Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[Mindful]

montelatici, et al,

You did not read very well...

montelatici, et al,

Well, there is an dilemma here, you just might not recognize it.

(OBSERVATIONS & REFERENCES)

• Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) 2006 --- UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)

• 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees Text of the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees Resolution 2198 (XXI) adopted by the United Nations General Assembly

What is a refugee Rocco?

(COMMENT)

As "ubiquitous” as CERI is, it is not law; instruction for the eligibility and criteria for services.
Article 1A of the 1951 Convention sets out the detailed criteria for assessing whether an individual should be granted refugee status. This is true for all refugees, world-wide, except for Palestinians receiving from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance (the UNRWA).

Why are Palestinians not refugees?

(COMMENT)

This is what is called and "engineered dilemma" in which a "refugee" is defined by the UNHRC, but the UNHCR does not apply to Palestinians because they receive services from the UNRWA. However, it should be noticed that if the UNRWA were to disband, the UNHRC picks-up the responsibility. (Which is a whole other topic.)

By 1991, the Arab League had seemingly abandoned its efforts to guarantee minimal legal protection to the Palestinian refugees in the Arab States. Its resolution 5093 (1991) conditioned the treatment of the Palestinians to the rules and laws in force in each state.

Although there is a strong perception that everyone registered with the UNRWA is a "refugee" --- the term "refugee" is really not applicable to the Palestinians. They were marginalized by the UNRWA which has the de facto guardians of the "Right of Return." (Which is a whole other topic.)

Most Respectfully,
R

You are again, incorrect. If the Palestinians were to be transferred from the auspices of UNRWA to UNHCR, nothing would change. Pursuant to Chapter 5 of the UNHCR's Procedural Standards for Refugee Status Determination, 5.1.2 states "the categories of persons who should be considered to be eligible for derivative status under the right to family unity include:" "all unmarried children of the Principal Applicant who are under 18 years."

Furthermore Chapter 5.1.1 makes it clear that this status is retained after the age of 18. It states "individuals who obtain derivative refugee status enjoy the same rights and entitlements as other recognised refugees and should retain this status notwithstanding the subsequent dissolution of the family through separation, divorce, death, or the fact that the child reaches the age of majority."

In addition, UNHCR cites the Palestinian refugee population number in their "State of the World‘s Refugees" This makes clear that the practice of registering descendants of refugees is not disputed by UNHCR.

So, back to the drawing board Rocco, you lose again.

(COMMENT)

Important safety tip for those of you at home!

Well, there is often a mix-up between the two words: dependent (a matter of support) and descendent (which is a matter of ancestry). The general term is a use is the "Principle Applicant;" Which our friend "montelatici" correctly uses. It is also important that in terms of the UNHSR there is a difference between "Refugee Status" and that of a Derivative Refugee Status.
​

While I did say this was "a whole other topic," I was very careful not step to out the snapshot in time and discuss a specific criteria. I am very familiar with both the "Procedural Standards for Refugee Status Determination (RSD) under UNHCR's Mandate" --- and --- Revised Note on the Applicability of Article 1D of the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees to Palestinian Refugees. I give you these links so that you understand what a Principle Applicant is and what a Derivative Applicant is. The Derivative Applicant, is based on the eligibility of the Principle. A family member that derived refugee status, but never lived in the area from which the family was displaced (born after displacement). After that, the RSD is based on the interview by UNHCR personnel. In other words, you Derivative Applicant cannot pass-on refugee status unless it falls into a special case. Like I said, it is complicated.

What I can say is that UNRWA Palestinians eligible under UNHCR Refugee Procedures if they have

• Committed a crimes international crimes (against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity)
• Committed a serious non-political crime outside the country of refuge prior to his admission to that country as a refugee;
• Been found guilty of acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
​

What does this mean... All those families of Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters are out of luck.

Most Respectfully,
R

Wrong again. This is getting boring.

1. Freedom fighting is not a crime, it is a duty of the occupied people to resist occupation. The people in German occupied Europe that fought the occupation were granted refugee status, Jews included.

2. It's not complicated at all. Palestine refugees are entitled to a just and lasting solution to their plight. In the absence of and until there is a just solution, it stands to reason that their status as refugees remains.

Your questioning the passing of refugee status through generations stems from your inability to understand the international protection system. This sort of questioning, by ignorant Zionist racists, only distracts from the need to address the real reasons for the protracted Palestinian refugee situation, namely Israel's intransigence with respect to right of return of the refugees and ending the occupation, as required by various UNSC resolutions.

But to top it off, the UNHCR Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for determining Refugee Status states in paragraph 184: "If the head of a family meets the criteria of the definition, [for refugee status] his dependents are normally granted refugee status according to the principle of family unity."

Boring? You can say that again.

 

[MJB12741]

montelatici, et al,

Well, there is an dilemma here, you just might not recognize it.

(OBSERVATIONS & REFERENCES)

• Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) 2006 --- UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)

• 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees Text of the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees Resolution 2198 (XXI) adopted by the United Nations General Assembly

What is a refugee Rocco?

(COMMENT)

As "ubiquitous” as CERI is, it is not law; instruction for the eligibility and criteria for services.
Article 1A of the 1951 Convention sets out the detailed criteria for assessing whether an individual should be granted refugee status. This is true for all refugees, world-wide, except for Palestinians receiving from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance (the UNRWA).

Why are Palestinians not refugees?

(COMMENT)

This is what is called and "engineered dilemma" in which a "refugee" is defined by the UNHRC, but the UNHCR does not apply to Palestinians because they receive services from the UNRWA. However, it should be noticed that if the UNRWA were to disband, the UNHRC picks-up the responsibility. (Which is a whole other topic.)

By 1991, the Arab League had seemingly abandoned its efforts to guarantee minimal legal protection to the Palestinian refugees in the Arab States. Its resolution 5093 (1991) conditioned the treatment of the Palestinians to the rules and laws in force in each state.

Although there is a strong perception that everyone registered with the UNRWA is a "refugee" --- the term "refugee" is really not applicable to the Palestinians. They were marginalized by the UNRWA which has the de facto guardians of the "Right of Return." (Which is a whole other topic.)

Most Respectfully,
R

You are again, incorrect. If the Palestinians were to be transferred from the auspices of UNRWA to UNHCR, nothing would change. Pursuant to Chapter 5 of the UNHCR's Procedural Standards for Refugee Status Determination, 5.1.2 states "the categories of persons who should be considered to be eligible for derivative status under the right to family unity include:" "all unmarried children of the Principal Applicant who are under 18 years."

Furthermore Chapter 5.1.1 makes it clear that this status is retained after the age of 18. It states "individuals who obtain derivative refugee status enjoy the same rights and entitlements as other recognised refugees and should retain this status notwithstanding the subsequent dissolution of the family through separation, divorce, death, or the fact that the child reaches the age of majority."

In addition, UNHCR cites the Palestinian refugee population number in their "State of the World‘s Refugees" This makes clear that the practice of registering descendants of refugees is not disputed by UNHCR.

So, back to the drawing board Rocco, you lose again.

An interesting talk by a professor of international law and active lawyer of refugee and immigrant issues.

Why is it that no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them any right of return?

Good question.

Palestinians who have been languishing in Syrian refugee camps for years, have never been granted citizenship.

There were 6 million displaced persons in Europe following the end of WW2. What happened to those people? They must have been absorbed into different countries. Certainly no sign of camps, the present migrant situation notwithstanding.

And then those Zionists in Israel have the audacity to fuel the endless conflict by actually making peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them only to be thanked with rocket missiles. When will those Zionists ever learn to treat the Palestinians like the surrounding Arab countries do & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY?

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Well, there is an dilemma here, you just might not recognize it.

(OBSERVATIONS & REFERENCES)

• Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) 2006 --- UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)

• 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees Text of the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees Resolution 2198 (XXI) adopted by the United Nations General Assembly

(COMMENT)

As "ubiquitous” as CERI is, it is not law; instruction for the eligibility and criteria for services.
Article 1A of the 1951 Convention sets out the detailed criteria for assessing whether an individual should be granted refugee status. This is true for all refugees, world-wide, except for Palestinians receiving from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance (the UNRWA).

(COMMENT)

This is what is called and "engineered dilemma" in which a "refugee" is defined by the UNHRC, but the UNHCR does not apply to Palestinians because they receive services from the UNRWA. However, it should be noticed that if the UNRWA were to disband, the UNHRC picks-up the responsibility. (Which is a whole other topic.)
Although there is a strong perception that everyone registered with the UNRWA is a "refugee" --- the term "refugee" is really not applicable to the Palestinians. They were marginalized by the UNRWA which has the de facto guardians of the "Right of Return." (Which is a whole other topic.)

Most Respectfully,
R

You are again, incorrect. If the Palestinians were to be transferred from the auspices of UNRWA to UNHCR, nothing would change. Pursuant to Chapter 5 of the UNHCR's Procedural Standards for Refugee Status Determination, 5.1.2 states "the categories of persons who should be considered to be eligible for derivative status under the right to family unity include:" "all unmarried children of the Principal Applicant who are under 18 years."

Furthermore Chapter 5.1.1 makes it clear that this status is retained after the age of 18. It states "individuals who obtain derivative refugee status enjoy the same rights and entitlements as other recognised refugees and should retain this status notwithstanding the subsequent dissolution of the family through separation, divorce, death, or the fact that the child reaches the age of majority."

In addition, UNHCR cites the Palestinian refugee population number in their "State of the World‘s Refugees" This makes clear that the practice of registering descendants of refugees is not disputed by UNHCR.

So, back to the drawing board Rocco, you lose again.

An interesting talk by a professor of international law and active lawyer of refugee and immigrant issues.

Why is it that no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them any right of return?

Good question.

Palestinians who have been languishing in Syrian refugee camps for years, have never been granted citizenship.

There were 6 million displaced persons in Europe following the end of WW2. What happened to those people? They must have been absorbed into different countries. Certainly no sign of camps, the present migrant situation notwithstanding.

And then those Zionists in Israel have the audacity to fuel the endless conflict by actually making peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them only to be thanked with rocket missiles. When will those Zionists ever learn to treat the Palestinians like the surrounding Arab countries do & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY?

You mean wanting a peaceful occupied native population after taking their land?

 

[MJB12741]

You are again, incorrect. If the Palestinians were to be transferred from the auspices of UNRWA to UNHCR, nothing would change. Pursuant to Chapter 5 of the UNHCR's Procedural Standards for Refugee Status Determination, 5.1.2 states "the categories of persons who should be considered to be eligible for derivative status under the right to family unity include:" "all unmarried children of the Principal Applicant who are under 18 years."

Furthermore Chapter 5.1.1 makes it clear that this status is retained after the age of 18. It states "individuals who obtain derivative refugee status enjoy the same rights and entitlements as other recognised refugees and should retain this status notwithstanding the subsequent dissolution of the family through separation, divorce, death, or the fact that the child reaches the age of majority."

In addition, UNHCR cites the Palestinian refugee population number in their "State of the World‘s Refugees" This makes clear that the practice of registering descendants of refugees is not disputed by UNHCR.

So, back to the drawing board Rocco, you lose again.

An interesting talk by a professor of international law and active lawyer of refugee and immigrant issues.

Why is it that no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them any right of return?

Good question.

Palestinians who have been languishing in Syrian refugee camps for years, have never been granted citizenship.

There were 6 million displaced persons in Europe following the end of WW2. What happened to those people? They must have been absorbed into different countries. Certainly no sign of camps, the present migrant situation notwithstanding.

And then those Zionists in Israel have the audacity to fuel the endless conflict by actually making peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them only to be thanked with rocket missiles. When will those Zionists ever learn to treat the Palestinians like the surrounding Arab countries do & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY?

You mean wanting a peaceful occupied native population after taking their land?

Sounds like we both agree that Israel's damn Zionist agenda treatment of the Palestinians has to end for any prospect of a lasting peace. What better than Israel treating the Palestinians with the same love, justice & respect the surrounding Arab countries have for the Palestinians?
LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

 

[montelatici]

What do surrounding countries have to do with Israel's treatment of Palestinians? The Palestinians are the native inhabitants of Palestine, not the surrounding countries. What would the mistreatment of German Jews in France have to do with the mistreatment of German Jews in Germany? You are rambling.

 

[Mindful]

If anything, the name "Palestine" was associated with Jews. In the years leading up to the rebirth of Israel in 1948, those who spoke of "Palestinians" were nearly always referring to the region's Jewish residents. In fact, Arab leaders rejected the notion of a unique "Palestinian Arab" identity, insisting that Palestine was merely a part of "Greater Syria."

 

[MJB12741]

What do surrounding countries have to do with Israel's treatment of Palestinians? The Palestinians are the native inhabitants of Palestine, not the surrounding countries. What would the mistreatment of German Jews in France have to do with the mistreatment of German Jews in Germany? You are rambling.

Funny, funny, funny. Here we go again. "The Palestinians are the native inhabitants of Palestine, not the surrounding countries." And here I actually believed it was Hebrews who built Solomon's Temple that were the native inhabitants of Palestine. Amazing what we can learn from the wisdom of Monte.

 

[montelatici]

What do surrounding countries have to do with Israel's treatment of Palestinians? The Palestinians are the native inhabitants of Palestine, not the surrounding countries. What would the mistreatment of German Jews in France have to do with the mistreatment of German Jews in Germany? You are rambling.

Funny, funny, funny. Here we go again. "The Palestinians are the native inhabitants of Palestine, not the surrounding countries." And here I actually believed it was Hebrews who built Solomon's Temple that were the native inhabitants of Palestine. Amazing what we can learn from the wisdom of Monte.

They were, and many, if not most of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians today are their descendants. Changing religions doesn't change who your ancestors were. The Zionists were Europeans, not natives to Palestine.

 

[Hollie]

You are again, incorrect. If the Palestinians were to be transferred from the auspices of UNRWA to UNHCR, nothing would change. Pursuant to Chapter 5 of the UNHCR's Procedural Standards for Refugee Status Determination, 5.1.2 states "the categories of persons who should be considered to be eligible for derivative status under the right to family unity include:" "all unmarried children of the Principal Applicant who are under 18 years."

Furthermore Chapter 5.1.1 makes it clear that this status is retained after the age of 18. It states "individuals who obtain derivative refugee status enjoy the same rights and entitlements as other recognised refugees and should retain this status notwithstanding the subsequent dissolution of the family through separation, divorce, death, or the fact that the child reaches the age of majority."

In addition, UNHCR cites the Palestinian refugee population number in their "State of the World‘s Refugees" This makes clear that the practice of registering descendants of refugees is not disputed by UNHCR.

So, back to the drawing board Rocco, you lose again.

An interesting talk by a professor of international law and active lawyer of refugee and immigrant issues.

Why is it that no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them any right of return?

Good question.

Palestinians who have been languishing in Syrian refugee camps for years, have never been granted citizenship.

There were 6 million displaced persons in Europe following the end of WW2. What happened to those people? They must have been absorbed into different countries. Certainly no sign of camps, the present migrant situation notwithstanding.

And then those Zionists in Israel have the audacity to fuel the endless conflict by actually making peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them only to be thanked with rocket missiles. When will those Zionists ever learn to treat the Palestinians like the surrounding Arab countries do & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY?

You mean wanting a peaceful occupied native population after taking their land?

History has it that the Ottoman conquerers relinquished all rights and title to the land they controlled to the mandatory. When did that territory suddenly become "their" land; the geographic area occupied by Arab-Moslem squatters?

You are ignorant of the fact that absentee land owners in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon owned much of the land you have falsely and ignorantly assigned as a part of your invented "country of Pal'istan".

 

[Shusha]

Changing religions doesn't change who your ancestors were. The Zionists were Europeans, not natives to Palestine.

Changing your place of residence also doesn't change who your ancestors were.

 

[Mindful]

Changing religions doesn't change who your ancestors were. The Zionists were Europeans, not natives to Palestine.

Changing your place of residence also doesn't change who your ancestors were.

I don't think there should be the statement 'Israel's legal right to exist'. Or even 'right to exist'.

 

[montelatici]

Changing religions doesn't change who your ancestors were. The Zionists were Europeans, not natives to Palestine.

Changing your place of residence also doesn't change who your ancestors were.

I don't think there should be the statement 'Israel's legal right to exist'. Or even 'right to exist'.

But the ancestors of the European Jews are Europeans, they are not from Palestine. Their ancestors are overwhelmingly European converts to Judaism. The ancestors of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians, on the other hand, are overwhelmingly natives of Palestine.

"The finding establishes that the women who founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community of Europe were not from the Near East, as previously supposed...."

Genes Suggest European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree


"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European"

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European


"The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women, according to study published today (October 8) in Nature Communications."

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...21/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

 

[MJB12741]

Changing religions doesn't change who your ancestors were. The Zionists were Europeans, not natives to Palestine.

Changing your place of residence also doesn't change who your ancestors were.

I don't think there should be the statement 'Israel's legal right to exist'. Or even 'right to exist'.

But the ancestors of the European Jews are Europeans, they are not from Palestine. Their ancestors are overwhelmingly European converts to Judaism. The ancestors of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians, on the other hand, are overwhelmingly natives of Palestine.

"The finding establishes that the women who founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community of Europe were not from the Near East, as previously supposed...."

Genes Suggest European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree


"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European"

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European


"The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women, according to study published today (October 8) in Nature Communications."

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...21/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

FACT! Jews are Jews & Israel is their homeland. Accept it & move on before you wind up on the funny farm.

 

[Hollie]

Changing religions doesn't change who your ancestors were. The Zionists were Europeans, not natives to Palestine.

Changing your place of residence also doesn't change who your ancestors were.

I don't think there should be the statement 'Israel's legal right to exist'. Or even 'right to exist'.

But the ancestors of the European Jews are Europeans, they are not from Palestine. Their ancestors are overwhelmingly European converts to Judaism. The ancestors of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians, on the other hand, are overwhelmingly natives of Palestine.

"The finding establishes that the women who founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community of Europe were not from the Near East, as previously supposed...."

Genes Suggest European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree


"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European"

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European


"The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women, according to study published today (October 8) in Nature Communications."

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...21/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

What's interesting is that the Arab-Moslem squatters that Monty believes are native Pal'istanians from his invented "country of Pal'istan" are nothing of the kind. Arabs-Moslems are simply more recent invaders / colonists to that geographic area which saw many invasions including the Crusading Romans / Christians.

 

[MJB12741]

My favorite Monte is Israel's goal is "ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians."

Fact: In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are only just over 6 million of them left. YEP, it's a GENOCIDE. And if you don't believe it, just ask Monte.

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

 

[montelatici]

My favorite Monte is Israel's goal is "ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians."

Fact: In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are only just over 6 million of them left. YEP, it's a GENOCIDE. And if you don't believe it, just ask Monte.

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

So MJ denies that Muslims and Christians were ethnically cleansed in 1948. LOL

 

[Hollie]

My favorite Monte is Israel's goal is "ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians."

Fact: In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are only just over 6 million of them left. YEP, it's a GENOCIDE. And if you don't believe it, just ask Monte.

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

So MJ denies that Muslims and Christians were ethnically cleansed in 1948. LOL

They were, by the Crusading Arab-Moslem invaders. LOL.

 

[MJB12741]

My favorite Monte is Israel's goal is "ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians."

Fact: In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are only just over 6 million of them left. YEP, it's a GENOCIDE. And if you don't believe it, just ask Monte.

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

So MJ denies that Muslims and Christians were ethnically cleansed in 1948. LOL

No Muslim or Christian Palestinians left, eh Monte?

 

[montelatici]

My favorite Monte is Israel's goal is "ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians."

Fact: In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are only just over 6 million of them left. YEP, it's a GENOCIDE. And if you don't believe it, just ask Monte.

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

So MJ denies that Muslims and Christians were ethnically cleansed in 1948. LOL

No Muslim or Christian Palestinians left, eh Monte?

Of course, the Jews were not as efficient as they wanted to be at expelling all non-Jews from Palestine. They only expelled most of them from the Jew partition.

 

[Contumacious]

Lets just consider documented facts. Fair enough?

Israel's History and Right to Exist - Discover the Networks

Listen you stupid fuck

How can Israel have a right to exist when it was created by force and terrorism? When 1.5 million Palestinian Arabs were thrown under the bus by one scumbag named Harry S. Truman. Overnight those unfortunate people became foreigners in their own land.


.