Kansas event underlines the need for more guns

[Markle]

Two dead and 15 injured after shooter opens fire outside Kansas bar | Metro News

At least two people have died after a gunman opened fire while punters were queuing up outside a bar in Kansas City, Missouri. At least a further 15 have been injured following the incident and three are understood to be in a critical condition, said police. The attack took place at around 11.30pm on Sunday outside 9ine Ultra Lounge, near East US Highway 40. A police spokesman said responding officers found ‘a chaotic scene’ and had to call in back-up from across the city. When they arrived at the scene, two people were found dead, including a woman in the bar car park.

So absolutely no need for any gun control whatsoever.

So we have thugs, a bit or a lot boozed up or stoned carrying guns. What law would have prevented them from carrying guns? Were the shooters in compliance with the existing laws?

City leaders could revoke KC nightclub’s liquor license after deadly shooting, history of problems
POSTED 6:53 PM, JANUARY 20, 2020, BY SHANNON O'BRIEN
[...]
The owner of 9ine Ultra Lounge is former Chiefs player Alphonso Hodge, so the party at his bar Sunday night was a big one. The club was packed with hundreds of people and there was a line to get in. But gunshots interrupted Kansas City's celebration.

"Something happened last night that marred what was an exciting night, euphoric night for the people of Kansas City," Mayor Quinton Lucas said.

Police said a disturbance in the line to get in ended in gunfire. At least 15 people were injured, and one woman and the suspected shooter died.

A security guard inside the club told police he heard a commotion, went outside and confronted and killed the shooter.

"Multiple firearms were involved, so we think the security guard's actions definitely saved lives," KCPD Chief Rick Smith said.

One of the guns found had a high-capacity magazine, so this tragic situation could have been worse.

City leaders could revoke KC nightclub’s liquor license after deadly shooting, history of problems

###

Violent crime in London 2010-2019
Published by Daniel Clark, Aug 9, 2019
There were over 215.7 thousand violent crime offences recorded by the Metropolitan Police in London in 2018/19 an increase of approximately 13.8 thousand compared with the previous year. From a low of just 126.4 thousand violent crimes in 2012/13, violent crime rose in every subsequent year to reach the current levels seen in 2018/19.

Violent crime in London 2019 Statistic | Statista

 

[Markle]

no such thing as an illegal gun,,,

Actually, as you know, there are illegal guns. If you own a sawed-off shotgun, that's an illegal gun, serial numbers on any gun ground off or obliterated so as to be illegible, illegal gun. A machine gun manufactured after May 19, 1986, illegal. Any semi-automatic weapon converted to function as an automatic, illegal.

But I get your point!

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Actually, as you know, there are illegal guns. If you own a sawed-off shotgun, that's an illegal gun, serial numbers on any gun ground off or obliterated so as to be illegible, illegal gun. A machine gun manufactured after May 19, 1986, illegal. Any semi-automatic weapon converted to function as an automatic, illegal.

No, they are not illegal.

The Second Amendment still takes precedence over any lesser law. Any act of government which violates it is an illegal act. This includes enacting, upholding, or enforcing any law which infringes the people's right to keep and bear arms, including those laws which restrict the keeping and bearing of machine guns and sawed-off shotguns.

 

[Markle]

Around 1950, a little under 50% of households owned a gun. Now it is down to 30-some percent of households having a gun. So maybe less owners is helping. Let's keep that going in a BIG way.

I'm curious, how did they arrive at those figures which, for the sake of argument, we'll say are accurate.

Compared to 1950, if you owned say five guns, shotgun, rifle, and three handguns. Given today's hostile atmosphere, would you be more likely to answer a telephone survey truthfully in 1950 or today in 2020?

 

[Markle]

Crime has gone down for specific reasons, including that anti-crime bill passed during the Clinton years. There are also improved trauma techniques that save lives, reducing homicides to injuries. It is not because there are more GUNS lying around. That is totally stupid.

Your desperation is reaching epic proportions. Do you think or re-read your posts before hitting the "POST REPLY" button?

You do realize that a serious felony has been committed if someone is SHOT? They don't say no harm "DEATH" no foul. It doesn't take a murder!

Are you saying there is no correlation between the decline in violent crime, including murder, with the increase in the number of guns in America? You'd be one of the few but hey, Take "A Path Less Traveled"!

 

[Markle]

Crime has gone down for specific reasons, including that anti-crime bill passed during the Clinton years.

I take it that you realize that legislation has been blamed for the drastic increase in blacks serving long sentences in prison. Drug crimes with drugs preferred by blacks received far longer mandatory prison sentences than whites received for dealing in drugs preferred by whites.

Blacks, for many years, have rightfully decried the difference but no president changed it until President Donald Trump signed the criminal justice overhaul. Why wasn't it done by failed former President Barack Hussein Obama?

"Trump signs criminal justice overhaul President Trump signed a sweeping criminal justice overhaul on Friday. The new law, which had rare bipartisan support, shortens some drug sentences while expanding rehabilitation programs for prisoners. Rosa Concha knows about second chances."

That must be because President Obama is NOT a racist and President Trump IS a racist! Right?

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Two dead and 15 injured after shooter opens fire outside Kansas bar | Metro News

At least two people have died after a gunman opened fire while punters were queuing up outside a bar in Kansas City, Missouri. At least a further 15 have been injured following the incident and three are understood to be in a critical condition, said police. The attack took place at around 11.30pm on Sunday outside 9ine Ultra Lounge, near East US Highway 40. A police spokesman said responding officers found ‘a chaotic scene’ and had to call in back-up from across the city. When they arrived at the scene, two people were found dead, including a woman in the bar car park.

So absolutely no need for any gun control whatsoever.

We have the right to murder people here.

Show me a law stating we have a right to murder people.

The abortion laws in this country.

 

[toobfreak]

Modern British cretins like Tainted Tommy, who still think they can tell us how to run our country, lead me to think that perhaps they are way overdue for another serious ass-kicking.

Don't worry, they are already getting it. They are getting their asses kicked by all the murder now being done, now with knives after they thought taking guns would solve a thing. By all of the towel-heads they have let take over their country. And best of all, by their own stupidity, after passing Brexit and years later still not having the gumption to enact it! Even finally getting a bold leader willing to show them the way, they tremble in fear, unable to take the needed steps.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Two dead and 15 injured after shooter opens fire outside Kansas bar | Metro News

At least two people have died after a gunman opened fire while punters were queuing up outside a bar in Kansas City, Missouri. At least a further 15 have been injured following the incident and three are understood to be in a critical condition, said police. The attack took place at around 11.30pm on Sunday outside 9ine Ultra Lounge, near East US Highway 40. A police spokesman said responding officers found ‘a chaotic scene’ and had to call in back-up from across the city. When they arrived at the scene, two people were found dead, including a woman in the bar car park.

So absolutely no need for any gun control whatsoever.

We have the right to murder people here.

Show me a law stating we have a right to murder people.

Because of our Holy Right to own a gun, as many as we want, as big and fast as we want, we do not accept any personal responsibility for the damage that our overabundance of easily procurred weapons has done in this country. We have young people shooting each other in the streets, and husbands shooting wives, and people who have gone off the deep end firing away at total strangers at bars, concerts, etc. And every single person who opposes responsible regulation on those guns due to the Holy Second Amendment is enabling mindless needless murders. 10,000 HOMICIDES a year. Not accidents, not suicides. 10,000 people killed by another with a GUN. Only 7% of homicides are caused by teenagers so don't try giving me that "It's all the gangs' fault," either.
If anything else were causing 10,000 deaths a year, whether it was a defective appliance or a disease, the government would be all over it. Not guns though, because of the Holy Right.
Well, fuck that.

Constitutional right, there I fixed your typo.

 

[Markle]

Actually, as you know, there are illegal guns. If you own a sawed-off shotgun, that's an illegal gun, serial numbers on any gun ground off or obliterated so as to be illegible, illegal gun. A machine gun manufactured after May 19, 1986, illegal. Any semi-automatic weapon converted to function as an automatic, illegal.

No, they are not illegal.

The Second Amendment still takes precedence over any lesser law. Any act of government which violates it is an illegal act. This includes enacting, upholding, or enforcing any law which infringes the people's right to keep and bear arms, including those laws which restrict the keeping and bearing of machine guns and sawed-off shotguns.

Don't be silly. According to the SCOTUS, reasonable restrictions can be placed on the Second Amendment. It is illegal to possess any machine gun manufactured after May 19, 1986. "Under the National Firearms Act (NFA), it is illegal for a private citizen to possess a sawed-off modern smokeless powder shotgun (a shotgun with a barrel length shorter than 18 inches (46 cm)"

 

[Markle]

Every shooter was once a law abiding gun owner. I say we stop the problem at the source.

 

[Markle]

Nope. Every gun owner is on temper-tantrum, one drink, one bad day or bad decision, from murder.

Why doesn't that happen with legal gun owners then as often as illegal gun owners?

According to your thinking, every car, knife, hammer, ice pick, chainsaw, motorcycle owner is on temper-tantrum (whatever that means) one drink, one bad day or bad decision, from murder.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Freedom comes with its price. You might know that if you were actually ever free. Now what we need is freedom from the progressive policies that are driving people to do violence. Tell us, oh, Kabookie, after you take all our guns away and everyone switches over to using something else to kill, what then? Another draconian take away of our freedoms? I could kill you with a pencil! Hell, probably my bare hands.

The SAD TRUTH is that had one of the dead had a gun to defend themselves, there probably would have been a lot less killing. Serial killings ALWAYS happen in a place where everyone is disarmed. Don't believe me? Show me the last time a serial killer ever attacked a police station!

How about the freedom to go have a beer without being in mortal.danger?

Then stop electing democrats who put in democrat party judges and prosecutors who keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...

How about we start there, you doofus.

How about we just round up anyone with a gun and imprison them?

Because there are more law abiding gun owners than there are not, I know Leftists are FANATICAL about taking guns off LAW ABIDING gun owners, I mean there's some ulterior motive for that, perhaps it has to do with Bernie Sanders and his wanting to put ALL Trump supporters into Gulags or whatever, difficult to do IF ALL of them are armed etc a lot easier IF they were ALL unarmed.

Every shooter was once a law abiding gun owner. I say we stop the problem at the source.

You mean at the Stalinist democrat Gulag? No thanks

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Then stop electing democrats who put in democrat party judges and prosecutors who keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...

How about we start there, you doofus.

How about we just round up anyone with a gun and imprison them?

Because there are more law abiding gun owners than there are not, I know Leftists are FANATICAL about taking guns off LAW ABIDING gun owners, I mean there's some ulterior motive for that, perhaps it has to do with Bernie Sanders and his wanting to put ALL Trump supporters into Gulags or whatever, difficult to do IF ALL of them are armed etc a lot easier IF they were ALL unarmed.

Every shooter was once a law abiding gun owner. I say we stop the problem at the source.

No. TENS of MILLIONS of law abiding gun owners vs minimal amount of criminals.

Nope. Every gun owner is on temper-tantrum, one drink, one bad day or bad decision, from murder.

Every Stalinist democrat is an unarmed citizenry away from mass murder

 

[Papageorgio]

Freedom comes with its price. You might know that if you were actually ever free. Now what we need is freedom from the progressive policies that are driving people to do violence. Tell us, oh, Kabookie, after you take all our guns away and everyone switches over to using something else to kill, what then? Another draconian take away of our freedoms? I could kill you with a pencil! Hell, probably my bare hands.

The SAD TRUTH is that had one of the dead had a gun to defend themselves, there probably would have been a lot less killing. Serial killings ALWAYS happen in a place where everyone is disarmed. Don't believe me? Show me the last time a serial killer ever attacked a police station!

How about the freedom to go have a beer without being in mortal.danger?

Then stop electing democrats who put in democrat party judges and prosecutors who keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...

How about we start there, you doofus.

How about we just round up anyone with a gun and imprison them?

Because there are more law abiding gun owners than there are not, I know Leftists are FANATICAL about taking guns off LAW ABIDING gun owners, I mean there's some ulterior motive for that, perhaps it has to do with Bernie Sanders and his wanting to put ALL Trump supporters into Gulags or whatever, difficult to do IF ALL of them are armed etc a lot easier IF they were ALL unarmed.

Every shooter was once a law abiding gun owner. I say we stop the problem at the source.

Every drunk driver was at one time sober, let’s stop the problem at its source.

Every criminal wasn’t one time an honest citizen, let’s stop the problem at its source.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Two dead and 15 injured after shooter opens fire outside Kansas bar | Metro News

At least two people have died after a gunman opened fire while punters were queuing up outside a bar in Kansas City, Missouri. At least a further 15 have been injured following the incident and three are understood to be in a critical condition, said police. The attack took place at around 11.30pm on Sunday outside 9ine Ultra Lounge, near East US Highway 40. A police spokesman said responding officers found ‘a chaotic scene’ and had to call in back-up from across the city. When they arrived at the scene, two people were found dead, including a woman in the bar car park.

So absolutely no need for any gun control whatsoever.

Progressive Founding Father Uncle Joe says, "Bravo, Tommy! Armed people won't be matched off to the Gulag!"

 

[2aguy]

Freedom comes with its price. You might know that if you were actually ever free. Now what we need is freedom from the progressive policies that are driving people to do violence. Tell us, oh, Kabookie, after you take all our guns away and everyone switches over to using something else to kill, what then? Another draconian take away of our freedoms? I could kill you with a pencil! Hell, probably my bare hands.

The SAD TRUTH is that had one of the dead had a gun to defend themselves, there probably would have been a lot less killing. Serial killings ALWAYS happen in a place where everyone is disarmed. Don't believe me? Show me the last time a serial killer ever attacked a police station!

How about the freedom to go have a beer without being in mortal.danger?

Then stop electing democrats who put in democrat party judges and prosecutors who keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...

How about we start there, you doofus.

How about we just round up anyone with a gun and imprison them?

Because there are more law abiding gun owners than there are not, I know Leftists are FANATICAL about taking guns off LAW ABIDING gun owners, I mean there's some ulterior motive for that, perhaps it has to do with Bernie Sanders and his wanting to put ALL Trump supporters into Gulags or whatever, difficult to do IF ALL of them are armed etc a lot easier IF they were ALL unarmed.

Every shooter was once a law abiding gun owner. I say we stop the problem at the source.

Wrong...as you have been shown over and over again....

The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

 

[2aguy]

Then stop electing democrats who put in democrat party judges and prosecutors who keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...

How about we start there, you doofus.

How about we just round up anyone with a gun and imprison them?

Because there are more law abiding gun owners than there are not, I know Leftists are FANATICAL about taking guns off LAW ABIDING gun owners, I mean there's some ulterior motive for that, perhaps it has to do with Bernie Sanders and his wanting to put ALL Trump supporters into Gulags or whatever, difficult to do IF ALL of them are armed etc a lot easier IF they were ALL unarmed.

Every shooter was once a law abiding gun owner. I say we stop the problem at the source.

No. TENS of MILLIONS of law abiding gun owners vs minimal amount of criminals.

Nope. Every gun owner is on temper-tantrum, one drink, one bad day or bad decision, from murder.

Wrong.....

The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

 

[OldLady]

Because of our Holy Right to own a gun, as many as we want, as big and fast as we want, we do not accept any personal responsibility for the damage that our overabundance of easily procurred weapons has done in this country. We have young people shooting each other in the streets, and husbands shooting wives, and people who have gone off the deep end firing away at total strangers at bars, concerts, etc. And every single person who opposes responsible regulation on those guns due to the Holy Second Amendment is enabling mindless needless murders. 10,000 HOMICIDES a year. Not accidents, not suicides. 10,000 people killed by another with a GUN. Only 7% of homicides are caused by teenagers so don't try giving me that "It's all the gangs' fault," either.
If anything else were causing 10,000 deaths a year, whether it was a defective appliance or a disease, the government would be all over it. Not guns though, because of the Holy Right.
Well, fuck that.

And you know the majority of those shootings are done by people who have already been arrested repeatedly for gun crimes....and let go by democrat party judges, politicians and prosecutors......

As more Americans own guns, our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%.....

So nothing you posted is true or accurate.........

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives...according to the Centers for Disease control....lives saved from rape, robbery and murder........

If you asshats would stop electing democrats, we wouldn't have this gun crime......those criminals would be in jail and prison, not repeatedly released.

Around 1950, a little under 50% of households owned a gun. Now it is down to 30-some percent of households having a gun. So maybe less owners is helping. Let's keep that going in a BIG way.

Actually crime has gone down as more own guns legally.

Crime has gone down for specific reasons, including that anti-crime bill passed during the Clinton years. There are also improved trauma techniques that save lives, reducing homicides to injuries. It is not because there are more GUNS lying around. That is totally stupid.

Sorry......you don't get to dodge the fact.....

You guys claim that more guns create more gun murder and more gun crime....that is what you claim, that is the reason you say we need to ban guns.....

The truth is.....as more Americans own more guns, and carry them.....gun crime went down...showing that normal people who own guns does not increase the gun crime rate....at all....

In the U.S. as more Americans not only own guns, but now carry them for self defense, our gun murder rate went down 49%...

With what you believe....how do you explain that?

In the U.S. as more Americans not only own but now carry guns our gun crime rate went down 75%....

With what you believe,.....how do you explain that?

In the U.S. as more Americans not only own guns but carry them for self defense, our violent crime rate went down 72%.....

With what you believe, how do you explain that?

Nothing you believe about guns is supported by actual facts, the truth, or reality on the ground......how do you justify your believes beyond simply not liking guns?

------
Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.

guess what happened...
mass shootings skyrocketed.

 

[depotoo]

And you know the majority of those shootings are done by people who have already been arrested repeatedly for gun crimes....and let go by democrat party judges, politicians and prosecutors......

As more Americans own guns, our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%.....

So nothing you posted is true or accurate.........

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives...according to the Centers for Disease control....lives saved from rape, robbery and murder........

If you asshats would stop electing democrats, we wouldn't have this gun crime......those criminals would be in jail and prison, not repeatedly released.

Around 1950, a little under 50% of households owned a gun. Now it is down to 30-some percent of households having a gun. So maybe less owners is helping. Let's keep that going in a BIG way.

Actually crime has gone down as more own guns legally.

Crime has gone down for specific reasons, including that anti-crime bill passed during the Clinton years. There are also improved trauma techniques that save lives, reducing homicides to injuries. It is not because there are more GUNS lying around. That is totally stupid.

Sorry......you don't get to dodge the fact.....

You guys claim that more guns create more gun murder and more gun crime....that is what you claim, that is the reason you say we need to ban guns.....

The truth is.....as more Americans own more guns, and carry them.....gun crime went down...showing that normal people who own guns does not increase the gun crime rate....at all....

In the U.S. as more Americans not only own guns, but now carry them for self defense, our gun murder rate went down 49%...

With what you believe....how do you explain that?

In the U.S. as more Americans not only own but now carry guns our gun crime rate went down 75%....

With what you believe,.....how do you explain that?

In the U.S. as more Americans not only own guns but carry them for self defense, our violent crime rate went down 72%.....

With what you believe, how do you explain that?

Nothing you believe about guns is supported by actual facts, the truth, or reality on the ground......how do you justify your believes beyond simply not liking guns?

------
Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.

guess what happened...
mass shootings skyrocketed.

How many mass shootings were in gun free zones? And don’t forget the last administration did change the definition of a mass shooting to 3 or more vs previously being 5 or more, then changed it back to 4 killed or more in 2015. Yet Nancy Pelosi and others Dems continue to define a mass shooting as 3 or more shot, not killed, to help push their agenda. This allows them to scream mass shootings are up tremendously under their terms, even though they actually are not. Most left wing media call anything with 3 or more injured as a mass shooting, as well as gang killings etc., which traditionally were never included in that term.