Let us discuss this openly... What exactly IS the "two states solution"?

[teddyearp]

Maximum butthurt achieved?

I only briefly played into your trolls hand since you post from your momma's basement and have no skills to actually address this thread seriously.

The rest of your post is off topic. Actually, all your posts in this thread are off topic.

 

[teddyearp]

All of the "Israeli" solutions deny the rights of over half of the Palestinians.

And when are you going to post your solution as I asked in post #80? In your own words without any cutting and pasting?

 

[louie888]

Maximum butthurt achieved?

I only briefly played into your trolls hand since you post from your momma's basement and have no skills to actually address this thread seriously.

The rest of your post is off topic. Actually, all your posts in this thread are off topic.

Off topic lol!

And I explained the solution put forth by our rabbis.... So fail!

 

[Weatherman2020]

I'm ready to open this up with the Pro-Palestinians on this board who are willing to have a logal discussion, and those who are not haters who want Israel in the sea.

Let us talk this rationally. What exactly IS the two states solution? One for Israel and one for the Palestinians? What will be the borders of such states?

Can you openly tell me what is the benefit of the so called 67 lines? what good there is in them? and why they are better than a 1 state solution?

Please elaborate. Let us discuss this rationally. No name calling and cusses.

If your looking for a rational discussion it helps to not label your opponents as "haters who want Israel in the sea" I'm assuming you mean haters not as in religious bigots but as "player haters" as in they're just jealous of they're gold rings and pimped out Cadillacs. I know Trump uses that one alot but I dont think you people know what it means, the push them into the sea comment I'm guessing was a random out of context quote from Ahmadinejad from 2004 I think.


here is the older of map of israel

as you can see most of palestine is occupied by Israel, the 1967 agreement, is where most Palestinian groups say Israel should move back to. But since jews were safer in muslim palestine then they were in christian europe most people say this entire occupation was unnecessary and illegal to begin with, and has more to do with white vs arabs then it has anything to do with Jewish people.

Many jews are anti israel, and claim the state goes not only against scripture but causes further persecution of jews, and creates more problems than it solves

so before you label everyone who is against israel as "haters who want Israel in the sea." you should try learning a little bit more than what fox news force feeds you. Then you might know what the "so called 67 lines" are all about

Shit happens when you lose wars you start.

 

[teddyearp]

Maximum butthurt achieved?

Only gave you what you wanted. Now go clean up your ejaculation before your momma comes down to the basement and sees it.

 

[Slyhunter]

The only workable solution is the 3 state solution.

 

[P F Tinmore]

All of the "Israeli" solutions deny the rights of over half of the Palestinians.

And when are you going to post your solution as I asked in post #80? In your own words without any cutting and pasting?

It is just that the Palestinians call for equal rights and the Israelis call for expelling and killing.

I think this is indicative of the moral values of the people involved.

 

[Hollie]

All of the "Israeli" solutions deny the rights of over half of the Palestinians.

And when are you going to post your solution as I asked in post #80? In your own words without any cutting and pasting?

It is just that the Palestinians call for equal rights and the Israelis call for expelling and killing.

I think this is indicative of the moral values of the people involved.

The Pal'istanians call for equal rights?

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."

 

[Coyote]

Off topic, but Coyote sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be best to rename this section to the Israel/Palestine Conflict Endless Bashing of Each Side Forever, and then create a child called Israel Palestine Solutions. LOL!

And how much do you want to bet that the Solutions forum will probably consist of 4 posters max, while the rest are bashing the same topics over and over on the other side!

 

[Slyhunter]

path 1; Destroy all Jews. --> The Arabs will simply move on to the next victim.
path 2; destroy all Palestinians. --> Problem solved.

 

[Coyote]

All of the "Israeli" solutions deny the rights of over half of the Palestinians.

And when are you going to post your solution as I asked in post #80? In your own words without any cutting and pasting?

It is just that the Palestinians call for equal rights and the Israelis call for expelling and killing.

I think this is indicative of the moral values of the people involved.

I don't think it is that simple.

The Palestinians might be calling for equal rights but many are also unwilling to allow Israeli Jews to remain there in the settlements should that become part of their new state. In other words they are calling for expelling. Likewise...they are and have been killing.

I think it's a mistake to broad brush the moral values of a people in that way - neither the Palestinians nor the Israeli's.

 

[Coyote]

path 1; Destroy all Jews. --> The Arabs will simply move on to the next victim.
path 2; destroy all Palestinians. --> Problem solved.

Of course, we're always going to have genocidal freaks proclaiming genocidal solutions.

 

[Slyhunter]

path 1; Destroy all Jews. --> The Arabs will simply move on to the next victim.
path 2; destroy all Palestinians. --> Problem solved.

Of course, we're always going to have genocidal freaks proclaiming genocidal solutions.

It isn't genocidal to kill all Palestinians. That's like saying it's genocidal to kill all Texans.

 

[Coyote]

path 1; Destroy all Jews. --> The Arabs will simply move on to the next victim.
path 2; destroy all Palestinians. --> Problem solved.

Of course, we're always going to have genocidal freaks proclaiming genocidal solutions.

It isn't genocidal to kill all Palestinians. That's like saying it's genocidal to kill all Texans.

That is genocide. You seem to have a funny idea of genocide.

 

[Shusha]

Solution:

Although as a Jew it breaks my heart to give away any part of our Promised Land, as a realist I see we have no choice. So the land has to be divided, unfortunately, according to the 1967 lines, with some land swaps. Israel should get Ma'alei Adumim (where there's a large Anglo population, including relatives and friends of mine), and the Gush bloc. Galilee (with its large Arab population), and parts of the Negev can go to Palestine in exchange. Special visiting arrangements for Jews to go to Abraham's, Rachel's, and Joseph's Tombs in Palestine. Palestine can be fully independent economically and diplomatically, but it cannot have an army. The Arab parts of East Jerusalem can be their capital if that's their preference, but that does not include the Old City, which remains under Israeli control. (Hopefully they will make Ramallah their capital.) The current status quo remains on the Temple Mount. No dual citizenship, which means that the current Jewish settlers become Palestinian citizens. Gaza will not be part of the West Bank Palestine. It will do whatever it wants to do. The End.

I don't think Israel should give up the tombs. That seems too risky from the POV of preserving Jewish history and tangible cultural artifacts.

I'm okay with giving up parts of Jerusalem (not the old city) -- perhaps we trade that tit for this tat?

The status quo on the Temple Mount definitely needs to be changed. Equality must prevail there -- rights for everyone.

I agree we are discussing, more realistically a two-more-states solution: Gaza and Palestine.

I'm pretty flexible on disarming Palestine. (Not so much with disarming Gaza). My preference would be for a temporary disarmament in exchange for military protection in the short term, with Palestine being gradually given the ability to develop its own military (as is a fundamental right of all nations) over the course of ~ten years, conditional on absolute peace with Israel and containment and control of terrorism.


Why no dual citizenship?

 

[José]

Originally posted by teddyearp
Again, quit trying to unscramble eggs. I implore you to look at the facts as they are now and try to find a solution moving forward into the future, otherwise, find another thread to bring up the 'old' problems.

Please. Pretty please. We have been needing a thread like this for a long time.

teddy...

If you call the 2-state illusion a "solution", I don't wanna know what you call a miserable failure.

 

[Lipush]

You clearly do not understand the mechanisms of decolonization.

You clearly are capable of articulating them.

I posted the link. What more do you want?

I want you to do what teddy asked you to do and articulate a clear outline of what you think the solution to the conflict would be. Not a one word answer. A clear step by step plan.

Can you do that?

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration​

Of course other international law would be in place like it would be illegal to expel any of the legal residents of the territory.

On which lands? What will Israel gain out of it?

 

[Lipush]

One person One vote would be a start

In the PA and Gaza? I agree wholeheartedly. Let's get an election going for the Palestinians.

Many of your fellow Zionists claim there is no such thing as Palestinian's from one side of their mouth's, while actually calling the people Palestinian's
If israel is the democracy they claim to be let all inhabitant's under israeli control vote in the israeli
election's

They don't want to, so there isn't any problem, now, is there?

 

[Lipush]

Solution:

Although as a Jew it breaks my heart to give away any part of our Promised Land, as a realist I see we have no choice. So the land has to be divided, unfortunately, according to the 1967 lines, with some land swaps. Israel should get Ma'alei Adumim (where there's a large Anglo population, including relatives and friends of mine), and the Gush bloc. Galilee (with its large Arab population), and parts of the Negev can go to Palestine in exchange. Special visiting arrangements for Jews to go to Abraham's, Rachel's, and Joseph's Tombs in Palestine. Palestine can be fully independent economically and diplomatically, but it cannot have an army. The Arab parts of East Jerusalem can be their capital if that's their preference, but that does not include the Old City, which remains under Israeli control. (Hopefully they will make Ramallah their capital.) The current status quo remains on the Temple Mount. No dual citizenship, which means that the current Jewish settlers become Palestinian citizens. Gaza will not be part of the West Bank Palestine. It will do whatever it wants to do. The End.

Excuse you!?

 

[Lipush]

Solution:

Although as a Jew it breaks my heart to give away any part of our Promised Land, as a realist I see we have no choice. So the land has to be divided, unfortunately, according to the 1967 lines, with some land swaps. Israel should get Ma'alei Adumim (where there's a large Anglo population, including relatives and friends of mine), and the Gush bloc. Galilee (with its large Arab population), and parts of the Negev can go to Palestine in exchange. Special visiting arrangements for Jews to go to Abraham's, Rachel's, and Joseph's Tombs in Palestine. Palestine can be fully independent economically and diplomatically, but it cannot have an army. The Arab parts of East Jerusalem can be their capital if that's their preference, but that does not include the Old City, which remains under Israeli control. (Hopefully they will make Ramallah their capital.) The current status quo remains on the Temple Mount. No dual citizenship, which means that the current Jewish settlers become Palestinian citizens. Gaza will not be part of the West Bank Palestine. It will do whatever it wants to do. The End.

After I got over my initial anger, I will respond

First of, no lands of the Negev will go to 'Palestine'. ever. EVER. That is a crazy idea and no southerner will agree to it. Hell, the day that's even suggested is the day I myself put on a uniform.

So if the Galilee is given and the Negev is given, so are we to become "The State of Tel Aviv"? I find it hard to see how it's going to work, honest. East Jerusalem will probably be Palestinian, if and only Israel is to have full acess to the holy places.

Settlers will have to become Palestinian civizens, I guess we have no choice there, but the PA will have to guarantee their safety, and we trust them as much as we understand them...

Gaza will belong to Palestine, if Hamas wants control there, so be it. But it will mean that if one rocket is launch, Israel will have the right to turn it into one big parking lot.