Keep that Atheism to Yourself

[JoeB131]

You've already used that bumper sticker. Here's one. If Atheism isn't a religion, then a panda is not a mammal. We can play the non sequitur game all day.

You, however, are a theocrat wannabe and you most definitely treat Atheism as a religion.

Uh, no, you really can't. Panda's are obviously mammals.

Atheists have no God, no scripture, no dogma, no "sin". In fact, religionists have been trying to play the "Atheism is a religion" game for decades and the courts have rejected it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

SKULL PILOT SAID:

“I never thought of my football coach as a governmental authority figure.”

Perhaps not, but as a government employee he is nonetheless subject to Establishment Clause jurisprudence.

If he is not requiring anyone to pray then why can't he pray?
If people choose to join him why can't they?

 

[Skull Pilot]

You could have stood with the team and not recited the prayer. that's what i did. I never felt compelled to believe or say a prayer. Why would anyone?

I abstained from the pledge of allegiance as well. There were never any reprisals or unfavorable consequences.

Oh yes, that's what I did. Nonetheless, it is inappropriate for the coach - a governmental authority figure - to be leading a prayer for students. It's no different than a teacher leader a prayer in a classroom. I don't even think it appropriate for the coach to join in, but that is debatable.

I get what you are saying. I think far too much is made of this. I have no problem with displays in the park, 10 commandments in the courtroom, people handing out pamphlets on street corners. In a free society you are going to be exposed to things you don't agree with and the best thing to do is grow a skin.

I never thought of my football coach as a governmental authority figure.
I hate to think that as a teenagers we might have been more enlightened than people are today when it comes to tolerating the beliefs of others.

Nonetheless, that is what the coach is. A paid representative of the government no different than any other teacher. And when my coach essentially ordered me to participate in rituals I did not believe in, that was not tolerating the beliefs of others.

Ordered you?

I do not believe that. If he wanted to pray in proximity to you that is not ordering you. If others wanted to join him that is not ordering you.

You had every right not to recite a prayer.

The choice was very clear. Participate in the ritual or be gone. I did not have a choice if I wanted to play. How is that not an order?

Really?

He said pray or you're off the team?

I doubt that.

 

[PratchettFan]

What offends me is that they are constantly trying to shove their shit down our throats.

Today it's reciting a prayer on my tax dime, tomorrow it's making me say that fucking prayer.

You gotta stop these fuckers in their tracks, don't give them an inch.

What offends me is people who think they are the only one's who deserve the right to express themselves because they are "offended". But you go right ahead, because even theocrats have the right to push their agenda. Don't you just love freedom?

Guy, if Atheism is a religion, Off is a TV channel.

You've already used that bumper sticker. Here's one. If Atheism isn't a religion, then a panda is not a mammal. We can play the non sequitur game all day.

You, however, are a theocrat wannabe and you most definitely treat Atheism as a religion.

So the absence of heat (cold) is heat? The absence of light (dark) is light?

Ahh... more unsupported bumper sticker arguments. You see, in order for these little quips to have any relevancy to the discussion you first have to accept the claim, the unsupported and repeatedly disproven claim, that the individual does have an absence of belief. It has to be accepted on faith and never questioned. Which, of course, is the definition of dogma.

It is possible there are Atheists out there who actually do lack beliefs, but I've never met one and there are certainly none here. There are plenty who deny they have beliefs, but that is not the same thing as not having them. Mostly, it just means they can't differentiate between belief and knowledge.

 

[martybegan]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

BINGO.

So, keep your religion out of our faces and all will be well.

The 1st amendment does not require religion to be hidden in the closet.

Nor atheism. But believers sure are scared by us, because we are the ones who make sense.

No, its because you use the courts to attempt to suppress expressions of theism, not co-exist with it.

Basically you are assholes.

 

[NoNukes]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

BINGO.

So, keep your religion out of our faces and all will be well.

The 1st amendment does not require religion to be hidden in the closet.

Nor atheism. But believers sure are scared by us, because we are the ones who make sense.

No, its because you use the courts to attempt to suppress expressions of theism, not co-exist with it.

Basically you are assholes.

I have never done this, so I guess that you are the the asshole.

 

[PratchettFan]

Oh yes, that's what I did. Nonetheless, it is inappropriate for the coach - a governmental authority figure - to be leading a prayer for students. It's no different than a teacher leader a prayer in a classroom. I don't even think it appropriate for the coach to join in, but that is debatable.

I get what you are saying. I think far too much is made of this. I have no problem with displays in the park, 10 commandments in the courtroom, people handing out pamphlets on street corners. In a free society you are going to be exposed to things you don't agree with and the best thing to do is grow a skin.

I never thought of my football coach as a governmental authority figure.
I hate to think that as a teenagers we might have been more enlightened than people are today when it comes to tolerating the beliefs of others.

Nonetheless, that is what the coach is. A paid representative of the government no different than any other teacher. And when my coach essentially ordered me to participate in rituals I did not believe in, that was not tolerating the beliefs of others.

Ordered you?

I do not believe that. If he wanted to pray in proximity to you that is not ordering you. If others wanted to join him that is not ordering you.

You had every right not to recite a prayer.

The choice was very clear. Participate in the ritual or be gone. I did not have a choice if I wanted to play. How is that not an order?

Really?

He said pray or you're off the team?

I doubt that.

Your doubt it noted, but irrelevant. The coach is no different than a teacher leading a class. It is inappropriate for him to lead a prayer.

 

[martybegan]

BINGO.

So, keep your religion out of our faces and all will be well.

The 1st amendment does not require religion to be hidden in the closet.

Nor atheism. But believers sure are scared by us, because we are the ones who make sense.

No, its because you use the courts to attempt to suppress expressions of theism, not co-exist with it.

Basically you are assholes.

I have never done this, so I guess that you are the the asshole.

And I have never advocated for mandatory teacher led prayer in schools, but your side seems fine lumping me in with those who do.

 

[PratchettFan]

You've already used that bumper sticker. Here's one. If Atheism isn't a religion, then a panda is not a mammal. We can play the non sequitur game all day.

You, however, are a theocrat wannabe and you most definitely treat Atheism as a religion.

Uh, no, you really can't. Panda's are obviously mammals.

Atheists have no God, no scripture, no dogma, no "sin". In fact, religionists have been trying to play the "Atheism is a religion" game for decades and the courts have rejected it.

I'm sure you believe that with all your heart.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I never thought of my football coach as a governmental authority figure.
I hate to think that as a teenagers we might have been more enlightened than people are today when it comes to tolerating the beliefs of others.

Nonetheless, that is what the coach is. A paid representative of the government no different than any other teacher. And when my coach essentially ordered me to participate in rituals I did not believe in, that was not tolerating the beliefs of others.

Ordered you?

I do not believe that. If he wanted to pray in proximity to you that is not ordering you. If others wanted to join him that is not ordering you.

You had every right not to recite a prayer.

The choice was very clear. Participate in the ritual or be gone. I did not have a choice if I wanted to play. How is that not an order?

Really?

He said pray or you're off the team?

I doubt that.

Your doubt it noted, but irrelevant. The coach is no different than a teacher leading a class. It is inappropriate for him to lead a prayer.

We disagree.

What you call leading I call an individual act with people voluntarily joining or not.

When you boil it down that defines every social interaction.

 

[NoNukes]

So, keep your religion out of our faces and all will be well.

The 1st amendment does not require religion to be hidden in the closet.

Nor atheism. But believers sure are scared by us, because we are the ones who make sense.

No, its because you use the courts to attempt to suppress expressions of theism, not co-exist with it.

Basically you are assholes.

I have never done this, so I guess that you are the the asshole.

And I have never advocated for mandatory teacher led prayer in schools, but your side seems fine lumping me in with those who do.

Who on 'my side' did that? All atheists do not think the same. All liberals do not think the same. All conservatives do not think the same.

 

[PratchettFan]

Nonetheless, that is what the coach is. A paid representative of the government no different than any other teacher. And when my coach essentially ordered me to participate in rituals I did not believe in, that was not tolerating the beliefs of others.

Ordered you?

I do not believe that. If he wanted to pray in proximity to you that is not ordering you. If others wanted to join him that is not ordering you.

You had every right not to recite a prayer.

The choice was very clear. Participate in the ritual or be gone. I did not have a choice if I wanted to play. How is that not an order?

Really?

He said pray or you're off the team?

I doubt that.

Your doubt it noted, but irrelevant. The coach is no different than a teacher leading a class. It is inappropriate for him to lead a prayer.

We disagree.

What you call leading I call an individual act with people voluntarily joining or not.

When you boil it down that defines every social interaction.

No, it really doesn't. If I walk up to you on the street and ask to see identification, that is not the same thing as a police officer walking up and asking. The position of governmental authority changes the dynamic significantly. In a school setting, you have the added dynamic of an adult/child relationship.

 

[martybegan]

The 1st amendment does not require religion to be hidden in the closet.

Nor atheism. But believers sure are scared by us, because we are the ones who make sense.

No, its because you use the courts to attempt to suppress expressions of theism, not co-exist with it.

Basically you are assholes.

I have never done this, so I guess that you are the the asshole.

And I have never advocated for mandatory teacher led prayer in schools, but your side seems fine lumping me in with those who do.

Who on 'my side' did that? All atheists do not think the same. All liberals do not think the same. All conservatives do not think the same.

Yes, but they are represented by both the best and worst of their side.

and your sides worst are a bunch of sniveling wussy assholes.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Ordered you?

I do not believe that. If he wanted to pray in proximity to you that is not ordering you. If others wanted to join him that is not ordering you.

You had every right not to recite a prayer.

The choice was very clear. Participate in the ritual or be gone. I did not have a choice if I wanted to play. How is that not an order?

Really?

He said pray or you're off the team?

I doubt that.

Your doubt it noted, but irrelevant. The coach is no different than a teacher leading a class. It is inappropriate for him to lead a prayer.

We disagree.

What you call leading I call an individual act with people voluntarily joining or not.

When you boil it down that defines every social interaction.

No, it really doesn't. If I walk up to you on the street and ask to see identification, that is not the same thing as a police officer walking up and asking. The position of governmental authority changes the dynamic significantly. In a school setting, you have the added dynamic of an adult/child relationship.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[PratchettFan]

The choice was very clear. Participate in the ritual or be gone. I did not have a choice if I wanted to play. How is that not an order?

Really?

He said pray or you're off the team?

I doubt that.

Your doubt it noted, but irrelevant. The coach is no different than a teacher leading a class. It is inappropriate for him to lead a prayer.

We disagree.

What you call leading I call an individual act with people voluntarily joining or not.

When you boil it down that defines every social interaction.

No, it really doesn't. If I walk up to you on the street and ask to see identification, that is not the same thing as a police officer walking up and asking. The position of governmental authority changes the dynamic significantly. In a school setting, you have the added dynamic of an adult/child relationship.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I can live with that.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The 1st amendment does not require religion to be hidden in the closet.

Nor atheism. But believers sure are scared by us, because we are the ones who make sense.

No, its because you use the courts to attempt to suppress expressions of theism, not co-exist with it.

Basically you are assholes.

I have never done this, so I guess that you are the the asshole.

And I have never advocated for mandatory teacher led prayer in schools, but your side seems fine lumping me in with those who do.

Who on 'my side' did that? All atheists do not think the same. All liberals do not think the same. All conservatives do not think the same.

Are you sure about that?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Nor atheism. But believers sure are scared by us, because we are the ones who make sense.

No, its because you use the courts to attempt to suppress expressions of theism, not co-exist with it.

Basically you are assholes.

I have never done this, so I guess that you are the the asshole.

And I have never advocated for mandatory teacher led prayer in schools, but your side seems fine lumping me in with those who do.

Who on 'my side' did that? All atheists do not think the same. All liberals do not think the same. All conservatives do not think the same.

Are you sure about that?

Of course.

The idea that the "other side" all thinks the same is a just a way of making yourself feel better, not something based in any sort of reality. This applies to both sides.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The thing you ignore while attempting to compare religion to people that know gods and fairies and santa clause are not real is that make believe is stupid...people that don't believe in imaginary entities are smarter than you.

You forget who first theorized that our universe was birthed by the Big Bang, something you alleged "smarter than you" people believe as fact, or for that matter who founded or advanced the sciences of Genetics, Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics and Astronomy:

Georges Lemaitre - Belgian Catholic priest, was the first to introduce the idea that all matter was once condensed into one place before it expanded.

Isaac Newton - Deist, is one of the most well known physicists and mathematicians in human history.

Gottfried Leibniz - Lutheran, invented Calculus.

Galileo Galilei - Believed in the teachings of St. Austin, first theorized that the Earth revolved around the Sun, otherwise known as Heliocentrism.

Max Plank - Lutheran, won the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics, the founder of Quantum Mechanics. Stated religion and science both require a belief in God.

Nikola Tesla - Raised as an Orthodox Christian, his numerous inventions (namely the Tesla Coil) are well known even to this day.

Tycho Brahe - Lutheran, was a pioneer in astronomical instrumentation, his work is considered essential to the discoveries of Johannes Kepler.

Johannes Kepler - Christian, wrote the basic laws of planetary motion. His writing, Harmonice Mundi, mentions Christ at certain points.

Francis Bacon - Christian, Father of impiricism, invented the Scientific method.

René Descartes - Catholic, a pivotal thinker of the Scientific Revolution; invented the Cartesian Coordinate system.

Robert Boyle - Christian theologian, founder of Modern Chemistry.

William Herschel - Lutheran Astronomer, discovered the planet Uranus.

Gregor Mendel - Augustinian Abbot, the Father of Modern Genetics.

George Washington Carver - Christian Scientist, botanist, educator, and inventor. His research on the peanut led to the production of cosmetics, dyes, paints, plastics, gasoline, and nitroglycerin (to name a few).

Max von Laue - Christian Physicist, discovered X-rays.

Werner Heisenberg - Lutheran, a German theoretical physicist, made major contributions to quantum mechanics, nuclear physics, and quantum field theory.

Arthur Leonard Schawlow - Orthodox Protestant who helped invent the laser (or Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation).

Francis Collins - Unitarian, is the current director of the National Institutes of Health, was former director of the National Human Genome Research Institute.

Peter Bussey - Christian, a British Particle physicist and Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Glasgow. He helped discover the Higgs boson, more commonly known as the "God Particle."

Freeman Dyson - Christian who is one of the most influential figures in quantum electrodynamics.


Your bigotry aside, you weren't bothered to research those facts. I feel sorry for you my friend.

 

[koshergrl]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

Er..no they aren't.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No, its because you use the courts to attempt to suppress expressions of theism, not co-exist with it.

Basically you are assholes.

I have never done this, so I guess that you are the the asshole.

And I have never advocated for mandatory teacher led prayer in schools, but your side seems fine lumping me in with those who do.

Who on 'my side' did that? All atheists do not think the same. All liberals do not think the same. All conservatives do not think the same.

Are you sure about that?

Of course.

The idea that the "other side" all thinks the same is a just a way of making yourself feel better, not something based in any sort of reality. This applies to both sides.

It would be great if both sides would drop the stereotypes, but as I see it, one is less willing than the other.