Leaving Ultra-Orthodox Judaism

[irosie91]

Well at least Hagar wasn't his half sister. Abraham went on to have what 8 children in all? Some say he got back with Hagar. Intermarriage happened forever. The more kids the more to work and fight if needed.

So Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar the Egyptian, her handmaid, at the end of ten years of Abram's dwelling in the land of Canaan, and she gave her to Abram her husband for a wife.	ג. וַתִּקַּח שָׂרַי אֵשֶׁת אַבְרָם אֶת הָגָר הַמִּצְרִית שִׁפְחָתָהּ מִקֵּץ עֶשֶׂר שָׁנִים לְשֶׁבֶת אַבְרָם בְּאֶרֶץ כְּנָעַן וַתִּתֵּן אֹתָהּ לְאַבְרָם אִישָׁהּ לוֹ לְאִשָּׁה:
So Sarai, Abram’s wife, took: She took her with words, “You are fortunate that you have merited to cleave to a holy body such as this one.” - [from Gen. Rabbah 45:3]	ותקח שרי: לקחתה בדברים אשריך שזכית לידבק בגוף קדוש כזה:
at the end of ten years: This is the allotted time for a woman who has lived ten years with her husband and has not borne children to him, when he is obligated to marry another. — [from Gen. Rabbah 45:3] See the word obligated? Sari like it or not!	מקץ עשר שנים: מועד הקבוע לאשה ששהתה עשר שנים ולא ילדה לבעלה חייב לישא אחרת:

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

you are very confused AGAIN Penelope----you are quoting----and not very well----some of the EXTENSIVE discourse on Abraham and Sarah and Hagar----which took place a couple of thousand years later and is RECORDED in books like
the Talmud------PS there is no jewish law which REQUIRES a man to
"marry" ------another woman after ten years of childlessness-------
Hagar----most commentaries agree---was Egyptian----but could have
been Sumerian. The only law/custom-----(in fact the law is CITED in the bible in the chapter that deals with Hagar---ie the actual text) is the custom of women
getting a surrogate to get them a kid-------ie a barren woman uses some other
woman and the barren woman gets to call the kid HER OWN-----
SUMERIAN TRADITION-----keep in mind----Sarah---according to the
bible is a Sumerian princess. I do not know what word the talmudists
used to describe the relationship-------but it really does not matter.

That which Abraham DOES----is consistent with the jewish laws that were
codified later-------he had sex with a slave-----so he had to EITHER
MAKE HER A LEGAL WIFE----WITH ALL THE RIGHTS OF LEGAL WIFE
----OR ---give her stuff and say "bye bye"------He chose the
"bye bye" -----which in more modern parlance is----he emancipated and paid
a slave to go away. The story indicates that he did not wish to be married
to her ---considering the times-----he did have the "power" to tell her to go
away and not be married to her------in jewish law he could not SELL HER---
OR KEEP HER as a slave if he wanted her to go away AND DID NOT
WANT TO CONFER UPON HER ALL THE RIGHTS OF A LEGAL
WIFE -----sorry
Penelope----but you really have to know a bit more than your poor
English comprehension to understand what this stuff is all about.

The Talmud and other commentaries are the comments of many
scores of persons----all recorded----not all highly credited----some
are just THERE. Your sense that you can pull a sentence out of
the Talmud and call it a "LAW"----is actually ludicrous---but you
are not really expected to know that. I should add----in jewish law---
if Abraham had actually ----made Hagar his WIFE----he did not
have the option of giving her a donkey and a few dollars and say
"BYE BYE"--------she could refuse.

God did not write the Bible so anybody's interpretation is valid. You act like the Bible is in stone, its not, it was wrote by men and that is the way it was
back then.

Penelope----are you still trying to PROVE that you are an idiot?-------
the bible is the product of the CULTURE that produced it. ------
just as the HINDU GITA is the product of the culture that produced it----
I would be just as much an idiot as are you are if I claimed that I could
interpret the GITA as well as could a well educated Hindu who had
studied Sanskrit and the Gita all of his life. I read the Gita----not being
a jerk I did not claim to KNOW Hinduism--------in college I had a good
friend------who was a BRAHMIN----raised in that tradition (not that he
clung to it) He knew lots more than did I-------LOTS AND LOTS AND
LOTS--------he even knew Sanskrit

I read the Koran at age 20-----with no prior knowledge of islam at all----
no impression at all-----NOTHING-------but I did know lots of muslims later on---
raised and educated in THAT tradition------intensely They told me about
the religion. I will say this----most muslims never read the Koran------
especially Iranians --------lots of THEM don't know islam and don't want to----
those are the ones from Teheran who fled Iran ---highly educated people pre-
Khomeini Some Pakistanis thought I know Arabic because I knew
more Arabic than did they ----the words that are similar to Hebrew.
(I did not claim expertise in Hebrew----just a little beats out a Pakistani
for Arabic)

you know nothing at all. You do not even guess well. One cannot know
a religion simply by reading DA MAIN BOOK------you did not even do that---
you parrot silly propaganda and play with google. Get some help with your
use of the English language-----your posts make me cringe

 

[Penelope]

I guess some people can't comprehend what they read. There are as many types of Muslims, as there are Jews as there are Christians, Christians may have both beat though.

 

[irosie91]

I guess some people can't comprehend what they read. There are as many types of Muslims, as there are Jews as there are Christians, Christians may have both beat though.

It is certainly true that you do not comprehend what you read Penelope-----and
all normals have a problem reading that which you write. It is not at all
unusual that people with defects of verbal and written expression ALSO have
problems with comprehension thereof------the area of the brain associated
with reading, speaking---language skills in general is pretty much localized
in the brain----generally left in a small part of a much larger area of
the fronto-tempero-parietal lobe-----altogether and very much
connected -------you can do your customary googles----Wernicke's area--
Brocas area-----that's a start. Don't let that which you find upset you

 

[irosie91]

I guess some people can't comprehend what they read. There are as many types of Muslims, as there are Jews as there are Christians, Christians may have both beat though.

btw------how does your shallow minded and idiotically superficial
statement about "types of muslims, type of jews and
types of Christians-----relate to anything? .

Ideological dispute related to religion is very important
historically and at the present time. If you are referring
to the fact that Jesus was a Pharisee------that fact is very
very important in understanding the development of
Christianity and ITS impact on the world over the past
1700 years ---------on the other hand----it is not all that
clear what you mean by TYPE ---------I am of the petite left-
handed type

 

[Sunni Man]

Irosie keeps quoting from the Talmud.

But the Talmud is just various Rabbi's opinions/commentary on verses and ideas from the Torah.

The Torah is the foundational text of Judaism and accepted by all Jews.

Whereas, there is nothing sacred about the Talmud and not all Jews accept it's authority or use it for guidance. .......

 

[irosie91]

Irosie keeps quoting from the Talmud.

But the Talmud is just various Rabbi's opinions on verses and ideas from the Torah.

The Torah is the foundational text of Judaism and accepted by all Jews.

Whereas, there is nothing sacred about the Talmud and not all Jews accept it's authority or use it for guidance. .......

try again sunni-----it is your fellow islamo Nazi nut----PENELOPE who quotes
from the Talmud----or thinks she does ------actually I quoted from what
you call the TORAH------the book of genesis is the first book of the Torah
------but not an exact quote--since the book was written in Hebrew
As to "nothing sacred" about the Talmud-----well----actually for jews-----
the written word is highly valued-----but lots of islamo Nazis confuse
torah and Talmud-------and somehow believe that anything that pops
up in the Talmud -----is not discussion but believed by jews to be
"DIVINE"------well----it's nice stuff but very confusing to penelope

 

[Penelope]

Irosie keeps quoting from the Talmud.

But the Talmud is just various Rabbi's opinions on verses and ideas from the Torah.

The Torah is the foundational text of Judaism and accepted by all Jews.

Whereas, there is nothing sacred about the Talmud and not all Jews accept it's authority or use it for guidance. .......

try again sunni-----it is your fellow islamo Nazi nut----PENELOPE who quotes
from the Talmud----or thinks she does ------actually I quoted from what
you call the TORAH------the book of genesis is the first book of the Torah
------but not an exact quote--since the book was written in Hebrew
As to "nothing sacred" about the Talmud-----well----actually for jews-----
the written word is highly valued-----but lots of islamo Nazis confuse
torah and Talmud-------and somehow believe that anything that pops
up in the Talmud -----is not discussion but believed by jews to be
"DIVINE"------well----it's nice stuff but very confusing to penelope

Then you would know Hagar was Abram's wife, if you like it or not. , I don't care if he picked her a weed and said lay down, obviously Sara possiblly had some problem she couldn't have a child and then all of a sudden she gets on in old age, ok . They all had the same problem it seems. Ha Ha.

 

[GHook93]

They used the blood gentiles for their matzoh also. Yum.

They man of the house had to bed his daughter the night of her wedding to purify her!

You have never met an orthodox Jew. I have known them. Just like all other Jews, the woman rules the roost. It's like Islam, but reverse the sexs!

No don't sound like the woman rules the roost. I don't see much differences really.

That is because you are a dumb ass. Just saying!

 

[irosie91]

Irosie keeps quoting from the Talmud.

But the Talmud is just various Rabbi's opinions on verses and ideas from the Torah.

The Torah is the foundational text of Judaism and accepted by all Jews.

Whereas, there is nothing sacred about the Talmud and not all Jews accept it's authority or use it for guidance. .......

try again sunni-----it is your fellow islamo Nazi nut----PENELOPE who quotes
from the Talmud----or thinks she does ------actually I quoted from what
you call the TORAH------the book of genesis is the first book of the Torah
------but not an exact quote--since the book was written in Hebrew
As to "nothing sacred" about the Talmud-----well----actually for jews-----
the written word is highly valued-----but lots of islamo Nazis confuse
torah and Talmud-------and somehow believe that anything that pops
up in the Talmud -----is not discussion but believed by jews to be
"DIVINE"------well----it's nice stuff but very confusing to penelope

Then you would know Hagar was Abram's wife, if you like it or not. , I don't care if he picked her a weed and said lay down, obviously Sara possiblly had some problem she couldn't have a child and then all of a sudden she gets on in old age, ok . They all had the same problem it seems. Ha Ha.

Penelope----you have, again ------posted jibberish. What does "hagar was
abram's "wife" mean? The definition of marriage varies across cultures---
did you pass the fourth grade? It is impossible to help you out of the murk
of your ignorance without knowing a bit about your background------You have
no obligation to reveal anything about yourself----however based on your
posts I would conclude that you are very poorly educated and suffered
a disorganized childhood. That which we "know" about Hagar is simply that
which is recorded in the bible--------what is recorded in the bible is -----'sarah said
to Abraham------screw my maid so that she can have a child FOR ME'------
Abraham did so----but sarah found the child---ie Ishmael to NOT be a child
of the kind of quality that could be a society leader-----ie he was no damned good.-----that's the story presented in the bible------you got other information?