Israel does not exist

[Indeependent]

Have there been any treaties with Palestine since 1949 that have changed that status?

You keep saying "treaties with Palestine" as though one can make a treaty with soil. You can't. States make treaties. Israel, as a State, has made treaties. Since 1948, including the 1949 Armistice Agreements!

You keep acting as though there is another legal entity here. There is not. In 1948/1949 the only entities were Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

There is. Palestine has been a state since the Treaty of Lausanne.

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

Have there been any treaties with Palestine since 1949 that have changed that status?

You keep saying "treaties with Palestine" as though one can make a treaty with soil. You can't. States make treaties. Israel, as a State, has made treaties. Since 1948, including the 1949 Armistice Agreements!

You keep acting as though there is another legal entity here. There is not. In 1948/1949 the only entities were Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

There is. Palestine has been a state since the Treaty of Lausanne.

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

I have. What is your point?

How long ago?
How many pages is it?
How many nations opted out when they wanted to opt out?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Have there been any treaties with Palestine since 1949 that have changed that status?

You keep saying "treaties with Palestine" as though one can make a treaty with soil. You can't. States make treaties. Israel, as a State, has made treaties. Since 1948, including the 1949 Armistice Agreements!

You keep acting as though there is another legal entity here. There is not. In 1948/1949 the only entities were Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

There is. Palestine has been a state since the Treaty of Lausanne.

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

Have there been any treaties with Palestine since 1949 that have changed that status?

You keep saying "treaties with Palestine" as though one can make a treaty with soil. You can't. States make treaties. Israel, as a State, has made treaties. Since 1948, including the 1949 Armistice Agreements!

You keep acting as though there is another legal entity here. There is not. In 1948/1949 the only entities were Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

There is. Palestine has been a state since the Treaty of Lausanne.

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

I have. What is your point?

How long ago?
How many pages is it?
How many nations opted out when they wanted to opt out?

 

[Indeependent]

Have there been any treaties with Palestine since 1949 that have changed that status?

You keep saying "treaties with Palestine" as though one can make a treaty with soil. You can't. States make treaties. Israel, as a State, has made treaties. Since 1948, including the 1949 Armistice Agreements!

You keep acting as though there is another legal entity here. There is not. In 1948/1949 the only entities were Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

There is. Palestine has been a state since the Treaty of Lausanne.

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

You keep saying "treaties with Palestine" as though one can make a treaty with soil. You can't. States make treaties. Israel, as a State, has made treaties. Since 1948, including the 1949 Armistice Agreements!

You keep acting as though there is another legal entity here. There is not. In 1948/1949 the only entities were Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

There is. Palestine has been a state since the Treaty of Lausanne.

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

I have. What is your point?

How long ago?
How many pages is it?
How many nations opted out when they wanted to opt out?

Your argument for this thread is the Treaty of "Lawrence of Arabia".
I want to know what you actually know about this Treaty.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Have there been any treaties with Palestine since 1949 that have changed that status?

You keep saying "treaties with Palestine" as though one can make a treaty with soil. You can't. States make treaties. Israel, as a State, has made treaties. Since 1948, including the 1949 Armistice Agreements!

You keep acting as though there is another legal entity here. There is not. In 1948/1949 the only entities were Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

There is. Palestine has been a state since the Treaty of Lausanne.

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

There is. Palestine has been a state since the Treaty of Lausanne.

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

I have. What is your point?

How long ago?
How many pages is it?
How many nations opted out when they wanted to opt out?

Your argument for this thread is the Treaty of "Lawrence of Arabia".
I want to know what you actually know about this Treaty.

I don't get your point.

 

[Shusha]

In a similar vein to those who question the existence of Palestine!

No. Its not. And I'll tell you why. The context of the discussion is the legal permissibility to kill Jews.

Those arguing that Palestine doesn't exist (while equally foolish since it HAS existed since the Oslo Accords, though it is not yet fully a State), do not argue it in the context of it being legally or morally permissible to kill Arabs.

 

[Shusha]

Sure it does. You just don't like the answer.

I'll simplify.

Israel is Palestine. Palestine is Israel. Wherever there is Palestine, it's Israel.

What process was used and what was the end result?

The same process which created Jordan. Syria. Lebanon. Iraq. Its all the same. Why would it be any different?

There was quite a difference. In those countries the mandates established functioning, independent governments as charged by the LoN Covenant. Britain failed to do that in Palestine. They created a big mess then cut and run.

The mandate had nothing to do with the creation of Israel.

Your claim, then, is that the only difference between the governments of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan and Israel is that Israel faced an immediate existential threat by multiple enemies both internal and external. And yet it managed to not only survive as a government, but thrive. Seems to me, this supports the fact that Israel had a functioning, well-established, strong, independent government, rather than the opposite.

The fact that there was internal unrest and aggression by other nations, though, does not negate the validity of the treaties which created all five nations.

 

[Shusha]

partition the Mandate for Palestine

The Mandate was not a place. It had no territory or borders. Therefor it could not be partitioned.

Wait, what?! More silliness. The British Mandate for Palestine administered territory which had borders (the geographical area was labelled "Palestine"). The territory which was administered WAS partitioned. Or are you arguing that Jordan doesn't exist either?

 

[Indeependent]

You keep saying "treaties with Palestine" as though one can make a treaty with soil. You can't. States make treaties. Israel, as a State, has made treaties. Since 1948, including the 1949 Armistice Agreements!

You keep acting as though there is another legal entity here. There is not. In 1948/1949 the only entities were Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

There is. Palestine has been a state since the Treaty of Lausanne.

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

Have you actually read the entire treaty?

I have. What is your point?

How long ago?
How many pages is it?
How many nations opted out when they wanted to opt out?

Your argument for this thread is the Treaty of "Lawrence of Arabia".
I want to know what you actually know about this Treaty.

I don't get your point.

Which shows you're not nearly intelligent or educated enough to continuously mention the Treaty.
You're simply dropping the name of a document hoping no one calls you on it.
I'm calling you on it.

 

[Shusha]

It does but it is occupied. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory.

In order for Israel to "occupy" another state -- both those states have to exist. Are you now retracting your claim that Israel does not exist? Are you also retracting your claim that there is only one territorial unit? Because, again, for one nation to occupy another, there must be two states and an established border between them.

What you are really saying is that a Jewish government is somehow invalid (on the Jewish ancestral and historical homeland), because -- Joooooooos! which is both repulsive and legally problematic.

 

[Indeependent]

Tin, I'm getting bored.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It does but it is occupied. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory.

In order for Israel to "occupy" another state -- both those states have to exist. Are you now retracting your claim that Israel does not exist? Are you also retracting your claim that there is only one territorial unit? Because, again, for one nation to occupy another, there must be two states and an established border between them.

What you are really saying is that a Jewish government is somehow invalid (on the Jewish ancestral and historical homeland), because -- Joooooooos! which is both repulsive and legally problematic.

We are defecting away from my initial questions without answering them.

Now, where is Israel and what is Israel?

 

[Indeependent]

It does but it is occupied. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory.

In order for Israel to "occupy" another state -- both those states have to exist. Are you now retracting your claim that Israel does not exist? Are you also retracting your claim that there is only one territorial unit? Because, again, for one nation to occupy another, there must be two states and an established border between them.

What you are really saying is that a Jewish government is somehow invalid (on the Jewish ancestral and historical homeland), because -- Joooooooos! which is both repulsive and legally problematic.

We are defecting away from my initial questions without answering them.

Now, where is Israel and what is Israel?

You are dodging because you always yelp, "Treaty of Laussant proves Israel doesn't exist", yet when called on your familiarity with said document you run away with your head between your legs.

 

[Shusha]

We are defecting away from my initial questions without answering them.

Now, where is Israel and what is Israel?

I have answered them numerous times. You just don't like the answer.

Israel is a State. We know it is a State because it fulfills all of the criteria set out in the parameters of this discussion, and acts on the world stage just exactly as all the other States do. Its territory is defined by treaty and entails ALL of what was known as "Palestine" in the Mandate period. Israel is Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

If you are trying to prove that Israel does not exist (is not a State), it is incumbent upon you to demonstrate how Israel is differentiated from the norm.

 

[P F Tinmore]

We are defecting away from my initial questions without answering them.

Now, where is Israel and what is Israel?

I have answered them numerous times. You just don't like the answer.

Israel is a State. We know it is a State because it fulfills all of the criteria set out in the parameters of this discussion, and acts on the world stage just exactly as all the other States do. Its territory is defined by treaty and entails ALL of what was known as "Palestine" in the Mandate period. Israel is Palestine.

OK, so how did Palestine become Israel? Where did that authority come from?

 

[Shusha]

OK, so how did Palestine become Israel? Where did that authority come from?

From the same authority that created Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. She just changed her name. You can call her Palestine if it makes you feel better.

 

[Sixties Fan]

We are defecting away from my initial questions without answering them.

Now, where is Israel and what is Israel?

I have answered them numerous times. You just don't like the answer.

Israel is a State. We know it is a State because it fulfills all of the criteria set out in the parameters of this discussion, and acts on the world stage just exactly as all the other States do. Its territory is defined by treaty and entails ALL of what was known as "Palestine" in the Mandate period. Israel is Palestine.

OK, so how did Palestine become Israel? Where did that authority come from?

How did Palestine became Jordan? Where did the authority for that Arab clan, from Arabia, to claim 77% of the Mandate for Palestine come from?

Why isn't Jordan Palestine, or called Palestine?

Why don't all Palestinians move to the greatest part of Palestine......Jordan?

Do you have any answer to these puzzling questions?

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK, so how did Palestine become Israel? Where did that authority come from?

From the same authority that created Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. She just changed her name. You can call her Palestine if it makes you feel better.

Not only changed names but changed population and the right for that original population to create its own government.

 

[Shusha]

P F Tinmore

You keep trying to imply that there was some sort of magical change that occurred because "Palestine" is associated with Jews. Treaties don't lose their validity because they are signed by Jews. Governments don't lose their validity because they are majority Jewish. States don't stop being states because of Jews. States aren't prevented from becoming states because of Jews. "Palestine" is still Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

... the right for that original population to create its own government.

Ah. So the real source of your argument is that Israel (Palestine)'s government was not fully representational. Does a government which is not fully representational invalidate treaties?