 families walk to Mosul from a nearby village on the same day."

Ah, the consequences of going to war in Iraq.

The consequences of Islam. They hate us because we do not believe what they do. It is Islams doctrine and ISIS follows it to the letter. They are doing what Mohammad did. To blame their obligation as Muslims on us is just bullshit.

Echoes of a Prehistoric Horror

Long before Mohammed, these thrill-killing Neanderthal bandits were enemies of the human race. What would ever have made them settle in No Man's Land unless they were driven there as criminal fugitives?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.

NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

Oh, so now you've decided it's only about the New Testament. Talk about moving the goalposts. Don't Christians bother with the Old Testament then? Of course they do.

But I'll tell you what you've done, you've completely moved this argument away from what it was, and what it should be, to some nonsense about what the Bible says. It's meaningless so I'm not going to play your game.

As anyone who has ever studied the history of the region knows, Islam can be secular. This is a fact. Christianity can be violent.

Let me show you some facts to do with murder rates.

In the Far East there is only one Christian country. It's the Philippines. Their murder rate is 9.9. This is the second highest murder rate in the region behind Myanmar. I'm not sure why Myanmar's is so high, it was run by a military dictatorship and has been very secretive.

However the Philippines murder rate compared to it's neighbors is like this.

Muslim Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.3, yep, that's 30 times lower.
Majority Muslim Malaysia has a murder rate of 2.3
Singapore 0.3
China 0.8

Apart from Myanmar no other country comes anywhere near the Philippines murder rate.

The continents with the highest average murder rate, and has 39 of the top 40 murder capitals of the world are the Americas. All the countries of the Americas are Christian countries. The one city in the top 40 no in the Americas is Cape Town, in Christian South Africa.

Muslim countries like Algeria (1.5), Tunisia (3.1), Morocco (1.0), Niger (4.7) have low murder rates. Some of the Muslim countries have higher murder rates, often it can depend on the stability of the country.
However many of the Christian countries have far higher murder rates. South Africa (33.0), Lesotho (38.0), Swaziland (17.4), Namibia (17.2), DRC (13.5), certainly southern Africa is the worst for murder and crime.

It would seem the more Christianity there is around, the more violence there is around. So, it seems rather contradictory to suggest that Islam is all about violence when Islamic countries can have much lower murder rates.

You look at violence on the international stage. You have Muslims bombing Paris, Brussels, a few attacks in Germany, and then you realize that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it's not comparable at all. The US is far more aggressive. Aside from these two invasions the US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, plus troops in Haiti, Philippines, Columbia and Liberia, and this just post 9/11. Where do you see so many Muslim countries doing so much? You don't. The thing is the US isn't doing this in the name of Christianity. Christianity has become so loose that people can do whatever they like, and then get repentance every Sunday. This, to me, is condoning violence.

"What did you do this week?"
"Oh, I killed a million people"
"Well, God forgives you my son".

Oh, fucking wonderful. This is what modern Christianity has become. It condones violence.

Islam does too. I'm not saying Islam is good. I hate Islam as much or more than Christianity, but both are bad, both cause problems.

What does any of that change about Islamic doctrine and its open ended command for war and world domination? I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Until the Hadith is utterly rejected by all Muslims and destroyed, Islam is the greatest Evil and source of horror and war the world has ever known.

And now you've just managed to convince yourself of something without understand where this came from. So you're just willing to ignore the past, pretend you don't need to know the past, pretend that Islam is just inherently violent and therefore is a problem because of this.

You're switching arguments all the time, and each time you manage to convince yourself that you're right because you've ignored everything.


The reality is that Islam doesn't need to be violent. What is written in the Koran and what people practice can be, and in most cases, are different.

Islam has become more and more violent due to the attacks from the West. Modern Jihad was born out of the British Empire's arrogance and has increased massively due to the US's attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and the US setting up the perfect environment for them to flourish.

Had the West taken a step back, Islam would not have been like this.

Now, the question is why is this important to know? Because if we keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again, as we have been doing for more than 200 years, Islam will become more and more violent and we'll have more and more problems.

But then this plays into the hands of the right who want the violence so they can fight against it and keep the people in their place with fear, and they find it easier to get elected too, because they only need to tell the people they'll bomb ISIS, nuke Iraq and millions of people will love it.

The only mistake we are making is allowing Islam to spread. If they wish to live that way let them stay there. They refuse to assimilate in Europe. There are separate enclaves in America You can babble about fear when it is awareness and knowing the enemy will not compromise and that violence is their solution to everything.

Through out history has only been stopped militarily. It is far past time for decisive action. You go ahead and put the blame everywhere but where it belongs. While you do that more die and Islam gets stronger. Your kind of whining only enables these assholes. Snap the fuck out of it.

You don't really see the problem. You're talking about "allowing Islam to spread" as if A) you can do anything about it and B) you are somehow the world's police. This is the exact reason why Islam has become more violent in the first place.

The problem is, during this whole discussion between you and me, you've refused to look at the reality of the situation. All you see is the scaremongering and the nonsense that has been coming out about Islam, you're playing into the hands of the right wing who want this common enemy so they can spend even more of your money on the military, and put fear into your lives so you become more malleable.

 

[Lastamender]

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?
NT is the New Testament. Find the sanctioning of violence or terror in there. I can easily back up what I say. The Koran has 109 verses that advocate everything I have said, The Hadith has Mohammad doing the things ISIS does now. Islamic literature tells anyone that can read what Islam is. And the more you know about Mohammad the more you know about Islam.

The Quran's Verses of Violence

Oh, so now you've decided it's only about the New Testament. Talk about moving the goalposts. Don't Christians bother with the Old Testament then? Of course they do.

But I'll tell you what you've done, you've completely moved this argument away from what it was, and what it should be, to some nonsense about what the Bible says. It's meaningless so I'm not going to play your game.

As anyone who has ever studied the history of the region knows, Islam can be secular. This is a fact. Christianity can be violent.

Let me show you some facts to do with murder rates.

In the Far East there is only one Christian country. It's the Philippines. Their murder rate is 9.9. This is the second highest murder rate in the region behind Myanmar. I'm not sure why Myanmar's is so high, it was run by a military dictatorship and has been very secretive.

However the Philippines murder rate compared to it's neighbors is like this.

Muslim Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.3, yep, that's 30 times lower.
Majority Muslim Malaysia has a murder rate of 2.3
Singapore 0.3
China 0.8

Apart from Myanmar no other country comes anywhere near the Philippines murder rate.

The continents with the highest average murder rate, and has 39 of the top 40 murder capitals of the world are the Americas. All the countries of the Americas are Christian countries. The one city in the top 40 no in the Americas is Cape Town, in Christian South Africa.

Muslim countries like Algeria (1.5), Tunisia (3.1), Morocco (1.0), Niger (4.7) have low murder rates. Some of the Muslim countries have higher murder rates, often it can depend on the stability of the country.
However many of the Christian countries have far higher murder rates. South Africa (33.0), Lesotho (38.0), Swaziland (17.4), Namibia (17.2), DRC (13.5), certainly southern Africa is the worst for murder and crime.

It would seem the more Christianity there is around, the more violence there is around. So, it seems rather contradictory to suggest that Islam is all about violence when Islamic countries can have much lower murder rates.

You look at violence on the international stage. You have Muslims bombing Paris, Brussels, a few attacks in Germany, and then you realize that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it's not comparable at all. The US is far more aggressive. Aside from these two invasions the US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, plus troops in Haiti, Philippines, Columbia and Liberia, and this just post 9/11. Where do you see so many Muslim countries doing so much? You don't. The thing is the US isn't doing this in the name of Christianity. Christianity has become so loose that people can do whatever they like, and then get repentance every Sunday. This, to me, is condoning violence.

"What did you do this week?"
"Oh, I killed a million people"
"Well, God forgives you my son".

Oh, fucking wonderful. This is what modern Christianity has become. It condones violence.

Islam does too. I'm not saying Islam is good. I hate Islam as much or more than Christianity, but both are bad, both cause problems.

What does any of that change about Islamic doctrine and its open ended command for war and world domination? I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Until the Hadith is utterly rejected by all Muslims and destroyed, Islam is the greatest Evil and source of horror and war the world has ever known.

And now you've just managed to convince yourself of something without understand where this came from. So you're just willing to ignore the past, pretend you don't need to know the past, pretend that Islam is just inherently violent and therefore is a problem because of this.

You're switching arguments all the time, and each time you manage to convince yourself that you're right because you've ignored everything.


The reality is that Islam doesn't need to be violent. What is written in the Koran and what people practice can be, and in most cases, are different.

Islam has become more and more violent due to the attacks from the West. Modern Jihad was born out of the British Empire's arrogance and has increased massively due to the US's attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and the US setting up the perfect environment for them to flourish.

Had the West taken a step back, Islam would not have been like this.

Now, the question is why is this important to know? Because if we keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again, as we have been doing for more than 200 years, Islam will become more and more violent and we'll have more and more problems.

But then this plays into the hands of the right who want the violence so they can fight against it and keep the people in their place with fear, and they find it easier to get elected too, because they only need to tell the people they'll bomb ISIS, nuke Iraq and millions of people will love it.

The only mistake we are making is allowing Islam to spread. If they wish to live that way let them stay there. They refuse to assimilate in Europe. There are separate enclaves in America You can babble about fear when it is awareness and knowing the enemy will not compromise and that violence is their solution to everything.

Through out history has only been stopped militarily. It is far past time for decisive action. You go ahead and put the blame everywhere but where it belongs. While you do that more die and Islam gets stronger. Your kind of whining only enables these assholes. Snap the fuck out of it.

You don't really see the problem. You're talking about "allowing Islam to spread" as if A) you can do anything about it and B) you are somehow the world's police. This is the exact reason why Islam has become more violent in the first place.

The problem is, during this whole discussion between you and me, you've refused to look at the reality of the situation. All you see is the scaremongering and the nonsense that has been coming out about Islam, you're playing into the hands of the right wing who want this common enemy so they can spend even more of your money on the military, and put fear into your lives so you become more malleable.

You are the one who is not looking at the reality. This is a ruthless enemy that believes their belief system must rule the world. And it is widely supported by a large percentage of Muslims. Check the Pew polls and you will find out.

Islam needs to be shunned and shamed for what it is, not what we are told it is by apologists and dhimmis.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, so now you've decided it's only about the New Testament. Talk about moving the goalposts. Don't Christians bother with the Old Testament then? Of course they do.

But I'll tell you what you've done, you've completely moved this argument away from what it was, and what it should be, to some nonsense about what the Bible says. It's meaningless so I'm not going to play your game.

As anyone who has ever studied the history of the region knows, Islam can be secular. This is a fact. Christianity can be violent.

Let me show you some facts to do with murder rates.

In the Far East there is only one Christian country. It's the Philippines. Their murder rate is 9.9. This is the second highest murder rate in the region behind Myanmar. I'm not sure why Myanmar's is so high, it was run by a military dictatorship and has been very secretive.

However the Philippines murder rate compared to it's neighbors is like this.

Muslim Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.3, yep, that's 30 times lower.
Majority Muslim Malaysia has a murder rate of 2.3
Singapore 0.3
China 0.8

Apart from Myanmar no other country comes anywhere near the Philippines murder rate.

The continents with the highest average murder rate, and has 39 of the top 40 murder capitals of the world are the Americas. All the countries of the Americas are Christian countries. The one city in the top 40 no in the Americas is Cape Town, in Christian South Africa.

Muslim countries like Algeria (1.5), Tunisia (3.1), Morocco (1.0), Niger (4.7) have low murder rates. Some of the Muslim countries have higher murder rates, often it can depend on the stability of the country.
However many of the Christian countries have far higher murder rates. South Africa (33.0), Lesotho (38.0), Swaziland (17.4), Namibia (17.2), DRC (13.5), certainly southern Africa is the worst for murder and crime.

It would seem the more Christianity there is around, the more violence there is around. So, it seems rather contradictory to suggest that Islam is all about violence when Islamic countries can have much lower murder rates.

You look at violence on the international stage. You have Muslims bombing Paris, Brussels, a few attacks in Germany, and then you realize that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it's not comparable at all. The US is far more aggressive. Aside from these two invasions the US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, plus troops in Haiti, Philippines, Columbia and Liberia, and this just post 9/11. Where do you see so many Muslim countries doing so much? You don't. The thing is the US isn't doing this in the name of Christianity. Christianity has become so loose that people can do whatever they like, and then get repentance every Sunday. This, to me, is condoning violence.

"What did you do this week?"
"Oh, I killed a million people"
"Well, God forgives you my son".

Oh, fucking wonderful. This is what modern Christianity has become. It condones violence.

Islam does too. I'm not saying Islam is good. I hate Islam as much or more than Christianity, but both are bad, both cause problems.

What does any of that change about Islamic doctrine and its open ended command for war and world domination? I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Until the Hadith is utterly rejected by all Muslims and destroyed, Islam is the greatest Evil and source of horror and war the world has ever known.

And now you've just managed to convince yourself of something without understand where this came from. So you're just willing to ignore the past, pretend you don't need to know the past, pretend that Islam is just inherently violent and therefore is a problem because of this.

You're switching arguments all the time, and each time you manage to convince yourself that you're right because you've ignored everything.


The reality is that Islam doesn't need to be violent. What is written in the Koran and what people practice can be, and in most cases, are different.

Islam has become more and more violent due to the attacks from the West. Modern Jihad was born out of the British Empire's arrogance and has increased massively due to the US's attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and the US setting up the perfect environment for them to flourish.

Had the West taken a step back, Islam would not have been like this.

Now, the question is why is this important to know? Because if we keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again, as we have been doing for more than 200 years, Islam will become more and more violent and we'll have more and more problems.

But then this plays into the hands of the right who want the violence so they can fight against it and keep the people in their place with fear, and they find it easier to get elected too, because they only need to tell the people they'll bomb ISIS, nuke Iraq and millions of people will love it.

The only mistake we are making is allowing Islam to spread. If they wish to live that way let them stay there. They refuse to assimilate in Europe. There are separate enclaves in America You can babble about fear when it is awareness and knowing the enemy will not compromise and that violence is their solution to everything.

Through out history has only been stopped militarily. It is far past time for decisive action. You go ahead and put the blame everywhere but where it belongs. While you do that more die and Islam gets stronger. Your kind of whining only enables these assholes. Snap the fuck out of it.

You don't really see the problem. You're talking about "allowing Islam to spread" as if A) you can do anything about it and B) you are somehow the world's police. This is the exact reason why Islam has become more violent in the first place.

The problem is, during this whole discussion between you and me, you've refused to look at the reality of the situation. All you see is the scaremongering and the nonsense that has been coming out about Islam, you're playing into the hands of the right wing who want this common enemy so they can spend even more of your money on the military, and put fear into your lives so you become more malleable.

You are the one who is not looking at the reality. This is a ruthless enemy that believes their belief system must rule the world. And it is widely supported by a large percentage of Muslims. Check the Pew polls and you will find out.

Islam needs to be shunned and shamed for what it is, not what we are told it is by apologists and dhimmis.

And again, why are they ruthless? They're ruthless because the more fighting they do, the more they become ruthless. And the fighting has come from fighting the West IN THEIR OWN LANDS. If you go to Iraq and set up a petri dish for ISIS, and then complain that ISIS is bad and evil, then who can you blame? Well you can only really blame those who set up those conditions, and they go by the name of Bremer and Bush and they did it in the name of the USA.

Fine, let's shame Islam for what it is. There's a lot to be ashamed about in my view. But you're only looking at Islam. Why aren't you looking at your own house? The US has EVEN MORE to be ashamed about.

Going to Iraq to try and weaken OPEC and basically makes up "intelligence" to convince the people to go to war. Then once the war is won, they set about being so incompetent at rebuilding the nation that ISIS thrives.

And that's only one thing.

 

[Lastamender]

What does any of that change about Islamic doctrine and its open ended command for war and world domination? I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Until the Hadith is utterly rejected by all Muslims and destroyed, Islam is the greatest Evil and source of horror and war the world has ever known.

And now you've just managed to convince yourself of something without understand where this came from. So you're just willing to ignore the past, pretend you don't need to know the past, pretend that Islam is just inherently violent and therefore is a problem because of this.

You're switching arguments all the time, and each time you manage to convince yourself that you're right because you've ignored everything.


The reality is that Islam doesn't need to be violent. What is written in the Koran and what people practice can be, and in most cases, are different.

Islam has become more and more violent due to the attacks from the West. Modern Jihad was born out of the British Empire's arrogance and has increased massively due to the US's attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and the US setting up the perfect environment for them to flourish.

Had the West taken a step back, Islam would not have been like this.

Now, the question is why is this important to know? Because if we keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again, as we have been doing for more than 200 years, Islam will become more and more violent and we'll have more and more problems.

But then this plays into the hands of the right who want the violence so they can fight against it and keep the people in their place with fear, and they find it easier to get elected too, because they only need to tell the people they'll bomb ISIS, nuke Iraq and millions of people will love it.

The only mistake we are making is allowing Islam to spread. If they wish to live that way let them stay there. They refuse to assimilate in Europe. There are separate enclaves in America You can babble about fear when it is awareness and knowing the enemy will not compromise and that violence is their solution to everything.

Through out history has only been stopped militarily. It is far past time for decisive action. You go ahead and put the blame everywhere but where it belongs. While you do that more die and Islam gets stronger. Your kind of whining only enables these assholes. Snap the fuck out of it.

You don't really see the problem. You're talking about "allowing Islam to spread" as if A) you can do anything about it and B) you are somehow the world's police. This is the exact reason why Islam has become more violent in the first place.

The problem is, during this whole discussion between you and me, you've refused to look at the reality of the situation. All you see is the scaremongering and the nonsense that has been coming out about Islam, you're playing into the hands of the right wing who want this common enemy so they can spend even more of your money on the military, and put fear into your lives so you become more malleable.

You are the one who is not looking at the reality. This is a ruthless enemy that believes their belief system must rule the world. And it is widely supported by a large percentage of Muslims. Check the Pew polls and you will find out.

Islam needs to be shunned and shamed for what it is, not what we are told it is by apologists and dhimmis.

And again, why are they ruthless? They're ruthless because the more fighting they do, the more they become ruthless. And the fighting has come from fighting the West IN THEIR OWN LANDS. If you go to Iraq and set up a petri dish for ISIS, and then complain that ISIS is bad and evil, then who can you blame? Well you can only really blame those who set up those conditions, and they go by the name of Bremer and Bush and they did it in the name of the USA.

Fine, let's shame Islam for what it is. There's a lot to be ashamed about in my view. But you're only looking at Islam. Why aren't you looking at your own house? The US has EVEN MORE to be ashamed about.

Going to Iraq to try and weaken OPEC and basically makes up "intelligence" to convince the people to go to war. Then once the war is won, they set about being so incompetent at rebuilding the nation that ISIS thrives.

And that's only one thing.

Fuck rebuilding anything. Let Islamists take care of their own. No aid humanitarian or otherwise. That will finally destroy Islam when their followers see how terrible the belief system is. And how if it cannot take what is not theirs the Islamic belief system will rot on the vine.