Lindsey Graham: "I'm glad" the NSA is spying on us.

[MikeK]

Desperate times call for desperate distortions. The left wing hypocrites were outraged that Bush was monitoring targeted selected overseas conversations but now it's fine that the Obama administration monitors everyone. The "intelligence" A-holes who are so interested in our conversations and E-mail couldn't even find a terrorist in Boston when the Russians gave them the names.

First, I agree with you about leftwing hypocrisy. Obama should be fiercely criticized by the left for not having the courage to unwind the Bush surveillance state. Of course, we know what would happen if Obama undermined the law-enforcement overreach that Bush created to fight terrorism. The right would call him soft on terrorism. I don't care, I think this is the perfect thing to do in your second term when you're not running again.

Second, this program is the same NSA program that was approved in 2006, and several times thereafter. It focuses on meta-data. It flags any phone/email originating in this country to a suspicious number/email overseas - then it kicks "suspicious" ones up for further analysis. They don't listen to every call or read every email.

However, I agree with Ron Paul. When Bush created this massive centralized surveillance power, he forgot one thing: this power would be used by flawed human beings. It would be used by people who might have an agenda. It would be used by people who do not have the information or competence to use this power effectively.

You will recall what happened to Elliot Spitzer. Spitzer made a scathing critique of Bush's role in the Wall Street meltdown, especially Bush's relationship to AIG which was one of the principal players in the derivative meltdown. Then, the Bush Fed used the Patriot Act to track his finances until they got him doing something wrong. This maneuver is straight from the playbook of the old Soviet Union which strategically used national-security-threats to concentrate massive surveillance power in the hands of the state. Then, once in place, the Soviet intelligence apparatus used that power to selectively hunt and remove the domestic political opposition. [this is why an earlier generation of Republicans would never have allowed such a dangerous concentration of power in the hands of the federal government; and this is why the Republican voter who allowed Bush to create these extremely dangerous tools in the first place should be laughed at for being a pawn of the Limbaugh/Hannity bubble – a bubble where naïve and heavily manipulated patriots were fed constant overblown terror alerts so that they would go along with the Bush surveillance state. Terrorism under Bush became a method for concentrating power and money inside the hands of bureaucrats]

This is why the Democrats should be angry at Obama for not destroying what Bush created. Liberals should realize that the mere fact that such concentrated power exists in the hands of the state means that every American is more at risk than they were before the power was created. The state now has increased power to watch every free citizen and selectively hunt groups it doesn't like. This is why Libertarians don't like centralized power, because the originators of such power cannot control how future administrations will use it. They cannot control how this concentrated power will over generations.

An important question arises from this problem. Which party does America depend on to limit the power of government? Answer: the Republicans. Therefore, the fact that the Republicans created and unleashed this power on the American people is tragic. And the fact that Republican voters didn't make a peep at the greatest federal power grab in my lifetime is just fucking poetic.

But, again, let's be clear. If Obama tried to unwind the surveillance provisions within the Patriot Act, Dick Cheney would be on FOXNews the next day calling him soft on terrorism. And then there would be an attack, however small and random, and Republicans would say that the country absolutely needs the Bush surveillance date. Given an Obama is a lame duck, and given that the Republicans are not gonna let him pass anything including legislation that was first proposed by a Republican, Obama should do what he promised and get rid of the Bush surveillance date.

Spot on -- and very well done!

 

[Antares]

really? you went back on the Bush years on the board?
why can't you just comment on what your dear leader is doing instead of dragging other people in to this...

No.

They are actually stating this today.

Check out Flopper's posts. A couple of others have said the same things. They like the law. They don't like the President.

I really dislike both the law and the current occupant of the Oval Office. What's that make me?

A racist anarchist?

 

[Two Thumbs]

The PA was passed while the images of the Towers was very fresh in every ones mind.

So yeah, a lot of people that oppose it now, supported it then.

were humans

What is the excuse to keep doing it?

nothing. There is no excuse for anyone to keep supporting such a breach in our Constitutional rights.

Bush did it
You supported it once
why are you still
libs were against it when bush..
etc etc


No American should support the PA for any reason.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I really dislike both the law and the current occupant of the Oval Office. What's that make me?

Problem is, we needed you to dislike the law enough to oppose your president when he created, and then we needed to you to oppose your party and talk radio message system when they intimidated critics of the policy by calling them terrorist sympathizers

Problem is, you have little idea that I did and do oppose this unconstitutional power grab. You very obviously have no idea what my party affiliation is, either.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I really dislike both the law and the current occupant of the Oval Office. What's that make me?

Problem is, we needed you to dislike the law enough to oppose your president when he created, and then we needed to you to oppose your party and talk radio message system when they intimidated critics of the policy by calling them terrorist sympathizers

oh for crying out...why aren't YOU opposing the President now who is USING this..and people are suppose to oppose TALK RADIO?

save your high and mighty lectures..

That's a really good question, Steph. Did you happen to notice the cheerleaders who thanked Londoner for his/her response?

 

[FA_Q2]

The PA was passed while the images of the Towers was very fresh in every ones mind.

So yeah, a lot of people that oppose it now, supported it then.

were humans

What is the excuse to keep doing it?

nothing. There is no excuse for anyone to keep supporting such a breach in our Constitutional rights.

Bush did it
You supported it once
why are you still
libs were against it when bush..
etc etc


No American should support the PA for any reason.

This is a good point. A LOT of people simply lost their minds when 9/11 happened. Now we are paying for that transgression.

No one should support the PA and flipping from support earlier shows that you (in the general sense, not you specifically) have regained your sanity. Those that did support such made a mistake and admitting that is not wrong or a bad thing.

On that same note, those that bash people not supporting the PA because they THINK (because they have no idea what those people thought in ’06) that they supported it then is, in essence, supporting it now. Many have CLAIMED that they are against the patriot act in one post and then spend 100 bashing others that oppose it. When you do this, your opposition rings hollow. If you really do oppose the PA then simply acknowledge that others have regained their sanity and joined you in your opposition otherwise such opposition is simply a falsehood.

 

[gallantwarrior]

The PA was passed while the images of the Towers was very fresh in every ones mind.

So yeah, a lot of people that oppose it now, supported it then.

were humans

What is the excuse to keep doing it?

nothing. There is no excuse for anyone to keep supporting such a breach in our Constitutional rights.

Bush did it
You supported it once
why are you still
libs were against it when bush..
etc etc


No American should support the PA for any reason.

Here we go again with the hypocrisy. The same bunch who claim that when Bush "did it" their panties were bunched so tightly they could taste the skid marks are using the fact that Bush "did it" to excuse and approve of their fearful leader and his administration doubling down on bad policy. Bush did it and it was horrific, Obama does it and it's all good. What makes these unconstitutional actions OK for this administration when the same actions by the former administration elicit cries for war crimes trials but the current bunch of criminals can do no wrong?

Where's the liberal outrage now?

 

[Seawytch]

...."We are under attack" from Islamic terrorists, he told Fox News. "It is happening in our own backyard, and I am glad that NSA is trying to find out what terrorists are up to overseas and inside the country."...

Page 2: The Government?s Phone, Text, and Email Spying, Explained - ABC News


In spite of all the outrage and hyperbole coming from the right, here's one of their own revealing the truth about what they REALLY think.

Oh please. There's no hope for Lindsay Graham. Hopefully, the next primary will take care of that decadent fop.

Decadent Fop...that's awesome. I use "southern Belle", but might have to replace it with decadent fop. Thanks!!!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

...."We are under attack" from Islamic terrorists, he told Fox News. "It is happening in our own backyard, and I am glad that NSA is trying to find out what terrorists are up to overseas and inside the country."...

Page 2: The Government?s Phone, Text, and Email Spying, Explained - ABC News


In spite of all the outrage and hyperbole coming from the right, here's one of their own revealing the truth about what they REALLY think.

The right is not trying to get the NSA to stop, the left is.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

...."We are under attack" from Islamic terrorists, he told Fox News. "It is happening in our own backyard, and I am glad that NSA is trying to find out what terrorists are up to overseas and inside the country."...

Page 2: The Government?s Phone, Text, and Email Spying, Explained - ABC News


In spite of all the outrage and hyperbole coming from the right, here's one of their own revealing the truth about what they REALLY think.

In order for conservatives to be consistent they must condemn Graham as aggressively as they have Obama.

That won’t happen, of course.

When did the right condemn Obama over the NSA spying thing?

 

[PaulS1950]

No American should support commercial flying, busses or ferries until they stop the unlawful searches by the TSA. The patriot act should be discarded and forever remembered as a really bad reaction to a terrorist threat.

When will people learn that you can't stop criminal behavior with more laws? we have laws that cover everything that has happened in the last 50 years yet we keep adding more that the criminals don't pay attention to. Maybe we should prosecute the criminals to the full extent of the laws we already have instead of plea-bargaining and letting them out of jail early for good behavior. If their behavior was so good how did they get put in jail?

 

[Avatar4321]

Um, let's review.

They have my phone records, emails and credit card transactions but they can't stop the Boston Bombers even after Putin drop a dime on them to Obama.

USA, R.I.P

They couldn't find the Boston Bombers because that's not who they are watching for with all the eavesdropping. They aren't trying to stop terrorism with this. They are trying to control people.

 

[Two Thumbs]

The PA was passed while the images of the Towers was very fresh in every ones mind.

So yeah, a lot of people that oppose it now, supported it then.

were humans

What is the excuse to keep doing it?

nothing. There is no excuse for anyone to keep supporting such a breach in our Constitutional rights.

Bush did it
You supported it once
why are you still
libs were against it when bush..
etc etc


No American should support the PA for any reason.

This is a good point. A LOT of people simply lost their minds when 9/11 happened. Now we are paying for that transgression.

No one should support the PA and flipping from support earlier shows that you (in the general sense, not you specifically) have regained your sanity. Those that did support such made a mistake and admitting that is not wrong or a bad thing.

On that same note, those that bash people not supporting the PA because they THINK (because they have no idea what those people thought in ’06) that they supported it then is, in essence, supporting it now. Many have CLAIMED that they are against the patriot act in one post and then spend 100 bashing others that oppose it. When you do this, your opposition rings hollow. If you really do oppose the PA then simply acknowledge that others have regained their sanity and joined you in your opposition otherwise such opposition is simply a falsehood.

ok....

The PA was the last straw for me, once I fully read it and realized what it could do.

Late 2002 I stopped being a rep b/c I couldn't find anyone that was a dem, that was against it.

 

[Two Thumbs]

The PA was passed while the images of the Towers was very fresh in every ones mind.

So yeah, a lot of people that oppose it now, supported it then.

were humans

What is the excuse to keep doing it?

nothing. There is no excuse for anyone to keep supporting such a breach in our Constitutional rights.

Bush did it
You supported it once
why are you still
libs were against it when bush..
etc etc


No American should support the PA for any reason.

Here we go again with the hypocrisy. The same bunch who claim that when Bush "did it" their panties were bunched so tightly they could taste the skid marks are using the fact that Bush "did it" to excuse and approve of their fearful leader and his administration doubling down on bad policy. Bush did it and it was horrific, Obama does it and it's all good. What makes these unconstitutional actions OK for this administration when the same actions by the former administration elicit cries for war crimes trials but the current bunch of criminals can do no wrong?

Where's the liberal outrage now?

don't know.

I was sure that he went 4 years with it would have come up during his re-election.

















Kidding, I knew nothing important would have come up then

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Another Authoritarian Pig to be judged by the Guillotine.