it wasn't a bow.............

[Yurt]

335 posts, and yet no one has demonstrated that it was anything untoward.

fact:

obama bowed to a muslim king

fact:

obama did not bow for any other head of state

And we're right back to where we started: What in hell difference does it make if either of your statements are true?!

since obama can do no wrong in your eyes, it obviously doesn't make a difference to you. given the lenght of the thread, it obviously makes a difference to many people. your ranting about how it hasn't been shown to make a difference is laughable given the discussion regarding the bow.

further, if it is not a big deal, why did the white house lie about it?

The White House briefing room grew a bit chilly on Thursday after CNN reporter Dan Lothian asked press secretary Robert Gibbs to explain the current cause célèbre of the conservative movement: whether President Obama bowed down to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia.

LOTHIAN: When the President met with King Abdullah, there was something that took place which I believe the White House explained was just the president being taller than the king. We took a look at the video, and it does appear that the president actually bowed to King Abdullah. Did he bow or didn't he?

GIBBS: No, I think he bent over with both, to shake -- with both hands to shake his hand, so I don't--

LOTHIAN: -- one hand --

GIBBS: Well I... [laughter]

LOTHIAN: Did he bow or didn't he?

GIBBS: No. But I think this meeting was like a week ago, right?

LOTHIAN: That's right but this is something a lot of people are talking about today.
Obama "Bow" To Saudis: CNN Reporter Asks White House To Clarify

 

[AnnECUCherry]

and clearly he DID bow, and clearly it was a breach of protocol
but you will still keep excusing that

335 posts, and yet no one has demonstrated that it was anything untoward.

there is no point in this for you, he could have shit on the guys shoe and you would have been ok with it

And your comment proves what I've been trying to explain over on another thread: You are making an accusation you have absolutely no way of knowing is true, but you make it anyway for no other reason than that you disagree with me on something else. On that other thread, just because one poster disagrees with another, he's decided that everything the other poster said is false.

That is not debate. That is childish schoolyard name-calling.

 

[krotchdog]

Yep, I made it up, busted, its a figure that is impossible to state, period. You can look at the Iraqi army though, 90% could not read nor right, you can look at the drop out rate of arabs in the gaza strip. You could also consider the poverty rate and determine how many afford papers. Than there is indonesia, how many finish High School and after considering that you could check the poverty rate and newspaper circulation to determine how many saw Obama bow.

Need not mind me though, you can post in ignorance and than call me out, I dont mind, says more about your arguement than mind.

Ever read Arabia Deserta, does that have a bit relevance.

Ever talk to a woman in the National Guard going to Iraq for the second time.

Talk to any Halliburton engineers that just left Iraq.

90% of the people of Moslem religion are uneducated, read some stories of woman teachers in Saudi Arabia and then relate what they experienced.

Again, if I was home, I would quoute directly but if you really care about the truth you can do a google and find out if what I say is even a little true.

Try googleing, teacher saudi arabia, or problems teaching saudi arabia

dismiss me sure, but do your homework, a statistic from the UN is weak at best.

I admit I only based my statistic on reading about 50 books, reading tons on the internet, and knowing about the culture.

By the way, who is your favoriet modern Saudi author, who is your favorite Yemen historian, who is your favorite modern poet from Omar. That aint a challenge, its just tough for me to find any.

 

[AnnECUCherry]

I agree with Divecon, maybe the reason Annecucherry cannot find anything is you do not read and write in Arabic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can anyone say moron.

1,000,000,000 moslems 90% do not read and write, how many have television. The Moslems also do not state the obvious, they do not look outside and report the sun is shining.

The first interview with a reporter Obama gave was with which paper, which television station, I will give you a clue, it was not in the United States and thier official language was not English.

Learn a bit of the Arab Moslem culture and you will not need me or anyone else to tell you the significance of a bow.

Bush aint much better, he did not bow, yes he held hands, but if you watch the clip on you tube you will see that Bush at least took the Saudi's hand, Bush initiated the gesture, Bush led (and I do not like bush). Bush behaved as an equal, not a servant.

If you are weak you do not deserve our help, if you are strong you do not need our helpm. Mohamed

Saudi Arabia

Statistics

Total adult literacy rate (%), 2000–2007*
85

UNICEF - Saudi Arabia - Statistics

And who came up with the statistic considering no westerner is allowed to roam free in Saudi Arabia, saudi, saudi, uh, Saudi is the family name, so one family names the entire kingdom after themselves and you site a credible source as the UN.

So of the Moslem world of 1,000,000,000 which percentage live in Saudi (family name) Arabia, than you must also know that in Saudi Arabia woman are not allowed to learn so that means your figure only refers to men so you got to cut it in half so 42% at best can read and write, according to the figures by an agency that is literally in bed with the Arabs.

You got to read more and I wish I was at home so I could quote some of the books in my library, no matter, just do a google search on words like, teacher in Saudi (family name) Arabia and see what the teachers say. I know what they say, they say even though the MEN come to school they do not bother to learn.

So in the completely censcored KINGDOM of Saudi (family name) Arabia you will cite the United Nations as a source.

You got to do better than that.

So you see your president Bow but its not and the proof is the United Nations because they say less than half the people read???

Oh, baloney, krotch. Both DiveCon and I have posted several sources of statistics that prove you completely wrong.

 

[AnnECUCherry]

fact:

obama bowed to a muslim king

fact:

obama did not bow for any other head of state

And we're right back to where we started: What in hell difference does it make if either of your statements are true?!

since obama can do no wrong in your eyes, it obviously doesn't make a difference to you. given the lenght of the thread, it obviously makes a difference to many people. your ranting about how it hasn't been shown to make a difference is laughable given the discussion regarding the bow.

further, if it is not a big deal, why did the white house lie about it?

The White House briefing room grew a bit chilly on Thursday after CNN reporter Dan Lothian asked press secretary Robert Gibbs to explain the current cause célèbre of the conservative movement: whether President Obama bowed down to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia.

LOTHIAN: When the President met with King Abdullah, there was something that took place which I believe the White House explained was just the president being taller than the king. We took a look at the video, and it does appear that the president actually bowed to King Abdullah. Did he bow or didn't he?

GIBBS: No, I think he bent over with both, to shake -- with both hands to shake his hand, so I don't--

LOTHIAN: -- one hand --

GIBBS: Well I... [laughter]

LOTHIAN: Did he bow or didn't he?

GIBBS: No. But I think this meeting was like a week ago, right?

LOTHIAN: That's right but this is something a lot of people are talking about today.
Obama "Bow" To Saudis: CNN Reporter Asks White House To Clarify

From where do you get the notion that "Obama can do no wrong in [my] eyes"?

I just want to know what difference it makes how he greeted the Saudi king. So far, no one has been able to demonstrate that it makes one bit.

 

[Meister]

And we're right back to where we started: What in hell difference does it make if either of your statements are true?!

since obama can do no wrong in your eyes, it obviously doesn't make a difference to you. given the lenght of the thread, it obviously makes a difference to many people. your ranting about how it hasn't been shown to make a difference is laughable given the discussion regarding the bow.

further, if it is not a big deal, why did the white house lie about it?

The White House briefing room grew a bit chilly on Thursday after CNN reporter Dan Lothian asked press secretary Robert Gibbs to explain the current cause célèbre of the conservative movement: whether President Obama bowed down to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia.

LOTHIAN: When the President met with King Abdullah, there was something that took place which I believe the White House explained was just the president being taller than the king. We took a look at the video, and it does appear that the president actually bowed to King Abdullah. Did he bow or didn't he?

GIBBS: No, I think he bent over with both, to shake -- with both hands to shake his hand, so I don't--

LOTHIAN: -- one hand --

GIBBS: Well I... [laughter]

LOTHIAN: Did he bow or didn't he?

GIBBS: No. But I think this meeting was like a week ago, right?

LOTHIAN: That's right but this is something a lot of people are talking about today.
Obama "Bow" To Saudis: CNN Reporter Asks White House To Clarify

From where do you get the notion that "Obama can do no wrong in [my] eyes"?

I just want to know what difference it makes how he greeted the Saudi king. So far, no one has been able to demonstrate that it makes one bit.

Well, they have presented their opinions, and past protocol. You just don't want to accept them. Hey, everyone has an opinion, and you have yours...just sayin...

 

[AnnECUCherry]

Yep, I made it up, busted, its a figure that is impossible to state, period. You can look at the Iraqi army though, 90% could not read nor right, you can look at the drop out rate of arabs in the gaza strip. You could also consider the poverty rate and determine how many afford papers. Than there is indonesia, how many finish High School and after considering that you could check the poverty rate and newspaper circulation to determine how many saw Obama bow.

Need not mind me though, you can post in ignorance and than call me out, I dont mind, says more about your arguement than mind.

Ever read Arabia Deserta, does that have a bit relevance.

Ever talk to a woman in the National Guard going to Iraq for the second time.

Talk to any Halliburton engineers that just left Iraq.

90% of the people of Moslem religion are uneducated, read some stories of woman teachers in Saudi Arabia and then relate what they experienced.

Again, if I was home, I would quoute directly but if you really care about the truth you can do a google and find out if what I say is even a little true.

Try googleing, teacher saudi arabia, or problems teaching saudi arabia

dismiss me sure, but do your homework, a statistic from the UN is weak at best.

I admit I only based my statistic on reading about 50 books, reading tons on the internet, and knowing about the culture.

By the way, who is your favoriet modern Saudi author, who is your favorite Yemen historian, who is your favorite modern poet from Omar. That aint a challenge, its just tough for me to find any.

You seem to forget that you are the one who brought up illiteracy and that the reason you did was to claim that Saudis are too illiterate too know what's going on in the world and therefore they can't be relied on to make informed comments about President Obama's greeting when he met their king.

Your premise is false.

Why don't we stick to the subject?! If what President Obama did was sooooo awful, why can't anyone prove it?!

 

[krotchdog]

Saudi Arabia

Statistics

Total adult literacy rate (%), 2000–2007*
85

UNICEF - Saudi Arabia - Statistics

And who came up with the statistic considering no westerner is allowed to roam free in Saudi Arabia, saudi, saudi, uh, Saudi is the family name, so one family names the entire kingdom after themselves and you site a credible source as the UN.

So of the Moslem world of 1,000,000,000 which percentage live in Saudi (family name) Arabia, than you must also know that in Saudi Arabia woman are not allowed to learn so that means your figure only refers to men so you got to cut it in half so 42% at best can read and write, according to the figures by an agency that is literally in bed with the Arabs.

You got to read more and I wish I was at home so I could quote some of the books in my library, no matter, just do a google search on words like, teacher in Saudi (family name) Arabia and see what the teachers say. I know what they say, they say even though the MEN come to school they do not bother to learn.

So in the completely censcored KINGDOM of Saudi (family name) Arabia you will cite the United Nations as a source.

You got to do better than that.

So you see your president Bow but its not and the proof is the United Nations because they say less than half the people read???

Oh, baloney, krotch. Both DiveCon and I have posted several sources of statistics that prove you completely wrong.

Your source dont mean squat, you cannot even spell bologna.

I stated the truth, pure and simple.

Why did you not name the authors of your favorite arab writers, modern day writers, why do you state that teachers lie, teachers that state thier students in saudi arabia are all male, why dont you tell us how woman must cover thier face and never fall in love, tell us how the great arab writers are woman, that they are not married off while still children, yes, they are married, by the negotiation of men, while they are young, 12, 13, 14, and they have babies at that age, so your statistic tells us these young mothers, who have no choice in marriage, who are literally property, your statistic includes these woman.

You are nothing but ignorant. Come back and disagree than you are a liar. For I have now told you the cold, hard, facts.

 

[AnnECUCherry]

since obama can do no wrong in your eyes, it obviously doesn't make a difference to you. given the lenght of the thread, it obviously makes a difference to many people. your ranting about how it hasn't been shown to make a difference is laughable given the discussion regarding the bow.

further, if it is not a big deal, why did the white house lie about it?

The White House briefing room grew a bit chilly on Thursday after CNN reporter Dan Lothian asked press secretary Robert Gibbs to explain the current cause célèbre of the conservative movement: whether President Obama bowed down to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia.

LOTHIAN: When the President met with King Abdullah, there was something that took place which I believe the White House explained was just the president being taller than the king. We took a look at the video, and it does appear that the president actually bowed to King Abdullah. Did he bow or didn't he?

GIBBS: No, I think he bent over with both, to shake -- with both hands to shake his hand, so I don't--

LOTHIAN: -- one hand --

GIBBS: Well I... [laughter]

LOTHIAN: Did he bow or didn't he?

GIBBS: No. But I think this meeting was like a week ago, right?

LOTHIAN: That's right but this is something a lot of people are talking about today.
Obama "Bow" To Saudis: CNN Reporter Asks White House To Clarify

From where do you get the notion that "Obama can do no wrong in [my] eyes"?

I just want to know what difference it makes how he greeted the Saudi king. So far, no one has been able to demonstrate that it makes one bit.

Well, they have presented their opinions, and past protocol. You just don't want to accept them. Hey, everyone has an opinion, and you have yours...just sayin...

The point I am making is that their opinions included more than "it's just not done." Various posters have decided that bowing can only signify "submission," that bowing is "a symbol of subservience," that Obama "openly gave authority to the king," that Obama's bow "shows that he's weak."

Now, surely, were all these true, Saudis would be gloating, al Jazeera would be speculating on what the Muslim world could get out of this weak sister, the world press would be trouncing Obama for making such a foolish move as to give away the U.S. to King Abdullah, yadda yadda yadda.

However, not a word.

So, as I asked, if what Obama did was sooooo awful, how come it's only a topic of discussion among U.S. conservatives?

 

[manu1959]

335 posts, and yet no one has demonstrated that it was anything untoward.

fact:

obama bowed to a muslim king

fact:

obama did not bow for any other head of state

And we're right back to where we started: What in hell difference does it make if either of your statements are true?!

your king bowed to another king......

 

[KittenKoder]

I am still unable to see what the big deal is, many great business propositions end in bows, the ones that haven't completely failed that is.

 

[manu1959]

I am still unable to see what the big deal is, many great business propositions end in bows, the ones that haven't completely failed that is.

in the ones i have been in .....both sides bow.....

 

[KittenKoder]

I am still unable to see what the big deal is, many great business propositions end in bows, the ones that haven't completely failed that is.

in the ones i have been in .....both sides bow.....

True, then why not get angry that the other party did not return the respect to our president?

 

[manu1959]

I am still unable to see what the big deal is, many great business propositions end in bows, the ones that haven't completely failed that is.

in the ones i have been in .....both sides bow.....

True, then why not get angry that the other party did not return the respect to our president?

what business deal was cut...

 

[KittenKoder]

in the ones i have been in .....both sides bow.....

True, then why not get angry that the other party did not return the respect to our president?

what business deal was cut...

The bow isn't the deal, it's a sign of mutual respect between two people, Obama offered and was turned down, in many cultures that's an insult and warrants a declaration of war.

Point is this: Why is it so important (we have plenty of reasons to not like Oabama) to pin this disgrace committed by another countries leader on our president instead of squarely where it belongs ... on the other leader. Demand an apology from them for not returning the same sign of respect offered. Obama is our president right now, his relations with other countries will reflect on us, if we turn on him with this then we will appear weak as a country, but if we instead turn our anger to those who disrespected us we will appear strong. It's a chance to show the Middle East that we are tired of being the bad guy.

 

[manu1959]

True, then why not get angry that the other party did not return the respect to our president?

what business deal was cut...

The bow isn't the deal, it's a sign of mutual respect between two people, Obama offered and was turned down, in many cultures that's an insult and warrants a declaration of war.

Point is this: Why is it so important (we have plenty of reasons to not like Oabama) to pin this disgrace committed by another countries leader on our president instead of squarely where it belongs ... on the other leader. Demand an apology from them for not returning the same sign of respect offered. Obama is our president right now, his relations with other countries will reflect on us, if we turn on him with this then we will appear weak as a country, but if we instead turn our anger to those who disrespected us we will appear strong. It's a chance to show the Middle East that we are tired of being the bad guy.

what deal was obama offering....

 

[krotchdog]

Fox news is owned 37% by the Saudis, maybe more, figure last time I checked.

You do not get it, so be it, citing Al Jazerra, please, you think the English version is a source. The news is anything but the news. Thats the problem. You are looking to TV for your answer and you will never find the answer. Your premis that the answer is in the papers has no bearing whatsoever. If you could find the truth in the papers Obama would never of been elected.

How many papers are owned by Soros, how much money did Soros give Obama, what is the Soros connection with the Saudis, What did Gerard Colby say in "The Will be done" about newspapers. Ya, I get it, the Messiah knows so much that for him to bow its above our intelligence. You are not going to find the answers by seeing what others think, especially when every source you go to is controlled by power and money.

For me this is not Obama good Bush baaaad, this is about the future, we are being sold down the river and have been sold down the river for forty years. You have no idea.

When I can go into the supermarket and buy a bottle of nice wine for 1$ and a pound of butter for 1.65$ I know there is a problem, did I say I was in Madrid, I am in Madrid, you do not have to tell me what the news in the world is saying I can turn on the TV. Last week it was all about Madonna, Than the G20 protests, now the terrorists they call pirates.

So when I see good wine cheap, butter cheap, butter is 4.50 a pound in hemet california, when I see the difference I know something is up. For one I know we are idiots in the USA, we will pay more for butter without thinking and WE WILL VOTE FOR A MARXISTS without thinking.

Obama bowed to the king, first president ever, if you are young you better wake up now, whats the worst that will happen if you listen to me, nothing, you will have another corporate controlled puppet, the best that can happen if you listen to me, maybe nothing more, but at least you wont post its not in the papers so it means nothing.

Read, learn, dont take my word, go to The Mark Levin Show » Audio download his shows and listen for a week, than see what you think, but dont stop thier, read books, old books, talk to people, which you are. I may not know much but I can see what spain has because I am here, I can tell you what they think because I am here, you know what they think, they think the news covered Madonna too much and that Obama is a concieted bore that speaks of himself.

Everything is about Obama and "look at me, I am black, bet you didnt expect this from the usa", I paraphrased, Obama did say that.

The guy has an idealogy and its not good for us, most likely if you really thought things through you would find out your are conservative. I have never met a liberal, I a have met ignorant people who call themselves liberal but just because you think you are liberal does not make you a liberal.

 

[AnnECUCherry]

And who came up with the statistic considering no westerner is allowed to roam free in Saudi Arabia, saudi, saudi, uh, Saudi is the family name, so one family names the entire kingdom after themselves and you site a credible source as the UN.

So of the Moslem world of 1,000,000,000 which percentage live in Saudi (family name) Arabia, than you must also know that in Saudi Arabia woman are not allowed to learn so that means your figure only refers to men so you got to cut it in half so 42% at best can read and write, according to the figures by an agency that is literally in bed with the Arabs.

You got to read more and I wish I was at home so I could quote some of the books in my library, no matter, just do a google search on words like, teacher in Saudi (family name) Arabia and see what the teachers say. I know what they say, they say even though the MEN come to school they do not bother to learn.

So in the completely censcored KINGDOM of Saudi (family name) Arabia you will cite the United Nations as a source.

You got to do better than that.

So you see your president Bow but its not and the proof is the United Nations because they say less than half the people read???

Oh, baloney, krotch. Both DiveCon and I have posted several sources of statistics that prove you completely wrong.

Your source dont mean squat, you cannot even spell bologna.

I stated the truth, pure and simple.

Why did you not name the authors of your favorite arab writers, modern day writers, why do you state that teachers lie, teachers that state thier students in saudi arabia are all male, why dont you tell us how woman must cover thier face and never fall in love, tell us how the great arab writers are woman, that they are not married off while still children, yes, they are married, by the negotiation of men, while they are young, 12, 13, 14, and they have babies at that age, so your statistic tells us these young mothers, who have no choice in marriage, who are literally property, your statistic includes these woman.

You are nothing but ignorant. Come back and disagree than you are a liar. For I have now told you the cold, hard, facts.

A variety of sources have given figures within a reasonable range of each other. None were anywhere near as low as your suggested 42%.

But we digress.

Are or are not Saudis capable of receiving and comprehending news stories? If they are, why no comments from Saudis about Obama's greeting other than one describing it as showing "warmth"?

And BTW here are commentaries on the education of women in Saudi Arabia:

...women as a group have excelled academically over males in secondary schools, and the number of female graduates has outstripped the number of males, even though the number of girls entering school was considerably lower than the number of boys. The number of female secondary level graduates has increased more than tenfold, from 1,674 in 1975 to 18,211 in 1988. Calculated as a combination of the hours invested in those who drop out or repeat classes and those who graduate, it took an average of eighteen pupil years to produce a male graduate of general education, as opposed to fifteen pupil years to produce a female graduate....

At least two of the universities founded for religious instruction have integrated secular subjects and practical training into their curriculum.... In 1986 enrollment numbered 12,000 students with an additional 1,000 in graduate programs. More than 1,500 of these students were women. Umm al Qura University, originally a college of sharia with an institute to teach Arabic to non-Arabs, had grown to include colleges of agricultural sciences, applied sciences, engineering, and social sciences. Of its 7,500 undergraduate students in 1984, 51 percent, or 3,800, were women....

Saudi Arabia - EDUCATION

...Since the 1960s, Saudi Arabia has made substantial gains in the education of women. Primary enrollment rates for girls have reached 66%, with secondary enrollment at 64% and higher education enrollment at 25%, versus enrollment for men at 69%, 71% and 20%, respectively. 58% of all university students are women....

UNDP-POGAR:: Gender and Citizenship: Arab Countries

 

[KittenKoder]

what business deal was cut...

The bow isn't the deal, it's a sign of mutual respect between two people, Obama offered and was turned down, in many cultures that's an insult and warrants a declaration of war.

Point is this: Why is it so important (we have plenty of reasons to not like Oabama) to pin this disgrace committed by another countries leader on our president instead of squarely where it belongs ... on the other leader. Demand an apology from them for not returning the same sign of respect offered. Obama is our president right now, his relations with other countries will reflect on us, if we turn on him with this then we will appear weak as a country, but if we instead turn our anger to those who disrespected us we will appear strong. It's a chance to show the Middle East that we are tired of being the bad guy.

what deal was obama offering....

I think you missed the whole point of the bow, it's not a deal or a "signature", it's a sign of mutual respect, reread my post.

 

[manu1959]

The bow isn't the deal, it's a sign of mutual respect between two people, Obama offered and was turned down, in many cultures that's an insult and warrants a declaration of war.

Point is this: Why is it so important (we have plenty of reasons to not like Oabama) to pin this disgrace committed by another countries leader on our president instead of squarely where it belongs ... on the other leader. Demand an apology from them for not returning the same sign of respect offered. Obama is our president right now, his relations with other countries will reflect on us, if we turn on him with this then we will appear weak as a country, but if we instead turn our anger to those who disrespected us we will appear strong. It's a chance to show the Middle East that we are tired of being the bad guy.

what deal was obama offering....

I think you missed the whole point of the bow, it's not a deal or a "signature", it's a sign of mutual respect, reread my post.

i read every word.....you are changing what you said it means....you originally said......

"many great business propositions end in bows"

you have now ended up at respect.....

ok it wasn't a deal......why did obama bow to show respect....what is it about the king that deserves obamas respect....