Jesus on Marriage...

[BluePhantom]

i'm sure they're not without foundation, but i doubt that they're without bias.

most defenders of orthodoxy should be dismissed out of hand.

Well in that the article was written for a Christian website with the intent of making a point that would reinforce the current Christian point of view, yeah it was biased, but it did offer some opposing points of view.

The reality is that people are arguing about what arsenokotai means and some people are arguing on behalf of the traditional Christian point of view and some people are arguing against it, and what that boils down to is that no one really knows.

So everyone is free, of course, to draw their own conclusions but for me...before I start beating homosexuals over the head about religious aspects, I need to know good and damned well that it's what God wants and if it's unclear then I have to defer to simple concepts like "let God sort it out", because from my perspective if I start hammering people for something I only THINK God opposes then I run a real risk of oppressing people against the will of God and I think that's a lot more problematic than simply saying "meh....let God deal with it" especially when "letting God deal with it" is such a massive and undeniable theme in Christianity.

You see what I am getting at? All these scripture we are discussing could mean what the English translations say...it's possible if you use very narrow definitions and take a few liberties here and there. But from my research it's very unlikely and I need to be certain before I endorse the persecution of homosexuals or any other demographic of society. I am not going to do it on a mere possibility because God's first laws are to love, forgive, and treat others with the love of Christ. So I choose to err on the side of those things, rather than a long shot of what may or may not be true based upon such problematic and confused evidence. I think that's a reasonable position.

 

[mal]

i'm sure they're not without foundation, but i doubt that they're without bias.

most defenders of orthodoxy should be dismissed out of hand.

I Disagree... And I don't Dismiss those like Blue out of hand.

I Actually Respect that he Believes what he Writes and I Respectfully Disagree with him.

Would have been Nice of the Fucking Trolls could have Stayed out of this Forum for the Discussion, but what can you do?...



peace...

would be nice if you weren't a complete fuckwit, but what can you do?

This is about my Sigline isn't it?...



peace...

 

[mal]

i'm sure they're not without foundation, but i doubt that they're without bias.

most defenders of orthodoxy should be dismissed out of hand.

Well in that the article was written for a Christian website with the intent of making a point that would reinforce the current Christian point of view, yeah it was biased, but it did offer some opposing points of view.

The reality is that people are arguing about what arsenokotai means and some people are arguing on behalf of the traditional Christian point of view and some people are arguing against it, and what that boils down to is that no one really knows.

So everyone is free, of course, to draw their own conclusions but for me...before I start beating homosexuals over the head about religious aspects, I need to know good and damned well that it's what God wants and if it's unclear then I have to defer to simple concepts like "let God sort it out", because from my perspective if I start hammering people for something I only THINK God opposes then I run a real risk of oppressing people against the will of God and I think that's a lot more problematic than simply saying "meh....let God deal with it" especially when "letting God deal with it" is such a massive and undeniable theme in Christianity.

You see what I am getting at? All these scripture we are discussing could mean what the English translations say...it's possible if you use very narrow definitions and take a few liberties here and there. But from my research it's very unlikely and I need to be certain before I endorse the persecution of homosexuals or any other demographic of society. I am not going to do it on a mere possibility because God's first laws are to love, forgive, and treat others with the love of Christ. So I choose to err on the side of those things, rather than a long shot of what may or may not be true based upon such problematic and confused evidence. I think that's a reasonable position.

Loving and Forgiving the Sinner does not mean Embrace the Sin.



peace...

 

[Valerie]

i'm sure they're not without foundation, but i doubt that they're without bias.

most defenders of orthodoxy should be dismissed out of hand.

Well in that the article was written for a Christian website with the intent of making a point that would reinforce the current Christian point of view, yeah it was biased, but it did offer some opposing points of view.

The reality is that people are arguing about what arsenokotai means and some people are arguing on behalf of the traditional Christian point of view and some people are arguing against it, and what that boils down to is that no one really knows.

So everyone is free, of course, to draw their own conclusions but for me...before I start beating homosexuals over the head about religious aspects, I need to know good and damned well that it's what God wants and if it's unclear then I have to defer to simple concepts like "let God sort it out", because from my perspective if I start hammering people for something I only THINK God opposes then I run a real risk of oppressing people against the will of God and I think that's a lot more problematic than simply saying "meh....let God deal with it" especially when "letting God deal with it" is such a massive and undeniable theme in Christianity.

You see what I am getting at? All these scripture we are discussing could mean what the English translations say...it's possible if you use very narrow definitions and take a few liberties here and there. But from my research it's very unlikely and I need to be certain before I endorse the persecution of homosexuals or any other demographic of society. I am not going to do it on a mere possibility because God's first laws are to love, forgive, and treat others with the love of Christ. So I choose to err on the side of those things, rather than a long shot of what may or may not be true based upon such problematic and confused evidence. I think that's a reasonable position.

Loving and Forgiving the Sinner does not mean Embrace the Sin.



peace...

Tell us again how sinners need to find another religion...

 

[BDBoop]

i'm sure they're not without foundation, but i doubt that they're without bias.

most defenders of orthodoxy should be dismissed out of hand.

I Disagree... And I don't Dismiss those like Blue out of hand.

I Actually Respect that he Believes what he Writes and I Respectfully Disagree with him.

Would have been Nice of the Fucking Trolls could have Stayed out of this Forum for the Discussion, but what can you do?...



peace...

Funny how Blue started a group to discuss this very subject, and invited non-trolls.

I got an invite. Did you?

 

[Amelia]

i'm sure they're not without foundation, but i doubt that they're without bias.

most defenders of orthodoxy should be dismissed out of hand.

I Disagree... And I don't Dismiss those like Blue out of hand.

I Actually Respect that he Believes what he Writes and I Respectfully Disagree with him.

Would have been Nice of the Fucking Trolls could have Stayed out of this Forum for the Discussion, but what can you do?...



peace...

Funny how Blue started a group to discuss this very subject, and invited non-trolls.

I got an invite. Did you?

He considers me a troll?

I'm crushed.

 

[del]

I Disagree... And I don't Dismiss those like Blue out of hand.

I Actually Respect that he Believes what he Writes and I Respectfully Disagree with him.

Would have been Nice of the Fucking Trolls could have Stayed out of this Forum for the Discussion, but what can you do?...



peace...

would be nice if you weren't a complete fuckwit, but what can you do?

This is about my Sigline isn't it?...



peace...

no, dummy, it's about being a fuckwit.

put your sig in 44 pt bold for all i dave.

i stand by what i said.

 

[BDBoop]

I Disagree... And I don't Dismiss those like Blue out of hand.

I Actually Respect that he Believes what he Writes and I Respectfully Disagree with him.

Would have been Nice of the Fucking Trolls could have Stayed out of this Forum for the Discussion, but what can you do?...



peace...

Funny how Blue started a group to discuss this very subject, and invited non-trolls.

I got an invite. Did you?

He considers me a troll?

I'm crushed.

You goob. I believe I recommended you.

 

[mal]

would be nice if you weren't a complete fuckwit, but what can you do?

This is about my Sigline isn't it?

...



peace...

no, dummy, it's about being a fuckwit.

put your sig in 44 pt bold for all i dave.

i stand by what i said.

I Dis'd ya and now yoar Shattered Notherfukkkkkkkka!



peace...

 

[mal]

i'm sure they're not without foundation, but i doubt that they're without bias.

most defenders of orthodoxy should be dismissed out of hand.

I Disagree... And I don't Dismiss those like Blue out of hand.

I Actually Respect that he Believes what he Writes and I Respectfully Disagree with him.

Would have been Nice of the Fucking Trolls could have Stayed out of this Forum for the Discussion, but what can you do?...



peace...

Funny how Blue started a group to discuss this very subject, and invited non-trolls.

I got an invite. Did you?

^Taking the Internets WAY too Seriously..




peace...

 

[Ravi]

This article suggests that Paul might have chosen not to use the word "paiderastïs" because it had a more restrictive meaning than he intended.

Is Arsenokoitai Really that Mysterious? | CRI

Proposition 3. The term arsenokoitai itself indicates an inclusive sense: all men who play the active role in homosexual intercourse. Had Paul intended to single out pederasts he could have used the technical term paiderastïs.

Interesting. His argument seems based on Paul's faulty translation of Leviticus.

 

[Ravi]

Thank you, BP, for a well written and informative post. I have to say it confirms my bias rather well, lol.

It all boils down, imo, to the original bad translation of Leviticus, later used by the gospels as fact. It does seem extremely odd that we as a culture seem far more consumed with the question of homosexuality than anyone in biblical times. There is certainly scant mention of it in the bible, if any mention.

And I still can't quite understand why Jesus kept quite about it if it was important to him.

 

[mal]

Thank you, BP, for a well written and informative post. I have to say it confirms my bias rather well, lol.

It all boils down, imo, to the original bad translation of Leviticus, later used by the gospels as fact. It does seem extremely odd that we as a culture seem far more consumed with the question of homosexuality than anyone in biblical times. There is certainly scant mention of it in the bible, if any mention.

And I still can't quite understand why Jesus kept quite about it if it was important to him.

Same reason he was quiet about Bestiality?... Was that translated incorrectly also in Leviticus 18 & 20?...

Or does this Substanceless Theory of a Linguist only Conveniently apply for you Activists?...

Continued Fail.



peace...

 

[Newby]

Well in that the article was written for a Christian website with the intent of making a point that would reinforce the current Christian point of view, yeah it was biased, but it did offer some opposing points of view.

The reality is that people are arguing about what arsenokotai means and some people are arguing on behalf of the traditional Christian point of view and some people are arguing against it, and what that boils down to is that no one really knows.

So everyone is free, of course, to draw their own conclusions but for me...before I start beating homosexuals over the head about religious aspects, I need to know good and damned well that it's what God wants and if it's unclear then I have to defer to simple concepts like "let God sort it out", because from my perspective if I start hammering people for something I only THINK God opposes then I run a real risk of oppressing people against the will of God and I think that's a lot more problematic than simply saying "meh....let God deal with it" especially when "letting God deal with it" is such a massive and undeniable theme in Christianity.

You see what I am getting at? All these scripture we are discussing could mean what the English translations say...it's possible if you use very narrow definitions and take a few liberties here and there. But from my research it's very unlikely and I need to be certain before I endorse the persecution of homosexuals or any other demographic of society. I am not going to do it on a mere possibility because God's first laws are to love, forgive, and treat others with the love of Christ. So I choose to err on the side of those things, rather than a long shot of what may or may not be true based upon such problematic and confused evidence. I think that's a reasonable position.

Loving and Forgiving the Sinner does not mean Embrace the Sin.



peace...

Tell us again how sinners need to find another religion...

But that wasn't what he said, Val, he said that if you expect the church to not call it a sin and say it's 'okay', then you should find another religion.

 

[BDBoop]

This is about my Sigline isn't it?

...



peace...

no, dummy, it's about being a fuckwit.

put your sig in 44 pt bold for all i dave.

i stand by what i said.

I Dis'd ya and now yoar Shattered Notherfukkkkkkkka!



peace...

^Taking the Internets WAY too Seriously..




peace...

Yes, you SO are.

 

[mal]

no, dummy, it's about being a fuckwit.

put your sig in 44 pt bold for all i dave.

i stand by what i said.

I Dis'd ya and now yoar Shattered Notherfukkkkkkkka!



peace...

^Taking the Internets WAY too Seriously..




peace...

Yes, you SO are.

BedPoop the Complete Failure is a Complete Fallure... Again.



peace...

 

[BDBoop]

I Dis'd ya and now yoar Shattered Notherfukkkkkkkka!



peace...

^Taking the Internets WAY too Seriously..




peace...

Yes, you SO are.

BedPoop the Complete Failure is a Complete Fallure... Again.



peace...

And Mal is still - not again; STILL completely unhinged, undiagnosed and untreated.

Still.

I do wish you had peace. You'd probably leave this place, never to darken its doorstep again.

 

[mal]

Yes, you SO are.

BedPoop the Complete Failure is a Complete Fallure... Again.



peace...

And Mal is still - not again; STILL completely unhinged, undiagnosed and untreated.

Still.

I do wish you had peace. You'd probably leave this place, never to darken its doorstep again.

Tell me how nobody here even likes me anyway!...



peace...

 

[BDBoop]

BedPoop the Complete Failure is a Complete Fallure... Again.



peace...

And Mal is still - not again; STILL completely unhinged, undiagnosed and untreated.

Still.

I do wish you had peace. You'd probably leave this place, never to darken its doorstep again.

Tell me how nobody here even likes me anyway!...



peace...

They don't? I did not know that.

Learn something new, etc.

 

[Buford]

This article suggests that Paul might have chosen not to use the word "paiderastïs" because it had a more restrictive meaning than he intended.

Is Arsenokoitai Really that Mysterious? | CRI

Proposition 3. The term arsenokoitai itself indicates an inclusive sense: all men who play the active role in homosexual intercourse. Had Paul intended to single out pederasts he could have used the technical term paiderastïs.

Interesting. His argument seems based on Paul's faulty translation of Leviticus.

That's pretty funny...."Paul's faulty translation of Leviticus".......