Lindsey Lohan: Sincere or Sociopath?

[Big Fitz]

here's another little truism for you to suck on.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Santayana

Please, post your opinions, but don't expect anyone to believe your opinion(s) is/are based on anything but your biases.

I find it interesting that liberals like to make judgments on who will and will not believe another poster. I've seen more than enough of you libs fall sucker for Media Matters and Huffpo 'news' to know you don't know who will believe what. To be more cynical... "There's one born every minute." P. T. Barnum

I'm sure also my 'believers' here will understand what I meant by the Barnum quote.

 

[geauxtohell]

So right Fitz. Most of the "legalize marijuana" posts I've seen on this board include all drugs. Drug abuse is not a victimless crime.

99% of all pot legalizers are in themselves potheads, hence their desire for it.

Sociopath? C'mon.

Very possble. I use the term Sociopath in that she has exhibited no true emotions, but has endeavored to manipulate the system by pretending them. The cultural dictionary defines it thus:

Cultural Dictionary
sociopath [( soh -see-uh-path, soh -shee-uh-path)]

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.

I think if this was an act, this term defines her quite well, and if I am right, she needs far more help than just drug rehab. If lucky though, this behavior is only because of her addiction. Sometimes the victim in the 'victimless crime' is the perpetrator themselves.

I was thinking more along the lines of sociopath as in "antisocial personality disorder".

Lohan is not that.

Ted Bundy was.

Lohan might be more of a borderline personality. I don't know though. I suspect only her shrink really knows what her deal is. I suspect, like a lot of people with substance abuse problems, she has lost her ability to logic reasonably when it comes to getting her fix.

 

[syrenn]

I think the problem is that she is a spoiled brat.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think the problem is that she is a spoiled brat.

Well being a spoiled brat probably contributed to the rebellious activity that led to her addictions. But I would be very surprised if her addictions and resulting substance abuse are not now causing most of her problems.

 

[Ringel05]

I know the name but only from the news. I have no idea who she is or why she even rates air time, especially where the news is supposedly purveyed.

She was the nicer girl in Mean Girls.. Tina Fey wrote the screenplay for that.

Never heard of it. A movie?

 

[Sarah G]

I know the name but only from the news. I have no idea who she is or why she even rates air time, especially where the news is supposedly purveyed.

She was the nicer girl in Mean Girls.. Tina Fey wrote the screenplay for that.

Never heard of it. A movie?

Yeah, a teen girl movie. She isn't very old to be in this much trouble financially, physically and mentally. She was such a pretty little thing and sweet but you can never tell what they've been through. What they're trying to escape.

I just looked it up and she's 24.

 

[editec]

Which is worse?

The childish addict actress, or the nobodies taking pleasure being outraged by her?

Hard to say, isn't it?

 

[chanel]

LEAVE LINDSEY ALONE!!!

My dimestore diagnosis:

Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition in which there is an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with one's self.

Symptoms

A person with narcissistic personality disorder:

* Reacts to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation
* Takes advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals
* Has feelings of self-importance
* Exaggerates achievements and talents
* Is preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
* Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
* Requires constant attention and admiration
* Disregards the feelings of others, lacks empathy
* Has obsessive self-interest
* Pursues mainly selfish goals

She just fired her long time lawyer. Or else she quit. Can't blame her there.

 

[geauxtohell]

LEAVE LINDSEY ALONE!!!

My dimestore diagnosis:

Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition in which there is an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with one's self.

Symptoms

A person with narcissistic personality disorder:

* Reacts to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation
* Takes advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals
* Has feelings of self-importance
* Exaggerates achievements and talents
* Is preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
* Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
* Requires constant attention and admiration
* Disregards the feelings of others, lacks empathy
* Has obsessive self-interest
* Pursues mainly selfish goals

She just fired her long time lawyer. Or else she quit. Can't blame her there.

I don't think she's NPD either, though all the cluster B personality disorders tend to run together.

I think if you removed the substance abuse, you'd have a relatively normal adult (as normal as any star can be).

Whatever is wrong with her, it's a shame. Like her or not, she was talented. She was hilarious in "Mean Girls".

 

[chanel]

I agree. Narcissism may be necessary to make it in Hollywood. It makes me sad that she is throwing her life away. Looks, talent, etc.

Drugs have made her virtually unemployable.

 

[strollingbones]

How Drug Legalization Would Cut Crime

and the flip side:

The Experience of Foreign Countries and Drug Legalization

 

[chanel]

The drugs she was taking were legal.

The probation officer's report shows Lohan has been taking a variety of medications. They include Adderall, which is used to treat attention hyperactivity disorder, and the powerful prescription painkiller Dilaudid, which the report indicated was for Lohan's "dental pain."

Lohan has also been taking the antidepressants Zoloft and Trazadone and Nexium, a heartburn treatment.

Lohan had valid prescriptions for all the medications, the report stated. It does not indicate the quantities or how often the actress takes the medications.

Legal or illegal - substance abuse is not a victimless crime.

 

[Big Fitz]

Which is worse?

The childish addict actress, or the nobodies taking pleasure being outraged by her?

Hard to say, isn't it?

I vote for the dullards who lack ethical character passively approving of such horrid behavior from a 'privileged few' as long as it doesn't interfere with their lives.

Small reminder then... you're a nobody too, to them.

 

[Big Fitz]

The drugs she was taking were legal.

The probation officer's report shows Lohan has been taking a variety of medications. They include Adderall, which is used to treat attention hyperactivity disorder, and the powerful prescription painkiller Dilaudid, which the report indicated was for Lohan's "dental pain."

Lohan has also been taking the antidepressants Zoloft and Trazadone and Nexium, a heartburn treatment.

Lohan had valid prescriptions for all the medications, the report stated. It does not indicate the quantities or how often the actress takes the medications.

Legal or illegal - substance abuse is not a victimless crime.

And prescription shopping for a celebrity is pretty damn easy. Michael Jackson had no problem getting drugs prescribed to him that he should never have had. I suppose because she hasn't died yet makes it excusable?

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, addiction in a juvenile arrests emotional development which makes it much more difficult for a person to acquire the maturity to recognize their problem for what it is. Lindsay was getting in trouble as a teenager and most addictions are progressive diseases that sometimes seem to get better, but will always get worse in an uneven downward spiral. So now she is still a child in a 24-year-old body.

There are "bottoms" along the way in which the person is miserable or frightened enough along with being rational enough to realize they are screwing up and need help. But if they do not get help at such times, that window of opportunity quickly closes and the insanity returns and the disease progresses until the next bottom is hit.

Treatment can create a "bottom" and the person does get clean and sober. But if they lack the maturity to stay with the program to stay that way, they are very susceptible to reverting to the old patterns once they return to their old life. And again, that is all too often the pattern when the addiction began in adolescence.

Which is all the more reason to be aware of the real dangers for our kids and do what we can or must to educate them early and create an enviroment in which the use of those substances by kids is socially unacceptable and unattractive.

I always hope the pain and suffering of somebody like Lindsay Lohan will raise awareness. Alas, because we are in a culture that promotes such behavior and wants to believe that it is okay, we don't deal with it and just change the subject.

But in the past the pendulum swung back the other way. I think we may be approaching a time that is ripe for that to happen.

 

[geauxtohell]

I agree. Narcissism may be necessary to make it in Hollywood. It makes me sad that she is throwing her life away. Looks, talent, etc.

Drugs have made her virtually unemployable.

Most people have a degree of narcissism. In fact, if someone wasn't a little bit narcissistic they would be a horrible drag. It doesn't become a personality disorder until it is so pervasive that it disrupts their day to day routines.

A true NPD is very rare. So is a histrionic personality disorder. I had a patient I suspected was a NPD (though there was no official diagnosis) and his level of esteem and grandiosity was so extreme that it bordered on the bizarre and resulted in weird demands.

I am not a shrink, but I think the common wisdom is that you can't diagnose any organic psychological condition when someone is hooked on a drug (be it booze or alcohol) since you can't discern what is caused by the brain and what is caused by the drug's effect on the brain.

 

[geauxtohell]

The drugs she was taking were legal.

The probation officer's report shows Lohan has been taking a variety of medications. They include Adderall, which is used to treat attention hyperactivity disorder, and the powerful prescription painkiller Dilaudid, which the report indicated was for Lohan's "dental pain."

Lohan has also been taking the antidepressants Zoloft and Trazadone and Nexium, a heartburn treatment.

Lohan had valid prescriptions for all the medications, the report stated. It does not indicate the quantities or how often the actress takes the medications.

Legal or illegal - substance abuse is not a victimless crime.

Oh lord. Dilauded is a high power opiate narcotic (much more powerful than vicoden and percocet). We try and limit it's use in an inpatient setting. With the exception of patients with sickle cell anemia, most doctors won't give it for outpatient use. Using dilauded with trazadone is dangerous.

Chronic dilauded use for dental pain? That's just absurd.

 

[Big Fitz]

Most people have a degree of narcissism. In fact, if someone wasn't a little bit narcissistic they would be a horrible drag. It doesn't become a personality disorder until it is so pervasive that it disrupts their day to day routines.

It's that touch of narcissism as well as hypocrisy that allows we humans to actually live with ourselves. But as long as it is a small dose instead of the great big whopping dollops too many celebrities and politicians have (they aren't the only ones of course) that makes it such a problem. After all what is Narcissus known for? Self love. Not THAT kind you perv!

I am not a shrink, but I think the common wisdom is that you can't diagnose any organic psychological condition when someone is hooked on a drug (be it booze or alcohol) since you can't discern what is caused by the brain and what is caused by the drug's effect on the brain.

Chicken and Egg conundrum... yeah I can see that.

Oh lord. Dilauded is a high power opiate narcotic (much more powerful than vicoden and percocet). We try and limit it's use in an inpatient setting. With the exception of patients with sickle cell anemia, most doctors won't give it for outpatient use. Using dilauded with trazadone is dangerous.

Chronic dilauded use for dental pain? That's just absurd.

Sounds like a few doctors maybe losing their licenses. I keep remembering the first time I learned about Brett Favre's painkiller addiction back in the mid 90's going wow... that's just crazy! I understand how easy it is to get hooked... but that's a football player taking extremely heavy shots from guys half again his size. A little 100lbs nothing who has never encountered physical duress or pain beyond a hang nail or self induced plastic surgery... really... is there a need for such extremes?

In a way, that has me wondering if she is not a victim of the bad behavior of pandering doctors who wish to keep her coming back prescribing her the 'good stuff' instead of that 'crap they give to nobodies'. I really think there is a possibility that the vanity of others has been evidenced in her life too by either enabling or pandering. Muddies the chicken and egg question all the further. After all, her mother is no prize pig, and definitely no guardian of her meal ticket.

 

[geauxtohell]

Most people have a degree of narcissism. In fact, if someone wasn't a little bit narcissistic they would be a horrible drag. It doesn't become a personality disorder until it is so pervasive that it disrupts their day to day routines.

It's that touch of narcissism as well as hypocrisy that allows we humans to actually live with ourselves. But as long as it is a small dose instead of the great big whopping dollops too many celebrities and politicians have (they aren't the only ones of course) that makes it such a problem. After all what is Narcissus known for? Self love. Not THAT kind you perv!

I am not a shrink, but I think the common wisdom is that you can't diagnose any organic psychological condition when someone is hooked on a drug (be it booze or alcohol) since you can't discern what is caused by the brain and what is caused by the drug's effect on the brain.

Chicken and Egg conundrum... yeah I can see that.

Oh lord. Dilauded is a high power opiate narcotic (much more powerful than vicoden and percocet). We try and limit it's use in an inpatient setting. With the exception of patients with sickle cell anemia, most doctors won't give it for outpatient use. Using dilauded with trazadone is dangerous.

Chronic dilauded use for dental pain? That's just absurd.

Sounds like a few doctors maybe losing their licenses. I keep remembering the first time I learned about Brett Favre's painkiller addiction back in the mid 90's going wow... that's just crazy! I understand how easy it is to get hooked... but that's a football player taking extremely heavy shots from guys half again his size. A little 100lbs nothing who has never encountered physical duress or pain beyond a hang nail or self induced plastic surgery... really... is there a need for such extremes?

In a way, that has me wondering if she is not a victim of the bad behavior of pandering doctors who wish to keep her coming back prescribing her the 'good stuff' instead of that 'crap they give to nobodies'. I really think there is a possibility that the vanity of others has been evidenced in her life too by either enabling or pandering. Muddies the chicken and egg question all the further. After all, her mother is no prize pig, and definitely no guardian of her meal ticket.

People often mix up "personality" with "personality disorders". We all have a personality and we all have a degree of good and bad. If you were to take every single facet of the personality and make a thousand linear lines with 100% one way and 0% the other, every person would have an individual plot on each line. That combined total would simply be the person we are.

A personality doesn't become a disorder until it is disruptive to themselves and others (I mean really disruptive). If you've ever met a true NPD, you probably wrote them off long ago. I've made this point before when people accuse Obama of having a "malignant personality disorder". Damn right he's somewhat narcissistic. Damn right all politicians are. Would you really vote for someone who had no self confidence? Of course not.

Dilauded is hydromorphone. As far as opiates are concerned, it's very close to morphine (as opposed to vicoden that is cut with acetominophen). Like I said, short of a chronic condition like sickle cell anemia, I can't imagine any reason for using it on an outpatient basis. That's just sloppy (IMO).

Compound that with the fact that Lohan has an obvious polysubtance abuse problem, and whoever the Doctor is that wrote that script is a bonehead.

I don't think most people realize that the drugs they can get from a Doctor can be much more addictive and destructive than "illegal" drugs (fentanyl is 1000 times more potent than heroin).

I'll spare you my narcotics rant. Needless to say, I think a shocking number of Americans are hooked to prescription narcs that they get legally from a physician.

At any rate, if she's addicted to dilauded and using trazadone, she most likely won't make it another ten years. She is going to sedate herself to death.

 

[Foxfyre]

I agree. Narcissism may be necessary to make it in Hollywood. It makes me sad that she is throwing her life away. Looks, talent, etc.

Drugs have made her virtually unemployable.

Most people have a degree of narcissism. In fact, if someone wasn't a little bit narcissistic they would be a horrible drag. It doesn't become a personality disorder until it is so pervasive that it disrupts their day to day routines.

A true NPD is very rare. So is a histrionic personality disorder. I had a patient I suspected was a NPD (though there was no official diagnosis) and his level of esteem and grandiosity was so extreme that it bordered on the bizarre and resulted in weird demands.

I am not a shrink, but I think the common wisdom is that you can't diagnose any organic psychological condition when someone is hooked on a drug (be it booze or alcohol) since you can't discern what is caused by the brain and what is caused by the drug's effect on the brain.

You don't have to be a shrink to know that getting clean and sober does not turn a person into a saint or fix all their personality problems. It is, however, a necessary requisite in order to be able to work on those other problems. As long as the person is still addicted, enabling and feeding that addiction will be his/her primary focus, and he or she is unlikely to be able to be fully rational about any issues.