Israel dismisses 2 officers over deadly drone strikes on aid workers in Gaza

This is a fascinating line of questioning... (possibly deserving its own thread). Who is responsible for "the day after"?
Complicated isn’t it? Particularly given it seems to be a no-man’s land.



I'm trying to think of another instance where a sovereign State was attacked by another government and the attacked State was the one required to both have a plan and to implement a plan for re-structuring and re-placing the belligerent government, while also avoiding the charge of "occupation".
That is a bit of a misrepresentation of the situation, but I’ll bite.


First Point: Israel is wanting international backing for its offensive, even demanding it. That gives it greater legitimacy in the international community and more resources to fight with (intelligence sharing, weaponry, funds). This isn’t unique by any means. Look at the Ukraine conflict. There has been an outpouring of international support and resources, Zelenski has toured the world begging for support AND Ukraine has been very careful in how it is using these weapons. It has been careful to an avoid civilian targets and high civilian casualties and it has also been very careful in regards to targeting anything inside Russia itself. Not doing so risks escalating the conflict and also losing the international support and legitimacy.

2nd Point: having a plan for restructuring, replacing etc. That again is not unique and it is not unreasonable for Israel’s allies, who are providing material support to the war, to ask about what is the plan for the “day after”. It is also not unreasonable for other countries in the region who’s own security interests are directly effected, to pressure Israel to have some sort of framework in order to prevent a power vacuum or an even worse humanitarian catastrophe which in turn could lead to an increase in terrorism world wide.

It is on Israel in part, because Israel is in control of the territory and thus the outcome now. It stated that pretty clearly. That leads to the next point: reconstruction. There are so many variables here. I doubt anyone expects Israel to completely fund it, if at all. It must be an international effort. But Israel is the key player and the only who has veto power on any plan.

But…if Israel holds on to it, in any fashion - then what? What sort of framework can be worked out with the international community, which is already fracturing under the civilian casualty numbers and sheer destruction now seen in Gaza, to convince them to fund reconstruction without some form of recognition of the rights of the Palestinian people?

Again, Israel is not unique…there are parallels to the US and Afghanistan and Iraq. The US had tremendous international support after 911, and we built quite a coalition to support the effort. Israel also had tremendous support after 10/7 and a strong coalition. We squandered that when we went into Iraq (but that is a mess for another topic).

Israel is at risk, if it hasn’t already, of squandering the good will and support it had gained by the way it is conducting it’s war. We lost support over Guantanamo, allegations of torture, etc. etc. We called to task over abuses by private contractors. All rightfully so. That’s just off the top of my head.

The other way Israel is not unique…reconstruction. The international coalition who took part in the war supported a reconstruction plan, but the US took the lead. If I remember correctly, there was pressure on us to come up with a plan because NO ONE, including the US wanted to leave Afghanistan with a power vacuum and also because we took the lead in the war. They attacked us, but that did not absolve us of a moral (imo) responsibility to have plan in place for when the conflict ended. I suppose there are also parallels with WW2 and the Marshall Plan.

Now…the charge of occupation…also not unique. We faced that in both Iraq and Afghanistan. In order to avoid it you need a plan that includes setting the conditions to leave and then actually leaving.
Yeah, there is going to be a power vacuum. But who is responsible for filling that power vacuum? Should the UN or the "international community" assert some sort of authority with an international peace-keeping and government-building force? Should there be an application of a new mandate and temporary oversight by a third party? Should the attacked State be forced or required to re-occupy (or * cough * continue to occupy) the territory? Should the territory be required self-determine?
All good questions, but again…the “attacked state” took the lead in forming a coalition and developing a strategy in Afghanistan, so no need to cough.

The short answer is it must involve the international community but that support is at great risk now because of the way the war has been conducted and the humanitarian disaster that has been created.
 
They’re not doing that. They’re going in with ground forces. If they wanted to complete a genocide against the Palestinians they’d complete in it one day you dishonest fuck.

Not really. I mean, yeah, I guess they could nuke the place, but then they'd be irradiating that valuable land.

the Zionists aren't ten feet tall. In fact, their military record is kind of spotty, at best.
 
...Particularly given it seems to be a no-man’s land.
But this illuminates the problem, does it not? What you mean when you describe the territory as "no man's land" is that you are expecting (hoping for) a peanut butter and jelly sandwich when there is no peanut butter, no jelly, and no bread.
...to pressure Israel to have some sort of framework in order to prevent a power vacuum
Israel isn't trying to prevent a power vacuum. Literally, what Israel NEEDs to do is create that power vacuum (because the power in question is abhorrent, and destructively evil, and harmful to both Israel and Gaza citizens). The question on the table is WHO is going to step up to fill that vacuum. If your answer is: "Hamas, other militant groups or warlords", it only demonstrates the lack of capacity for the people of Gaza (Palestine) to create a functioning nation.

...without some form of recognition of the rights of the Palestinian people?
The problem is not with the "recognition", but the will and the capacity and the actualization of the people of Gaza (or "Palestine") to step up to fill that vacuum. If the people of Gaza are not capable of filing that vacuum (and they are most clearly NOT, so very NOT), then there is no point in calling for them to fill in the vacuum with vague political hand-waving of "recognition". Accept reality.
...you need a plan that includes setting the conditions to leave and then actually leaving.
Why are we still talking about the conditions? The conditions are easy and not especially under dispute. Are they? So, let's square this circle. A people seeks self-determination. An existing State is prepared to accommodate this desire. What are the conditions that must be performed by the accommodating State to satisfy the requirement "to leave and then actually leaving"?
 
Please list those reasons.
Sure. Where to start? Let's pick two.

To what extent are Ukrainian children recruited, trained, and employed as child soldiers in the conflict?

To what extent are Ukrainian children the victims of inept rocket fire falling short of their intended target?
 
Sure. Where to start? Let's pick two.

To what extent are Ukrainian children recruited, trained, and employed as child soldiers in the conflict?

To what extent are Ukrainian children the victims of inept rocket fire falling short of their intended target?
Apparently you don’t know the difference between “reasons” and “questions.”

BTW…your questions reveal a complete lack of understanding the situation.

PS. Please tell me the number of Israeli children killed since 1947? Now tell me the number of Palestinian children killed since 1947? Which number is larger?
 
Apparently you don’t know the difference between “reasons” and “questions.”

BTW…your questions reveal a complete lack of understanding the situation.

PS. Please tell me the number of Israeli children killed since 1947? Now tell me the number of Palestinian children killed since 1947? Which number is larger?
Your response reveals you have no interest in actually discussing topics of substance. You are trying to create an equivalency by reducing the argument down to numbers alone without considering the reasons deaths might be higher under certain circumstances.

One such reason is the use of children as active participants in hostilities. To my knowledge, Ukraine does not place children on the battlefield, while it is well-established and documented that Hamas (and Palestinians generally) actively recruit, train, and employ children.
 
Your response reveals you have no interest in actually discussing topics of substance. You are trying to create an equivalency by reducing the argument down to numbers alone without considering the reasons deaths might be higher under certain circumstances.

One such reason is the use of children as active participants in hostilities. To my knowledge, Ukraine does not place children on the battlefield, while it is well-established and documented that Hamas (and Palestinians generally) actively recruit, train, and employ children.
Please stop trying to justify genocide.
 
Please stop trying to justify genocide.
Oh, please. Enough with your silly soundbytes.

Hamas (and Palestinians) use CHILDREN to actively engage in hostilities. This is a war crime. Stop trying to justify the use of children in war!
 
Oh, please. Enough with your silly soundbytes.

Hamas (and Palestinians) use CHILDREN to actively engage in hostilities. This is a war crime. Stop trying to justify the use of children in war!
Kill those kids! Yippee!
 
You got it backwards. That’s what the Muslim savages were shouting as they sawed off baby heads and set toddlers on fire.
You just can't help telling lies, what baby beheaded or toddlers on fire? the only toddlers on fire are in Gaza.
 

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