Just What is Libertarianism?

[kaz]

People paying for common services, police, military, civilian and civil courts, roads, that sort of thing doesn't contradict living in a free society. Government doing things like redistributing money and taxing some citizens more than others is completely inconsistent with a free society, that's just getting free stuff

You are free to hold that opinion. You are free to try to get others to agree and get the laws changed. Good luck with that. In the meantime, I have already laid out your options. No one said you were always going to get your way.

You get your way because you use guns to get it. Then you talk about a free society. Talk about empty blather. Where does 50% plus one give you a moral imperative to remove my liberty and property? God? Government? "Society"? Based on what do you think you have a right to vote and give my money to someone else that I earned and they didn't? Sorry Kaz, but Steve here gives me a majority. Steve and I decided to take this much of your property. Sucks to be you.

That is what you are advocating. There is nothing moral or right about it. Think about what you said. I am free to convince others that the property I earned is mine. Why should I have to convince anyone to respect that?

 

[M14 Shooter]

No. But you can think that if you like. If I walk into a store and grab a loaf of bread I don't think my freedom is curtailed because I have hand over money for it. That is just the cost of bread.

No one forces you to take the bread. It doesn't belong to you.

You pay for the bread, you get the bread.
You pay for someone else's bread, you get nothing.
When the state forces you to pay for someone else's bread, you are an involuntary servant.

Ok. I'm cool with you being an involuntary servant.

As you apparently hate freedom and liberty, I am not surprised.

If that makes you feel better, be my guest. Now what are you going to do?

Marvel at the stupidity of someone who takes no issue with an involuntary servant of the state.

 

[PratchettFan]

People paying for common services, police, military, civilian and civil courts, roads, that sort of thing doesn't contradict living in a free society. Government doing things like redistributing money and taxing some citizens more than others is completely inconsistent with a free society, that's just getting free stuff

You are free to hold that opinion. You are free to try to get others to agree and get the laws changed. Good luck with that. In the meantime, I have already laid out your options. No one said you were always going to get your way.

You get your way because you use guns to get it. Then you talk about a free society. Talk about empty blather. Where does 50% plus one give you a moral imperative to remove my liberty and property? God? Government? "Society"? Based on what do you think you have a right to vote and give my money to someone else that I earned and they didn't. Sorry Kaz, but Steve here gives me a majority. Steve and I decided to take this much of your property. Sucks to be you.

That is what you are advocating. There is nothing moral or right about it. Think about what you said. I am free to convince others that the property I earned is mine. Why should I have to convince anyone to respect that?

No, you talk about a free society. I talk about the law. This nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution. I don't trust anything because someone calls it "moral". The laws are created under the framework of the Constitution. That is how this nation operates and it is not going to change because some people don't think it's working out the way they want.

Can the government take your property? You betcha and it has had that ability since the first day of the republic. Can it take your liberty if it doesn't approve of your actions? Absolutely. Can it decide to take your money and spend it on things you don't approve of. You can bet your life on it. Just like every other government on the planet.

So I repeat.... work to change the law, accept it, disobey and take the consequences or leave. Pick one and take some responsibility for yourself. And while you think your freedom is so trodden upon you might consider that for most of the people on this planet, options one and four don't exist.

 

[bripat9643]

Forcing people to provide goods and services to others w/o compensation is involuntary servitude.
How can state-enforces involuntary servitude in a free country?.

Through law. I would think that is obvious.

You do understand that state-enforced involuntery servitude applied across an entire csocirty and freedom are, well, opposites.
Right?

No. But you can think that if you like. If I walk into a store and grab a loaf of bread I don't think my freedom is curtailed because I have hand over money for it. That is just the cost of bread.

No one forces you to take the bread. It doesn't belong to you. On the other hand, government forces you to pay for services you haven't asked for. The federal government doesn't own the property I live on, nor the store where I buy bread, so where did it get the right to take money from me by force?

The law.

Government makes the law, so you haven't answered the question.

 

[M14 Shooter]

People paying for common services, police, military, civilian and civil courts, roads, that sort of thing doesn't contradict living in a free society. Government doing things like redistributing money and taxing some citizens more than others is completely inconsistent with a free society, that's just getting free stuff

You are free to hold that opinion. You are free to try to get others to agree and get the laws changed. Good luck with that. In the meantime, I have already laid out your options. No one said you were always going to get your way.

You get your way because you use guns to get it. Then you talk about a free society. Talk about empty blather. Where does 50% plus one give you a moral imperative to remove my liberty and property? God? Government? "Society"? Based on what do you think you have a right to vote and give my money to someone else that I earned and they didn't. Sorry Kaz, but Steve here gives me a majority. Steve and I decided to take this much of your property. Sucks to be you.

That is what you are advocating. There is nothing moral or right about it. Think about what you said. I am free to convince others that the property I earned is mine. Why should I have to convince anyone to respect that?

No, you talk about a free society. I talk about the law. This nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution.

You do know that the constitution outlaws involuntary servitude, don't you?

 

[PratchettFan]

No one forces you to take the bread. It doesn't belong to you.

You pay for the bread, you get the bread.
You pay for someone else's bread, you get nothing.
When the state forces you to pay for someone else's bread, you are an involuntary servant.

Ok. I'm cool with you being an involuntary servant.

As you apparently hate freedom and liberty, I am not surprised.

If that makes you feel better, be my guest. Now what are you going to do?

Marvel at the stupidity of someone who takes no issue with an involuntary servant of the state.

No, just someone who doesn't bother arguing with absurd comments. But think you've won some great victory if it gives you pleasure. I'm fine with that too.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You pay for the bread, you get the bread.
You pay for someone else's bread, you get nothing.
When the state forces you to pay for someone else's bread, you are an involuntary servant.

Ok. I'm cool with you being an involuntary servant.

As you apparently hate freedom and liberty, I am not surprised.

If that makes you feel better, be my guest. Now what are you going to do?

Marvel at the stupidity of someone who takes no issue with an involuntary servant of the state.

No, just someone who doesn't bother arguing with absurd comments.

I might also add someone who thinks so little of himself that he takes no issue being an involuntary servant of the state.

 

[PratchettFan]

People paying for common services, police, military, civilian and civil courts, roads, that sort of thing doesn't contradict living in a free society. Government doing things like redistributing money and taxing some citizens more than others is completely inconsistent with a free society, that's just getting free stuff

You are free to hold that opinion. You are free to try to get others to agree and get the laws changed. Good luck with that. In the meantime, I have already laid out your options. No one said you were always going to get your way.

You get your way because you use guns to get it. Then you talk about a free society. Talk about empty blather. Where does 50% plus one give you a moral imperative to remove my liberty and property? God? Government? "Society"? Based on what do you think you have a right to vote and give my money to someone else that I earned and they didn't. Sorry Kaz, but Steve here gives me a majority. Steve and I decided to take this much of your property. Sucks to be you.

That is what you are advocating. There is nothing moral or right about it. Think about what you said. I am free to convince others that the property I earned is mine. Why should I have to convince anyone to respect that?

No, you talk about a free society. I talk about the law. This nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution.

You do know that the constitution outlaws involuntary servitude, don't you?

Yep. But it doesn't outlaw your ability to think you're a victim and I wouldn't dream of taking that away from you. You enjoy it so.

 

[PratchettFan]

Through law. I would think that is obvious.

You do understand that state-enforced involuntery servitude applied across an entire csocirty and freedom are, well, opposites.
Right?

No. But you can think that if you like. If I walk into a store and grab a loaf of bread I don't think my freedom is curtailed because I have hand over money for it. That is just the cost of bread.

No one forces you to take the bread. It doesn't belong to you. On the other hand, government forces you to pay for services you haven't asked for. The federal government doesn't own the property I live on, nor the store where I buy bread, so where did it get the right to take money from me by force?

The law.

Government makes the law, so you haven't answered the question.

Yes, I have. But let me try to explain it to you.

The government is created under the framework of the Constitution. The Constitution is law. Each of the various states likewise have their own constitutions under which they operate, and each of those are law as well. These laws provide the authority to the various governments to create more law.

I really can't put it much simpler than that. If you think that is just not acceptable to you, you can choose to leave. If you choose to stay, that is your choice as well and you are responsible for the choices you make. It doesn't matter to me which. The bottom line is that no matter how much you don't like it, society is not going to change because you don't think it's fair. So maybe what you might try instead is to grow up.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You do know that the constitution outlaws involuntary servitude, don't you?

Yep.

And so, if you talk about the law and if you believe that this nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution, why do yo not oppose state-enforced involuntary servitude?

 

[PratchettFan]

Ok. I'm cool with you being an involuntary servant.

As you apparently hate freedom and liberty, I am not surprised.

If that makes you feel better, be my guest. Now what are you going to do?

Marvel at the stupidity of someone who takes no issue with an involuntary servant of the state.

No, just someone who doesn't bother arguing with absurd comments.

I might also add someone who thinks so little of himself that he takes no issue being an involuntary servant of the state.

I don't think of myself as a victim, so there is no issue to take.

 

[PratchettFan]

You do know that the constitution outlaws involuntary servitude, don't you?

Yep.

And so, if you talk about the law and if you believe that this nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution, why do yo not oppose state-enforced involuntary servitude?

Because I don't see it as involuntary servitude, as you well know. But apparently you do. You think you are a slave. So what are you doing about it? My excuse is I think your assertion is just flat silly. What is your excuse?

 

[M14 Shooter]

As you apparently hate freedom and liberty, I am not surprised.

If that makes you feel better, be my guest. Now what are you going to do?

Marvel at the stupidity of someone who takes no issue with an involuntary servant of the state.

No, just someone who doesn't bother arguing with absurd comments.

I might also add someone who thinks so little of himself that he takes no issue being an involuntary servant of the state.

I don't think of myself as a victim, so there is no issue to take.

I did not say that you think of yourself as a victim
I -did- say you think so little of yourself and possess sufficient stupidity that you takes no issue being an involuntary servant of the state.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You do know that the constitution outlaws involuntary servitude, don't you?

Yep.

And so, if you talk about the law and if you believe that this nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution, why do yo not oppose state-enforced involuntary servitude?

Because I don't see it as involuntary servitude...

That only means you choose to be wrong.

 

[PratchettFan]

You do know that the constitution outlaws involuntary servitude, don't you?

Yep.

And so, if you talk about the law and if you believe that this nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution, why do yo not oppose state-enforced involuntary servitude?

Because I don't see it as involuntary servitude...

That only means you choose to be wrong.

I see you cut off the rest of my post. Don't want to tackle that it seems. Not surprising. Let me offer to you what I suggested to Bripat. Grow up.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You do know that the constitution outlaws involuntary servitude, don't you?

Yep.

And so, if you talk about the law and if you believe that this nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution, why do yo not oppose state-enforced involuntary servitude?

Because I don't see it as involuntary servitude...

That only means you choose to be wrong.

I see you cut off the rest of my post

I don't bother myself with meaningless baiting.
You choosing to not see yourself as servant of the state in no way means you aren't, as the state, inarguably, forces you to provide goods and services to others without compensation. You can justify it however you want, but that fact remains.

.

 

[kaz]

People paying for common services, police, military, civilian and civil courts, roads, that sort of thing doesn't contradict living in a free society. Government doing things like redistributing money and taxing some citizens more than others is completely inconsistent with a free society, that's just getting free stuff

You are free to hold that opinion. You are free to try to get others to agree and get the laws changed. Good luck with that. In the meantime, I have already laid out your options. No one said you were always going to get your way.

You get your way because you use guns to get it. Then you talk about a free society. Talk about empty blather. Where does 50% plus one give you a moral imperative to remove my liberty and property? God? Government? "Society"? Based on what do you think you have a right to vote and give my money to someone else that I earned and they didn't. Sorry Kaz, but Steve here gives me a majority. Steve and I decided to take this much of your property. Sucks to be you.

That is what you are advocating. There is nothing moral or right about it. Think about what you said. I am free to convince others that the property I earned is mine. Why should I have to convince anyone to respect that?

No, you talk about a free society. I talk about the law. This nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution. I don't trust anything because someone calls it "moral". The laws are created under the framework of the Constitution. That is how this nation operates and it is not going to change because some people don't think it's working out the way they want.

Can the government take your property? You betcha and it has had that ability since the first day of the republic. Can it take your liberty if it doesn't approve of your actions? Absolutely. Can it decide to take your money and spend it on things you don't approve of. You can bet your life on it. Just like every other government on the planet.

So I repeat.... work to change the law, accept it, disobey and take the consequences or leave. Pick one and take some responsibility for yourself. And while you think your freedom is so trodden upon you might consider that for most of the people on this planet, options one and four don't exist.

Interesting how you started with "no" then agreed with everything I said. You think you and Steve can confiscate my shit with force because you outvoted me

 

[kaz]

People paying for common services, police, military, civilian and civil courts, roads, that sort of thing doesn't contradict living in a free society. Government doing things like redistributing money and taxing some citizens more than others is completely inconsistent with a free society, that's just getting free stuff

You are free to hold that opinion. You are free to try to get others to agree and get the laws changed. Good luck with that. In the meantime, I have already laid out your options. No one said you were always going to get your way.

You get your way because you use guns to get it. Then you talk about a free society. Talk about empty blather. Where does 50% plus one give you a moral imperative to remove my liberty and property? God? Government? "Society"? Based on what do you think you have a right to vote and give my money to someone else that I earned and they didn't. Sorry Kaz, but Steve here gives me a majority. Steve and I decided to take this much of your property. Sucks to be you.

That is what you are advocating. There is nothing moral or right about it. Think about what you said. I am free to convince others that the property I earned is mine. Why should I have to convince anyone to respect that?

No, you talk about a free society. I talk about the law. This nation is based upon the law, starting with the Constitution.

You do know that the constitution outlaws involuntary servitude, don't you?

Yep. But it doesn't outlaw your ability to think you're a victim and I wouldn't dream of taking that away from you. You enjoy it so.

Yes, when you commit armed robbery, the people you stole from are your victims

 

[Dot Com]

its a theory that college Repubs are exposed to in college, sort of like hazing, that MOST discard after becoming adults.

Yes... because maximizing autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgement is a silly, worthless proposition.
:roll:

start your own country then rocket scientist guy

Why do you disagree with maximizing autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgement?

because it results in this clinger:

 

[M14 Shooter]

its a theory that college Repubs are exposed to in college, sort of like hazing, that MOST discard after becoming adults.

Yes... because maximizing autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgement is a silly, worthless proposition.
:roll:

start your own country then rocket scientist guy

Why do you disagree with maximizing autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgement?

because it results in this clinger:

Sorry. Can't YouTube. Please try again.