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Of course.
On this very board several posters have said they don't have a problem with the Patriot Act or President Bush's use of it. What they have a problem with is President Obama and the Patriot Act.
Shit don't work that way.
Either it works for both..or it works for neither.
really? you went back on the Bush years on the board?
why can't you just comment on what your dear leader is doing instead of dragging other people in to this...
No.
They are actually stating this today.
Check out Flopper's posts. A couple of others have said the same things. They like the law. They don't like the President.
The right cant be collectively outraged at programs initiated by a republican president and republican Congress and currently supported by many republicans and conservatives, such as Graham.
In fact, with regard to the FISA Amendments Act Reauthorization Act of 2012, 97% of House republicans voted to reauthorize, and 93% of Senate republicans.
H.R. 5949 (112th): FISA Amendments Act Reauthorization Act of 2012 (On Passage of the Bill) -- GovTrack.us
Clearly this is only about the rights efforts to attack Obama, having little to do with concerns about Americans privacy.
Of course.
On this very board several posters have said they don't have a problem with the Patriot Act or President Bush's use of it. What they have a problem with is President Obama and the Patriot Act.
Shit don't work that way.
Either it works for both..or it works for neither.
really? you went back on the Bush years on the board?
why can't you just comment on what your dear leader is doing instead of dragging other people in to this...
Remember when Bush called Democrats the enemy and spied on the AP and send the IRS after Soros
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...."We are under attack" from Islamic terrorists, he told Fox News. "It is happening in our own backyard, and I am glad that NSA is trying to find out what terrorists are up to overseas and inside the country."...
Page 2: The Government?s Phone, Text, and Email Spying, Explained - ABC News
In spite of all the outrage and hyperbole coming from the right, here's one of their own revealing the truth about what they REALLY think.
That is what HE really thinks. Get it right for a change, eh?...."We are under attack" from Islamic terrorists, he told Fox News. "It is happening in our own backyard, and I am glad that NSA is trying to find out what terrorists are up to overseas and inside the country."...
Page 2: The Government?s Phone, Text, and Email Spying, Explained - ABC News
In spite of all the outrage and hyperbole coming from the right, here's one of their own revealing the truth about what they REALLY think.
...."We are under attack" from Islamic terrorists, he told Fox News. "It is happening in our own backyard, and I am glad that NSA is trying to find out what terrorists are up to overseas and inside the country."...
Page 2: The Government?s Phone, Text, and Email Spying, Explained - ABC News
In spite of all the outrage and hyperbole coming from the right, here's one of their own revealing the truth about what they REALLY think.
The right cant be collectively outraged at programs initiated by a republican president and republican Congress and currently supported by many republicans and conservatives, such as Graham.
In fact, with regard to the FISA Amendments Act Reauthorization Act of 2012, 97% of House republicans voted to reauthorize, and 93% of Senate republicans.
H.R. 5949 (112th): FISA Amendments Act Reauthorization Act of 2012 (On Passage of the Bill) -- GovTrack.us
Clearly this is only about the rights efforts to attack Obama, having little to do with concerns about Americans privacy.
...."We are under attack" from Islamic terrorists, he told Fox News. "It is happening in our own backyard, and I am glad that NSA is trying to find out what terrorists are up to overseas and inside the country."...
Page 2: The Government?s Phone, Text, and Email Spying, Explained - ABC News
In spite of all the outrage and hyperbole coming from the right, here's one of their own revealing the truth about what they REALLY think.
And these are the people I hoped would re-instate the Constitution.
and to think; cons and TP are mocked for wanting to get rid of people like this.
Desperate times call for desperate distortions. The left wing hypocrites were outraged that Bush was monitoring targeted selected overseas conversations but now it's fine that the Obama administration monitors everyone. The "intelligence" A-holes who are so interested in our conversations and E-mail couldn't even find a terrorist in Boston when the Russians gave them the names.
Of course.
On this very board several posters have said they don't have a problem with the Patriot Act or President Bush's use of it. What they have a problem with is President Obama and the Patriot Act.
Shit don't work that way.
Either it works for both..or it works for neither.
really? you went back on the Bush years on the board?
why can't you just comment on what your dear leader is doing instead of dragging other people in to this...
No.
They are actually stating this today.
Check out Flopper's posts. A couple of others have said the same things. They like the law. They don't like the President.
Desperate times call for
I'll agree with that as long as you agree that the right wing is just as guilty of hypocrisy for being outraged that Obama is doing this but was fine when Bush was. :
Except "Bush" wasn't doing it so STFU.
Bush was actually doing it illegally. When the story first came to light he didn't have approval from the courts or Congress for tapping the phones and collecting data on Americans. He was literally in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and his attorney general, Ashcroft, told him so. The NSA under Obama is doing it under the fully sanctioned auspices of the US Congress and the courts. This is actually more disturbing because it means that we allowed an extremely dangerous program to become law. Of course, it became law under Bush and the Republicans (like so many anti-constitutional power grabs). And of course it was sheepishly followed by the weak Democrats who are afraid of appearing week on national defense.
Here is a good legal journal (link below) about the constitutional problems that Bush created with his illegal wiretapping scheme. This essay was created by a right wing/libertarian think tank.
http://ccrjustice.org/files/CCR_100days_Wiretapping.pdf
I really dislike both the law and the current occupant of the Oval Office. What's that make me?
I really dislike both the law and the current occupant of the Oval Office. What's that make me?
Problem is, we needed you to dislike the law enough to oppose your president when he created, and then we needed to you to oppose your party and talk radio message system when they intimidated critics of the policy by calling them terrorist sympathizers
Desperate times call for desperate distortions. The left wing hypocrites were outraged that Bush was monitoring targeted selected overseas conversations but now it's fine that the Obama administration monitors everyone. The "intelligence" A-holes who are so interested in our conversations and E-mail couldn't even find a terrorist in Boston when the Russians gave them the names.
First, I agree with you about leftwing hypocrisy. Obama should be fiercely criticized by the left for not having the courage to unwind the Bush surveillance state. Of course, we know what would happen if Obama undermined the law-enforcement overreach that Bush created to fight terrorism. The right would call him soft on terrorism. I don't care, I think this is the perfect thing to do in your second term when you're not running again.
Second, this program is the same NSA program that was approved in 2006, and several times thereafter. It focuses on meta-data. It flags any phone/email originating in this country to a suspicious number/email overseas - then it kicks "suspicious" ones up for further analysis. They don't listen to every call or read every email.
However, I agree with Ron Paul. When Bush created this massive centralized surveillance power, he forgot one thing: this power would be used by flawed human beings. It would be used by people who might have an agenda. It would be used by people who do not have the information or competence to use this power effectively.
You will recall what happened to Elliot Spitzer. Spitzer made a scathing critique of Bush's role in the Wall Street meltdown, especially Bush's relationship to AIG which was one of the principal players in the derivative meltdown. Then, the Bush Fed used the Patriot Act to track his finances until they got him doing something wrong. This maneuver is straight from the playbook of the old Soviet Union which strategically used national-security-threats to concentrate massive surveillance power in the hands of the state. Then, once in place, the Soviet intelligence apparatus used that power to selectively hunt and remove the domestic political opposition. [this is why an earlier generation of Republicans would never have allowed such a dangerous concentration of power in the hands of the federal government; and this is why the Republican voter who allowed Bush to create these extremely dangerous tools in the first place should be laughed at for being a pawn of the Limbaugh/Hannity bubble – a bubble where naïve and heavily manipulated patriots were fed constant overblown terror alerts so that they would go along with the Bush surveillance state. Terrorism under Bush became a method for concentrating power and money inside the hands of bureaucrats]
This is why the Democrats should be angry at Obama for not destroying what Bush created. Liberals should realize that the mere fact that such concentrated power exists in the hands of the state means that every American is more at risk than they were before the power was created. The state now has increased power to watch every free citizen and selectively hunt groups it doesn't like. This is why Libertarians don't like centralized power, because the originators of such power cannot control how future administrations will use it. They cannot control how this concentrated power will over generations.
An important question arises from this problem. Which party does America depend on to limit the power of government? Answer: the Republicans. Therefore, the fact that the Republicans created and unleashed this power on the American people is tragic. And the fact that Republican voters didn't make a peep at the greatest federal power grab in my lifetime is just fucking poetic.
But, again, let's be clear. If Obama tried to unwind the surveillance provisions within the Patriot Act, Dick Cheney would be on FOXNews the next day calling him soft on terrorism. And then there would be an attack, however small and random, and Republicans would say that the country absolutely needs the Bush surveillance date. Given an Obama is a lame duck, and given that the Republicans are not gonna let him pass anything including legislation that was first proposed by a Republican, Obama should do what he promised and get rid of the Bush surveillance date.
really? you went back on the Bush years on the board?
why can't you just comment on what your dear leader is doing instead of dragging other people in to this...
No.
They are actually stating this today.
Check out Flopper's posts. A couple of others have said the same things. They like the law. They don't like the President.
I really dislike both the law and the current occupant of the Oval Office. What's that make me?
