Legal group finds thousands of double voters in battleground states

[Not2BSubjugated]

Its just starting..

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

Anti-universal mail ballot activists say the two states are a tip-off for what will happen in the Nov. 3 election.


Liberal journalists demand that the Trump administration, which opposes mass-mailed ballots in most states, provide evidence of fraud. The counterargument is that it is difficult to cite such examples when only a handful of states before 2020 adopted remote voting.

Public Interest Legal Foundation finds thousands of double voters

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

www.washingtontimes.com

It might have happened in North Carolina. The GOP was already busted for that.

Not Voting twice, duplicate voters on the rolls.

Does it matter why you got caught cheating or the fact that you got caught that matters?

Not at all...I am just clarifying what the lawsuit is about. They want to stop Voting by mail, but it is about getting the cleanest possible rolls before ballots go out.

While cleaning up rolls in itself isn't bad DEPENDING on how it's done, if Trump can vote by mail, everyone can.

And if Trump can be troubled to apply for his absentee ballot, then anybody who needs to vote by mail can be troubled to do the same.

or you can get up off your ass and vote in person

Why? Trump doesn't. Good enough fo

Its just starting..

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

Anti-universal mail ballot activists say the two states are a tip-off for what will happen in the Nov. 3 election.


Liberal journalists demand that the Trump administration, which opposes mass-mailed ballots in most states, provide evidence of fraud. The counterargument is that it is difficult to cite such examples when only a handful of states before 2020 adopted remote voting.

Public Interest Legal Foundation finds thousands of double voters

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

www.washingtontimes.com

It might have happened in North Carolina. The GOP was already busted for that.

Not Voting twice, duplicate voters on the rolls.

Does it matter why you got caught cheating or the fact that you got caught that matters?

Not at all...I am just clarifying what the lawsuit is about. They want to stop Voting by mail, but it is about getting the cleanest possible rolls before ballots go out.

While cleaning up rolls in itself isn't bad DEPENDING on how it's done, if Trump can vote by mail, everyone can.

And if Trump can be troubled to apply for his absentee ballot, then anybody who needs to vote by mail can be troubled to do the same.

or you can get up off your ass and vote in person

Are you arguing against absentee voting in general, or just saying fuck Trump?

nope. arguing about be lazy---get up off your ass and go vote

Ah, gotcha.

I'd love to. I wish Oregon would go back to in person polling places. As it is, my closest option is to fill out my mail-in ballot and drop it at an election drop box up the street, which I plan on doing.

Thanks for the suggestion, tho

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Its just starting..

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

Anti-universal mail ballot activists say the two states are a tip-off for what will happen in the Nov. 3 election.


Liberal journalists demand that the Trump administration, which opposes mass-mailed ballots in most states, provide evidence of fraud. The counterargument is that it is difficult to cite such examples when only a handful of states before 2020 adopted remote voting.

Public Interest Legal Foundation finds thousands of double voters

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

www.washingtontimes.com

It might have happened in North Carolina. The GOP was already busted for that.

Not Voting twice, duplicate voters on the rolls.

Does it matter why you got caught cheating or the fact that you got caught that matters?

Not at all...I am just clarifying what the lawsuit is about. They want to stop Voting by mail, but it is about getting the cleanest possible rolls before ballots go out.

While cleaning up rolls in itself isn't bad DEPENDING on how it's done, if Trump can vote by mail, everyone can.

And if Trump can be troubled to apply for his absentee ballot, then anybody who needs to vote by mail can be troubled to do the same.

What did I reply to?

They want to stop Voting by mail

Call me crazy, but I assumed that Seawytch was saying that in reference to the specific argument about the universal mail in voting schemes that have been setup last minute, which is specifically what the Trump campaign, most of the Republican party, and most right wing voters are against.

Where is this being done and how would it not work when it works already in a few states?

It seems weird to me to assume that "voting by mail" was meant to be taken at its most literal possible meaning, including absentee voting, considering that I've seen precisely zero right wingers of any note making this argument. In fact, I don't even think I've seen any right wingers on this board saying we need to do away with absentee ballots.

No one is arguing that people need to shut up and go stand in line on voting day?

California, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, and Vermont have set up schemes to send mail in ballots automatically to all voters while a hand full of states are massively expanding absentee eligibility. The fact that we haven't prosecuted anybody for widespread voter fraud in these systems doesn't make them safe, IMO. We're estimating that 80 million votes (well over half of what was cast in the 2016 general) are going to be going through the mail, which means unsupervised chains of custody. If you leave your front door wide open and go to work, then get home to find that nobody's robbed you, it might just be evidence that you got lucky, and not proof that it's okay to leave your door open every day.

And yeah, I'm sure people have said to shut up and stand in line, I just think, as I said before, that taking such statements as literal and all-encompassing is pretty obviously strawman'ing the point.

Trump's vote is going through that system.

Your point?

It's all good. We should encourage people to vote in the manner that is as easiest for them and makes them the most comfortable.

Why should ease and comfort be the primary concerns when deciding the laws and leadership of our nation?

We shouldn't put restrictions on our Constitutional Rights.

So why not vote by phone or over the internet? That'd be even easier.

That would be great when we get it set up.

Wowzers. At least you're consistent with this goofy line of reasoning.

Out of curiosity, are you also opposed to restrictions on what firearms people are allowed to own, or people with felonies on record being allowed to own them, or a complete elimination of all need for ID or background checks when purchasing a firearm?

I believe if the government can own an arm the people should be allowed to also.......before you go there I understand the logistics with nuclear weapons.

The 2nd was wrote so people could use them against the government if necessary.

We may frequently disagree, but I've gotta admit that you have an interesting spread of opinions.

It's all the same opinion. To not violate people's rights. Our rights are more than the 2nd is it not?

Yeah, no, you definitely appear to be consistent with that principle. Interesting because I didn't take you for a libertarian, but I'm admittedly not the greatest at remembering which viewpoints are associated with which screennames.

It's not even that. I believe in things Libertarians do not BUT I also believe doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing and often times when left with two candidates that I believe are wrong I will go with the Libertarian candidate. I'm leaning to Jo this time.

Answer me this. People argue all the time that people should just give in when faced with a police officer that is going to violate your civil rights and take it up with the courts. That is of course a lie for many because we see those very people get upset when people win in the courts.......but that aside.

What if the argument was..........just let the government take your guns and fight it out in the court to get them back.

Would that be acceptable?

It's not acceptable in any situation for the police to violate someone's rights, but there's a pretty broad range of particular situations and likely consequences to consider.

If the police showed up to my door right now to confiscate weapons, I would personally allow them to do so and then fight it in court, but only because I don't see it as even remotely likely that they'd be doing so to disarm me as part of a larger plot to use drastic force against me. A legal misunderstanding, even one used to leverage against me a law that I find to be oppressive, is rarely a reason for a fight to the death, which is essentially what any fight against the state is. On the other hand, if I saw them coming down the street knocking on every door for that purpose, I might consider throwing away my scabbard, so to speak, and making them pry my firearm from my cold, dead fingers, but I would do so with the understanding that I'd be forfeiting my life for that principle.

At any rate, in a lot of the high profile police brutality situations of late, the idea that any particular one was initiated by a blatant violation of the victim's rights is debatable to say the least. I would definitely say that, in situations where no such obvious violation occurs, it's reasonable for police officers to violently defend themselves against people who try to fight their way out of getting arrested. From the citizen's perspective, it sucks, but if it seems like the officer is just wrong, but might be acting in good faith with the mistaken belief that you've committed a crime, yeah, I'd generally recommend you suck it up, endure the injustice, and try to redress the situation in court after the fact.

Where voting's concerned, I consider it to be a similarly complex question. I don't like the idea of disenfranchising anyone, but I see that as a justification for an in-person setup with ID required absolutely. Every illegitimate vote cancels out a legitimate opposing vote. The only significant difference between that and actively barring that disenfranchised voter from entering the polling place, is that said legitimate voter would at least be AWARE that he was getting fucked. I also don't see how not expanding voting to allow people to do it from home is tantamount to restricting that right. Nowhere does the constitution directly assert that there's a right to vote that cannot be infringed. We have to infer that right's existence based on the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments. Together, these amendments state that the right to vote can't be denied based on race (15th), sex (19th), unpaid taxes (24th), or age for people at least 18 years old (26th). The most recent of these amendments was passed in 1971, a full 27 years before Oregon became the first state to offer universal mail in voting. I see no reason to believe that anyone ever intended for there to be a right to vote that was unduly repressed if people were generally required to show up and exercise this right in person, given that this was already the case when these amendments were passed, and none of them even mention it. Moreover, I find it ludicrous to believe that anybody's right to vote is protected by neglecting the integrity of the process and subjecting it to potential mass fraud.

The means to how a person votes was entirely left up to the states.

Not arguing that. Just showing that, as far as voting being a constitutional right, the only thing that the constitution stipulates is the collection of criteria for which voting CANNOT be denied. Not wanting to show up at the polls because one is afraid of getting sick isn't on the list. Thus, I don't view it as a restriction of a constitutional right to require that people generally vote in person.

It probably isn't but we should make sure our rights are as easy to exercise as possible.

If that ease of exercise renders the election so obviously and completely vulnerable to massive fraud, what's the point? What good is the right to vote when the vote becomes meaningless?

If Trump can safely mail in his vote, everyone can.

BS.

Absentee ballots sent out by request and limited only to those with a good reason for requiring that leeway don't create NEARLY the same logistical issues as mass mail-in voting, or NEARLY the same vulnerability to mass fraud as sending out EVERYBODY'S ballots in one crack and leaving them all in the hands of unsupervised postal carriers.

And before you drop that common, "It's been working in the mail-in states so far" argument. . . If massive numbers of ballots are passed down unsupervised chains of custody, how would we even know about tampering taking place?

And, for the record, absentee voting isn't NEARLY as safe as in person voting, if you want your vote to be counted. Mail gets lost all the time.

Trump doesn't vote absentee...he Votes by Mail.

Jesus, man. Five minutes of google searching would disabuse you of this misconception.

Donald Trump's legal residence was in New York until 2019. New York doesn't have a mail-in voting option that isn't absentee.

 

[Seawytch]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

 

[Seawytch]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

 

[Seawytch]

Its just starting..

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

Anti-universal mail ballot activists say the two states are a tip-off for what will happen in the Nov. 3 election.


Liberal journalists demand that the Trump administration, which opposes mass-mailed ballots in most states, provide evidence of fraud. The counterargument is that it is difficult to cite such examples when only a handful of states before 2020 adopted remote voting.

Public Interest Legal Foundation finds thousands of double voters

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

www.washingtontimes.com

It might have happened in North Carolina. The GOP was already busted for that.

Not Voting twice, duplicate voters on the rolls.

Does it matter why you got caught cheating or the fact that you got caught that matters?

Not at all...I am just clarifying what the lawsuit is about. They want to stop Voting by mail, but it is about getting the cleanest possible rolls before ballots go out.

While cleaning up rolls in itself isn't bad DEPENDING on how it's done, if Trump can vote by mail, everyone can.

And if Trump can be troubled to apply for his absentee ballot, then anybody who needs to vote by mail can be troubled to do the same.

What did I reply to?

They want to stop Voting by mail

Call me crazy, but I assumed that Seawytch was saying that in reference to the specific argument about the universal mail in voting schemes that have been setup last minute, which is specifically what the Trump campaign, most of the Republican party, and most right wing voters are against.

Where is this being done and how would it not work when it works already in a few states?

It seems weird to me to assume that "voting by mail" was meant to be taken at its most literal possible meaning, including absentee voting, considering that I've seen precisely zero right wingers of any note making this argument. In fact, I don't even think I've seen any right wingers on this board saying we need to do away with absentee ballots.

No one is arguing that people need to shut up and go stand in line on voting day?

California, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, and Vermont have set up schemes to send mail in ballots automatically to all voters while a hand full of states are massively expanding absentee eligibility. The fact that we haven't prosecuted anybody for widespread voter fraud in these systems doesn't make them safe, IMO. We're estimating that 80 million votes (well over half of what was cast in the 2016 general) are going to be going through the mail, which means unsupervised chains of custody. If you leave your front door wide open and go to work, then get home to find that nobody's robbed you, it might just be evidence that you got lucky, and not proof that it's okay to leave your door open every day.

And yeah, I'm sure people have said to shut up and stand in line, I just think, as I said before, that taking such statements as literal and all-encompassing is pretty obviously strawman'ing the point.

Trump's vote is going through that system.

Your point?

It's all good. We should encourage people to vote in the manner that is as easiest for them and makes them the most comfortable.

Why should ease and comfort be the primary concerns when deciding the laws and leadership of our nation?

We shouldn't put restrictions on our Constitutional Rights.

So why not vote by phone or over the internet? That'd be even easier.

That would be great when we get it set up.

Wowzers. At least you're consistent with this goofy line of reasoning.

Out of curiosity, are you also opposed to restrictions on what firearms people are allowed to own, or people with felonies on record being allowed to own them, or a complete elimination of all need for ID or background checks when purchasing a firearm?

I believe if the government can own an arm the people should be allowed to also.......before you go there I understand the logistics with nuclear weapons.

The 2nd was wrote so people could use them against the government if necessary.

We may frequently disagree, but I've gotta admit that you have an interesting spread of opinions.

It's all the same opinion. To not violate people's rights. Our rights are more than the 2nd is it not?

Yeah, no, you definitely appear to be consistent with that principle. Interesting because I didn't take you for a libertarian, but I'm admittedly not the greatest at remembering which viewpoints are associated with which screennames.

It's not even that. I believe in things Libertarians do not BUT I also believe doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing and often times when left with two candidates that I believe are wrong I will go with the Libertarian candidate. I'm leaning to Jo this time.

Answer me this. People argue all the time that people should just give in when faced with a police officer that is going to violate your civil rights and take it up with the courts. That is of course a lie for many because we see those very people get upset when people win in the courts.......but that aside.

What if the argument was..........just let the government take your guns and fight it out in the court to get them back.

Would that be acceptable?

It's not acceptable in any situation for the police to violate someone's rights, but there's a pretty broad range of particular situations and likely consequences to consider.

If the police showed up to my door right now to confiscate weapons, I would personally allow them to do so and then fight it in court, but only because I don't see it as even remotely likely that they'd be doing so to disarm me as part of a larger plot to use drastic force against me. A legal misunderstanding, even one used to leverage against me a law that I find to be oppressive, is rarely a reason for a fight to the death, which is essentially what any fight against the state is. On the other hand, if I saw them coming down the street knocking on every door for that purpose, I might consider throwing away my scabbard, so to speak, and making them pry my firearm from my cold, dead fingers, but I would do so with the understanding that I'd be forfeiting my life for that principle.

At any rate, in a lot of the high profile police brutality situations of late, the idea that any particular one was initiated by a blatant violation of the victim's rights is debatable to say the least. I would definitely say that, in situations where no such obvious violation occurs, it's reasonable for police officers to violently defend themselves against people who try to fight their way out of getting arrested. From the citizen's perspective, it sucks, but if it seems like the officer is just wrong, but might be acting in good faith with the mistaken belief that you've committed a crime, yeah, I'd generally recommend you suck it up, endure the injustice, and try to redress the situation in court after the fact.

Where voting's concerned, I consider it to be a similarly complex question. I don't like the idea of disenfranchising anyone, but I see that as a justification for an in-person setup with ID required absolutely. Every illegitimate vote cancels out a legitimate opposing vote. The only significant difference between that and actively barring that disenfranchised voter from entering the polling place, is that said legitimate voter would at least be AWARE that he was getting fucked. I also don't see how not expanding voting to allow people to do it from home is tantamount to restricting that right. Nowhere does the constitution directly assert that there's a right to vote that cannot be infringed. We have to infer that right's existence based on the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments. Together, these amendments state that the right to vote can't be denied based on race (15th), sex (19th), unpaid taxes (24th), or age for people at least 18 years old (26th). The most recent of these amendments was passed in 1971, a full 27 years before Oregon became the first state to offer universal mail in voting. I see no reason to believe that anyone ever intended for there to be a right to vote that was unduly repressed if people were generally required to show up and exercise this right in person, given that this was already the case when these amendments were passed, and none of them even mention it. Moreover, I find it ludicrous to believe that anybody's right to vote is protected by neglecting the integrity of the process and subjecting it to potential mass fraud.

The means to how a person votes was entirely left up to the states.

Not arguing that. Just showing that, as far as voting being a constitutional right, the only thing that the constitution stipulates is the collection of criteria for which voting CANNOT be denied. Not wanting to show up at the polls because one is afraid of getting sick isn't on the list. Thus, I don't view it as a restriction of a constitutional right to require that people generally vote in person.

It probably isn't but we should make sure our rights are as easy to exercise as possible.

If that ease of exercise renders the election so obviously and completely vulnerable to massive fraud, what's the point? What good is the right to vote when the vote becomes meaningless?

If Trump can safely mail in his vote, everyone can.

BS.

Absentee ballots sent out by request and limited only to those with a good reason for requiring that leeway don't create NEARLY the same logistical issues as mass mail-in voting, or NEARLY the same vulnerability to mass fraud as sending out EVERYBODY'S ballots in one crack and leaving them all in the hands of unsupervised postal carriers.

And before you drop that common, "It's been working in the mail-in states so far" argument. . . If massive numbers of ballots are passed down unsupervised chains of custody, how would we even know about tampering taking place?

And, for the record, absentee voting isn't NEARLY as safe as in person voting, if you want your vote to be counted. Mail gets lost all the time.

Trump doesn't vote absentee...he Votes by Mail.

Jesus, man. Five minutes of google searching would disabuse you of this misconception.

Donald Trump's legal residence was in New York until 2019. New York doesn't have a mail-in voting option that isn't absentee.

Trump has already voted in Florida TWICE...both times by mail despite being in Florida every weekend.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

Why? I am Positive for antibodies and donate my plasma to help those with COVID. I should wear a mask to make you feel better?

 

[Seawytch]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

Why? I am Positive for antibodies and donate my plasma to help those with COVID. I should wear a mask to make you feel better?

Yes, you should.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

Why? I am Positive for antibodies and donate my plasma to help those with COVID. I should wear a mask to make you feel better?

Yes, you should.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Is it probable? Why does the Red Cross ask me to donate every 7 days? Hmmmmm.....

Why develop a vaccine? Hmmmm....

Why are you leftists such sissies? You’re weak sauce.

From your own fucking link:

My thoughts on Hong Kong reinfection report. The key question is not whether COVID reinfection occurs. It is whether reinfection will be severe. I have said before that severe reinfection will be very rare, and reinfections won’t cause a repeat of the pandemic. NO need to panic.

 

[Seawytch]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

Why? I am Positive for antibodies and donate my plasma to help those with COVID. I should wear a mask to make you feel better?

Yes, you should.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Is it probable? Why does the Red Cross ask me to donate every 7 days? Hmmmmm.....

Why develop a vaccine? Hmmmm....

Why are you leftists such sissies? You’re weak sauce.

From your own fucking link:

My thoughts on Hong Kong reinfection report. The key question is not whether COVID reinfection occurs. It is whether reinfection will be severe. I have said before that severe reinfection will be very rare, and reinfections won’t cause a repeat of the pandemic. NO need to panic.

Yeah, not wanting to catch a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans is just "sissy".

If you are positive whether the virus is harming you or not, you can still infect others. That's why you wear the fucking mask.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

Why? I am Positive for antibodies and donate my plasma to help those with COVID. I should wear a mask to make you feel better?

Yes, you should.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Is it probable? Why does the Red Cross ask me to donate every 7 days? Hmmmmm.....

Why develop a vaccine? Hmmmm....

Why are you leftists such sissies? You’re weak sauce.

From your own fucking link:

My thoughts on Hong Kong reinfection report. The key question is not whether COVID reinfection occurs. It is whether reinfection will be severe. I have said before that severe reinfection will be very rare, and reinfections won’t cause a repeat of the pandemic. NO need to panic.

Yeah, not wanting to catch a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans is just "sissy".

If you are positive whether the virus is harming you or not, you can still infect others. That's why you wear the fucking mask.

LMaO....your own link says otherwise. I do wear a mask. And you’re still a sissy. Those 200k died cause they are old and or sick and or fat. Mostly sick and fat. You either of those? If not then chill, lady.

 

[Seawytch]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

Why? I am Positive for antibodies and donate my plasma to help those with COVID. I should wear a mask to make you feel better?

Yes, you should.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Is it probable? Why does the Red Cross ask me to donate every 7 days? Hmmmmm.....

Why develop a vaccine? Hmmmm....

Why are you leftists such sissies? You’re weak sauce.

From your own fucking link:

My thoughts on Hong Kong reinfection report. The key question is not whether COVID reinfection occurs. It is whether reinfection will be severe. I have said before that severe reinfection will be very rare, and reinfections won’t cause a repeat of the pandemic. NO need to panic.

Yeah, not wanting to catch a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans is just "sissy".

If you are positive whether the virus is harming you or not, you can still infect others. That's why you wear the fucking mask.

LMaO....your own link says otherwise. I do wear a mask. And you’re still a sissy. Those 200k died cause they are old and or sick and or fat. Mostly sick and fat. You either of those? If not then chill, lady.

No, my link does not say otherwise. It says if YOU get reinfected, it's not that bad for you. It does not say you, being infected, cannot still spread it to others.
No, they died of COVID. It is a deadly disease that is killing young and old.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

Why? I am Positive for antibodies and donate my plasma to help those with COVID. I should wear a mask to make you feel better?

Yes, you should.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Is it probable? Why does the Red Cross ask me to donate every 7 days? Hmmmmm.....

Why develop a vaccine? Hmmmm....

Why are you leftists such sissies? You’re weak sauce.

From your own fucking link:

My thoughts on Hong Kong reinfection report. The key question is not whether COVID reinfection occurs. It is whether reinfection will be severe. I have said before that severe reinfection will be very rare, and reinfections won’t cause a repeat of the pandemic. NO need to panic.

Yeah, not wanting to catch a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans is just "sissy".

If you are positive whether the virus is harming you or not, you can still infect others. That's why you wear the fucking mask.

LMaO....your own link says otherwise. I do wear a mask. And you’re still a sissy. Those 200k died cause they are old and or sick and or fat. Mostly sick and fat. You either of those? If not then chill, lady.

No, my link does not say otherwise. It says if YOU get reinfected, it's not that bad for you. It does not say you, being infected, cannot still spread it to others.
No, they died of COVID. It is a deadly disease that is killing young and old.

Nope. It’s making your body weaker so that your preexisting conditions kill you. Why else is your chance of death 40% higher if your BMI is 20+ and 90% higher if your BMI is 40+? It’s yet another great equalizer thrown at us by Mother Nature. Survival of the fittest. Deep down you know this and just don’t want to accept it. Weak Sauce.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Its just starting..

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

Anti-universal mail ballot activists say the two states are a tip-off for what will happen in the Nov. 3 election.


Liberal journalists demand that the Trump administration, which opposes mass-mailed ballots in most states, provide evidence of fraud. The counterargument is that it is difficult to cite such examples when only a handful of states before 2020 adopted remote voting.

Public Interest Legal Foundation finds thousands of double voters

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

www.washingtontimes.com

It might have happened in North Carolina. The GOP was already busted for that.

Not Voting twice, duplicate voters on the rolls.

Does it matter why you got caught cheating or the fact that you got caught that matters?

Not at all...I am just clarifying what the lawsuit is about. They want to stop Voting by mail, but it is about getting the cleanest possible rolls before ballots go out.

While cleaning up rolls in itself isn't bad DEPENDING on how it's done, if Trump can vote by mail, everyone can.

And if Trump can be troubled to apply for his absentee ballot, then anybody who needs to vote by mail can be troubled to do the same.

What did I reply to?

They want to stop Voting by mail

Call me crazy, but I assumed that Seawytch was saying that in reference to the specific argument about the universal mail in voting schemes that have been setup last minute, which is specifically what the Trump campaign, most of the Republican party, and most right wing voters are against.

Where is this being done and how would it not work when it works already in a few states?

It seems weird to me to assume that "voting by mail" was meant to be taken at its most literal possible meaning, including absentee voting, considering that I've seen precisely zero right wingers of any note making this argument. In fact, I don't even think I've seen any right wingers on this board saying we need to do away with absentee ballots.

No one is arguing that people need to shut up and go stand in line on voting day?

California, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, and Vermont have set up schemes to send mail in ballots automatically to all voters while a hand full of states are massively expanding absentee eligibility. The fact that we haven't prosecuted anybody for widespread voter fraud in these systems doesn't make them safe, IMO. We're estimating that 80 million votes (well over half of what was cast in the 2016 general) are going to be going through the mail, which means unsupervised chains of custody. If you leave your front door wide open and go to work, then get home to find that nobody's robbed you, it might just be evidence that you got lucky, and not proof that it's okay to leave your door open every day.

And yeah, I'm sure people have said to shut up and stand in line, I just think, as I said before, that taking such statements as literal and all-encompassing is pretty obviously strawman'ing the point.

Trump's vote is going through that system.

Your point?

It's all good. We should encourage people to vote in the manner that is as easiest for them and makes them the most comfortable.

Why should ease and comfort be the primary concerns when deciding the laws and leadership of our nation?

We shouldn't put restrictions on our Constitutional Rights.

So why not vote by phone or over the internet? That'd be even easier.

That would be great when we get it set up.

Wowzers. At least you're consistent with this goofy line of reasoning.

Out of curiosity, are you also opposed to restrictions on what firearms people are allowed to own, or people with felonies on record being allowed to own them, or a complete elimination of all need for ID or background checks when purchasing a firearm?

I believe if the government can own an arm the people should be allowed to also.......before you go there I understand the logistics with nuclear weapons.

The 2nd was wrote so people could use them against the government if necessary.

We may frequently disagree, but I've gotta admit that you have an interesting spread of opinions.

It's all the same opinion. To not violate people's rights. Our rights are more than the 2nd is it not?

Yeah, no, you definitely appear to be consistent with that principle. Interesting because I didn't take you for a libertarian, but I'm admittedly not the greatest at remembering which viewpoints are associated with which screennames.

It's not even that. I believe in things Libertarians do not BUT I also believe doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing and often times when left with two candidates that I believe are wrong I will go with the Libertarian candidate. I'm leaning to Jo this time.

Answer me this. People argue all the time that people should just give in when faced with a police officer that is going to violate your civil rights and take it up with the courts. That is of course a lie for many because we see those very people get upset when people win in the courts.......but that aside.

What if the argument was..........just let the government take your guns and fight it out in the court to get them back.

Would that be acceptable?

It's not acceptable in any situation for the police to violate someone's rights, but there's a pretty broad range of particular situations and likely consequences to consider.

If the police showed up to my door right now to confiscate weapons, I would personally allow them to do so and then fight it in court, but only because I don't see it as even remotely likely that they'd be doing so to disarm me as part of a larger plot to use drastic force against me. A legal misunderstanding, even one used to leverage against me a law that I find to be oppressive, is rarely a reason for a fight to the death, which is essentially what any fight against the state is. On the other hand, if I saw them coming down the street knocking on every door for that purpose, I might consider throwing away my scabbard, so to speak, and making them pry my firearm from my cold, dead fingers, but I would do so with the understanding that I'd be forfeiting my life for that principle.

At any rate, in a lot of the high profile police brutality situations of late, the idea that any particular one was initiated by a blatant violation of the victim's rights is debatable to say the least. I would definitely say that, in situations where no such obvious violation occurs, it's reasonable for police officers to violently defend themselves against people who try to fight their way out of getting arrested. From the citizen's perspective, it sucks, but if it seems like the officer is just wrong, but might be acting in good faith with the mistaken belief that you've committed a crime, yeah, I'd generally recommend you suck it up, endure the injustice, and try to redress the situation in court after the fact.

Where voting's concerned, I consider it to be a similarly complex question. I don't like the idea of disenfranchising anyone, but I see that as a justification for an in-person setup with ID required absolutely. Every illegitimate vote cancels out a legitimate opposing vote. The only significant difference between that and actively barring that disenfranchised voter from entering the polling place, is that said legitimate voter would at least be AWARE that he was getting fucked. I also don't see how not expanding voting to allow people to do it from home is tantamount to restricting that right. Nowhere does the constitution directly assert that there's a right to vote that cannot be infringed. We have to infer that right's existence based on the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments. Together, these amendments state that the right to vote can't be denied based on race (15th), sex (19th), unpaid taxes (24th), or age for people at least 18 years old (26th). The most recent of these amendments was passed in 1971, a full 27 years before Oregon became the first state to offer universal mail in voting. I see no reason to believe that anyone ever intended for there to be a right to vote that was unduly repressed if people were generally required to show up and exercise this right in person, given that this was already the case when these amendments were passed, and none of them even mention it. Moreover, I find it ludicrous to believe that anybody's right to vote is protected by neglecting the integrity of the process and subjecting it to potential mass fraud.

The means to how a person votes was entirely left up to the states.

Not arguing that. Just showing that, as far as voting being a constitutional right, the only thing that the constitution stipulates is the collection of criteria for which voting CANNOT be denied. Not wanting to show up at the polls because one is afraid of getting sick isn't on the list. Thus, I don't view it as a restriction of a constitutional right to require that people generally vote in person.

It probably isn't but we should make sure our rights are as easy to exercise as possible.

If that ease of exercise renders the election so obviously and completely vulnerable to massive fraud, what's the point? What good is the right to vote when the vote becomes meaningless?

If Trump can safely mail in his vote, everyone can.

BS.

Absentee ballots sent out by request and limited only to those with a good reason for requiring that leeway don't create NEARLY the same logistical issues as mass mail-in voting, or NEARLY the same vulnerability to mass fraud as sending out EVERYBODY'S ballots in one crack and leaving them all in the hands of unsupervised postal carriers.

And before you drop that common, "It's been working in the mail-in states so far" argument. . . If massive numbers of ballots are passed down unsupervised chains of custody, how would we even know about tampering taking place?

And, for the record, absentee voting isn't NEARLY as safe as in person voting, if you want your vote to be counted. Mail gets lost all the time.

Trump doesn't vote absentee...he Votes by Mail.

Jesus, man. Five minutes of google searching would disabuse you of this misconception.

Donald Trump's legal residence was in New York until 2019. New York doesn't have a mail-in voting option that isn't absentee.

Trump has already voted in Florida TWICE...both times by mail despite being in Florida every weekend.

Ah, I stand corrected. He has voted in Florida. . .

. . . where, in order to mail in a ballot, you have to apply for a mail-in ballot. That's an absentee voting system.

The states with universal mail-in voting in 2020 are: Washington, Oregon, California, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, New Jersey, Vermont, and Hawaii. DC also has universal mail-in voting.

There are seven states where you have to apply for a mail-in ballot AND provide a valid excuse as to why you aren't able to vote in person.

There are 34 states where you have to apply for an absentee ballot, but no excuse is required. Florida is one of these 34.

Where Americans Can Vote by Mail in the 2020 Elections (Published 2020)

More Americans will vote by mail this fall than ever before, as states expand mail voting laws in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Seawytch]

Its just starting..

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

Anti-universal mail ballot activists say the two states are a tip-off for what will happen in the Nov. 3 election.


Liberal journalists demand that the Trump administration, which opposes mass-mailed ballots in most states, provide evidence of fraud. The counterargument is that it is difficult to cite such examples when only a handful of states before 2020 adopted remote voting.

Public Interest Legal Foundation finds thousands of double voters

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

www.washingtontimes.com

It might have happened in North Carolina. The GOP was already busted for that.

Not Voting twice, duplicate voters on the rolls.

Does it matter why you got caught cheating or the fact that you got caught that matters?

Not at all...I am just clarifying what the lawsuit is about. They want to stop Voting by mail, but it is about getting the cleanest possible rolls before ballots go out.

While cleaning up rolls in itself isn't bad DEPENDING on how it's done, if Trump can vote by mail, everyone can.

And if Trump can be troubled to apply for his absentee ballot, then anybody who needs to vote by mail can be troubled to do the same.

What did I reply to?

They want to stop Voting by mail

Call me crazy, but I assumed that Seawytch was saying that in reference to the specific argument about the universal mail in voting schemes that have been setup last minute, which is specifically what the Trump campaign, most of the Republican party, and most right wing voters are against.

Where is this being done and how would it not work when it works already in a few states?

It seems weird to me to assume that "voting by mail" was meant to be taken at its most literal possible meaning, including absentee voting, considering that I've seen precisely zero right wingers of any note making this argument. In fact, I don't even think I've seen any right wingers on this board saying we need to do away with absentee ballots.

No one is arguing that people need to shut up and go stand in line on voting day?

California, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, and Vermont have set up schemes to send mail in ballots automatically to all voters while a hand full of states are massively expanding absentee eligibility. The fact that we haven't prosecuted anybody for widespread voter fraud in these systems doesn't make them safe, IMO. We're estimating that 80 million votes (well over half of what was cast in the 2016 general) are going to be going through the mail, which means unsupervised chains of custody. If you leave your front door wide open and go to work, then get home to find that nobody's robbed you, it might just be evidence that you got lucky, and not proof that it's okay to leave your door open every day.

And yeah, I'm sure people have said to shut up and stand in line, I just think, as I said before, that taking such statements as literal and all-encompassing is pretty obviously strawman'ing the point.

Trump's vote is going through that system.

Your point?

It's all good. We should encourage people to vote in the manner that is as easiest for them and makes them the most comfortable.

Why should ease and comfort be the primary concerns when deciding the laws and leadership of our nation?

We shouldn't put restrictions on our Constitutional Rights.

So why not vote by phone or over the internet? That'd be even easier.

That would be great when we get it set up.

Wowzers. At least you're consistent with this goofy line of reasoning.

Out of curiosity, are you also opposed to restrictions on what firearms people are allowed to own, or people with felonies on record being allowed to own them, or a complete elimination of all need for ID or background checks when purchasing a firearm?

I believe if the government can own an arm the people should be allowed to also.......before you go there I understand the logistics with nuclear weapons.

The 2nd was wrote so people could use them against the government if necessary.

We may frequently disagree, but I've gotta admit that you have an interesting spread of opinions.

It's all the same opinion. To not violate people's rights. Our rights are more than the 2nd is it not?

Yeah, no, you definitely appear to be consistent with that principle. Interesting because I didn't take you for a libertarian, but I'm admittedly not the greatest at remembering which viewpoints are associated with which screennames.

It's not even that. I believe in things Libertarians do not BUT I also believe doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing and often times when left with two candidates that I believe are wrong I will go with the Libertarian candidate. I'm leaning to Jo this time.

Answer me this. People argue all the time that people should just give in when faced with a police officer that is going to violate your civil rights and take it up with the courts. That is of course a lie for many because we see those very people get upset when people win in the courts.......but that aside.

What if the argument was..........just let the government take your guns and fight it out in the court to get them back.

Would that be acceptable?

It's not acceptable in any situation for the police to violate someone's rights, but there's a pretty broad range of particular situations and likely consequences to consider.

If the police showed up to my door right now to confiscate weapons, I would personally allow them to do so and then fight it in court, but only because I don't see it as even remotely likely that they'd be doing so to disarm me as part of a larger plot to use drastic force against me. A legal misunderstanding, even one used to leverage against me a law that I find to be oppressive, is rarely a reason for a fight to the death, which is essentially what any fight against the state is. On the other hand, if I saw them coming down the street knocking on every door for that purpose, I might consider throwing away my scabbard, so to speak, and making them pry my firearm from my cold, dead fingers, but I would do so with the understanding that I'd be forfeiting my life for that principle.

At any rate, in a lot of the high profile police brutality situations of late, the idea that any particular one was initiated by a blatant violation of the victim's rights is debatable to say the least. I would definitely say that, in situations where no such obvious violation occurs, it's reasonable for police officers to violently defend themselves against people who try to fight their way out of getting arrested. From the citizen's perspective, it sucks, but if it seems like the officer is just wrong, but might be acting in good faith with the mistaken belief that you've committed a crime, yeah, I'd generally recommend you suck it up, endure the injustice, and try to redress the situation in court after the fact.

Where voting's concerned, I consider it to be a similarly complex question. I don't like the idea of disenfranchising anyone, but I see that as a justification for an in-person setup with ID required absolutely. Every illegitimate vote cancels out a legitimate opposing vote. The only significant difference between that and actively barring that disenfranchised voter from entering the polling place, is that said legitimate voter would at least be AWARE that he was getting fucked. I also don't see how not expanding voting to allow people to do it from home is tantamount to restricting that right. Nowhere does the constitution directly assert that there's a right to vote that cannot be infringed. We have to infer that right's existence based on the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments. Together, these amendments state that the right to vote can't be denied based on race (15th), sex (19th), unpaid taxes (24th), or age for people at least 18 years old (26th). The most recent of these amendments was passed in 1971, a full 27 years before Oregon became the first state to offer universal mail in voting. I see no reason to believe that anyone ever intended for there to be a right to vote that was unduly repressed if people were generally required to show up and exercise this right in person, given that this was already the case when these amendments were passed, and none of them even mention it. Moreover, I find it ludicrous to believe that anybody's right to vote is protected by neglecting the integrity of the process and subjecting it to potential mass fraud.

The means to how a person votes was entirely left up to the states.

Not arguing that. Just showing that, as far as voting being a constitutional right, the only thing that the constitution stipulates is the collection of criteria for which voting CANNOT be denied. Not wanting to show up at the polls because one is afraid of getting sick isn't on the list. Thus, I don't view it as a restriction of a constitutional right to require that people generally vote in person.

It probably isn't but we should make sure our rights are as easy to exercise as possible.

If that ease of exercise renders the election so obviously and completely vulnerable to massive fraud, what's the point? What good is the right to vote when the vote becomes meaningless?

If Trump can safely mail in his vote, everyone can.

BS.

Absentee ballots sent out by request and limited only to those with a good reason for requiring that leeway don't create NEARLY the same logistical issues as mass mail-in voting, or NEARLY the same vulnerability to mass fraud as sending out EVERYBODY'S ballots in one crack and leaving them all in the hands of unsupervised postal carriers.

And before you drop that common, "It's been working in the mail-in states so far" argument. . . If massive numbers of ballots are passed down unsupervised chains of custody, how would we even know about tampering taking place?

And, for the record, absentee voting isn't NEARLY as safe as in person voting, if you want your vote to be counted. Mail gets lost all the time.

Trump doesn't vote absentee...he Votes by Mail.

Jesus, man. Five minutes of google searching would disabuse you of this misconception.

Donald Trump's legal residence was in New York until 2019. New York doesn't have a mail-in voting option that isn't absentee.

Trump has already voted in Florida TWICE...both times by mail despite being in Florida every weekend.

Ah, I stand corrected. He has voted in Florida. . .

. . . where, in order to mail in a ballot, you have to apply for a mail-in ballot. That's an absentee voting system.

The states with universal mail-in voting in 2020 are: Washington, Oregon, California, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, New Jersey, Vermont, and Hawaii. DC also has universal mail-in voting.

There are seven states where you have to apply for a mail-in ballot AND provide a valid excuse as to why you aren't able to vote in person.

There are 34 states where you have to apply for an absentee ballot, but no excuse is required. Florida is one of these 34.

Where Americans Can Vote by Mail in the 2020 Elections (Published 2020)

More Americans will vote by mail this fall than ever before, as states expand mail voting laws in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

No, it is not. An absentee ballot requires an excuse to get one, Vote by Mail does not. There are only SIX states left that require an excuse to get a ballot (IN, LA, MS, SC, TN & TX). The rest allow no excuse Vote by Mail. Prior to a global, deadly, pandemic, five states plus half of California automatically mailed a ballot to every registered voter. This time around another 4 plus the rest of California will.

So, Trump Votes by Mail, not absentee. Good enough for him, good enough for me.

 

[Seawytch]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

Why? I am Positive for antibodies and donate my plasma to help those with COVID. I should wear a mask to make you feel better?

Yes, you should.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Is it probable? Why does the Red Cross ask me to donate every 7 days? Hmmmmm.....

Why develop a vaccine? Hmmmm....

Why are you leftists such sissies? You’re weak sauce.

From your own fucking link:

My thoughts on Hong Kong reinfection report. The key question is not whether COVID reinfection occurs. It is whether reinfection will be severe. I have said before that severe reinfection will be very rare, and reinfections won’t cause a repeat of the pandemic. NO need to panic.

Yeah, not wanting to catch a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans is just "sissy".

If you are positive whether the virus is harming you or not, you can still infect others. That's why you wear the fucking mask.

LMaO....your own link says otherwise. I do wear a mask. And you’re still a sissy. Those 200k died cause they are old and or sick and or fat. Mostly sick and fat. You either of those? If not then chill, lady.

No, my link does not say otherwise. It says if YOU get reinfected, it's not that bad for you. It does not say you, being infected, cannot still spread it to others.
No, they died of COVID. It is a deadly disease that is killing young and old.

Nope. It’s making your body weaker so that your preexisting conditions kill you. Why else is your chance of death 40% higher if your BMI is 20+ and 90% higher if your BMI is 40+? It’s yet another great equalizer thrown at us by Mother Nature. Survival of the fittest. Deep down you know this and just don’t want to accept it. Weak Sauce.

They would not have died if they hadn't been exposed to a deadly virus. They died of COVID.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Its just starting..

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

Anti-universal mail ballot activists say the two states are a tip-off for what will happen in the Nov. 3 election.


Liberal journalists demand that the Trump administration, which opposes mass-mailed ballots in most states, provide evidence of fraud. The counterargument is that it is difficult to cite such examples when only a handful of states before 2020 adopted remote voting.

Public Interest Legal Foundation finds thousands of double voters

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

www.washingtontimes.com

It might have happened in North Carolina. The GOP was already busted for that.

Not Voting twice, duplicate voters on the rolls.

Does it matter why you got caught cheating or the fact that you got caught that matters?

Not at all...I am just clarifying what the lawsuit is about. They want to stop Voting by mail, but it is about getting the cleanest possible rolls before ballots go out.

While cleaning up rolls in itself isn't bad DEPENDING on how it's done, if Trump can vote by mail, everyone can.

And if Trump can be troubled to apply for his absentee ballot, then anybody who needs to vote by mail can be troubled to do the same.

What did I reply to?

They want to stop Voting by mail

Call me crazy, but I assumed that Seawytch was saying that in reference to the specific argument about the universal mail in voting schemes that have been setup last minute, which is specifically what the Trump campaign, most of the Republican party, and most right wing voters are against.

Where is this being done and how would it not work when it works already in a few states?

It seems weird to me to assume that "voting by mail" was meant to be taken at its most literal possible meaning, including absentee voting, considering that I've seen precisely zero right wingers of any note making this argument. In fact, I don't even think I've seen any right wingers on this board saying we need to do away with absentee ballots.

No one is arguing that people need to shut up and go stand in line on voting day?

California, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, and Vermont have set up schemes to send mail in ballots automatically to all voters while a hand full of states are massively expanding absentee eligibility. The fact that we haven't prosecuted anybody for widespread voter fraud in these systems doesn't make them safe, IMO. We're estimating that 80 million votes (well over half of what was cast in the 2016 general) are going to be going through the mail, which means unsupervised chains of custody. If you leave your front door wide open and go to work, then get home to find that nobody's robbed you, it might just be evidence that you got lucky, and not proof that it's okay to leave your door open every day.

And yeah, I'm sure people have said to shut up and stand in line, I just think, as I said before, that taking such statements as literal and all-encompassing is pretty obviously strawman'ing the point.

Trump's vote is going through that system.

Your point?

It's all good. We should encourage people to vote in the manner that is as easiest for them and makes them the most comfortable.

Why should ease and comfort be the primary concerns when deciding the laws and leadership of our nation?

We shouldn't put restrictions on our Constitutional Rights.

So why not vote by phone or over the internet? That'd be even easier.

That would be great when we get it set up.

Wowzers. At least you're consistent with this goofy line of reasoning.

Out of curiosity, are you also opposed to restrictions on what firearms people are allowed to own, or people with felonies on record being allowed to own them, or a complete elimination of all need for ID or background checks when purchasing a firearm?

I believe if the government can own an arm the people should be allowed to also.......before you go there I understand the logistics with nuclear weapons.

The 2nd was wrote so people could use them against the government if necessary.

We may frequently disagree, but I've gotta admit that you have an interesting spread of opinions.

It's all the same opinion. To not violate people's rights. Our rights are more than the 2nd is it not?

Yeah, no, you definitely appear to be consistent with that principle. Interesting because I didn't take you for a libertarian, but I'm admittedly not the greatest at remembering which viewpoints are associated with which screennames.

It's not even that. I believe in things Libertarians do not BUT I also believe doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing and often times when left with two candidates that I believe are wrong I will go with the Libertarian candidate. I'm leaning to Jo this time.

Answer me this. People argue all the time that people should just give in when faced with a police officer that is going to violate your civil rights and take it up with the courts. That is of course a lie for many because we see those very people get upset when people win in the courts.......but that aside.

What if the argument was..........just let the government take your guns and fight it out in the court to get them back.

Would that be acceptable?

It's not acceptable in any situation for the police to violate someone's rights, but there's a pretty broad range of particular situations and likely consequences to consider.

If the police showed up to my door right now to confiscate weapons, I would personally allow them to do so and then fight it in court, but only because I don't see it as even remotely likely that they'd be doing so to disarm me as part of a larger plot to use drastic force against me. A legal misunderstanding, even one used to leverage against me a law that I find to be oppressive, is rarely a reason for a fight to the death, which is essentially what any fight against the state is. On the other hand, if I saw them coming down the street knocking on every door for that purpose, I might consider throwing away my scabbard, so to speak, and making them pry my firearm from my cold, dead fingers, but I would do so with the understanding that I'd be forfeiting my life for that principle.

At any rate, in a lot of the high profile police brutality situations of late, the idea that any particular one was initiated by a blatant violation of the victim's rights is debatable to say the least. I would definitely say that, in situations where no such obvious violation occurs, it's reasonable for police officers to violently defend themselves against people who try to fight their way out of getting arrested. From the citizen's perspective, it sucks, but if it seems like the officer is just wrong, but might be acting in good faith with the mistaken belief that you've committed a crime, yeah, I'd generally recommend you suck it up, endure the injustice, and try to redress the situation in court after the fact.

Where voting's concerned, I consider it to be a similarly complex question. I don't like the idea of disenfranchising anyone, but I see that as a justification for an in-person setup with ID required absolutely. Every illegitimate vote cancels out a legitimate opposing vote. The only significant difference between that and actively barring that disenfranchised voter from entering the polling place, is that said legitimate voter would at least be AWARE that he was getting fucked. I also don't see how not expanding voting to allow people to do it from home is tantamount to restricting that right. Nowhere does the constitution directly assert that there's a right to vote that cannot be infringed. We have to infer that right's existence based on the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments. Together, these amendments state that the right to vote can't be denied based on race (15th), sex (19th), unpaid taxes (24th), or age for people at least 18 years old (26th). The most recent of these amendments was passed in 1971, a full 27 years before Oregon became the first state to offer universal mail in voting. I see no reason to believe that anyone ever intended for there to be a right to vote that was unduly repressed if people were generally required to show up and exercise this right in person, given that this was already the case when these amendments were passed, and none of them even mention it. Moreover, I find it ludicrous to believe that anybody's right to vote is protected by neglecting the integrity of the process and subjecting it to potential mass fraud.

The means to how a person votes was entirely left up to the states.

Not arguing that. Just showing that, as far as voting being a constitutional right, the only thing that the constitution stipulates is the collection of criteria for which voting CANNOT be denied. Not wanting to show up at the polls because one is afraid of getting sick isn't on the list. Thus, I don't view it as a restriction of a constitutional right to require that people generally vote in person.

It probably isn't but we should make sure our rights are as easy to exercise as possible.

If that ease of exercise renders the election so obviously and completely vulnerable to massive fraud, what's the point? What good is the right to vote when the vote becomes meaningless?

If Trump can safely mail in his vote, everyone can.

BS.

Absentee ballots sent out by request and limited only to those with a good reason for requiring that leeway don't create NEARLY the same logistical issues as mass mail-in voting, or NEARLY the same vulnerability to mass fraud as sending out EVERYBODY'S ballots in one crack and leaving them all in the hands of unsupervised postal carriers.

And before you drop that common, "It's been working in the mail-in states so far" argument. . . If massive numbers of ballots are passed down unsupervised chains of custody, how would we even know about tampering taking place?

And, for the record, absentee voting isn't NEARLY as safe as in person voting, if you want your vote to be counted. Mail gets lost all the time.

Trump doesn't vote absentee...he Votes by Mail.

Jesus, man. Five minutes of google searching would disabuse you of this misconception.

Donald Trump's legal residence was in New York until 2019. New York doesn't have a mail-in voting option that isn't absentee.

Trump has already voted in Florida TWICE...both times by mail despite being in Florida every weekend.

Ah, I stand corrected. He has voted in Florida. . .

. . . where, in order to mail in a ballot, you have to apply for a mail-in ballot. That's an absentee voting system.

The states with universal mail-in voting in 2020 are: Washington, Oregon, California, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, New Jersey, Vermont, and Hawaii. DC also has universal mail-in voting.

There are seven states where you have to apply for a mail-in ballot AND provide a valid excuse as to why you aren't able to vote in person.

There are 34 states where you have to apply for an absentee ballot, but no excuse is required. Florida is one of these 34.

Where Americans Can Vote by Mail in the 2020 Elections (Published 2020)

More Americans will vote by mail this fall than ever before, as states expand mail voting laws in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

No, it is not. An absentee ballot requires an excuse to get one, Vote by Mail does not. There are only SIX states left that require an excuse to get a ballot (IN, LA, MS, SC, TN & TX). The rest allow no excuse Vote by Mail. Prior to a global, deadly, pandemic, five states plus half of California automatically mailed a ballot to every registered voter. This time around another 4 plus the rest of California will.

So, Trump Votes by Mail, not absentee. Good enough for him, good enough for me.

The NYT seems to think that it's still an absentee ballot if you have to apply, even if you don't need an excuse. Take it up with them.

Edit: Also, the sort of mail-in voting that right wingers tend to have a problem with is the sort where all the voters on the rolls automatically have ballots sent out to them. Virtually nobody's bitching about mail-in ballots sent out by request.

 

[pknopp]

Its just starting..

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

Anti-universal mail ballot activists say the two states are a tip-off for what will happen in the Nov. 3 election.


Liberal journalists demand that the Trump administration, which opposes mass-mailed ballots in most states, provide evidence of fraud. The counterargument is that it is difficult to cite such examples when only a handful of states before 2020 adopted remote voting.

Public Interest Legal Foundation finds thousands of double voters

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

www.washingtontimes.com

It might have happened in North Carolina. The GOP was already busted for that.

Not Voting twice, duplicate voters on the rolls.

Does it matter why you got caught cheating or the fact that you got caught that matters?

Not at all...I am just clarifying what the lawsuit is about. They want to stop Voting by mail, but it is about getting the cleanest possible rolls before ballots go out.

While cleaning up rolls in itself isn't bad DEPENDING on how it's done, if Trump can vote by mail, everyone can.

And if Trump can be troubled to apply for his absentee ballot, then anybody who needs to vote by mail can be troubled to do the same.

What did I reply to?

They want to stop Voting by mail

Call me crazy, but I assumed that Seawytch was saying that in reference to the specific argument about the universal mail in voting schemes that have been setup last minute, which is specifically what the Trump campaign, most of the Republican party, and most right wing voters are against.

Where is this being done and how would it not work when it works already in a few states?

It seems weird to me to assume that "voting by mail" was meant to be taken at its most literal possible meaning, including absentee voting, considering that I've seen precisely zero right wingers of any note making this argument. In fact, I don't even think I've seen any right wingers on this board saying we need to do away with absentee ballots.

No one is arguing that people need to shut up and go stand in line on voting day?

California, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, and Vermont have set up schemes to send mail in ballots automatically to all voters while a hand full of states are massively expanding absentee eligibility. The fact that we haven't prosecuted anybody for widespread voter fraud in these systems doesn't make them safe, IMO. We're estimating that 80 million votes (well over half of what was cast in the 2016 general) are going to be going through the mail, which means unsupervised chains of custody. If you leave your front door wide open and go to work, then get home to find that nobody's robbed you, it might just be evidence that you got lucky, and not proof that it's okay to leave your door open every day.

And yeah, I'm sure people have said to shut up and stand in line, I just think, as I said before, that taking such statements as literal and all-encompassing is pretty obviously strawman'ing the point.

Trump's vote is going through that system.

Your point?

It's all good. We should encourage people to vote in the manner that is as easiest for them and makes them the most comfortable.

Why should ease and comfort be the primary concerns when deciding the laws and leadership of our nation?

We shouldn't put restrictions on our Constitutional Rights.

So why not vote by phone or over the internet? That'd be even easier.

That would be great when we get it set up.

Wowzers. At least you're consistent with this goofy line of reasoning.

Out of curiosity, are you also opposed to restrictions on what firearms people are allowed to own, or people with felonies on record being allowed to own them, or a complete elimination of all need for ID or background checks when purchasing a firearm?

I believe if the government can own an arm the people should be allowed to also.......before you go there I understand the logistics with nuclear weapons.

The 2nd was wrote so people could use them against the government if necessary.

We may frequently disagree, but I've gotta admit that you have an interesting spread of opinions.

It's all the same opinion. To not violate people's rights. Our rights are more than the 2nd is it not?

Yeah, no, you definitely appear to be consistent with that principle. Interesting because I didn't take you for a libertarian, but I'm admittedly not the greatest at remembering which viewpoints are associated with which screennames.

It's not even that. I believe in things Libertarians do not BUT I also believe doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing and often times when left with two candidates that I believe are wrong I will go with the Libertarian candidate. I'm leaning to Jo this time.

Answer me this. People argue all the time that people should just give in when faced with a police officer that is going to violate your civil rights and take it up with the courts. That is of course a lie for many because we see those very people get upset when people win in the courts.......but that aside.

What if the argument was..........just let the government take your guns and fight it out in the court to get them back.

Would that be acceptable?

It's not acceptable in any situation for the police to violate someone's rights, but there's a pretty broad range of particular situations and likely consequences to consider.

If the police showed up to my door right now to confiscate weapons, I would personally allow them to do so and then fight it in court, but only because I don't see it as even remotely likely that they'd be doing so to disarm me as part of a larger plot to use drastic force against me. A legal misunderstanding, even one used to leverage against me a law that I find to be oppressive, is rarely a reason for a fight to the death, which is essentially what any fight against the state is. On the other hand, if I saw them coming down the street knocking on every door for that purpose, I might consider throwing away my scabbard, so to speak, and making them pry my firearm from my cold, dead fingers, but I would do so with the understanding that I'd be forfeiting my life for that principle.

At any rate, in a lot of the high profile police brutality situations of late, the idea that any particular one was initiated by a blatant violation of the victim's rights is debatable to say the least. I would definitely say that, in situations where no such obvious violation occurs, it's reasonable for police officers to violently defend themselves against people who try to fight their way out of getting arrested. From the citizen's perspective, it sucks, but if it seems like the officer is just wrong, but might be acting in good faith with the mistaken belief that you've committed a crime, yeah, I'd generally recommend you suck it up, endure the injustice, and try to redress the situation in court after the fact.

Where voting's concerned, I consider it to be a similarly complex question. I don't like the idea of disenfranchising anyone, but I see that as a justification for an in-person setup with ID required absolutely. Every illegitimate vote cancels out a legitimate opposing vote. The only significant difference between that and actively barring that disenfranchised voter from entering the polling place, is that said legitimate voter would at least be AWARE that he was getting fucked. I also don't see how not expanding voting to allow people to do it from home is tantamount to restricting that right. Nowhere does the constitution directly assert that there's a right to vote that cannot be infringed. We have to infer that right's existence based on the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments. Together, these amendments state that the right to vote can't be denied based on race (15th), sex (19th), unpaid taxes (24th), or age for people at least 18 years old (26th). The most recent of these amendments was passed in 1971, a full 27 years before Oregon became the first state to offer universal mail in voting. I see no reason to believe that anyone ever intended for there to be a right to vote that was unduly repressed if people were generally required to show up and exercise this right in person, given that this was already the case when these amendments were passed, and none of them even mention it. Moreover, I find it ludicrous to believe that anybody's right to vote is protected by neglecting the integrity of the process and subjecting it to potential mass fraud.

The means to how a person votes was entirely left up to the states.

Not arguing that. Just showing that, as far as voting being a constitutional right, the only thing that the constitution stipulates is the collection of criteria for which voting CANNOT be denied. Not wanting to show up at the polls because one is afraid of getting sick isn't on the list. Thus, I don't view it as a restriction of a constitutional right to require that people generally vote in person.

It probably isn't but we should make sure our rights are as easy to exercise as possible.

If that ease of exercise renders the election so obviously and completely vulnerable to massive fraud, what's the point? What good is the right to vote when the vote becomes meaningless?

If Trump can safely mail in his vote, everyone can.

BS.

Absentee ballots sent out by request and limited only to those with a good reason for requiring that leeway don't create NEARLY the same logistical issues as mass mail-in voting, or NEARLY the same vulnerability to mass fraud as sending out EVERYBODY'S ballots in one crack and leaving them all in the hands of unsupervised postal carriers.

And before you drop that common, "It's been working in the mail-in states so far" argument. . . If massive numbers of ballots are passed down unsupervised chains of custody, how would we even know about tampering taking place?

And, for the record, absentee voting isn't NEARLY as safe as in person voting, if you want your vote to be counted. Mail gets lost all the time.

Trump doesn't vote absentee...he Votes by Mail.

Jesus, man. Five minutes of google searching would disabuse you of this misconception.

Donald Trump's legal residence was in New York until 2019. New York doesn't have a mail-in voting option that isn't absentee.

Trump has already voted in Florida TWICE...both times by mail despite being in Florida every weekend.

Ah, I stand corrected. He has voted in Florida. . .

. . . where, in order to mail in a ballot, you have to apply for a mail-in ballot. That's an absentee voting system.

The states with universal mail-in voting in 2020 are: Washington, Oregon, California, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, New Jersey, Vermont, and Hawaii. DC also has universal mail-in voting.

There are seven states where you have to apply for a mail-in ballot AND provide a valid excuse as to why you aren't able to vote in person.

There are 34 states where you have to apply for an absentee ballot, but no excuse is required. Florida is one of these 34.

Where Americans Can Vote by Mail in the 2020 Elections (Published 2020)

More Americans will vote by mail this fall than ever before, as states expand mail voting laws in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

No, it is not. An absentee ballot requires an excuse to get one, Vote by Mail does not. There are only SIX states left that require an excuse to get a ballot (IN, LA, MS, SC, TN & TX). The rest allow no excuse Vote by Mail. Prior to a global, deadly, pandemic, five states plus half of California automatically mailed a ballot to every registered voter. This time around another 4 plus the rest of California will.

So, Trump Votes by Mail, not absentee. Good enough for him, good enough for me.

The NYT seems to think that it's still an absentee ballot if you have to apply, even if you don't need an excuse. Take it up with them.

Edit: Also, the sort of mail-in voting that right wingers tend to have a problem with is the sort where all the voters on the rolls automatically have ballots sent out to them. Virtually nobody's bitching about mail-in ballots sent out by request.

We see statements of "stand in line" all the time.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Get off your lazy asses and go vote..........you would do it for Taco bell..........Walmart........but to VOTE.........too dangerous ......COVID.

What a bunch of lying wankers.

Taco Bell has a drive through. Walmart has curbside. I can vote by mail. Jealous? You live in one of those suck ass absentee states?

You shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail without a certified reason for not going there........and vetted as in the past.

Your side will ballot harvest your asses off......you don't fool anyone..........We have to show up here......just down the road and have to show I.D.........

You don't want to do that because you can't cheat that way.

Good thing you don't make the rules because folks WANT to Vote by Mail during a deadly pandemic. Sucks for the people in those minority six states though.

Cool story bro.............so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.............

So scared can't come out of the house except to burn shit down............You don't fool anyone.......we know what you are and what you do....

Get off your lazy fat ass and go vote.

No, you don't have to be tested to know you have it, but you should be tested to know you aren't spreading it (and you should wear a mask).

Yes, I am concerned about getting a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans in six months. I leave my home only when necessary and always wearing a mask. I avoid crowded areas and anywhere with a line...like a Vote Center or Polling Place. I go to the commissary early when no one is there and get everything else online. I will continue to do so until we have this virus under control. (Which won't be until we get the orange bungler out of office)

Fear mongering and nothing more..........cooking the books..........and we have never fucked our country for a pandemic like this time.

You are full of shit.

There will be 200,000 Americans dead in 6 months and you don't care...

Please campaign with that message...

Only 200k? More than that die per year.

Of what? What do 200,000 people die from in a six month period?

Old age

They aren't dying of old age, they are dying of COVID. Almost 200,000 Americans dead in just over six months. Thousands fewer could die if people would just wear the fucking mask.

We have to practically get undressed and we get full body scanned at airports because 3,000 people died. You'd think 200,000 would at least get us a National mask mandate.

2.8mil die in the US every year. 95% of COVID deaths are due to someone having some other condition and or being very old and or fat. Masks. LOL....you are brainwashed by the media. And your conflation is stupid.

Medical professionals, not the media, encourage mask use.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I can find you numerous articles that state it’s all optics. I do Not mind using masks but I am entitled to thinks its BS as well. Yes or no?

I'm sure you could...they would be OPINION pieces, not fact based. You can think whatever floats your boat...just wear the fucking mask.

Why? I am Positive for antibodies and donate my plasma to help those with COVID. I should wear a mask to make you feel better?

Yes, you should.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Is it probable? Why does the Red Cross ask me to donate every 7 days? Hmmmmm.....

Why develop a vaccine? Hmmmm....

Why are you leftists such sissies? You’re weak sauce.

From your own fucking link:

My thoughts on Hong Kong reinfection report. The key question is not whether COVID reinfection occurs. It is whether reinfection will be severe. I have said before that severe reinfection will be very rare, and reinfections won’t cause a repeat of the pandemic. NO need to panic.

Yeah, not wanting to catch a deadly virus that has killed almost 200,000 Americans is just "sissy".

If you are positive whether the virus is harming you or not, you can still infect others. That's why you wear the fucking mask.

LMaO....your own link says otherwise. I do wear a mask. And you’re still a sissy. Those 200k died cause they are old and or sick and or fat. Mostly sick and fat. You either of those? If not then chill, lady.

No, my link does not say otherwise. It says if YOU get reinfected, it's not that bad for you. It does not say you, being infected, cannot still spread it to others.
No, they died of COVID. It is a deadly disease that is killing young and old.

Nope. It’s making your body weaker so that your preexisting conditions kill you. Why else is your chance of death 40% higher if your BMI is 20+ and 90% higher if your BMI is 40+? It’s yet another great equalizer thrown at us by Mother Nature. Survival of the fittest. Deep down you know this and just don’t want to accept it. Weak Sauce.

They would not have died if they hadn't been exposed to a deadly virus. They died of COVID.

You don’t know that. That’s a guesstimate on your part. You do realize that if Hospitals say they died from COVID they get more $$$ and hospitals were dying due to lack of surgeries, which is where they make most of their $$$. More deaths were caused by the lockdowns than COVID itself.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Its just starting..

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

Anti-universal mail ballot activists say the two states are a tip-off for what will happen in the Nov. 3 election.


Liberal journalists demand that the Trump administration, which opposes mass-mailed ballots in most states, provide evidence of fraud. The counterargument is that it is difficult to cite such examples when only a handful of states before 2020 adopted remote voting.

Public Interest Legal Foundation finds thousands of double voters

A legal foundation has filed two court briefs that assert that double voting by the thousands happened in 2016-2018 in Georgia and North Carolina, as the nation prepares for its first large-scale, mail-in balloting to elect a president.

www.washingtontimes.com

It might have happened in North Carolina. The GOP was already busted for that.

Not Voting twice, duplicate voters on the rolls.

Does it matter why you got caught cheating or the fact that you got caught that matters?

Not at all...I am just clarifying what the lawsuit is about. They want to stop Voting by mail, but it is about getting the cleanest possible rolls before ballots go out.

While cleaning up rolls in itself isn't bad DEPENDING on how it's done, if Trump can vote by mail, everyone can.

And if Trump can be troubled to apply for his absentee ballot, then anybody who needs to vote by mail can be troubled to do the same.

What did I reply to?

They want to stop Voting by mail

Call me crazy, but I assumed that Seawytch was saying that in reference to the specific argument about the universal mail in voting schemes that have been setup last minute, which is specifically what the Trump campaign, most of the Republican party, and most right wing voters are against.

Where is this being done and how would it not work when it works already in a few states?

It seems weird to me to assume that "voting by mail" was meant to be taken at its most literal possible meaning, including absentee voting, considering that I've seen precisely zero right wingers of any note making this argument. In fact, I don't even think I've seen any right wingers on this board saying we need to do away with absentee ballots.

No one is arguing that people need to shut up and go stand in line on voting day?

California, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, and Vermont have set up schemes to send mail in ballots automatically to all voters while a hand full of states are massively expanding absentee eligibility. The fact that we haven't prosecuted anybody for widespread voter fraud in these systems doesn't make them safe, IMO. We're estimating that 80 million votes (well over half of what was cast in the 2016 general) are going to be going through the mail, which means unsupervised chains of custody. If you leave your front door wide open and go to work, then get home to find that nobody's robbed you, it might just be evidence that you got lucky, and not proof that it's okay to leave your door open every day.

And yeah, I'm sure people have said to shut up and stand in line, I just think, as I said before, that taking such statements as literal and all-encompassing is pretty obviously strawman'ing the point.

Trump's vote is going through that system.

Your point?

It's all good. We should encourage people to vote in the manner that is as easiest for them and makes them the most comfortable.

Why should ease and comfort be the primary concerns when deciding the laws and leadership of our nation?

We shouldn't put restrictions on our Constitutional Rights.

So why not vote by phone or over the internet? That'd be even easier.

That would be great when we get it set up.

Wowzers. At least you're consistent with this goofy line of reasoning.

Out of curiosity, are you also opposed to restrictions on what firearms people are allowed to own, or people with felonies on record being allowed to own them, or a complete elimination of all need for ID or background checks when purchasing a firearm?

I believe if the government can own an arm the people should be allowed to also.......before you go there I understand the logistics with nuclear weapons.

The 2nd was wrote so people could use them against the government if necessary.

We may frequently disagree, but I've gotta admit that you have an interesting spread of opinions.

It's all the same opinion. To not violate people's rights. Our rights are more than the 2nd is it not?

Yeah, no, you definitely appear to be consistent with that principle. Interesting because I didn't take you for a libertarian, but I'm admittedly not the greatest at remembering which viewpoints are associated with which screennames.

It's not even that. I believe in things Libertarians do not BUT I also believe doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing and often times when left with two candidates that I believe are wrong I will go with the Libertarian candidate. I'm leaning to Jo this time.

Answer me this. People argue all the time that people should just give in when faced with a police officer that is going to violate your civil rights and take it up with the courts. That is of course a lie for many because we see those very people get upset when people win in the courts.......but that aside.

What if the argument was..........just let the government take your guns and fight it out in the court to get them back.

Would that be acceptable?

It's not acceptable in any situation for the police to violate someone's rights, but there's a pretty broad range of particular situations and likely consequences to consider.

If the police showed up to my door right now to confiscate weapons, I would personally allow them to do so and then fight it in court, but only because I don't see it as even remotely likely that they'd be doing so to disarm me as part of a larger plot to use drastic force against me. A legal misunderstanding, even one used to leverage against me a law that I find to be oppressive, is rarely a reason for a fight to the death, which is essentially what any fight against the state is. On the other hand, if I saw them coming down the street knocking on every door for that purpose, I might consider throwing away my scabbard, so to speak, and making them pry my firearm from my cold, dead fingers, but I would do so with the understanding that I'd be forfeiting my life for that principle.

At any rate, in a lot of the high profile police brutality situations of late, the idea that any particular one was initiated by a blatant violation of the victim's rights is debatable to say the least. I would definitely say that, in situations where no such obvious violation occurs, it's reasonable for police officers to violently defend themselves against people who try to fight their way out of getting arrested. From the citizen's perspective, it sucks, but if it seems like the officer is just wrong, but might be acting in good faith with the mistaken belief that you've committed a crime, yeah, I'd generally recommend you suck it up, endure the injustice, and try to redress the situation in court after the fact.

Where voting's concerned, I consider it to be a similarly complex question. I don't like the idea of disenfranchising anyone, but I see that as a justification for an in-person setup with ID required absolutely. Every illegitimate vote cancels out a legitimate opposing vote. The only significant difference between that and actively barring that disenfranchised voter from entering the polling place, is that said legitimate voter would at least be AWARE that he was getting fucked. I also don't see how not expanding voting to allow people to do it from home is tantamount to restricting that right. Nowhere does the constitution directly assert that there's a right to vote that cannot be infringed. We have to infer that right's existence based on the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments. Together, these amendments state that the right to vote can't be denied based on race (15th), sex (19th), unpaid taxes (24th), or age for people at least 18 years old (26th). The most recent of these amendments was passed in 1971, a full 27 years before Oregon became the first state to offer universal mail in voting. I see no reason to believe that anyone ever intended for there to be a right to vote that was unduly repressed if people were generally required to show up and exercise this right in person, given that this was already the case when these amendments were passed, and none of them even mention it. Moreover, I find it ludicrous to believe that anybody's right to vote is protected by neglecting the integrity of the process and subjecting it to potential mass fraud.

The means to how a person votes was entirely left up to the states.

Not arguing that. Just showing that, as far as voting being a constitutional right, the only thing that the constitution stipulates is the collection of criteria for which voting CANNOT be denied. Not wanting to show up at the polls because one is afraid of getting sick isn't on the list. Thus, I don't view it as a restriction of a constitutional right to require that people generally vote in person.

It probably isn't but we should make sure our rights are as easy to exercise as possible.

If that ease of exercise renders the election so obviously and completely vulnerable to massive fraud, what's the point? What good is the right to vote when the vote becomes meaningless?

If Trump can safely mail in his vote, everyone can.

BS.

Absentee ballots sent out by request and limited only to those with a good reason for requiring that leeway don't create NEARLY the same logistical issues as mass mail-in voting, or NEARLY the same vulnerability to mass fraud as sending out EVERYBODY'S ballots in one crack and leaving them all in the hands of unsupervised postal carriers.

And before you drop that common, "It's been working in the mail-in states so far" argument. . . If massive numbers of ballots are passed down unsupervised chains of custody, how would we even know about tampering taking place?

And, for the record, absentee voting isn't NEARLY as safe as in person voting, if you want your vote to be counted. Mail gets lost all the time.

Trump doesn't vote absentee...he Votes by Mail.

Jesus, man. Five minutes of google searching would disabuse you of this misconception.

Donald Trump's legal residence was in New York until 2019. New York doesn't have a mail-in voting option that isn't absentee.

Trump has already voted in Florida TWICE...both times by mail despite being in Florida every weekend.

Ah, I stand corrected. He has voted in Florida. . .

. . . where, in order to mail in a ballot, you have to apply for a mail-in ballot. That's an absentee voting system.

The states with universal mail-in voting in 2020 are: Washington, Oregon, California, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, New Jersey, Vermont, and Hawaii. DC also has universal mail-in voting.

There are seven states where you have to apply for a mail-in ballot AND provide a valid excuse as to why you aren't able to vote in person.

There are 34 states where you have to apply for an absentee ballot, but no excuse is required. Florida is one of these 34.

Where Americans Can Vote by Mail in the 2020 Elections (Published 2020)

More Americans will vote by mail this fall than ever before, as states expand mail voting laws in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

No, it is not. An absentee ballot requires an excuse to get one, Vote by Mail does not. There are only SIX states left that require an excuse to get a ballot (IN, LA, MS, SC, TN & TX). The rest allow no excuse Vote by Mail. Prior to a global, deadly, pandemic, five states plus half of California automatically mailed a ballot to every registered voter. This time around another 4 plus the rest of California will.

So, Trump Votes by Mail, not absentee. Good enough for him, good enough for me.

The NYT seems to think that it's still an absentee ballot if you have to apply, even if you don't need an excuse. Take it up with them.

Edit: Also, the sort of mail-in voting that right wingers tend to have a problem with is the sort where all the voters on the rolls automatically have ballots sent out to them. Virtually nobody's bitching about mail-in ballots sent out by request.

We see statements of "stand in line" all the time.

People say hyperbolic shit all the time.

What they don't seem to be saying is anything explicit about banning absentee voting.

Round and round we go with this one.