It Is Long Past Time to Close Gitmo

[George Costanza]

Remember how, in 2008, then-candidate Obama was touting how he was going to "close Guantanamo Bay" if elected? He was, and he didn't. Gitmo is very much open for business today, housing over 100 prisoners who have been in custody since 9/11 or thereabouts, with no sign of a trial anywhere around. Did you also notice that, when he was running for re-election last year, we didn't hear too much, if anything, about Gitmo during the 2012 campaign?

How come? Why is Gitmo still in operation? It certainly is not because Pres. Obama has given up on his desire to close it.

Answer: Congress. Pres. Obama does not have the power to close Gitmo by himself. He has to have Congressional approval, and he isn't getting it.

Obama renews call to close Guantanamo prison - latimes.com

It's long past time to close this place and either give these prisoners trials or release them.

 

[williepete]

Why is Gitmo still in operation? It certainly is not because Pres. Obama has given up on his desire to close it.

Answer: Congress. Pres. Obama does not have the power to close Gitmo by himself. He has to have Congressional approval, and he isn't getting it.

Obama renews call to close Guantanamo prison - latimes.com

From the link:


"He cannot close Guantanamo on his own; Congress has passed several laws restricting the Pentagon from transferring detainees elsewhere."

Q: How are bills written in Congress signed into law?

A: Constitutional Topic: How a Bill Becomes a Law - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

First, a bill must pass both houses of Congress by a majority vote. After it has passed out of Congress, it is sent along to the President. If the President signs the bill, it becomes law.

The President might not sign the bill, however. If he specifically rejects the bill, called a veto, the bill returns to Congress. There it is voted on again, and if both houses of Congress pass the bill again, but this time by a two-thirds majority, then the bill becomes law without the President's signature. This is called "overriding a veto," and is difficult to do because of the two-thirds majority requirement.

Alternately, the President can sit on the bill, taking no action on it at all. If the President takes no action at all, and ten days passes (not including Sundays), the bill becomes law without the President's signature. However, if the Congress has adjourned before the ten days passes and without a Presidential signature, the bill fails. This is known as a pocket veto.

 

[williepete]

GITMO is a U.S. Military installation. Who and who alone controls the military?


Commander in Chief Powers | LII / Legal Information Institute

Article II Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, the Commander in Chief clause, states that "[t]he President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States."

 

[Defiant1]

Why didn't he do it after he took office in '09 when he had control of both houses of Congress?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Every terrorist in the world would love to break those people out. Seems like the safest place to keep them is a remote prison on a secluded section of an island that doesn't have much traffic coming into it. I wouldn't want those people in a prison in my state.

 

[Politico]

Answer: Congress. Pres. Obama does not have the power to close Gitmo by himself. He has to have Congressional approval, and he isn't getting it.

Umm. He is the one that signed the EO to keep it open. Nice fail though Leftytoon.

 

[mudwhistle]

As soon as he can figure out a way to kill the detainees he can close it.

Maybe let them loose and blow them up all at once with a Drone attack.

 

[George Costanza]

Answer: Congress. Pres. Obama does not have the power to close Gitmo by himself. He has to have Congressional approval, and he isn't getting it.

Umm. He is the one that signed the EO to keep it open. Nice fail though Leftytoon.

Yes, but WHY did he sign the EO? You seem to imply that he WANTED to keep Gitmo open. Not the case. And what did the EO really say - what was the President trying to accomplish with it? Read this article:

Obama creates indefinite detention system for prisoners at Guantanamo Bay

 

[williepete]

With all due respect, he can't have it both ways. He and he alone as the Commander-in-Chief controls this military installation. He and he alone signed the bills/EOs to keep it open or to keep the prisoners there.

He can't be a victim of his own actions but that's what he and his party are trying to sell. Besides being a leader, a large part of being POTUS and being an adult is taking responsibility. He's trying to blame the GOP for his actions. It defies logic and the laws of our form of government.

We've addressed your point. Will you address why he didn't fulfill his campaign promise to close GITMO in his first two years when his party controlled the House, the Senate and the White House?

Thanks

 

[yidnar]

Remember how, in 2008, then-candidate Obama was touting how he was going to "close Guantanamo Bay" if elected? He was, and he didn't. Gitmo is very much open for business today, housing over 100 prisoners who have been in custody since 9/11 or thereabouts, with no sign of a trial anywhere around. Did you also notice that, when he was running for re-election last year, we didn't hear too much, if anything, about Gitmo during the 2012 campaign?

How come? Why is Gitmo still in operation? It certainly is not because Pres. Obama has given up on his desire to close it.

Answer: Congress. Pres. Obama does not have the power to close Gitmo by himself. He has to have Congressional approval, and he isn't getting it.

Obama renews call to close Guantanamo prison - latimes.com

It's long past time to close this place and either give these prisoners trials or release them.

sure lets put them in federal prisons so they can indoctrinate other prisoners into their radical cult ............

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

What is the purpose of closing Gitmo?

 

[George Costanza]

What is the purpose of closing Gitmo?

If the detainees were not being denied trials and if they were not being "treated badly," there might not be any purpose in closing Gitmo.

I saw Giuliani on the tube last night. He was asked how long are we going to detain these people without giving them a trial. He said, "as long as the war on terror continues." When confronted with the fact that something as vague as the "war on terror" could continue literally for an indefinite period of time, he laughingly minimized such an idea, saying that "it will be over long before you think it will."

Golly, I'm sure the detainees feel much better now.

 

[George Costanza]

We've addressed your point. Will you address why he didn't fulfill his campaign promise to close GITMO in his first two years when his party controlled the House, the Senate and the White House?

Thanks

What part of he needs Congressional approval to do it and they aren't giving it to him, do you not understand? It doesn't matter who controlled what - if Congress will not give approval, then there isn't any approval. Not being able to control his own people in Congress is another issue, and has little to do with the President's personal position on closing Gitmo, which he has always been in favor of and continues to be in favor ot.

Read the article in the OP. I'll even re-link it for you here:

Obama renews call to close Guantanamo prison - latimes.com

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

What is the purpose of closing Gitmo?

If the detainees were not being denied trials and if they were not being "treated badly," there might not be any purpose in closing Gitmo.

I saw Giuliani on the tube last night. He was asked how long are we going to detain these people without giving them a trial. He said, "as long as the war on terror continues." When confronted with the fact that something as vague as the "war on terror" could continue literally for an indefinite period of time, he laughingly minimized such an idea, saying that "it will be over long before you think it will."

Golly, I'm sure the detainees feel much better now.

What makes you think that just because they may be in some supermax prison on the continental U.S. and not in Gitmo they still won't be detained indefinitely? The only thing that would change is the location.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Remember how, in 2008, then-candidate Obama was touting how he was going to "close Guantanamo Bay" if elected? He was, and he didn't. Gitmo is very much open for business today, housing over 100 prisoners who have been in custody since 9/11 or thereabouts, with no sign of a trial anywhere around. Did you also notice that, when he was running for re-election last year, we didn't hear too much, if anything, about Gitmo during the 2012 campaign?

How come? Why is Gitmo still in operation? It certainly is not because Pres. Obama has given up on his desire to close it.

Answer: Congress. Pres. Obama does not have the power to close Gitmo by himself. He has to have Congressional approval, and he isn't getting it.

Obama renews call to close Guantanamo prison - latimes.com

It's long past time to close this place and either give these prisoners trials or release them.

Yes, but the time has not passed for many conservatives to use Guantanamo as a political weapon against the president.

Congressional republicans will be falling all over themselves to close Guantanamo once a republican is in the WH.

 

[williepete]

What part of he needs Congressional approval to do it and they aren't giving it to him, do you not understand? It doesn't matter who controlled what - if Congress will not give approval, then there isn't any approval. Not being able to control his own people in Congress is another issue, and has little to do with the President's personal position on closing Gitmo, which he has always been in favor of and continues to be in favor ot.

Read the article in the OP. I'll even re-link it for you here:

Obama renews call to close Guantanamo prison - latimes.com

Pure fantasy. You rely on an OP instead of the rule of law. See my above posts. Obama is the Commander-in-Chief. He and he alone has the power to move or close the detention facility at GITMO. We understand your desire to blame anyone but Obama but on this issue, your position is invalid. Obama owns this. If you choose to deny reality, so be it. You're just fooling yourself.

Cheers,

 

[IlarMeilyr]

As soon as he can figure out a way to kill the detainees he can close it.

Maybe let them loose and blow them up all at once with a Drone attack.

Or, have one undercover agent in GITMO whisper an idea about a hunger strike ...

Let them starve themselves to death!

Wow.

I never appreciated just how devious that Obama can be.

 

[williepete]

"On January 7, 2011, President Obama signed the 2011 Defense Authorization Bill, which, in part, placed restrictions on the transfer of Guantanamo prisoners to the mainland or to foreign countries, thus impeding the closure of the facility."
Guantanamo Bay detention camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[George Costanza]

What part of he needs Congressional approval to do it and they aren't giving it to him, do you not understand? It doesn't matter who controlled what - if Congress will not give approval, then there isn't any approval. Not being able to control his own people in Congress is another issue, and has little to do with the President's personal position on closing Gitmo, which he has always been in favor of and continues to be in favor ot.

Read the article in the OP. I'll even re-link it for you here:

Obama renews call to close Guantanamo prison - latimes.com

Pure fantasy. You rely on an OP instead of the rule of law. See my above posts. Obama is the Commander-in-Chief. He and he alone has the power to move or close the detention facility at GITMO. We understand your desire to blame anyone but Obama but on this issue, your position is invalid. Obama owns this. If you choose to deny reality, so be it. You're just fooling yourself.

Cheers,

I'm sorry, but here is a quote from the article:

Obama is seeking to force Congress to reexamine an issue that has been close to moribund in Washington recently. He cannot close Guantanamo on his own; Congress has passed several laws restricting the Pentagon from transferring detainees elsewhere.

What are you trying to say here - that Obama has some kind of secret desire that Guantanamo remain open and is lying when he says he wants it closed, blaming everything on Congress when, in reality, he has the power to close it himself without getting Congressional approval?

It seems to me YOU are the one denying reality here. Are you denying that Congress has passed legislation preventing the Pentagon from transferring detainees elsewhere? That means that Guantanamo effectively remains open until Congress lifts those restrictions.

President Obama has always taken the position that he wants Guantanamo closed. Right- thinking people everywhere share that view. There are ways to bring terrorists to justice. Sticking them away somewhere for over ten years without a trial is not it.

 

[George Costanza]

"On January 7, 2011, President Obama signed the 2011 Defense Authorization Bill, which, in part, placed restrictions on the transfer of Guantanamo prisoners to the mainland or to foreign countries, thus impeding the closure of the facility."
Guantanamo Bay detention camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OK, right off the bat, here's a quote from your Wiki article here:

On January 22, 2009, President Barack Obama signed an order to suspend the proceedings of the Guantanamo military commission for 120 days and to shut down the detention facility within the year.

Let's keep reading . . . .

On May 20, 2009, the United States Senate passed an amendment to the Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009 (H.R. 2346) by a 90-6 vote to block funds needed for the transfer or release of prisoners held at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[14] President Obama issued a Presidential memorandum dated December 15, 2009, ordering Thomson Correctional Center, Thomson, Illinois to be prepared to accept transferred Guantanamo prisoners.

Let's see - President against keeping Gimo open, Congress in favor of keeping it open. OK, let's keep on . . . .

Then, as you say . . .

On January 7, 2011, President Obama signed the 2011 Defense Authorization Bill, which, in part, placed restrictions on the transfer of Guantanamo prisoners to the mainland or to foreign countries, thus impeding the closure of the facility.

But, next sentence . . .

U.S. Secretary of Defense Gates said during testimony before the US Senate Armed Services Committee on February 17, 2011: "The prospects for closing Guantanamo as best I can tell are very, very low given very broad opposition to doing that here in the Congress." Congress particularly opposed moving prisoners to facilities in the United States for detention or trial.

It would appear that Pres. Obama signed the bill because of "broad, Congressional opposition" to closure of Gitmo. That does not mean that Pres. Obama was not personally in favor of closing Gitmo - he was and is. He probably felt that, in light of such strong Congressonal opposition, it would not have been politically prudent for him to veto the bill, I don't know (and neither do you).

The continued operation of the Guantanamo Bay facility is a stain on the integrity of our country. Those who encourage such continued operation of Gitmo label themselves as authoritarian cretins, willing to compromise constitutional provisions for the achievement of their own, ill-conceived personal goals.

As I have said and will continue to say, there are ways to punish terrorists, consistent with our established legal principles. Gitmo is not it.