John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

[Indeependent]

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

As I don't use New Testament distortions of the Tanach to prove any point, you will have to find someone else, if your goal is to rip someone to shreds.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

You will have to be more specific on your perspective of what the Catholic Church's goals were. What I usually find is someone disapproves of what one person or community did in a certain situation, calls that "Church Goal" and blames all Catholics who ever lived to this very day. In fact, we can find Catholics in that time or community equally disapproving and/or advocating change so that the Church lives up to Church goals/ideals.

If you believe your NT quotes are not a distortion of the Tanach, I believe you.
Bacause you've been frightened your whole life not to investigate anything.
I get it.

 

[Indeependent]

What you really mean is that you'd rather deal with someone who can't rip the NT and the RCC to shreds. That would be an honest post that I can respect.

You really don't get it, do you? I have been studying religion my entire life. I have been on religion forums for over ten years. Most of what there is on religion forums are people who want to rip God, the New Testament, and the Catholic Church to shreds. You want honesty: I have no interest in interacting with someone like you if all you can offer is the same ol', same ol. I began finding that boring many years past, but I put up with it for the same reason I garden. Part of that which you enjoy most comes with weeds and thorns.

My belief: God has His own secret staircase to each individual's heart. God reveals Himself secretly, as well as openly, in many different ways, using many different avenues.

What I seek: People who can freely discuss God and their own faith without that need to first utterly destroy the ways, avenues, and staircases of another. And, as I picked up on several days ago, currently, that's not you. You are angry with every other word I communicate to others, so, as I have no wish to fan those embers, I make no effort to seek you out. I wish you peace and may God bless you and keep you.

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

Independent------what seems like a perversion of Torah to YOU-------is, according to DA CHURCH------an AUTHORIZED FIXED UP VERSION of things via the trinity member, Jesus. One of the many issues I have is that those FIX-UPS seem to me, based on my intelligent interpretations on HOW BOOKS ARE MADE------invariably, afterthoughts, invented long after the man died which COINCIDENTALLY conform to the needs and propensities of Imperialist Rome and some Nicean wishful thinking.
If you do not believe that Jesus actually said what unidentified
John or the greek speaking Luke or Matthew (whoever he was) said he said.........you come to my understanding of the NT

Then Da RCC should not have outright inkliodead miss Kwotz and udder inn korekt miss tranz lay shins and owt of kunt ext ver ses.

Hebrew grammar is UNKNOWABLE

I don't know why you think such.

 

[Meriweather]

Gee zus man, go lookup Constantine.
Do you have a severe case of arthritis or fear of reading anything other than the NT?

Sigh. I've probably read more of Constantine than you have, and from more perspectives. Probably true of books outside of the New Testament as well, unless you, too, are a prolific reader/researcher. If you wish to discuss a specific point, bring it up. Generalities serve no point.

 

[Meriweather]

If you believe your NT quotes are not a distortion of the Tanach, I believe you. Bacause you've been frightened your whole life not to investigate anything.
I get it.

First, let's stop with the ignorant personalities. We don't know each other that well. Second, as I very seldom use quotes, you should be able to quickly point out which New Testament quote I've used to distort the Tanach. Keep in mind, not everything is about the Tanach. Some things are simply New Testament.

 

[Indeependent]

If you believe your NT quotes are not a distortion of the Tanach, I believe you. Bacause you've been frightened your whole life not to investigate anything.
I get it.

First, let's stop with the ignorant personalities. We don't know each other that well. Second, as I very seldom use quotes, you should be able to quickly point out which New Testament quote I've used to distort the Tanach. Keep in mind, not everything is about the Tanach. Some things are simply New Testament.

"We don't know each other that well."
Like anybody here knows each other well.
I've been reading your posts for at least a year and you've been reading mine for over a year.


"Some things are simply New Testament"
Wow!
You've got to be kidding!
Heck, almost every quote you and others have used here is from Tanach...you just don't know it because you never read it.
Or, should I say, studied it.

Every damn kind thing Jesus supposedly said comes straight from the Torah, but the RCC wanted to make Jews evil so they lifted it without referencing Tanach.

 

[irosie91]

You really don't get it, do you? I have been studying religion my entire life. I have been on religion forums for over ten years. Most of what there is on religion forums are people who want to rip God, the New Testament, and the Catholic Church to shreds. You want honesty: I have no interest in interacting with someone like you if all you can offer is the same ol', same ol. I began finding that boring many years past, but I put up with it for the same reason I garden. Part of that which you enjoy most comes with weeds and thorns.

My belief: God has His own secret staircase to each individual's heart. God reveals Himself secretly, as well as openly, in many different ways, using many different avenues.

What I seek: People who can freely discuss God and their own faith without that need to first utterly destroy the ways, avenues, and staircases of another. And, as I picked up on several days ago, currently, that's not you. You are angry with every other word I communicate to others, so, as I have no wish to fan those embers, I make no effort to seek you out. I wish you peace and may God bless you and keep you.

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

Independent------what seems like a perversion of Torah to YOU-------is, according to DA CHURCH------an AUTHORIZED FIXED UP VERSION of things via the trinity member, Jesus. One of the many issues I have is that those FIX-UPS seem to me, based on my intelligent interpretations on HOW BOOKS ARE MADE------invariably, afterthoughts, invented long after the man died which COINCIDENTALLY conform to the needs and propensities of Imperialist Rome and some Nicean wishful thinking.
If you do not believe that Jesus actually said what unidentified
John or the greek speaking Luke or Matthew (whoever he was) said he said.........you come to my understanding of the NT

Then Da RCC should not have outright inkliodead miss Kwotz and udder inn korekt miss tranz lay shins and owt of kunt ext ver ses.

Hebrew grammar is UNKNOWABLE

I don't know why you think such.

well----there was a time when I thought calculus was tough-------then I practiced-------it's like riding a bike

 

[Indeependent]

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

Independent------what seems like a perversion of Torah to YOU-------is, according to DA CHURCH------an AUTHORIZED FIXED UP VERSION of things via the trinity member, Jesus. One of the many issues I have is that those FIX-UPS seem to me, based on my intelligent interpretations on HOW BOOKS ARE MADE------invariably, afterthoughts, invented long after the man died which COINCIDENTALLY conform to the needs and propensities of Imperialist Rome and some Nicean wishful thinking.
If you do not believe that Jesus actually said what unidentified
John or the greek speaking Luke or Matthew (whoever he was) said he said.........you come to my understanding of the NT

Then Da RCC should not have outright inkliodead miss Kwotz and udder inn korekt miss tranz lay shins and owt of kunt ext ver ses.

Hebrew grammar is UNKNOWABLE

I don't know why you think such.

well----there was a time when I thought calculus was tough-------then I practiced-------it's like riding a bike

For the most part, the Tanach is stated in past tense.
Grammar gets far more interesting as one has more experiences in life and has a more mature understanding of where the verse is trying to guide one.

 

[irosie91]

Independent------what seems like a perversion of Torah to YOU-------is, according to DA CHURCH------an AUTHORIZED FIXED UP VERSION of things via the trinity member, Jesus. One of the many issues I have is that those FIX-UPS seem to me, based on my intelligent interpretations on HOW BOOKS ARE MADE------invariably, afterthoughts, invented long after the man died which COINCIDENTALLY conform to the needs and propensities of Imperialist Rome and some Nicean wishful thinking.
If you do not believe that Jesus actually said what unidentified
John or the greek speaking Luke or Matthew (whoever he was) said he said.........you come to my understanding of the NT

Then Da RCC should not have outright inkliodead miss Kwotz and udder inn korekt miss tranz lay shins and owt of kunt ext ver ses.

Hebrew grammar is UNKNOWABLE

I don't know why you think such.

well----there was a time when I thought calculus was tough-------then I practiced-------it's like riding a bike

For the most part, the Tanach is stated in past tense.
Grammar gets far more interesting as one has more experiences in life and has a more mature understanding of where the verse is trying to guide one.

I don't want guidance-----I was to READ THE BOOK.
calculus is in NEWTONIAN---------and involves funny
symbols------and things that are theoretically either INFINITE--------or so much of it that it might just as well be infinite and
summations of ALL OF THEM----maybe, depending on the
limits (whatevah that means). The Koran is absolutely
concretely clear-----the eternal and unchanging word of
muhummad and encompasses ALL the wisdom of the
universe. The NT is a novel by Charles Dickens ending
SPREAD THE "GOSPEL" whatevah that means

 

[Indeependent]

Then Da RCC should not have outright inkliodead miss Kwotz and udder inn korekt miss tranz lay shins and owt of kunt ext ver ses.

Hebrew grammar is UNKNOWABLE

I don't know why you think such.

well----there was a time when I thought calculus was tough-------then I practiced-------it's like riding a bike

For the most part, the Tanach is stated in past tense.
Grammar gets far more interesting as one has more experiences in life and has a more mature understanding of where the verse is trying to guide one.

I don't want guidance-----I was to READ THE BOOK.
calculus is in NEWTONIAN---------and involves funny
symbols------and things that are theoretically either INFINITE--------or so much of it that it might just as well be infinite and
summations of ALL OF THEM----maybe, depending on the
limits (whatevah that means). The Koran is absolutely
concretely clear-----the eternal and unchanging word of
muhummad and encompasses ALL the wisdom of the
universe. The NT is a novel by Charles Dickens ending
SPREAD THE "GOSPEL" whatevah that means

You misunderstood me.
The Torah speaks to me very differently as my life progresses.
You have to start reading, watching, listening and there's no lack of material available.

 

[Meriweather]

"We don't know each other that well."
Like anybody here knows each other well.
I've been reading your posts for at least a year and you've been reading mine for over a year.


"Some things are simply New Testament"
Wow!
You've got to be kidding!
Heck, almost every quote you and others have used here is from Tanach...you just don't know it because you never read it.
Or, should I say, studied it.

You certainly don't act like you have read my posts, and truthfully, I don't recall reading many of yours. I have gone months without stopping in here, and when I do, I generally limit myself to just a few threads. Some of the things you say, blow me away. For example:

Every damn kind thing Jesus supposedly said comes straight from the Torah, but the RCC wanted to make Jews evil so they lifted it without referencing Tanach.

Have you ever taken a look at the Catholic Study Bible? It footnotes practically everything. Apparently you have never gone to Catholic school because we traced things Jesus said back to Old Testament times. We had Jewish Rabbis come in and teach us some of this. As an adult, there have been at least four Jews who have taught me the Tanach. The kindest ones have been Jews who turned to atheism, but I'm used to Jews angry at everything New Testament as well.

If you have read me as closely as you claim, you would already know this. Please get off my back. If you wish to discuss religion, faith, God, I am all ears, but I'm not interested in discussing me. Any further comments about me shall be ignored.

 

[Indeependent]

"We don't know each other that well."
Like anybody here knows each other well.
I've been reading your posts for at least a year and you've been reading mine for over a year.


"Some things are simply New Testament"
Wow!
You've got to be kidding!
Heck, almost every quote you and others have used here is from Tanach...you just don't know it because you never read it.
Or, should I say, studied it.

You certainly don't act like you have read my posts, and truthfully, I don't recall reading many of yours. I have gone months without stopping in here, and when I do, I generally limit myself to just a few threads. Some of the things you say, blow me away. For example:

Every damn kind thing Jesus supposedly said comes straight from the Torah, but the RCC wanted to make Jews evil so they lifted it without referencing Tanach.

Have you ever taken a look at the Catholic Study Bible? It footnotes practically everything. Apparently you have never gone to Catholic school because we traced things Jesus said back to Old Testament times. We had Jewish Rabbis come in and teach us some of this. As an adult, there have been at least four Jews who have taught me the Tanach. The kindest ones have been Jews who turned to atheism, but I'm used to Jews angry at everything New Testament as well.

If you have read me as closely as you claim, you would already know this. Please get off my back. If you wish to discuss religion, faith, God, I am all ears, but I'm not interested in discussing me. Any further comments about me shall be ignored.

In other words, you have to resort to a text that perverted my Scripture.

I can easily discuss God, religion and faith.

You will probably have to ignore me as I am betting you can't resist posting a verse here and there.

 

[Indeependent]

"We don't know each other that well."
Like anybody here knows each other well.
I've been reading your posts for at least a year and you've been reading mine for over a year.


"Some things are simply New Testament"
Wow!
You've got to be kidding!
Heck, almost every quote you and others have used here is from Tanach...you just don't know it because you never read it.
Or, should I say, studied it.

You certainly don't act like you have read my posts, and truthfully, I don't recall reading many of yours. I have gone months without stopping in here, and when I do, I generally limit myself to just a few threads. Some of the things you say, blow me away. For example:

Every damn kind thing Jesus supposedly said comes straight from the Torah, but the RCC wanted to make Jews evil so they lifted it without referencing Tanach.

Have you ever taken a look at the Catholic Study Bible? It footnotes practically everything. Apparently you have never gone to Catholic school because we traced things Jesus said back to Old Testament times. We had Jewish Rabbis come in and teach us some of this. As an adult, there have been at least four Jews who have taught me the Tanach. The kindest ones have been Jews who turned to atheism, but I'm used to Jews angry at everything New Testament as well.

If you have read me as closely as you claim, you would already know this. Please get off my back. If you wish to discuss religion, faith, God, I am all ears, but I'm not interested in discussing me. Any further comments about me shall be ignored.

As a note, I notice you don't attract too much traffic as is.

 

[irosie91]

"We don't know each other that well."
Like anybody here knows each other well.
I've been reading your posts for at least a year and you've been reading mine for over a year.


"Some things are simply New Testament"
Wow!
You've got to be kidding!
Heck, almost every quote you and others have used here is from Tanach...you just don't know it because you never read it.
Or, should I say, studied it.

You certainly don't act like you have read my posts, and truthfully, I don't recall reading many of yours. I have gone months without stopping in here, and when I do, I generally limit myself to just a few threads. Some of the things you say, blow me away. For example:

Every damn kind thing Jesus supposedly said comes straight from the Torah, but the RCC wanted to make Jews evil so they lifted it without referencing Tanach.

Have you ever taken a look at the Catholic Study Bible? It footnotes practically everything. Apparently you have never gone to Catholic school because we traced things Jesus said back to Old Testament times. We had Jewish Rabbis come in and teach us some of this. As an adult, there have been at least four Jews who have taught me the Tanach. The kindest ones have been Jews who turned to atheism, but I'm used to Jews angry at everything New Testament as well.

If you have read me as closely as you claim, you would already know this. Please get off my back. If you wish to discuss religion, faith, God, I am all ears, but I'm not interested in discussing me. Any further comments about me shall be ignored.

I don't think that everything Jesus is reliably reported as saying is IN THE TANACH---specifically. Seems to me that he quotes the Talmud lots and Hillel specifically and generally
does the Pharisee party-line

 

[irosie91]

I am surprised that Meri says that her catholic school training
footnoted the NT as per the OT-----Lots of my neighbors who went to catholic school claimed that they were "not allowed"
to read the OT

 

[Indeependent]

"We don't know each other that well."
Like anybody here knows each other well.
I've been reading your posts for at least a year and you've been reading mine for over a year.


"Some things are simply New Testament"
Wow!
You've got to be kidding!
Heck, almost every quote you and others have used here is from Tanach...you just don't know it because you never read it.
Or, should I say, studied it.

You certainly don't act like you have read my posts, and truthfully, I don't recall reading many of yours. I have gone months without stopping in here, and when I do, I generally limit myself to just a few threads. Some of the things you say, blow me away. For example:

Every damn kind thing Jesus supposedly said comes straight from the Torah, but the RCC wanted to make Jews evil so they lifted it without referencing Tanach.

Have you ever taken a look at the Catholic Study Bible? It footnotes practically everything. Apparently you have never gone to Catholic school because we traced things Jesus said back to Old Testament times. We had Jewish Rabbis come in and teach us some of this. As an adult, there have been at least four Jews who have taught me the Tanach. The kindest ones have been Jews who turned to atheism, but I'm used to Jews angry at everything New Testament as well.

If you have read me as closely as you claim, you would already know this. Please get off my back. If you wish to discuss religion, faith, God, I am all ears, but I'm not interested in discussing me. Any further comments about me shall be ignored.

I don't think that everything Jesus is reliably reported as saying is IN THE TANACH---specifically. Seems to me that he quotes the Talmud lots and Hillel specifically and generally
does the Pharisee party-line

Giving charity...a Jesus suggestion, an actual Commandment in the Torah.
Turn the Other Cheek...a Jesus suggestion, Not to Seek Revenge an actual Commandment in the Torah.
Serve people shit loads of fish...

 

[Meriweather]

In other words, you have to resort to a text that perverted my Scripture.

Not what I said at all. If you don't wish to discuss the New Testament, we don't have to discuss it.

I can easily discuss God, religion and faith.

Very good. Then start us off anywhere you would like.

You will probably have to ignore me as I am betting you can't resist posting a verse here and there.

I won't be ignoring your discussion of verses. I'll be ignoring your discussion of personal remarks about me.

 

[Meriweather]

As a note, I notice you don't attract too much traffic as is.

Correct. I prefer the background both here and in real life.

 

[irosie91]

"We don't know each other that well."
Like anybody here knows each other well.
I've been reading your posts for at least a year and you've been reading mine for over a year.


"Some things are simply New Testament"
Wow!
You've got to be kidding!
Heck, almost every quote you and others have used here is from Tanach...you just don't know it because you never read it.
Or, should I say, studied it.

You certainly don't act like you have read my posts, and truthfully, I don't recall reading many of yours. I have gone months without stopping in here, and when I do, I generally limit myself to just a few threads. Some of the things you say, blow me away. For example:

Every damn kind thing Jesus supposedly said comes straight from the Torah, but the RCC wanted to make Jews evil so they lifted it without referencing Tanach.

Have you ever taken a look at the Catholic Study Bible? It footnotes practically everything. Apparently you have never gone to Catholic school because we traced things Jesus said back to Old Testament times. We had Jewish Rabbis come in and teach us some of this. As an adult, there have been at least four Jews who have taught me the Tanach. The kindest ones have been Jews who turned to atheism, but I'm used to Jews angry at everything New Testament as well.

If you have read me as closely as you claim, you would already know this. Please get off my back. If you wish to discuss religion, faith, God, I am all ears, but I'm not interested in discussing me. Any further comments about me shall be ignored.

I don't think that everything Jesus is reliably reported as saying is IN THE TANACH---specifically. Seems to me that he quotes the Talmud lots and Hillel specifically and generally
does the Pharisee party-line

Giving charity...a Jesus suggestion, an actual Commandment in the Torah.
Turn the Other Cheek...a Jesus suggestion, Not to Seek Revenge an actual Commandment in the Torah.
Serve people shit loads of fish...

you would LOVE discussions on the GLORIOUS INNOVATIONS OF MUHUMMAD. I read the PICTHAL
translation about 50 years ago-----the translator wrote a
FORWARD in which he credited Muhummad with just about
every laudable social innovation since Bereshit. ----charity,
freeing of slaves, right for a woman to own property, not
killing infants, bathing-------civilization in general. I was so
confused that I concluded that this muhummad guy must have lived 7000 years ago. Getting back to the NT----I do not believe that Jesus refused to wash his hands before lunch which meant that eating pork is ok. If a person refused to
wash his hands back then------he would be considered
insane and dangerous. My hubby is from a very -----ancient kind of community------EVERYONE washes his hands from age two----INCESSANTLY, Its automatic behavior----like covering your face or at least turning away whilst sneezing

 

[LittleNipper]

I'd wish you would point out just one.

The Book of Hebrews and its authorship are shrouded in many unknowns. We don't know for certain who the author is; we don't know for certain when it was written; we don't know if it was originally written in Hebrew or Greek--and this last may make a huge difference. Here is one example.

Let's take a look at Hebrews 8:13--first the Greek presentation and its English meaning; the second what a direct translation from the Hebrew into English may have said. (Unfortunately, a copy of the original Hebrew is no longer in existence.)

When he speaks of a new covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing. (Hebrews 8:13 from the Greek)

However, the original Hebrew would have said:

And according to that which he said ‘renewed covenant’ he has antiquated the first to that which has put on antiquity and in coming days behold he offers that which is longed for. (i.e., the renewal of Torah).

Quoting out of context and ignoring a work of complete Scriptural revisionism is intellectually dishonest.
I told you already that you are trained to do this and you have to break out of this trained behavior.
You will now tell me I'm being mean.

 

[LittleNipper]

Hebrews 8, New International Version (NIV) | Chapter 8 | The Bible App | Bible.com

There are so many errors in Hebrews it would take me hours to explain the corruptions from the Torah and Psalms.
There's no way an educated Jew could ever take it seriously.
The shame is your fear base Heaven/Hell paradigm.

Yehudim in Moshiach 8:1-13

Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
8 Now the main point of what is being said is this: we in fact have such a Kohen Gadol, who has taken his moshav LIMIN HASHEM ("at the right hand of the kisse of the kavod in Shomayim" TEHILLIM 110:1).

2 Our Kohen Gadol is mesharet baKodesh (minister in the holy things) of the true Mishkan set up by Adoneinu and not by any mere mortal.

3 For every Kohen Gadol is ordained to offer both minchot and zevakhim, from which it was necessary for this Kohen Gadol to have something also which he might offer.

4 If, therefore, he were on ha’aretz he would not be a kohen, als there are kohanim who offer every korban (sacrifice) according to the Torah;

5 However, the avodas kodesh sherut of these kohanim is service of a copy and shadow of the things in Shomayim, just as Moshe Rabbeinu was warned, when he was about to complete the Mishkan for "URE’EH" ("Now see to it"), Hashem says, "VA’ASEH BETAVNITAM ASHER ATAH MAREH BAHAR" ("that you will make it according to the pattern having been shown to you on the mountain" SHEMOT 25:40).

6 But now our Kohen Gadol has attained a more fest (excellent) avodas kodesh sherut in as much as he is also the Metavekh (Job 33:23; Isa 43:27; 2Ch 32:31; Isa 42:4; cf. Dt 5:5, 22-31) of a more fest (excellent) Brit upon which more auspicious havtachot (promises) have been enacted.

7 For if the Brit HaRishonah had been without fault, it would not have been necessary to speak about a Brit HaShniyah [YIRMEYAH 31:30-33 (31-34)].

8 For, when Hashem finds fault with them, he says, "HINEI YAMIM BA’IM, NE’UM HASHEM, VKHARATI ES BEIS YISRAEL V’ES BEIS YEHUDAH BRIT CHADASHA"("Behold, days are coming, says Hashem, when I will establish with the Beis Yisroel and with the Beis Yehudah a Brit Chadasha”).

9 "Not like the Brit that I made with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to lead them out from the land of Egypt; because they broke my Brit, though I was a husband to them")

10 "KI ZOT HABRIT ASHER EKHROT ES BEIS YISROEL ACHAREI HAYAMIM HAHEM, NE’UM HASHEM; NATATI ES TORATI BEKIRBAM V’AL LIBAM EKHTAVENNAH, V’HAYITI LAHEM L’ELOHIM V’HEMMAH YIH’YU LI LE’AM" ("Because this is the Brit which I will make with the Beis Yisroel after those days, says Hashem: putting my Torah into the mind of them and upon the levavot of them I will write it and I will be to them G-d and they will be to Me a people"— see Jer 31:30-33; also Prov 30:4; 8:30;Yn 1:1; Rev 3:20).

11 "V’LO YELAMMEDU OD ISH ES RE’EHU V’ISH ES AKHIV LEMOR, DE’U ES HASHEM; KI KHULAM YEDE’U OTI LEMIKTANNAM V’AD GEDOLAM" ("No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying ‘Have da’as of Hashem,’ because they will all have da’as of Me, from the least of them to the greatest.")

12 "KI ESLACH LA’AVONAM U’LECHATTATAM LO EZKAR OD" ("For I will forgive the wickedness of them and their sin I will remember no more." Jer 31:30-33 [31-34]).

13 When Hashem uses the word "CHADASHA" he has thereby made the Brit HaRishonah yeshanah and a Brit thus made aging, is near to being yakhlof (vanished).

Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)