Keep that Atheism to Yourself

[Hollie]

If you believe "magical gardens with talking snakes and global floods" is natural, you need to see a mental health professional and quick.

You are fixated by that image. Perhaps you need to resolve some of those issues. But anyway, thanks again for confirming my point.

Oh don't be silly.

Believe whatever you want but don't pretend its "natural".

Or rational. Or sane.

What it is is a typical reaction by human beings to the unknown. If they don't know the answer, they make one up. You can call it irrational or insane if that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. As I just pointed out, that is the kind of thing human beings do.

Humans have responded to the unknown in many ways. Gawds have been invented to "explain" the unknown and science has been the tool to investigate and explore.

The history of humanity defines that over time, our supernatural, AKA religious perceptions have changed. As our knowledge of the natural world has become more precise, our conceptions of the material world have changed and more closely approximate truth. Humanity has progressed from animism, to paganism, to polytheism, to monotheism, from supernatural theism, to ID'iot creationism, to reinventions of gods who are little more than paper shufflers. We have evolved our conception of existence from a universe of 3 stories (heaven, earth and hell) to a flat earth, to a round earth at the center of the universe, to a small planet circling an ordinary star at a point in space in an ordinary galaxy within an immense universe. Our timelines have expanded from a 6,000 year old earth, to an earth 4-5 billion years old within a universe of 14 billion years with mass extinctions, and human history just a brief moment in all that history. All of the changes in our understanding and conception of the nature of the universe have dictated a change in our conception of the various gods that have been invented to explain the natural world we didn't understand. Fear of the unknown and the invention of gods, demons and supernatural entities in various forms is a constant feature of human history, culture and society as a means to placate our fears. I think it is unlikely that religions, gods and notions of supernatural entities will cease to exist but our history has shown, traditional explanations and concepts of gods and religions are in conflict with our knowledge of the nature of reality.

Again, thank you for confirming my point.

You didn't have a point. I was hoping to help you understand that what was once thought to be supernatural was simply a lack of knowledge.

Not a single discovery in the history of science has ever concluded with the description "this is not understandable and must therefore be supernatural".

 

[rightwinger]

No, the Constitution clearly says- No Establishment of Religion. Period. Keep your Dogma off my lawn.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

So now tell me is a law prohibiting a person from engaging in his religious beliefs on public land tantamount to prohibiting the free exercise thereof?

Atheists are funny to me and I happen to identify myself as one. My main difference with most atheists is that I don't care if other people practice their religion or say a prayer on public property. As long as congress passes no law respecting or prohibiting it.

As an example in high school the coaches liked to say the lord's prayer. I stood with the team but didn't recite the words. No big deal.

How can anyone be offended by that which they do not believe anyway?

How can anyone be offended by that which they do not believe anyway

Would anyone be offended if prior to the game we formed a circle to pronounce that there was no Jesus?

Atheist coach

"Look boys, there ain't no Jesus who is gunna help us win this game. We gotta do it on our own"

No parents would be offended?

I really don't care. No one is forced to agree. I happen to agree that a supreme being if there is one doesn't really give a shit about a high school football game anyway.

There is no right not to be offended is there?

This is what open religious expression means. If a coach can have the team recite the Lords Prayer asking for Jesus' blessing, an atheist coach can also use the occaision to declare that there is no Jesus

Religious belief is best left to parents and churches.....it should not be dictated by coaches

It's not.

If a coach wants to invite a team to say a prayer so what?

You don't have to say it. I never did. My coach's religious beliefs never influenced me.

He is not forcing people to participate he is merely exercising his beliefs and there can be no law passed that prohibits him from doing so.

The players depend on the coach for playing time. A coach requiring a team Lords Prayer is in a unique position to influence his players whether they want to say it or not.

Would parents tolerate a coach who insisted his players recite that there is no Jesus?

 

[PratchettFan]

You are fixated by that image. Perhaps you need to resolve some of those issues. But anyway, thanks again for confirming my point.

Oh don't be silly.

Believe whatever you want but don't pretend its "natural".

Or rational. Or sane.

What it is is a typical reaction by human beings to the unknown. If they don't know the answer, they make one up. You can call it irrational or insane if that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. As I just pointed out, that is the kind of thing human beings do.

Humans have responded to the unknown in many ways. Gawds have been invented to "explain" the unknown and science has been the tool to investigate and explore.

The history of humanity defines that over time, our supernatural, AKA religious perceptions have changed. As our knowledge of the natural world has become more precise, our conceptions of the material world have changed and more closely approximate truth. Humanity has progressed from animism, to paganism, to polytheism, to monotheism, from supernatural theism, to ID'iot creationism, to reinventions of gods who are little more than paper shufflers. We have evolved our conception of existence from a universe of 3 stories (heaven, earth and hell) to a flat earth, to a round earth at the center of the universe, to a small planet circling an ordinary star at a point in space in an ordinary galaxy within an immense universe. Our timelines have expanded from a 6,000 year old earth, to an earth 4-5 billion years old within a universe of 14 billion years with mass extinctions, and human history just a brief moment in all that history. All of the changes in our understanding and conception of the nature of the universe have dictated a change in our conception of the various gods that have been invented to explain the natural world we didn't understand. Fear of the unknown and the invention of gods, demons and supernatural entities in various forms is a constant feature of human history, culture and society as a means to placate our fears. I think it is unlikely that religions, gods and notions of supernatural entities will cease to exist but our history has shown, traditional explanations and concepts of gods and religions are in conflict with our knowledge of the nature of reality.

Again, thank you for confirming my point.

You didn't have a point. I was hoping to help you understand that what was once thought to be supernatural was simply a lack of knowledge.

Not a single discovery in the history of science has ever concluded with the description "this is not understandable and must therefore be supernatural".

No, you were not hoping to help me understand anything. You simply reacted to my post in a negative manner without any attempt to understand my point, then restated my point as if it were your own. What I said was that someone who didn't know what it was would see a TV as supernatural, and you just said the same thing - so that I would "understand" what I had already brought up.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Myth and legend. No different than magical gardens with talking snakes, global floods, etc.

So, taking the natural and calling it supernatural because they didn't understand it. Thank you for confirming my point.

If you believe "magical gardens with talking snakes and global floods" is natural, you need to see a mental health professional and quick.

You are fixated by that image. Perhaps you need to resolve some of those issues. But anyway, thanks again for confirming my point.

Oh don't be silly.

Believe whatever you want but don't pretend its "natural".

Or rational. Or sane.

What it is is a typical reaction by human beings to the unknown. If they don't know the answer, they make one up. You can call it irrational or insane if that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. As I just pointed out, that is the kind of thing human beings do.

True.

And, its called the bible/religion.

 

[Hollie]

Oh don't be silly.

Believe whatever you want but don't pretend its "natural".

Or rational. Or sane.

What it is is a typical reaction by human beings to the unknown. If they don't know the answer, they make one up. You can call it irrational or insane if that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. As I just pointed out, that is the kind of thing human beings do.

Humans have responded to the unknown in many ways. Gawds have been invented to "explain" the unknown and science has been the tool to investigate and explore.

The history of humanity defines that over time, our supernatural, AKA religious perceptions have changed. As our knowledge of the natural world has become more precise, our conceptions of the material world have changed and more closely approximate truth. Humanity has progressed from animism, to paganism, to polytheism, to monotheism, from supernatural theism, to ID'iot creationism, to reinventions of gods who are little more than paper shufflers. We have evolved our conception of existence from a universe of 3 stories (heaven, earth and hell) to a flat earth, to a round earth at the center of the universe, to a small planet circling an ordinary star at a point in space in an ordinary galaxy within an immense universe. Our timelines have expanded from a 6,000 year old earth, to an earth 4-5 billion years old within a universe of 14 billion years with mass extinctions, and human history just a brief moment in all that history. All of the changes in our understanding and conception of the nature of the universe have dictated a change in our conception of the various gods that have been invented to explain the natural world we didn't understand. Fear of the unknown and the invention of gods, demons and supernatural entities in various forms is a constant feature of human history, culture and society as a means to placate our fears. I think it is unlikely that religions, gods and notions of supernatural entities will cease to exist but our history has shown, traditional explanations and concepts of gods and religions are in conflict with our knowledge of the nature of reality.

Again, thank you for confirming my point.

You didn't have a point. I was hoping to help you understand that what was once thought to be supernatural was simply a lack of knowledge.

Not a single discovery in the history of science has ever concluded with the description "this is not understandable and must therefore be supernatural".

No, you were not hoping to help me understand anything. You simply reacted to my post in a negative manner without any attempt to understand my point, then restated my point as if it were your own. What I said was that someone who didn't know what it was would see a TV as supernatural, and you just said the same thing - so that I would "understand" what I had already brought up.

I actually was hoping to help you understand. That's what prompted by comments.

 

[PratchettFan]

What it is is a typical reaction by human beings to the unknown. If they don't know the answer, they make one up. You can call it irrational or insane if that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. As I just pointed out, that is the kind of thing human beings do.

Humans have responded to the unknown in many ways. Gawds have been invented to "explain" the unknown and science has been the tool to investigate and explore.

The history of humanity defines that over time, our supernatural, AKA religious perceptions have changed. As our knowledge of the natural world has become more precise, our conceptions of the material world have changed and more closely approximate truth. Humanity has progressed from animism, to paganism, to polytheism, to monotheism, from supernatural theism, to ID'iot creationism, to reinventions of gods who are little more than paper shufflers. We have evolved our conception of existence from a universe of 3 stories (heaven, earth and hell) to a flat earth, to a round earth at the center of the universe, to a small planet circling an ordinary star at a point in space in an ordinary galaxy within an immense universe. Our timelines have expanded from a 6,000 year old earth, to an earth 4-5 billion years old within a universe of 14 billion years with mass extinctions, and human history just a brief moment in all that history. All of the changes in our understanding and conception of the nature of the universe have dictated a change in our conception of the various gods that have been invented to explain the natural world we didn't understand. Fear of the unknown and the invention of gods, demons and supernatural entities in various forms is a constant feature of human history, culture and society as a means to placate our fears. I think it is unlikely that religions, gods and notions of supernatural entities will cease to exist but our history has shown, traditional explanations and concepts of gods and religions are in conflict with our knowledge of the nature of reality.

Again, thank you for confirming my point.

You didn't have a point. I was hoping to help you understand that what was once thought to be supernatural was simply a lack of knowledge.

Not a single discovery in the history of science has ever concluded with the description "this is not understandable and must therefore be supernatural".

No, you were not hoping to help me understand anything. You simply reacted to my post in a negative manner without any attempt to understand my point, then restated my point as if it were your own. What I said was that someone who didn't know what it was would see a TV as supernatural, and you just said the same thing - so that I would "understand" what I had already brought up.

I actually was hoping to help you understand. That's what prompted by comments.

Sure you were.

 

[PratchettFan]

So, taking the natural and calling it supernatural because they didn't understand it. Thank you for confirming my point.

If you believe "magical gardens with talking snakes and global floods" is natural, you need to see a mental health professional and quick.

You are fixated by that image. Perhaps you need to resolve some of those issues. But anyway, thanks again for confirming my point.

Oh don't be silly.

Believe whatever you want but don't pretend its "natural".

Or rational. Or sane.

What it is is a typical reaction by human beings to the unknown. If they don't know the answer, they make one up. You can call it irrational or insane if that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. As I just pointed out, that is the kind of thing human beings do.

True.

And, its called the bible/religion.

No. It's called human nature. Religion is simply one of the results of that nature. Not the only by any stretch.

 

[Darkwind]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

You are clueless.

I can stand on ANY government property and profess My faith loud and clear.

The government is forbidden from stopping Me from doing so.

Government employees are forbidden from expressions of religious faith, as is government itself.

Stop spouting half-truths.

 

[PratchettFan]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

You are clueless.

I can stand on ANY government property and profess My faith loud and clear.

The government is forbidden from stopping Me from doing so.

Government employees are forbidden from expressions of religious faith, as is government itself.

Stop spouting half-truths.

Actually, government employees are also free to express their faith. They just can't do that in conjunction with their job. A tax collector can wear a cross or have a picture of Jesus on their desk, they just can't tell a tax payer they need to pray before accepting the check.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

You are clueless.

I can stand on ANY government property and profess My faith loud and clear.

The government is forbidden from stopping Me from doing so.

Government employees are forbidden from expressions of religious faith, as is government itself.

Stop spouting half-truths.

That wasn't what I meant. Rereading it though I can see how it was taken that way. My bad. Meant expressions in the sense of monuments, not personal expressions.

 

[Darkwind]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

You are clueless.

I can stand on ANY government property and profess My faith loud and clear.

The government is forbidden from stopping Me from doing so.

Government employees are forbidden from expressions of religious faith, as is government itself.

Stop spouting half-truths.

That wasn't what I meant. Rereading it though I can see how it was taken that way. My bad. Meant expressions in the sense of monuments, not personal expressions.

Which can also be argued...but I won't as I need to get out of here.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

So now tell me is a law prohibiting a person from engaging in his religious beliefs on public land tantamount to prohibiting the free exercise thereof?

Atheists are funny to me and I happen to identify myself as one. My main difference with most atheists is that I don't care if other people practice their religion or say a prayer on public property. As long as congress passes no law respecting or prohibiting it.

As an example in high school the coaches liked to say the lord's prayer. I stood with the team but didn't recite the words. No big deal.

How can anyone be offended by that which they do not believe anyway?

How can anyone be offended by that which they do not believe anyway

Would anyone be offended if prior to the game we formed a circle to pronounce that there was no Jesus?

Atheist coach

"Look boys, there ain't no Jesus who is gunna help us win this game. We gotta do it on our own"

No parents would be offended?

I really don't care. No one is forced to agree. I happen to agree that a supreme being if there is one doesn't really give a shit about a high school football game anyway.

There is no right not to be offended is there?

This is what open religious expression means. If a coach can have the team recite the Lords Prayer asking for Jesus' blessing, an atheist coach can also use the occaision to declare that there is no Jesus

Religious belief is best left to parents and churches.....it should not be dictated by coaches

It's not.

If a coach wants to invite a team to say a prayer so what?

You don't have to say it. I never did. My coach's religious beliefs never influenced me.

He is not forcing people to participate he is merely exercising his beliefs and there can be no law passed that prohibits him from doing so.

The players depend on the coach for playing time. A coach requiring a team Lords Prayer is in a unique position to influence his players whether they want to say it or not.

Would parents tolerate a coach who insisted his players recite that there is no Jesus?

Where did I say it would be required? You might want to slow down and follow the words with your finger. Move your lips if you have to then maybe you'll understand what i said.

If the coach wanted to say a prayer he should be able to. The players do not have to comply. I never did when I played and the coaches said a prayer.

 

[rightwinger]

How can anyone be offended by that which they do not believe anyway

Would anyone be offended if prior to the game we formed a circle to pronounce that there was no Jesus?

Atheist coach

"Look boys, there ain't no Jesus who is gunna help us win this game. We gotta do it on our own"

No parents would be offended?

I really don't care. No one is forced to agree. I happen to agree that a supreme being if there is one doesn't really give a shit about a high school football game anyway.

There is no right not to be offended is there?

This is what open religious expression means. If a coach can have the team recite the Lords Prayer asking for Jesus' blessing, an atheist coach can also use the occaision to declare that there is no Jesus

Religious belief is best left to parents and churches.....it should not be dictated by coaches

It's not.

If a coach wants to invite a team to say a prayer so what?

You don't have to say it. I never did. My coach's religious beliefs never influenced me.

He is not forcing people to participate he is merely exercising his beliefs and there can be no law passed that prohibits him from doing so.

The players depend on the coach for playing time. A coach requiring a team Lords Prayer is in a unique position to influence his players whether they want to say it or not.

Would parents tolerate a coach who insisted his players recite that there is no Jesus?

Where did I say it would be required? You might want to slow down and follow the words with your finger. Move your lips if you have to then maybe you'll understand what i said.

If the coach wanted to say a prayer he should be able to. The players do not have to comply. I never did when I played and the coaches said a prayer.

Of course a coach can't "require" players to say the Lords Prayer with him

But players who depend on him for playing time would feel pressured to go along. It is inappropriate in a school setting

 

[NoNukes]

Yet we don't hear atheists trying to silence muslims. Hmm. Maybe they're afraid of being beheaded.

We treat all religions equally.

 

[NoNukes]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

BINGO.

So, keep your religion out of our faces and all will be well.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I really don't care. No one is forced to agree. I happen to agree that a supreme being if there is one doesn't really give a shit about a high school football game anyway.

There is no right not to be offended is there?

This is what open religious expression means. If a coach can have the team recite the Lords Prayer asking for Jesus' blessing, an atheist coach can also use the occaision to declare that there is no Jesus

Religious belief is best left to parents and churches.....it should not be dictated by coaches

It's not.

If a coach wants to invite a team to say a prayer so what?

You don't have to say it. I never did. My coach's religious beliefs never influenced me.

He is not forcing people to participate he is merely exercising his beliefs and there can be no law passed that prohibits him from doing so.

The players depend on the coach for playing time. A coach requiring a team Lords Prayer is in a unique position to influence his players whether they want to say it or not.

Would parents tolerate a coach who insisted his players recite that there is no Jesus?

Where did I say it would be required? You might want to slow down and follow the words with your finger. Move your lips if you have to then maybe you'll understand what i said.

If the coach wanted to say a prayer he should be able to. The players do not have to comply. I never did when I played and the coaches said a prayer.

Of course a coach can't "require" players to say the Lords Prayer with him

But players who depend on him for playing time would feel pressured to go along. It is inappropriate in a school setting

Disagree.

Like I said I never said the prayers and I lettered all 4 years.

And It doesn't matter if it's a school, a public building, or a park. There can be no laws passed prohibiting anyone from practicing their religion. If that means a bunch of teachers want to say grace at their table in the cafeteria, or wherever then it's no big deal.

You people whine about intolerance yet you have absolutely no tolerance.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yet we don't hear atheists trying to silence muslims. Hmm. Maybe they're afraid of being beheaded.

We treat all religions equally.

No we don't.

 

[martybegan]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

BINGO.

So, keep your religion out of our faces and all will be well.

The 1st amendment does not require religion to be hidden in the closet.

 

[PratchettFan]

I really don't care. No one is forced to agree. I happen to agree that a supreme being if there is one doesn't really give a shit about a high school football game anyway.

There is no right not to be offended is there?

This is what open religious expression means. If a coach can have the team recite the Lords Prayer asking for Jesus' blessing, an atheist coach can also use the occaision to declare that there is no Jesus

Religious belief is best left to parents and churches.....it should not be dictated by coaches

It's not.

If a coach wants to invite a team to say a prayer so what?

You don't have to say it. I never did. My coach's religious beliefs never influenced me.

He is not forcing people to participate he is merely exercising his beliefs and there can be no law passed that prohibits him from doing so.

The players depend on the coach for playing time. A coach requiring a team Lords Prayer is in a unique position to influence his players whether they want to say it or not.

Would parents tolerate a coach who insisted his players recite that there is no Jesus?

Where did I say it would be required? You might want to slow down and follow the words with your finger. Move your lips if you have to then maybe you'll understand what i said.

If the coach wanted to say a prayer he should be able to. The players do not have to comply. I never did when I played and the coaches said a prayer.

Of course a coach can't "require" players to say the Lords Prayer with him

But players who depend on him for playing time would feel pressured to go along. It is inappropriate in a school setting

I admit it has been a couple of years, but when I first went on my HS team I didn't join in the prayer the first time. I was then counseled by the coach that it was ok if I didn't believe, but when the team was in the circle with their head bowed, then everyone was in. If I wasn't in the circle, I wasn't part of the team. If I wasn't part of the team, I wasn't on the team. So I did the next three years in the circle. It didn't change anything, but the coach has any number of ways to require things.

I do not think it appropriate for a coach to lead a prayer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

This is what open religious expression means. If a coach can have the team recite the Lords Prayer asking for Jesus' blessing, an atheist coach can also use the occaision to declare that there is no Jesus

Religious belief is best left to parents and churches.....it should not be dictated by coaches

It's not.

If a coach wants to invite a team to say a prayer so what?

You don't have to say it. I never did. My coach's religious beliefs never influenced me.

He is not forcing people to participate he is merely exercising his beliefs and there can be no law passed that prohibits him from doing so.

The players depend on the coach for playing time. A coach requiring a team Lords Prayer is in a unique position to influence his players whether they want to say it or not.

Would parents tolerate a coach who insisted his players recite that there is no Jesus?

Where did I say it would be required? You might want to slow down and follow the words with your finger. Move your lips if you have to then maybe you'll understand what i said.

If the coach wanted to say a prayer he should be able to. The players do not have to comply. I never did when I played and the coaches said a prayer.

Of course a coach can't "require" players to say the Lords Prayer with him

But players who depend on him for playing time would feel pressured to go along. It is inappropriate in a school setting

I admit it has been a couple of years, but when I first went on my HS team I didn't join in the prayer the first time. I was then counseled by the coach that it was ok if I didn't believe, but when the team was in the circle with their head bowed, then everyone was in. If I wasn't in the circle, I wasn't part of the team. If I wasn't part of the team, I wasn't on the team. So I did the next three years in the circle. It didn't change anything, but the coach has any number of ways to require things.

I do not think it appropriate for a coach to lead a prayer.

You could have stood with the team and not recited the prayer. that's what i did. I never felt compelled to believe or say a prayer. Why would anyone?

I abstained from the pledge of allegiance as well. There were never any reprisals or unfavorable consequences.