**King's Dream And Today's Racial Nightmare

[martybegan]

Your anecdotes are not what determines the amount of opportunity for everyone. Those are your personal experiences. When i was in the workforce I was always hired by a white male. However, I dont assume thats how it is everywhere. Like I said before I dont want you to be penalized. I want you to take one on the chin if necessary to reach your goal of a colorblind society. Now are you willing to do that or was all that talk just a lot of hot air?

So how is "taking it on the chin" different then being penalized? I want preferences removed, and decsions based on merit. You want revenge for past crimes, revenge on people who had nothing to do with these crimes.

Its a mindset thing. Taking it on the chin is knowing its coming and dealing with it knowing its for the greater good. Being penalized means you are unwilling victim of a rule or law. Sort of like how Black people were lynched for talking back to whites.

Its the same damn thing, no difference. I'm supposed to take one for the team because of something I had nothing to do with, just because I'm white and male. in any other case it would be a terrible terrible thing, but here its fine because the right type of person is getting screwed.

And comparing it to lynching is just stupid.

 

[Asclepias]

Time and education, not government mandates to screw one group of people over due to crimes committed in the past.

If that was true why did educated Blacks, women, and other minorities have problems getting hired before AA?

Because of a combination of racsim, sexism and in some cases actual laws that created an unlevel playing field. The Civil rights/womens rights movements removed the legal impediments, and time is needed to remove the cultural ones. What is not needed is vengeful laws that punish people that had nothing to do with the past discrimination.

So you think forcing whites to confront their bias in the work place does not have an affect on cultural impediments? How did you feel about the forced integration of baseball when jackie Robinson changed cultural attitudes? So your solution is to wait until whites decide to be generous and with no experience working with Blacks and other minorities suddenly decide they can do the job after all?

 

[martybegan]

If that was true why did educated Blacks, women, and other minorities have problems getting hired before AA?

Because of a combination of racsim, sexism and in some cases actual laws that created an unlevel playing field. The Civil rights/womens rights movements removed the legal impediments, and time is needed to remove the cultural ones. What is not needed is vengeful laws that punish people that had nothing to do with the past discrimination.

So you think forcing whites to confront their bias in the work place does not have an affect on cultural impediments? So your solution is to wait until whites decide to be generous and with no experience working with Blacks and other minorities suddenly decide they can do the job after all?

You assume whites automatically have bias, and this bias is somehow worse than the bias held by others. So its OK if a black person wants to hire only other black people, but a white person who only wants to hire other whites is automatically wrong?

You keep applying pre-1960's prejudices to 2013 people in a vain attempt at rationalizing governmental racism against people.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Time and education, not government mandates to screw one group of people over due to crimes committed in the past.

So we have to hope while you continue to reap the benes?

Again, what benefits? i wasnt around when all that crap happened, and my white skin does not do squat for me in today's job market in my current industry.

Sure it doesn't.

So you're the bear and telling me to get naked in the snow because that's fair and your solution is for me to use hope as my warmth. Do you see why this plan wouldn't be fair for one of the parties involved

 

[martybegan]

So we have to hope while you continue to reap the benes?

Again, what benefits? i wasnt around when all that crap happened, and my white skin does not do squat for me in today's job market in my current industry.

Sure it doesn't.

So you're the bear and telling me to get naked in the snow because that's fair and your solution is for me to use hope as my warmth. Do you see why this plan wouldn't be fair for one of the parties involved

You are the one seeing yourself as not being the bear, when in fact you have the same fur I do. What you are trying to do is say because your grandfather didnt have fur, I have to give you some benefit because of it.

Its not right, and no amount of rationalizing will make it so.

 

[Asclepias]

Because of a combination of racsim, sexism and in some cases actual laws that created an unlevel playing field. The Civil rights/womens rights movements removed the legal impediments, and time is needed to remove the cultural ones. What is not needed is vengeful laws that punish people that had nothing to do with the past discrimination.

So you think forcing whites to confront their bias in the work place does not have an affect on cultural impediments? So your solution is to wait until whites decide to be generous and with no experience working with Blacks and other minorities suddenly decide they can do the job after all?

You assume whites automatically have bias, and this bias is somehow worse than the bias held by others. So its OK if a black person wants to hire only other black people, but a white person who only wants to hire other whites is automatically wrong?

You keep applying pre-1960's prejudices to 2013 people in a vain attempt at rationalizing governmental racism against people.

I dont assume I know. Everyone has a bias. Its human nature. People naturally group with those that they are most like. Doesnt mean they cant be friends with someone in another group. The problem with that in this case is that your bias will make you more likely to hire someone like you. Thats not ok if we are trying to level the playing field.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Again, what benefits? i wasnt around when all that crap happened, and my white skin does not do squat for me in today's job market in my current industry.

Sure it doesn't.

So you're the bear and telling me to get naked in the snow because that's fair and your solution is for me to use hope as my warmth. Do you see why this plan wouldn't be fair for one of the parties involved

You are the one seeing yourself as not being the bear, when in fact you have the same fur I do. What you are trying to do is say because your grandfather didnt have fur, I have to give you some benefit because of it.

Its not right, and no amount of rationalizing will make it so.

You already admitted that we don't, society treats us differently. Like snow treats the bear and human differently. Since there is a difference offering the same is ignoring that difference.

Ya dig?

 

[PoliticalChic]

With the election of President Barack Hussein Obama. Martin Luther King's 'I have a dream' has come to fruition. God Bless America!

Are you saying we can call it even and move on?

Not quite yet, too many haters out there on all sides, but it is a new beginning.

Liked your "God Bless America!" comment.


A question about " too many haters out there on all sides,..."


What difference does someone else's hatred of you make to your efforts, accomplishments and your attitudes?

You don't have to hate back.

You don't have to allow it to interfere with your efforts or accomplishments.

You could simply go on with your life, and achieve.

True?



Now, before you poo-poo that as Goody-Two Shoes stuff....

This is what other groups have done.

1. How about the Irish immigrants: The living conditions was readily conducive to violence, alcoholism, and crime. And the native population quickly moved out of neighborhoods en masse as the immigrants moved in. They were characterized as drunkards, brawlers, and incompetents.

a. “The first blacks to move into Harlem were middle-class Negroes who left the black enclave in mid-Manhattan around the turn of the century to get away from the Irish living nearby.”
Thomas Sowell, “Ethnic America,” p.39.



2. How about Jewish folks? They had/have it easy? I see lots of hatred this board...but doesn't seem to have stopped them....


3. I don't believe that blacks are any less capable then the Irish or the Jews. If only they'd stop believing their 'Liberal friends.'

 

[martybegan]

Sure it doesn't.

So you're the bear and telling me to get naked in the snow because that's fair and your solution is for me to use hope as my warmth. Do you see why this plan wouldn't be fair for one of the parties involved

You are the one seeing yourself as not being the bear, when in fact you have the same fur I do. What you are trying to do is say because your grandfather didnt have fur, I have to give you some benefit because of it.

Its not right, and no amount of rationalizing will make it so.

You already admitted that we don't, society treats us differently. Like snow treats the bear and human differently. Since there is a difference offering the same is ignoring that difference.

Ya dig?

Nope. before 1960 we were different. now according to the law we are the same. what you want is to be different in revenge for the past.

I see no difference, its sad that you cannot get to that point as well.

 

[martybegan]

If that was true why did educated Blacks, women, and other minorities have problems getting hired before AA?

Because of a combination of racsim, sexism and in some cases actual laws that created an unlevel playing field. The Civil rights/womens rights movements removed the legal impediments, and time is needed to remove the cultural ones. What is not needed is vengeful laws that punish people that had nothing to do with the past discrimination.

So you think forcing whites to confront their bias in the work place does not have an affect on cultural impediments? How did you feel about the forced integration of baseball when jackie Robinson changed cultural attitudes? So your solution is to wait until whites decide to be generous and with no experience working with Blacks and other minorities suddenly decide they can do the job after all?

Robinson being added to the Brooklyn Dodgers wasn't forced, it was a decsion made by Dodgers management, and the National League made it clear that any teams that refused to play against them would be penalized.

No government intervention, no forced integration, no favoritisim due to race, just people of courage taking a stand. The solution of waiting for whites to change thier minds worked out pretty well in this case, and avoided the animosity of forced change you are getting with AA.

 

[Asclepias]

Because of a combination of racsim, sexism and in some cases actual laws that created an unlevel playing field. The Civil rights/womens rights movements removed the legal impediments, and time is needed to remove the cultural ones. What is not needed is vengeful laws that punish people that had nothing to do with the past discrimination.

So you think forcing whites to confront their bias in the work place does not have an affect on cultural impediments? How did you feel about the forced integration of baseball when jackie Robinson changed cultural attitudes? So your solution is to wait until whites decide to be generous and with no experience working with Blacks and other minorities suddenly decide they can do the job after all?

Robinson being added to the Brooklyn Dodgers wasn't forced, it was a decsion made by Dodgers management, and the National League made it clear that any teams that refused to play against them would be penalized.

No government intervention, no forced integration, no favoritisim due to race, just people of courage taking a stand. The solution of waiting for whites to change thier minds worked out pretty well in this case, and avoided the animosity of forced change you are getting with AA.

Do you realize what you just said? If it wasn't forced why would the National League threaten the teams? Does that even make sense to you?

 

[martybegan]

So you think forcing whites to confront their bias in the work place does not have an affect on cultural impediments? How did you feel about the forced integration of baseball when jackie Robinson changed cultural attitudes? So your solution is to wait until whites decide to be generous and with no experience working with Blacks and other minorities suddenly decide they can do the job after all?

Robinson being added to the Brooklyn Dodgers wasn't forced, it was a decsion made by Dodgers management, and the National League made it clear that any teams that refused to play against them would be penalized.

No government intervention, no forced integration, no favoritisim due to race, just people of courage taking a stand. The solution of waiting for whites to change thier minds worked out pretty well in this case, and avoided the animosity of forced change you are getting with AA.

Do you realize what you just said? If it wasn't forced why would the National League threaten the teams? Does that even make sense to you?

Forced would mean the government or the league made a team field a black player. the Dodgers did it of thier own volition, not in response to some court case, or due to some government program. What the NL said was other players could not refuse to play without some penalty. That is, thier ACTION would result in a REACTION.

Do YOU understand what you are talking about?

 

[Asclepias]

Robinson being added to the Brooklyn Dodgers wasn't forced, it was a decsion made by Dodgers management, and the National League made it clear that any teams that refused to play against them would be penalized.

No government intervention, no forced integration, no favoritisim due to race, just people of courage taking a stand. The solution of waiting for whites to change thier minds worked out pretty well in this case, and avoided the animosity of forced change you are getting with AA.

Do you realize what you just said? If it wasn't forced why would the National League threaten the teams? Does that even make sense to you?

Forced would mean the government or the league made a team field a black player. the Dodgers did it of thier own volition, not in response to some court case, or due to some government program. What the NL said was other players could not refuse to play without some penalty. That is, thier ACTION would result in a REACTION.

Do YOU understand what you are talking about?

No forced means forced. It doesnt have to be the government doing the forcing. Who told you that? Yes the league did force it. I understand what I'm saying but it appears you are confusing yourself.

 

[ClosedCaption]

You are the one seeing yourself as not being the bear, when in fact you have the same fur I do. What you are trying to do is say because your grandfather didnt have fur, I have to give you some benefit because of it.

Its not right, and no amount of rationalizing will make it so.

You already admitted that we don't, society treats us differently. Like snow treats the bear and human differently. Since there is a difference offering the same is ignoring that difference.

Ya dig?

Nope. before 1960 we were different. now according to the law we are the same. what you want is to be different in revenge for the past.

I see no difference, its sad that you cannot get to that point as well.

I didn't say the law I said society. If you think blacks and whites are treated the same then you live in a fantasy world or don't have access to facts that prove that assumption wrong

 

[mudwhistle]

Speeches cause inspiration and create action. Thats part of what a leader does. What exactly did he do to me that I want to erase?

But when a leader has been discovered to be full of shit the people stop listening. We stopped listening to Obama long ago.

What has he done?

Here's a short list:

Spied on journalists with wire-taps using court orders garnered under false pretenses
Spied on every single American through their cell phones, text msgs, and emails
Used DoJ lawsuits to stop businesses from moving to "right to work" states
Sued several states preventing a positive I.D. program from being implemented making it easier for unqualified voters to register, i.e. voters voting multiple times, busloads of illegal aliens , ex-cons and felons, and vote farming
Prevented deployed soldiers from voting in the last election
Raised excise taxes on gas, cigarettes, liquor, food
Used the IRS to attack his political opponents through harassment and preventing fundraising
Ended White House tours for the public
Cut off education vouchers for poor students
Increased the price of everything you eat
Made us more energy dependent on foreign oil
Turned NASA into a Muslim outreach program
Turned over our manned space program to the Russians
Ran up more debt than all the presidents before him combined
Spied on our allies
Turned over Top Secret missile codes of allies to our enemies
Delivered Iraq into the hands of Iran
Caused a 2 year backlog of veterans waiting for benefits
Used the CIA to help with the Arab Spring to cause unrest in the Middle East to help drive the price of oil
Allowed al Qaeda to steal over 400 surface to air missiles and murder 4 Americans in Benghazi
Changed the names of the surviving victims to prevent discovery
Is systematically shutting down the coal industry
Gave weapons to Mexican drug traffickers
Still maintains that the murder of 13 soldiers at Ft Hood was "workplace violence"
Has destroyed any trust our allies had before he took office
Uses a corrupt media to spread lies about his opposition
Ignores immigration laws making illegal immigration worse than ever before
Used magical money to buy $85 billion in bonds a month since Nov 2012 in order to monetize the debt causing the DOW to balloon to over 14,000
Changed background check requirements on gun purchases while calling for changes in background checks all the while claiming that his opposition doesn't believe in background checks
Claims that all of the above are just "Phony Scandals"

Obama Administration Scandals | Power Line

So far nothing on your list bothers me. Try a new list and this time put more factual information and not pet peeves. Seriously?

You don't seem to know what a pet-peeve is.