Lockdown Fans: What Is Your Endgame Plan?

[Polishprince]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.
2. From there, with the proper increase in testing, contact tracing, and isolation, then the economy can begin to slowly open up.
3. The rate of new virus cases should be low enough that testers and contact tracers can research and control each case including isolating anyone that came in contact with the positively infected person.
4. This low level of daily new cases and large scale testing and contact tracing, will then make it safe to begin to reopen parts of the economy that are closed.
5. But the United States needs to hire about 200,000 contact tracers and train them.
6. Testing must be increased.
7. Those isolated must be given a place to live away from other people but with their basic needs supplied for 2 to 4 weeks.

The lockdowns would not have been necessary to this degree if we had simply done what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020. On that date, the blocked all travel from anywhere into the country. Citizens were only let in when they could be tested and had to be isolated for 2 to 4 weeks before they could have physical contact with other people.

The results are that TAIWAN has only had 440 cases, and 6 deaths. There are currently only 79 active cases in Taiwan which are contained their testing, contact tracing and isolation. By June, Taiwan will likely be free of the virus and will be able to lift more restrictions. Schools were able to remain open in Taiwan as well as restaurants.

How could Trump ban entry to the US by dozens of countries carrying a virus that is nothing but the common flu, a democrat hoax?

Taiwan did it right as did South Korea and New Zealand. Each of these countries were successful and each did it a bit different. However what each of these countries had was a plan to respond to a pandemic which went into operation before the first case was reported in their country. What the Trump administration did not understand is you can't begin planning for a pandemic after it arrives and have any chance of success. There are simply too many different entries involved in the private and public sector at the local, state, and national level to plan as you go. From the time the virus arrives, it spreads exponentially. The time for planing is gone after the first case is confirmed.

Taiwan and New Zealand are islands, and South Korea might as well be- their only border is the very tight , short one with North Korea.

There is no comparison between those countries and America with wide open borders.

 

[Flopper]

Americans, by a large 30-point margin, are resistant to re-opening the country now, believing the risk to human life of opening the country outweighs the economic toll of remaining under restrictive lockdowns -- a concern that starkly divides along partisan lines, according to a new ABC News/Ipsos released Friday. ​

It's not the only poll showing this result either. I know, I know, you've been programmed to disregard any information you don't want to be true but your confirmation bias is not my problem.

The polls only indicate that the 24/7 news cycle of alarmism regarding the corona panic has swayed the opinion of a lot of people.

As people see things open up in Georgia, in Mississippi and other forward thinking parts of the country, their opinions will change. And that's why radicals on the coast are fighting the efforts of people in the interior to get back to normalcy.

Yeah, people aren't as dumb as you. When they see the virus spike in places like Georgia it's going to be painfully obvious why.

What "spike?"

Georgia cases are increasing. Wait for the spike because with their economy allegedly opening the outcome is going to be pretty obvious. Georgia already has more cases and deaths per capita than California by almost double.

I'm sure you hope that will be the case, but my guess is that the opening of the Great State of Georgia will occur with no particular problems at all, leading other states to follow suit. Maybe not Far Left New York, but other, forward thinking states.

Increased infections do not show up the first day and possible not the first week or first month. It takes time for customers to come back and it takes time for people to start relaxing restrictions and falling into their old habits. We won't have a clear picture of both the health and economic issues for at least a month.

 

[Flopper]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.
2. From there, with the proper increase in testing, contact tracing, and isolation, then the economy can begin to slowly open up.
3. The rate of new virus cases should be low enough that testers and contact tracers can research and control each case including isolating anyone that came in contact with the positively infected person.
4. This low level of daily new cases and large scale testing and contact tracing, will then make it safe to begin to reopen parts of the economy that are closed.
5. But the United States needs to hire about 200,000 contact tracers and train them.
6. Testing must be increased.
7. Those isolated must be given a place to live away from other people but with their basic needs supplied for 2 to 4 weeks.

The lockdowns would not have been necessary to this degree if we had simply done what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020. On that date, the blocked all travel from anywhere into the country. Citizens were only let in when they could be tested and had to be isolated for 2 to 4 weeks before they could have physical contact with other people.

The results are that TAIWAN has only had 440 cases, and 6 deaths. There are currently only 79 active cases in Taiwan which are contained their testing, contact tracing and isolation. By June, Taiwan will likely be free of the virus and will be able to lift more restrictions. Schools were able to remain open in Taiwan as well as restaurants.

How could Trump ban entry to the US by dozens of countries carrying a virus that is nothing but the common flu, a democrat hoax?

Taiwan did it right as did South Korea and New Zealand. Each of these countries were successful and each did it a bit different. However what each of these countries had was a plan to respond to a pandemic which went into operation before the first case was reported in their country. What the Trump administration did not understand is you can't begin planning for a pandemic after it arrives and have any chance of success. There are simply too many different entries involved in the private and public sector at the local, state, and national level to plan as you go. From the time the virus arrives, it spreads exponentially. The time for planing is gone after the first case is confirmed.

Taiwan and New Zealand are islands, and South Korea might as well be- their only border is the very tight , short one with North Korea.

There is no comparison between those countries and America with wide open borders.

Those issue only make advanced planning more important, certainly not less.

 

[sakinago]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

Herd Immunity for the virus is estimated at 60% of population has attained immunity. Assuming 17% of the population has been infected but is asymptomatic according to a study from antibody testing. These cases, about 56 million are not counted in current data. Thus we have approximately 1 million known cases and 56 million unknown that hope are immune. That leaves us 163 million cases and about 11 million deaths to go before we reach herd immunity without a vaccine. This of course assumes that humans develop an immunity longer than a few weeks which is so far unproven.

However the worst case is no vaccine and no long term immunity like the HIV virus. That means we will never reach herd immunity. We just have to live with it indefinitely. However, even this dark outcome has a silver lining. We won't have to be as concerned about global warming.

Jesus Christ listening to armchair scientist come up with their own models makes me want to bitch slap. Consider this a digital slap. SLAP. All vaccines do is alert immune systems to diseases the body has never experienced, to which the body uses its own immune system to fight the disease. Therefore, if no one is able to achieve longer than a 3 week immunity, a vaccine won’t work either. But guess what, that whole “we’re not sure you can’t get re-infected,” is nothing more than fear mongering. The supposed cases of “re-infection” are nothing more than false positives getting actually infected in the early serum testing that was wildly inaccurate. They produced false positives at a clip of about 10%. We have a pretty good understanding of the sections of genetic code that mutate, covid is nothing like HIV in terms of mutation. So the re-infection scare is utterly absurd and I can’t believe it is still being pushed and regurgitated.

What’s not a guarantee that’s not being talked about is whether we can create a vaccine safe enough for use. I mean it’s probably around a 70% chance they can create a safe enough one, but again not at all a guarantee. It all depends on if they can include base antigens without those causing an actual sickness themselves.

11 million deaths is an absolutely absurd number and I can’t even believe you wrote down. Even if this disease had a death rate of 3%, and every single American caught it, your only looking at around 9 million. We now know that it’s actually a good bit under 1%, my SAFE guess is probably around .6%. It’s probably much lower than that. So closer to 2 million deaths, as long as we have an assembly line of people laying in their backs with their mouths open on a conveyer belt, with infected people liberally spitting into their mouths to insure EVERYONE gets infected. However, believe it or not, no one is suggesting that. Not even the people advocating for going for herd Immunity. Going for herd immunity involves strict lockdowns for the at risk folks, while allowing the young and healthy to go out and catch this. The death rate for the young and healthy is about .001, essentially a statistical anomaly that can’t even be determined if it was caused by Covid or not. Yes a very very small sample have died with covid, but there’s probably some undiscovered underlying condition causing death that happens all the time. Say an undiscovered malformation in an artery that could throw off a clot in a 30 year old. Or an oversized heart that causes a heart attack in a young person. Happens at about the same rate as covid deaths in the young and healthy. Covid spreads nice and fast among the young people. We wait until it reaches around 80% of them infected, wait another month, then do a slow re-open for the at risk population. And at least 80% of the young and healthy infected will be asymptomatic. Another 15% will basically have the flu, and another MAYBE 5% will have a bad reaction but survive with simple medical treatment and few interventions necessary. Now is that unreasonable?

 

[bripat9643]

Americans, by a large 30-point margin, are resistant to re-opening the country now, believing the risk to human life of opening the country outweighs the economic toll of remaining under restrictive lockdowns -- a concern that starkly divides along partisan lines, according to a new ABC News/Ipsos released Friday. ​

It's not the only poll showing this result either. I know, I know, you've been programmed to disregard any information you don't want to be true but your confirmation bias is not my problem.

The polls only indicate that the 24/7 news cycle of alarmism regarding the corona panic has swayed the opinion of a lot of people.

As people see things open up in Georgia, in Mississippi and other forward thinking parts of the country, their opinions will change. And that's why radicals on the coast are fighting the efforts of people in the interior to get back to normalcy.

Yeah, people aren't as dumb as you. When they see the virus spike in places like Georgia it's going to be painfully obvious why.

What "spike?"

Georgia cases are increasing. Wait for the spike because with their economy allegedly opening the outcome is going to be pretty obvious. Georgia already has more cases and deaths per capita than California by almost double.

I'm sure you hope that will be the case, but my guess is that the opening of the Great State of Georgia will occur with no particular problems at all, leading other states to follow suit. Maybe not Far Left New York, but other, forward thinking states.

Increased infections do not show up the first day and possible not the first week or first month. It takes time for customers to come back and it takes time for people to start relaxing restrictions and falling into their old habits. We won't have a clear picture of both the health and economic issues for at least a month.

It's clear enough to know that the shutdown should end today. It should never have started. Putting the entire world in quarantine is pure insanity.

 

[bripat9643]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

Herd Immunity for the virus is estimated at 60% of population has attained immunity. Assuming 17% of the population has been infected but is asymptomatic according to a study from antibody testing. These cases, about 56 million are not counted in current data. Thus we have approximately 1 million known cases and 56 million unknown that hope are immune. That leaves us 163 million cases and about 11 million deaths to go before we reach herd immunity without a vaccine. This of course assumes that humans develop an immunity longer than a few weeks which is so far unproven.

However the worst case is no vaccine and no long term immunity like the HIV virus. That means we will never reach herd immunity. We just have to live with it indefinitely. However, even this dark outcome has a silver lining. We won't have to be as concerned about global warming.

Jesus Christ listening to armchair scientist come up with their own models makes me want to bitch slap. Consider this a digital slap. SLAP. All vaccines do is alert immune systems to diseases the body has never experienced, to which the body uses its own immune system to fight the disease. Therefore, if no one is able to achieve longer than a 3 week immunity, a vaccine won’t work either. But guess what, that whole “we’re not sure you can’t get re-infected,” is nothing more than fear mongering. The supposed cases of “re-infection” are nothing more than false positives getting actually infected in the early serum testing that was wildly inaccurate. They produced false positives at a clip of about 10%. We have a pretty good understanding of the sections of genetic code that mutate, covid is nothing like HIV in terms of mutation. So the re-infection scare is utterly absurd and I can’t believe it is still being pushed and regurgitated.

What’s not a guarantee that’s not being talked about is whether we can create a vaccine safe enough for use. I mean it’s probably around a 70% chance they can create a safe enough one, but again not at all a guarantee. It all depends on if they can include base antigens without those causing an actual sickness themselves.

11 million deaths is an absolutely absurd number and I can’t even believe you wrote down. Even if this disease had a death rate of 3%, and every single American caught it, your only looking at around 9 million. We now know that it’s actually a good bit under 1%, my SAFE guess is probably around .6%. It’s probably much lower than that. So closer to 2 million deaths, as long as we have an assembly line of people laying in their backs with their mouths open on a conveyer belt, with infected people liberally spitting into their mouths to insure EVERYONE gets infected. However, believe it or not, no one is suggesting that. Not even the people advocating for going for herd Immunity. Going for herd immunity involves strict lockdowns for the at risk folks, while allowing the young and healthy to go out and catch this. The death rate for the young and healthy is about .001, essentially a statistical anomaly that can’t even be determined if it was caused by Covid or not. Yes a very very small sample have died with covid, but there’s probably some undiscovered underlying condition causing death that happens all the time. Say an undiscovered malformation in an artery that could throw off a clot in a 30 year old. Or an oversized heart that causes a heart attack in a young person. Happens at about the same rate as covid deaths in the young and healthy. Covid spreads nice and fast among the young people. We wait until it reaches around 80% of them infected, wait another month, then do a slow re-open for the at risk population. And at least 80% of the young and healthy infected will be asymptomatic. Another 15% will basically have the flu, and another MAYBE 5% will have a bad reaction but survive with simple medical treatment and few interventions necessary. Now is that unreasonable?

The death rate for those infected is closer to 0.1%. That's what those doctors in Bakersfield determined.

 

[sakinago]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

A good place to start is when there are no new cases.

You couldn't figure that out all by yourself? Wow!

That will never happen

Not with our president.

Not with any president

Looks like South Korea, Singapore and other countries are flattening out that curve and reducing their numbers of active cases. Why can't Trump?

Let me know when the combined population numbers of those countries comes close to our actual population number....

There are no excuses for what has happened here. We are supposed to have the best medical facilities and equipment. Our situation was created by poor presidential leadership.

Obama created it? Yeah, we know.

We know what Obama did. He left a pandemic response team. We're living now with what trump is doing. 6 times the number of deaths than when Obama faced a pandemic and rising.

He also didn’t restock PPE after H1N1. And Ebola is no where near a pandemic. It was barely an epidemic. It was actually a very simple disease to contain, granted very deadly, but also very simple to contain. And guess what, Ebola infections still broke out in the US. All you had to do was not let people with bleeding eyes into the country, from a region where 95% of the people can’t afford to travel to the US. Very easy, but he failed.

 

[sakinago]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

Herd Immunity for the virus is estimated at 60% of population has attained immunity. Assuming 17% of the population has been infected but is asymptomatic according to a study from antibody testing. These cases, about 56 million are not counted in current data. Thus we have approximately 1 million known cases and 56 million unknown that hope are immune. That leaves us 163 million cases and about 11 million deaths to go before we reach herd immunity without a vaccine. This of course assumes that humans develop an immunity longer than a few weeks which is so far unproven.

However the worst case is no vaccine and no long term immunity like the HIV virus. That means we will never reach herd immunity. We just have to live with it indefinitely. However, even this dark outcome has a silver lining. We won't have to be as concerned about global warming.

Jesus Christ listening to armchair scientist come up with their own models makes me want to bitch slap. Consider this a digital slap. SLAP. All vaccines do is alert immune systems to diseases the body has never experienced, to which the body uses its own immune system to fight the disease. Therefore, if no one is able to achieve longer than a 3 week immunity, a vaccine won’t work either. But guess what, that whole “we’re not sure you can’t get re-infected,” is nothing more than fear mongering. The supposed cases of “re-infection” are nothing more than false positives getting actually infected in the early serum testing that was wildly inaccurate. They produced false positives at a clip of about 10%. We have a pretty good understanding of the sections of genetic code that mutate, covid is nothing like HIV in terms of mutation. So the re-infection scare is utterly absurd and I can’t believe it is still being pushed and regurgitated.

What’s not a guarantee that’s not being talked about is whether we can create a vaccine safe enough for use. I mean it’s probably around a 70% chance they can create a safe enough one, but again not at all a guarantee. It all depends on if they can include base antigens without those causing an actual sickness themselves.

11 million deaths is an absolutely absurd number and I can’t even believe you wrote down. Even if this disease had a death rate of 3%, and every single American caught it, your only looking at around 9 million. We now know that it’s actually a good bit under 1%, my SAFE guess is probably around .6%. It’s probably much lower than that. So closer to 2 million deaths, as long as we have an assembly line of people laying in their backs with their mouths open on a conveyer belt, with infected people liberally spitting into their mouths to insure EVERYONE gets infected. However, believe it or not, no one is suggesting that. Not even the people advocating for going for herd Immunity. Going for herd immunity involves strict lockdowns for the at risk folks, while allowing the young and healthy to go out and catch this. The death rate for the young and healthy is about .001, essentially a statistical anomaly that can’t even be determined if it was caused by Covid or not. Yes a very very small sample have died with covid, but there’s probably some undiscovered underlying condition causing death that happens all the time. Say an undiscovered malformation in an artery that could throw off a clot in a 30 year old. Or an oversized heart that causes a heart attack in a young person. Happens at about the same rate as covid deaths in the young and healthy. Covid spreads nice and fast among the young people. We wait until it reaches around 80% of them infected, wait another month, then do a slow re-open for the at risk population. And at least 80% of the young and healthy infected will be asymptomatic. Another 15% will basically have the flu, and another MAYBE 5% will have a bad reaction but survive with simple medical treatment and few interventions necessary. Now is that unreasonable?

The death rate for those infected is closer to 0.1%. That's what those doctors in Bakersfield determined.

That doesn’t surprise me at all. I think it’s probably a little higher, like .2-.4%. It does behavd very weirdly for the few that have bad reactions to it. But our death numbers are being skewed by counting deaths that probably should be attributed to something else. Anyone notice how deaths from heart attacks have magically dropped. Folks, heart attacks are still happening like they always do.

 

[Polishprince]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

Herd Immunity for the virus is estimated at 60% of population has attained immunity. Assuming 17% of the population has been infected but is asymptomatic according to a study from antibody testing. These cases, about 56 million are not counted in current data. Thus we have approximately 1 million known cases and 56 million unknown that hope are immune. That leaves us 163 million cases and about 11 million deaths to go before we reach herd immunity without a vaccine. This of course assumes that humans develop an immunity longer than a few weeks which is so far unproven.

However the worst case is no vaccine and no long term immunity like the HIV virus. That means we will never reach herd immunity. We just have to live with it indefinitely. However, even this dark outcome has a silver lining. We won't have to be as concerned about global warming.

Jesus Christ listening to armchair scientist come up with their own models makes me want to bitch slap. Consider this a digital slap. SLAP. All vaccines do is alert immune systems to diseases the body has never experienced, to which the body uses its own immune system to fight the disease. Therefore, if no one is able to achieve longer than a 3 week immunity, a vaccine won’t work either. But guess what, that whole “we’re not sure you can’t get re-infected,” is nothing more than fear mongering. The supposed cases of “re-infection” are nothing more than false positives getting actually infected in the early serum testing that was wildly inaccurate. They produced false positives at a clip of about 10%. We have a pretty good understanding of the sections of genetic code that mutate, covid is nothing like HIV in terms of mutation. So the re-infection scare is utterly absurd and I can’t believe it is still being pushed and regurgitated.

What’s not a guarantee that’s not being talked about is whether we can create a vaccine safe enough for use. I mean it’s probably around a 70% chance they can create a safe enough one, but again not at all a guarantee. It all depends on if they can include base antigens without those causing an actual sickness themselves.

11 million deaths is an absolutely absurd number and I can’t even believe you wrote down. Even if this disease had a death rate of 3%, and every single American caught it, your only looking at around 9 million. We now know that it’s actually a good bit under 1%, my SAFE guess is probably around .6%. It’s probably much lower than that. So closer to 2 million deaths, as long as we have an assembly line of people laying in their backs with their mouths open on a conveyer belt, with infected people liberally spitting into their mouths to insure EVERYONE gets infected. However, believe it or not, no one is suggesting that. Not even the people advocating for going for herd Immunity. Going for herd immunity involves strict lockdowns for the at risk folks, while allowing the young and healthy to go out and catch this. The death rate for the young and healthy is about .001, essentially a statistical anomaly that can’t even be determined if it was caused by Covid or not. Yes a very very small sample have died with covid, but there’s probably some undiscovered underlying condition causing death that happens all the time. Say an undiscovered malformation in an artery that could throw off a clot in a 30 year old. Or an oversized heart that causes a heart attack in a young person. Happens at about the same rate as covid deaths in the young and healthy. Covid spreads nice and fast among the young people. We wait until it reaches around 80% of them infected, wait another month, then do a slow re-open for the at risk population. And at least 80% of the young and healthy infected will be asymptomatic. Another 15% will basically have the flu, and another MAYBE 5% will have a bad reaction but survive with simple medical treatment and few interventions necessary. Now is that unreasonable?

The death rate for those infected is closer to 0.1%. That's what those doctors in Bakersfield determined.

That doesn’t surprise me at all. I think it’s probably a little higher, like .2-.4%. It does behavd very weirdly for the few that have bad reactions to it. But our death numbers are being skewed by counting deaths that probably should be attributed to something else. Anyone notice how deaths from heart attacks have magically dropped. Folks, heart attacks are still happening like they always do.

No, I didn't see the Heart Attack death figures, or the Emphysema death figures either, or Pneumonia figures. So I guess the death rate is being gamed on both ends. Adding deaths caused by other factors as well as not including all of the non-fatal COVID cases.

 

[Flopper]

The minimum proportion (%) of total population required to recover from COVID-19 to confer immunity for the US is estimated at 69%. Some countries are lower some are higher. Using this figure and a population 330 million, the require number of cases of covid 19 for herd immunity is 227 million.
From this we subtract the percent of the population (17.9%) that will have the virus without knowing it (59 million) leaving us with 168 million cases needed to reach herd immunity. Using a mortality rate of 5.9% of know cases to reach herd immunity (168 million) gives us the total number of deaths to reach herd immunity (9.9 million). This number deaths is not an absurd number. It is the number of deaths that would occur using the current mortality rate of known cases to reach herd immunity. A vaccine would reduce the number considerably and new treatments would also reduce the number of deaths. Also keep mind that there is no time limit. This virus could and probably will around for many years as will deaths due to it.

Herd immunity happens when so many people in a community become immune to an infectious disease that it stops the disease from spreading. In effect the disease is wiped out. This is the theory but in reality, a nation may never fully reach herd immunity and there will still be cases because all parts of the world and all parts of the country may have not reached herd immunity. In fact, the chances are that we would never reach that point. Since viruses are constantly changing, new strains of the virus will appear so the reality is the virus never get's wipe out entirely but its numbers maybe so small as to not be a major health problem.

Studies Finds Nearly Everyone Who Recovers From COVID-19 Makes Coronavirus Antibodies, so yes a vaccine could work. What we don't know is how long these antibodies stick around. It could be just weeks, years, or a lifetime.

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30154-7/pdf

http://med.stanford.edu/content/dam/sm/id/documents/COVID/AsymptCOVID_TransmissionShip.pdf

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[bripat9643]

Minimum proportion (%) of total population required to recover from COVID-19 to confer immunity for the US is estimated at 69%. Some countries are lower some are higher. Using this figure and a population 330 million, the require number of cases of covid 19 for herd immunity is 227 million.
From this we subtract the percent of the population (17.9%) that will have the virus without knowing it (59 million) leaving us with 168 million cases need to reach herd immunity. Using a mortality rate of 5.9% of know cases to reach herd immunity (168 million) gives us the total number of deaths to reach herd immunity (9.9 million)

Herd immunity happens when so many people in a community become immune to an infectious disease that it stops the disease from spreading. In effect the disease is wiped out. This is the theory but in reality, a nation may never fully reach herd immunity and there will still be cases because all parts of the world and all parts of the country may have not reached herd immunity. In fact, the chances are that we would never reach that point. Since viruses are constantly changing, new strains of the virus will appear so the reality is the virus never get's wipe out entirely but it numbers maybe so small as to not be a major health problem.

Studies Finds Nearly Everyone Who Recovers From COVID-19 Makes Coronavirus Antibodies, so yes a vaccine could work. What we don't know is how long these antibodies stick around. It could be just weeks, years, or a lifetime.

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30154-7/pdf

http://med.stanford.edu/content/dam/sm/id/documents/COVID/AsymptCOVID_TransmissionShip.pdf

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Where did you get this bullshit 69% figure? only 60 million people contrancted the swine flu by the time that epidemic ended. The rest of your math is obviously wrong since it's all founded on a false premise. You're mortaility rate of 5.9% is also blatantly false. You're posting bullshit propaganda.

 

[sakinago]

The minimum proportion (%) of total population required to recover from COVID-19 to confer immunity for the US is estimated at 69%. Some countries are lower some are higher. Using this figure and a population 330 million, the require number of cases of covid 19 for herd immunity is 227 million.
From this we subtract the percent of the population (17.9%) that will have the virus without knowing it (59 million) leaving us with 168 million cases needed to reach herd immunity. Using a mortality rate of 5.9% of know cases to reach herd immunity (168 million) gives us the total number of deaths to reach herd immunity (9.9 million). This number deaths is not an absurd number. It is the number of deaths that would occur using the current mortality rate of known cases to reach herd immunity. A vaccine would reduce the number considerably and new treatments would also reduce the number of deaths. Also keep mind that there is no time limit. This virus could and probably will around for many years as will deaths due to it.

Herd immunity happens when so many people in a community become immune to an infectious disease that it stops the disease from spreading. In effect the disease is wiped out. This is the theory but in reality, a nation may never fully reach herd immunity and there will still be cases because all parts of the world and all parts of the country may have not reached herd immunity. In fact, the chances are that we would never reach that point. Since viruses are constantly changing, new strains of the virus will appear so the reality is the virus never get's wipe out entirely but its numbers maybe so small as to not be a major health problem.

Studies Finds Nearly Everyone Who Recovers From COVID-19 Makes Coronavirus Antibodies, so yes a vaccine could work. What we don't know is how long these antibodies stick around. It could be just weeks, years, or a lifetime.

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30154-7/pdf

http://med.stanford.edu/content/dam/sm/id/documents/COVID/AsymptCOVID_TransmissionShip.pdf

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Jesus Christ where does this pseudoscience come from. We know how the fucking immune system works. Whatever you’ve been reading, you need to stop. We’ve already found the long term antibodies months ago.

The minimum proportion (%) of total population required to recover from COVID-19 to confer immunity for the US is estimated at 69%. Some countries are lower some are higher. Using this figure and a population 330 million, the require number of cases of covid 19 for herd immunity is 227 million.
From this we subtract the percent of the population (17.9%) that will have the virus without knowing it (59 million) leaving us with 168 million cases needed to reach herd immunity. Using a mortality rate of 5.9% of know cases to reach herd immunity (168 million) gives us the total number of deaths to reach herd immunity (9.9 million). This number deaths is not an absurd number. It is the number of deaths that would occur using the current mortality rate of known cases to reach herd immunity. A vaccine would reduce the number considerably and new treatments would also reduce the number of deaths. Also keep mind that there is no time limit. This virus could and probably will around for many years as will deaths due to it.

Herd immunity happens when so many people in a community become immune to an infectious disease that it stops the disease from spreading. In effect the disease is wiped out. This is the theory but in reality, a nation may never fully reach herd immunity and there will still be cases because all parts of the world and all parts of the country may have not reached herd immunity. In fact, the chances are that we would never reach that point. Since viruses are constantly changing, new strains of the virus will appear so the reality is the virus never get's wipe out entirely but its numbers maybe so small as to not be a major health problem.

Studies Finds Nearly Everyone Who Recovers From COVID-19 Makes Coronavirus Antibodies, so yes a vaccine could work. What we don't know is how long these antibodies stick around. It could be just weeks, years, or a lifetime.

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30154-7/pdf

http://med.stanford.edu/content/dam/sm/id/documents/COVID/AsymptCOVID_TransmissionShip.pdf

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Where the fuck are you getting this pseudoscience. We know how the immune system works. This isn’t attacking memory B cells. We’ve found those months ago. Even if it was true that for whatever magical reason our immune system decides to treat this disease different from every other disease it comes across...vaccines are not an option. They will not work, so what is your point? Why lockdown?

Let me explain this to you at a 4th grade reading level. If we lock down the at risk people, then we are only talking about achieving herd immunity for the not at risk people. Just like Sweden is SUCCESSFULLY doing. They actually looked at the numbers and made the correct decision. Its paying off dividends for them. There will be no second wave and soon they can open up their hospitals for elective surgeries again. Just because a surgery is elective, doesn’t mean it’s unnecessary. So the longer until we achieve herd immunity, the longer people who need surgeries and treatments have to wait, and the more and more their condition deteriorates. We’re talking things like pacemakers and stents. How many people are going to die in the mean time waiting for those?

Also, what the fuck is your death rate number. It’s obviously off by a factor of at least 10.

 

[KGB]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

A good place to start is when there are no new cases.

You couldn't figure that out all by yourself? Wow!

That will never happen

Not with our president.

Not with any president

Looks like South Korea, Singapore and other countries are flattening out that curve and reducing their numbers of active cases. Why can't Trump?

Let me know when the combined population numbers of those countries comes close to our actual population number....

There are no excuses for what has happened here. We are supposed to have the best medical facilities and equipment. Our situation was created by poor presidential leadership.

The White House runs all the hospitals in the US...even the privately owned ones...good to know...

 

[Flopper]

80,004 deaths in the US from Covid 19 divided by 1,346,339 Cases =5.89% (fatality rate). It's really not that complicated.
Sweden has a population of just under 10 million and no cities with a population over a million. The US has a population 330 million with 14 cities over million. The population density of Sweden's major cities is a fifth of the density of major US cities. On a per captia bases there's 32% more deaths in Sweden from Covid 19 than in the US. Sweden approach to testing has been essential workers only such as medical, police and fire which probably accounts for their low numbers of total cases reported and high numbers of deaths. You call that successful?

If vaccines aren't an option maybe you should share your knowledge with the 23 companies that are working on them and the 3 that are going into testing.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[Mac-7]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

A good place to start is when there are no new cases.

You couldn't figure that out all by yourself? Wow!

That will never happen

Not with our president.

Not with any president

Looks like South Korea, Singapore and other countries are flattening out that curve and reducing their numbers of active cases. Why can't Trump?

Let me know when the combined population numbers of those countries comes close to our actual population number....

There are no excuses for what has happened here. We are supposed to have the best medical facilities and equipment. Our situation was created by poor presidential leadership.

The White House runs all the hospitals in the US...even the privately owned ones...good to know...

It gets worse

jarred kushner own stock in all those hospitals

and don trump jr is on the board of directors

 

[Mac-7]

Plus they refuse to treat blacks, hispanics and chinese

 

[U2Edge]

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.

In your opinion, if Joe Biden is elected, and implements a Lockdown in January 2021, how long would it take? Remember, here in America, you aren't going to get 100% compliance. Also, recruiting and training 200,000 tracers isn't going to happen over night.

You make a World War II scale effort, and you will have the contact tracers you need within months. The United States can use its large police and military forces to help enforce compliance. This is a war against a pathogen, and anyone failing to obey the law is not only a law breaker, but a traitor to their country.

 

[U2Edge]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.
2. From there, with the proper increase in testing, contact tracing, and isolation, then the economy can begin to slowly open up.
3. The rate of new virus cases should be low enough that testers and contact tracers can research and control each case including isolating anyone that came in contact with the positively infected person.
4. This low level of daily new cases and large scale testing and contact tracing, will then make it safe to begin to reopen parts of the economy that are closed.
5. But the United States needs to hire about 200,000 contact tracers and train them.
6. Testing must be increased.
7. Those isolated must be given a place to live away from other people but with their basic needs supplied for 2 to 4 weeks.

The lockdowns would not have been necessary to this degree if we had simply done what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020. On that date, the blocked all travel from anywhere into the country. Citizens were only let in when they could be tested and had to be isolated for 2 to 4 weeks before they could have physical contact with other people.

The results are that TAIWAN has only had 440 cases, and 6 deaths. There are currently only 79 active cases in Taiwan which are contained their testing, contact tracing and isolation. By June, Taiwan will likely be free of the virus and will be able to lift more restrictions. Schools were able to remain open in Taiwan as well as restaurants.

It should end tomorrow, no ifs ands or buts.

Doing so will widen the spread of the virus, kill thousands of more Americans, and be more damaging to the economy in the long run. Consumers won't go out and spend money unless they feel it is safe. Just opening up your restaurant or movie theater does not mean consumers will come and spend their money there.

That's why you double down on making the environment safe so the consumer will return to do business. Opening up now just risks more spread and death and won't do anything to help the economy in the long run.

 

[U2Edge]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.
2. From there, with the proper increase in testing, contact tracing, and isolation, then the economy can begin to slowly open up.
3. The rate of new virus cases should be low enough that testers and contact tracers can research and control each case including isolating anyone that came in contact with the positively infected person.
4. This low level of daily new cases and large scale testing and contact tracing, will then make it safe to begin to reopen parts of the economy that are closed.
5. But the United States needs to hire about 200,000 contact tracers and train them.
6. Testing must be increased.
7. Those isolated must be given a place to live away from other people but with their basic needs supplied for 2 to 4 weeks.

The lockdowns would not have been necessary to this degree if we had simply done what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020. On that date, the blocked all travel from anywhere into the country. Citizens were only let in when they could be tested and had to be isolated for 2 to 4 weeks before they could have physical contact with other people.

The results are that TAIWAN has only had 440 cases, and 6 deaths. There are currently only 79 active cases in Taiwan which are contained their testing, contact tracing and isolation. By June, Taiwan will likely be free of the virus and will be able to lift more restrictions. Schools were able to remain open in Taiwan as well as restaurants.

How could Trump ban entry to the US by dozens of countries carrying a virus that is nothing but the common flu, a democrat hoax?

Taiwan did it right as did South Korea and New Zealand. Each of these countries were successful and each did it a bit different. However what each of these countries had was a plan to respond to a pandemic which went into operation before the first case was reported in their country. What the Trump administration did not understand is you can't begin planning for a pandemic after it arrives and have any chance of success. There are simply too many different entries involved in the private and public sector at the local, state, and national level to plan as you go. From the time the virus arrives, it spreads exponentially. The time for planing is gone after the first case is confirmed.

Taiwan and New Zealand are islands, and South Korea might as well be- their only border is the very tight , short one with North Korea.

There is no comparison between those countries and America with wide open borders.

The overwhelming majority of people arrive to the United States from other countries through AIR TRAVEL, the same way they arrive in New Zealand or Taiwan. The virus arrived in the United States by AIR TRAVEL, not someone driving in a car across the border with Mexico or Canada.

New York City is the epicenter of the outbreak in the United States. Most Canadians travel to New York City using AIR TRAVEL. Most Mexicans travel to New York City by AIR as well.

 

[Polishprince]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.
2. From there, with the proper increase in testing, contact tracing, and isolation, then the economy can begin to slowly open up.
3. The rate of new virus cases should be low enough that testers and contact tracers can research and control each case including isolating anyone that came in contact with the positively infected person.
4. This low level of daily new cases and large scale testing and contact tracing, will then make it safe to begin to reopen parts of the economy that are closed.
5. But the United States needs to hire about 200,000 contact tracers and train them.
6. Testing must be increased.
7. Those isolated must be given a place to live away from other people but with their basic needs supplied for 2 to 4 weeks.

The lockdowns would not have been necessary to this degree if we had simply done what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020. On that date, the blocked all travel from anywhere into the country. Citizens were only let in when they could be tested and had to be isolated for 2 to 4 weeks before they could have physical contact with other people.

The results are that TAIWAN has only had 440 cases, and 6 deaths. There are currently only 79 active cases in Taiwan which are contained their testing, contact tracing and isolation. By June, Taiwan will likely be free of the virus and will be able to lift more restrictions. Schools were able to remain open in Taiwan as well as restaurants.

It should end tomorrow, no ifs ands or buts.

Doing so will widen the spread of the virus, kill thousands of more Americans, and be more damaging to the economy in the long run. Consumers won't go out and spend money unless they feel it is safe. Just opening up your restaurant or movie theater does not mean consumers will come and spend their money there.

That's why you double down on making the environment safe so the consumer will return to do business. Opening up now just risks more spread and death and won't do anything to help the economy in the long run.

The main problem here with your scenario, if you wait until there is a cure for this virus, there won't be anything to reopen and the economy will be in shambles. A 12-18 month lockdown would be a catastrophe.

Reopening after that length of time isn't something which is done overnight at all. Finding capital for inventory, recruiting and hiring staff all takes time, and there won't any customers out there with money. Digging your way out of a great depression would be a 20 year project.