Let's talk about guns

[ABikerSailor]

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

Quick question, do you think the body count (12 dead) and wounded count (59) would have been the same if he had to reload every 15 rounds?

I don't.

It would have been far less had a responsible gun owner with a CCW been in the theater.

Body armor does nothing against two in the head.

What part did you miss? The fact that he was dressed in black in a dark movie theater, or the fact that CS gas was thrown into the crowd, or the fact that he had a ballistic grade helmet on with a gas mask?

Yeah....................sure................2 shots to the head while breathing in tear gas on an already partially concealed target in a crowded theater full of panic?

Do you REALLY shoot that good (i.e. being able to hit a 1 ft target at 20-50 ft) under those conditions? I doubt it.

Unlike you, I actually spent 20 years in the military and was Sharpshooter qualified, and under those conditions (while shooting 150 round/mo) I doubt I could have made it.

Sounds like chest beating from someone who should know better, because you sure as shit ain't based in reality. Matter of fact, I'd wager that under those conditions, YOU would have shot an innocent by mistake.

 

[hortysir]

The civilians don't need it, because the military and police are already supposed to be defending them.

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

Quick question, do you think the body count (12 dead) and wounded count (59) would have been the same if he had to reload every 15 rounds?

I don't.

4 guns times 15 rounds = pretty damned close

 

[daveman]

Quick question, do you think the body count (12 dead) and wounded count (59) would have been the same if he had to reload every 15 rounds?

I don't.

It would have been far less had a responsible gun owner with a CCW been in the theater.

Body armor does nothing against two in the head.

What part did you miss? The fact that he was dressed in black in a dark movie theater, or the fact that CS gas was thrown into the crowd, or the fact that he had a ballistic grade helmet on with a gas mask?

Yeah....................sure................2 shots to the head while breathing in tear gas on an already partially concealed target in a crowded theater full of panic?

Do you REALLY shoot that good (i.e. being able to hit a 1 ft target at 20-50 ft) under those conditions? I doubt it.

Unlike you, I actually spent 20 years in the military and was Sharpshooter qualified, and under those conditions (while shooting 150 round/mo) I doubt I could have made it.

Sounds like chest beating from someone who should know better, because you sure as shit ain't based in reality. Matter of fact, I'd wager that under those conditions, YOU would have shot an innocent by mistake.

I dunno about you, but the gas masks I wore were not bullet-proof.

Yeah, I may not have made the shot. But I'd be gunned down defending myself and those around me.

It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees. YMMV.

 

[ABikerSailor]

It would have been far less had a responsible gun owner with a CCW been in the theater.

Body armor does nothing against two in the head.

What part did you miss? The fact that he was dressed in black in a dark movie theater, or the fact that CS gas was thrown into the crowd, or the fact that he had a ballistic grade helmet on with a gas mask?

Yeah....................sure................2 shots to the head while breathing in tear gas on an already partially concealed target in a crowded theater full of panic?

Do you REALLY shoot that good (i.e. being able to hit a 1 ft target at 20-50 ft) under those conditions? I doubt it.

Unlike you, I actually spent 20 years in the military and was Sharpshooter qualified, and under those conditions (while shooting 150 round/mo) I doubt I could have made it.

Sounds like chest beating from someone who should know better, because you sure as shit ain't based in reality. Matter of fact, I'd wager that under those conditions, YOU would have shot an innocent by mistake.

I dunno about you, but the gas masks I wore were not bullet-proof.

Yeah, I may not have made the shot. But I'd be gunned down defending myself and those around me.

It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees. YMMV.

Reading comprehension dipstick............I asked if you were going to be able to hit a 1ft square target in dark conditions, breathing CS gas while people were running around in panic around you.

The one foot square target that I provided was for his face you ignorant dip. And yeah, no gas mask that I ever came across in the U.S. Navy during my 20 years of service was ever considered to be even close to bulletproof.................that's why I gave you the 1 ft square target, everything else on his body was covered.

At least you're admitting you probably wouldn't have made the shot, that's something.

 

[daveman]

What part did you miss? The fact that he was dressed in black in a dark movie theater, or the fact that CS gas was thrown into the crowd, or the fact that he had a ballistic grade helmet on with a gas mask?

Yeah....................sure................2 shots to the head while breathing in tear gas on an already partially concealed target in a crowded theater full of panic?

Do you REALLY shoot that good (i.e. being able to hit a 1 ft target at 20-50 ft) under those conditions? I doubt it.

Unlike you, I actually spent 20 years in the military and was Sharpshooter qualified, and under those conditions (while shooting 150 round/mo) I doubt I could have made it.

Sounds like chest beating from someone who should know better, because you sure as shit ain't based in reality. Matter of fact, I'd wager that under those conditions, YOU would have shot an innocent by mistake.

I dunno about you, but the gas masks I wore were not bullet-proof.

Yeah, I may not have made the shot. But I'd be gunned down defending myself and those around me.

It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees. YMMV.

Reading comprehension dipstick............I asked if you were going to be able to hit a 1ft square target in dark conditions, breathing CS gas while people were running around in panic around you.

The one foot square target that I provided was for his face you ignorant dip. And yeah, no gas mask that I ever came across in the U.S. Navy during my 20 years of service was ever considered to be even close to bulletproof.................that's why I gave you the 1 ft square target, everything else on his body was covered.

At least you're admitting you probably wouldn't have made the shot, that's something.

The difference between us?

I would have tried to do something about it.

You would have let it happen.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I dunno about you, but the gas masks I wore were not bullet-proof.

Yeah, I may not have made the shot. But I'd be gunned down defending myself and those around me.

It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees. YMMV.

Reading comprehension dipstick............I asked if you were going to be able to hit a 1ft square target in dark conditions, breathing CS gas while people were running around in panic around you.

The one foot square target that I provided was for his face you ignorant dip. And yeah, no gas mask that I ever came across in the U.S. Navy during my 20 years of service was ever considered to be even close to bulletproof.................that's why I gave you the 1 ft square target, everything else on his body was covered.

At least you're admitting you probably wouldn't have made the shot, that's something.

The difference between us?

I would have tried to do something about it.

You would have let it happen.

Actually, I would have probably ran towards him, with or without a weapon, because that is how I was trained.........to run TOWARDS danger when shit happened. Same reason I joined the At Sea Fire Party, as well as Security Forces and PRP.

But.............when you've got nothing else to go on when you've been proven wrong, you just use conjecture and bullshit.

Too bad you didn't know me, we might have been friends.

 

[daveman]

Reading comprehension dipstick............I asked if you were going to be able to hit a 1ft square target in dark conditions, breathing CS gas while people were running around in panic around you.

The one foot square target that I provided was for his face you ignorant dip. And yeah, no gas mask that I ever came across in the U.S. Navy during my 20 years of service was ever considered to be even close to bulletproof.................that's why I gave you the 1 ft square target, everything else on his body was covered.

At least you're admitting you probably wouldn't have made the shot, that's something.

The difference between us?

I would have tried to do something about it.

You would have let it happen.

Actually, I would have probably ran towards him, with or without a weapon, because that is how I was trained.........to run TOWARDS danger when shit happened. Same reason I joined the At Sea Fire Party, as well as Security Forces and PRP.

But.............when you've got nothing else to go on when you've been proven wrong, you just use conjecture and bullshit.

Too bad you didn't know me, we might have been friends.

I don't think I could be friends with someone who doesn't want my wife and daughters to be able to defend themselves.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The difference between us?

I would have tried to do something about it.

You would have let it happen.

Actually, I would have probably ran towards him, with or without a weapon, because that is how I was trained.........to run TOWARDS danger when shit happened. Same reason I joined the At Sea Fire Party, as well as Security Forces and PRP.

But.............when you've got nothing else to go on when you've been proven wrong, you just use conjecture and bullshit.

Too bad you didn't know me, we might have been friends.

I don't think I could be friends with someone who doesn't want my wife and daughters to be able to defend themselves.

Actually, you stated YOU would go down defending them. Not them.

Try again.

 

[daveman]

Actually, I would have probably ran towards him, with or without a weapon, because that is how I was trained.........to run TOWARDS danger when shit happened. Same reason I joined the At Sea Fire Party, as well as Security Forces and PRP.

But.............when you've got nothing else to go on when you've been proven wrong, you just use conjecture and bullshit.

Too bad you didn't know me, we might have been friends.

I don't think I could be friends with someone who doesn't want my wife and daughters to be able to defend themselves.

Actually, you stated YOU would go down defending them. Not them.

Try again.

I was speaking generally.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I don't think I could be friends with someone who doesn't want my wife and daughters to be able to defend themselves.

Actually, you stated YOU would go down defending them. Not them.

Try again.

I was speaking generally.

Yeah..........like you "were speaking generally" when you stated you would have taken him out in 2 shots to the head, or when you stated that I'm someone who would run away from danger.

Face it, you know not of which you speak. Try to get more accurate in your language.

And by the way, are the rest of those people you live with such crappy shots they need 30 rounds or more?

 

[daveman]

Actually, you stated YOU would go down defending them. Not them.

Try again.

I was speaking generally.

Yeah..........like you "were speaking generally" when you stated you would have taken him out in 2 shots to the head, or when you stated that I'm someone who would run away from danger.

Face it, you know not of which you speak. Try to get more accurate in your language.

I didn't say you would run away from danger. I said you'd let the shooting happen. Try to get more accurate in your language.

And by the way, are the rest of those people you live with such crappy shots they need 30 rounds or more?

Yes, because you would have known right away the shooter was acting alone.

Right?

 

[ABikerSailor]

I was speaking generally.

Yeah..........like you "were speaking generally" when you stated you would have taken him out in 2 shots to the head, or when you stated that I'm someone who would run away from danger.

Face it, you know not of which you speak. Try to get more accurate in your language.

I didn't say you would run away from danger. I said you'd let the shooting happen. Try to get more accurate in your language.

And by the way, are the rest of those people you live with such crappy shots they need 30 rounds or more?

Yes, because you would have known right away the shooter was acting alone.

Right?

Sorry, but I don't let crap happen when I see it around me. If a fight breaks out and I'm around? I stop it, even if the odds aren't in my favor, I've done it several times.

So..................everyone you live with needs 30 rounds or more? Might wanna spend more time at the range.

 

[daveman]

Yeah..........like you "were speaking generally" when you stated you would have taken him out in 2 shots to the head, or when you stated that I'm someone who would run away from danger.

Face it, you know not of which you speak. Try to get more accurate in your language.

I didn't say you would run away from danger. I said you'd let the shooting happen. Try to get more accurate in your language.

And by the way, are the rest of those people you live with such crappy shots they need 30 rounds or more?

Yes, because you would have known right away the shooter was acting alone.

Right?

Sorry, but I don't let crap happen when I see it around me. If a fight breaks out and I'm around? I stop it, even if the odds aren't in my favor, I've done it several times.

So..................everyone you live with needs 30 rounds or more? Might wanna spend more time at the range.

Again...how could you have know the shooter was acting alone? Maybe he had a whole team. 30 rounds could come in awful handy.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I didn't say you would run away from danger. I said you'd let the shooting happen. Try to get more accurate in your language.

Yes, because you would have known right away the shooter was acting alone.

Right?

Sorry, but I don't let crap happen when I see it around me. If a fight breaks out and I'm around? I stop it, even if the odds aren't in my favor, I've done it several times.

So..................everyone you live with needs 30 rounds or more? Might wanna spend more time at the range.

Again...how could you have know the shooter was acting alone? Maybe he had a whole team. 30 rounds could come in awful handy.

If he had a team with him, they should have come in no later than 30 seconds after the tear gas grenade went off.

Bank robberies work kinda along the same lines. Short timeline, overwhelming force (if you have it).

 

[JoeB131]

I am an aussie and find it hard to understand how with 10s of thousands of deaths each year related to guns you can still scream the 'right to bear arms' quote. What about the right to live in a society where to you don't fear being shot be a psycho maniac while watching a movie, or where you can send you kids to school without metal detectors and knowing they will come home after school.
In 2011 in Australia there was approx. 18 gun related deaths. Why do you think that is?
We don't need the right to bear arms because no one has one to bear against!!!!!

Really?

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

FactCheck.org : Gun Control in Australia

Have murders increased since the gun law change, as claimed? Actually, Australian crime statistics show a marked decrease in homicides since the gun law change. According to the Australian Institute of Criminology, a government agency, the number of homicides in Australia did increase slightly in 1997 and peaked in 1999, but has since declined to the lowest number on record in 2007, the most recent year for which official figures are available.

Furthermore, murders using firearms have declined even more sharply than murders in general since the 1996 gun law. In the seven years prior to 1997, firearms were used in 24 percent of all Australian homicides. But most recently, firearms were used in only 11 percent of Australian homicides, according to figures for the 12 months ending July 1, 2007. That’s a decline of more than half since enactment of the gun law to which this message refers.

Austaila has about 282 total homicides a year, with about 11% of those being gun death, as opposed to the US, where we have about 10,000 gun deaths a year.

However, Australia does lead in death by wild animal, and you can't take that away from them.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmRexWQhs3M]Come to Australia - YouTube[/ame]

 

[PratchettFan]

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

Quick question, do you think the body count (12 dead) and wounded count (59) would have been the same if he had to reload every 15 rounds?

I don't.

It would have been far less had a responsible gun owner with a CCW been in the theater.

Body armor does nothing against two in the head.

I'm willing to bet there was someone in that theater with a CCW. Being responsible they almost certainly did the correct thing, which was get their head down and out of the line of fire. We are talking about conditions of pure chaos in the dark. Lot's of people milling around. If you think someone puts "two in the head" under those conditions you have been watching too many movies.

 

[OODA_Loop]

I'm willing to bet there was someone in that theater with a CCW.

City of Aurora and the theater banned CCW.

 

[daveman]

Sorry, but I don't let crap happen when I see it around me. If a fight breaks out and I'm around? I stop it, even if the odds aren't in my favor, I've done it several times.

So..................everyone you live with needs 30 rounds or more? Might wanna spend more time at the range.

Again...how could you have know the shooter was acting alone? Maybe he had a whole team. 30 rounds could come in awful handy.

If he had a team with him, they should have come in no later than 30 seconds after the tear gas grenade went off.

Bank robberies work kinda along the same lines. Short timeline, overwhelming force (if you have it).

Would the whole team have gone into one theater? No.

 

[daveman]

I am an aussie and find it hard to understand how with 10s of thousands of deaths each year related to guns you can still scream the 'right to bear arms' quote. What about the right to live in a society where to you don't fear being shot be a psycho maniac while watching a movie, or where you can send you kids to school without metal detectors and knowing they will come home after school.
In 2011 in Australia there was approx. 18 gun related deaths. Why do you think that is?
We don't need the right to bear arms because no one has one to bear against!!!!!

Really?

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

FactCheck.org : Gun Control in Australia

Have murders increased since the gun law change, as claimed? Actually, Australian crime statistics show a marked decrease in homicides since the gun law change. According to the Australian Institute of Criminology, a government agency, the number of homicides in Australia did increase slightly in 1997 and peaked in 1999, but has since declined to the lowest number on record in 2007, the most recent year for which official figures are available.

Furthermore, murders using firearms have declined even more sharply than murders in general since the 1996 gun law. In the seven years prior to 1997, firearms were used in 24 percent of all Australian homicides. But most recently, firearms were used in only 11 percent of Australian homicides, according to figures for the 12 months ending July 1, 2007. That’s a decline of more than half since enactment of the gun law to which this message refers.

Austaila has about 282 total homicides a year, with about 11% of those being gun death, as opposed to the US, where we have about 10,000 gun deaths a year.

However, Australia does lead in death by wild animal, and you can't take that away from them.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmRexWQhs3M]Come to Australia - YouTube[/ame]

From your link:

So there’s no consensus about whether the changes decreased gun violence or had little to no effect. But the only argument we’ve seen arguing that it caused an increase in murder comes from our anonymous e-mail author.​

And that's not the argument my link made. My link shows that violent crime went up following the gun ban. Your link only talks about firearms murders.

It looks like crime went up when Aussies were denied the right of self-defense, doesn't it?

 

[daveman]

Quick question, do you think the body count (12 dead) and wounded count (59) would have been the same if he had to reload every 15 rounds?

I don't.

It would have been far less had a responsible gun owner with a CCW been in the theater.

Body armor does nothing against two in the head.

I'm willing to bet there was someone in that theater with a CCW. Being responsible they almost certainly did the correct thing, which was get their head down and out of the line of fire. We are talking about conditions of pure chaos in the dark. Lot's of people milling around. If you think someone puts "two in the head" under those conditions you have been watching too many movies.

A responsible CCW holder does not carry in cities and facilities where CCW is prohibited.

By the way, how'd those "no weapons allowed" signs on the theater work out? Not too good, looks like.