Making America Great Again: President Trump Seriously Looking At Ending Birthright Citizenship

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's either liberal or it's not. Hollywood is liberal. Would you also deny that? Most of the MSM is liberal. Do you agree or disagree with that?

Yes, I would deny that Hollywood is "Liberal".

James woods is liberal? Tom Selleck?

I could go on. I'm not interested in your vast generalizations. They are the arguments of the weak.

You could go on, but not very far I'm afraid. If you don't think Hollywood is liberal, it tells me your limited knowledge of politics in general.

Disney and the rest have done what they did to increase "shareholder value". That is not a liberal value. That is a Conservative welfare system.

Sure they did. However the Washington Examiner totally disagrees with you.

Disney’s push to force leftist politics onto kids

Says nothing about Shareholder value.

What it does say is they are pushing their leftist agenda against the approval of their consumers. How is that promoting shareholder values?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It can be used for a lot of better purposes. I'm all for ending the wars. Stopping the bail outs. Etc.

Bailouts were a once in a great while thing, and let's not forget DumBama's involvement in that. Taking care of all these immigrants is an ongoing thing and a never ending expense that's been going on every year for decades. Apples and oranges.

If I destroyed their home it's the least I can allow them to do. When we stop destroying the lands of others, then we can start demanding they all stay there.

Thank you from the Blame America First crowd. Now who's land did we destroy from south America?

How US policy in Honduras set the stage for today's migration

About the most leftist piece of garbage I've ever seen.

As I said, anything that doesn't fit your argument. If you want to argue that history is leftist, have at it.

That is correct, I mistakenly said leftist, when what I should have said is anti-American. They lay blame going back to the late 1800's on the United States, and even blamed the actions of the Clintons: both Bill and Hillary. They also placed blame on DumBama as well.

 

[Issa]

You got no proof I see.

You don't think the use of the word Benjamin's associated with the Jewish people is anti-semitic?

She meant money...and she was right, that's not anti semitic. Why would presidential hopefuls run to AIPAC for support to bank money from Zionist donors that their main goal is to back a foreign nation?

She used the term Benjamin and Israel to implicate Jewish people are out for the money; a stereotype of the Jewish community. If she said black people were out for the watermelons, would you consider that to be a racial comment?

She meant AIPAC and money...one has to make a clear difference between criticizing lobbies that back Israel and anti semitism.
Example I dont like the regime in Saudi Arabia that doesnt make me islamophobe.

It doesn't matter what money she was referring to. The fact is that Jewish people have been stereotyped to be money grubbers. It would be no different than if Trump referred to her as a terrorist.

Apples and oranges...nothing was said it anti semitic. And what did Tlaib say that the righties call her anti semitic ?

 

[Issa]

She meant AIPAC and money...one has to make a clear difference between criticizing lobbies that back Israel and anti semitism.
Example I dont like the regime in Saudi Arabia that doesnt make me islamophobe.

Ilan Omar is a fucking Muslim who wears a hijab a symbol of Muslim oppression of females and theocratic rule which is directly opposed to our Constitution. She refuses to remove that rag. Her comrades are traitors and should be prosecuted as such along with her. You are out of your mind if you think for one minute any one of these cult-religion bitches care about America.

She is oppressed because she wears a hijab and you are the first to attack k and insult her ? Lol you want her half naked to prove that she is not oppressed ? She represents her area and she was elected by Americans....you can go and run against her and try and defeat her democratically.

 

[Meathead]

She meant AIPAC and money...one has to make a clear difference between criticizing lobbies that back Israel and anti semitism.
Example I dont like the regime in Saudi Arabia that doesnt make me islamophobe.

Ilan Omar is a fucking Muslim who wears a hijab a symbol of Muslim oppression of females and theocratic rule which is directly opposed to our Constitution. She refuses to remove that rag. Her comrades are traitors and should be prosecuted as such along with her. You are out of your mind if you think for one minute any one of these cult-religion bitches care about America.

She is oppressed because she wears a hijab and you are the first to attack k and insult her ? Lol you want her half naked to prove that she is not oppressed ? She represents her area and she was elected by Americans....you can go and run against her and try and defeat her democratically.

Nobody wants Muslim women half naked, not even Muslim men! Seriously!

 

[Issa]

Lol oh so it was not weapons of mass destruction ? And that was the first desert storm...the US went on later to occupy the oil rich country with false claims...even your master orange recognizes that.

You can shove your weird master shit back up your ass were you pulled it from.

My point stands. ONly a fucktard would deny that Iraq was a threat to the world's oil supply with a picture of the world's oil burning in front of him.

From an imperialistic way ? Of course....war Iraq invasion was an imperialistic unilateral move by the US....not even crazy little orange baby agreed with it although he flip flopped on that like always.

I posted photographic evidence to back up my claim, and all you did was restate your claim.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP LEFTARD.

We explained to you that was during the Iraq invasion the international intervention was just...the American invasion of Iraq years later had no legitimacy. Capiche ?

What you did was post a bunch of shit, full more of partisan jabs and shit, than anything resembling a coherent point.


Are you incapable of doing more, or are you purposefully being a prick?

Dude I bet you cant even point where Iraq is...the whole entire world knows and recognize that the Iraq invasion was illegitimate and even the orange admitted that...and you are arguing with your own stupid unfounded stories.

 

[Issa]

She meant AIPAC and money...one has to make a clear difference between criticizing lobbies that back Israel and anti semitism.
Example I dont like the regime in Saudi Arabia that doesnt make me islamophobe.

Ilan Omar is a fucking Muslim who wears a hijab a symbol of Muslim oppression of females and theocratic rule which is directly opposed to our Constitution. She refuses to remove that rag. Her comrades are traitors and should be prosecuted as such along with her. You are out of your mind if you think for one minute any one of these cult-religion bitches care about America.

She is oppressed because she wears a hijab and you are the first to attack k and insult her ? Lol you want her half naked to prove that she is not oppressed ? She represents her area and she was elected by Americans....you can go and run against her and try and defeat her democratically.

Nobody wants Muslim women half naked, not even Muslim men! Seriously!

Who cares most choose to dress modestly. Is not up to you to tell them how to dress.

 

[Meathead]

She meant AIPAC and money...one has to make a clear difference between criticizing lobbies that back Israel and anti semitism.
Example I dont like the regime in Saudi Arabia that doesnt make me islamophobe.

Ilan Omar is a fucking Muslim who wears a hijab a symbol of Muslim oppression of females and theocratic rule which is directly opposed to our Constitution. She refuses to remove that rag. Her comrades are traitors and should be prosecuted as such along with her. You are out of your mind if you think for one minute any one of these cult-religion bitches care about America.

She is oppressed because she wears a hijab and you are the first to attack k and insult her ? Lol you want her half naked to prove that she is not oppressed ? She represents her area and she was elected by Americans....you can go and run against her and try and defeat her democratically.

Nobody wants Muslim women half naked, not even Muslim men! Seriously!

Who cares most choose to dress modestly. Is not up to you to tell them how to dress.

No, I encourage Muslim women to dress as modestly as possible. I see why you Muslims have a proclivity for goats.

 

[Issa]

She meant AIPAC and money...one has to make a clear difference between criticizing lobbies that back Israel and anti semitism.
Example I dont like the regime in Saudi Arabia that doesnt make me islamophobe.

Ilan Omar is a fucking Muslim who wears a hijab a symbol of Muslim oppression of females and theocratic rule which is directly opposed to our Constitution. She refuses to remove that rag. Her comrades are traitors and should be prosecuted as such along with her. You are out of your mind if you think for one minute any one of these cult-religion bitches care about America.

She is oppressed because she wears a hijab and you are the first to attack k and insult her ? Lol you want her half naked to prove that she is not oppressed ? She represents her area and she was elected by Americans....you can go and run against her and try and defeat her democratically.

Nobody wants Muslim women half naked, not even Muslim men! Seriously!

Who cares most choose to dress modestly. Is not up to you to tell them how to dress.

No, I encourage Muslim women to dress as modestly as possible. I see why you Muslims have a proclivity for goats.

So how did you come up with that conclusion?

 

[Meathead]

Ilan Omar is a fucking Muslim who wears a hijab a symbol of Muslim oppression of females and theocratic rule which is directly opposed to our Constitution. She refuses to remove that rag. Her comrades are traitors and should be prosecuted as such along with her. You are out of your mind if you think for one minute any one of these cult-religion bitches care about America.

She is oppressed because she wears a hijab and you are the first to attack k and insult her ? Lol you want her half naked to prove that she is not oppressed ? She represents her area and she was elected by Americans....you can go and run against her and try and defeat her democratically.

Nobody wants Muslim women half naked, not even Muslim men! Seriously!

Who cares most choose to dress modestly. Is not up to you to tell them how to dress.

No, I encourage Muslim women to dress as modestly as possible. I see why you Muslims have a proclivity for goats.

So how did you come up with that conclusion?

By looking at Muslim women of course. Frightfully ugly they are.

 

[busybee01]

I can see granting US citizenship only to children who have one parent living here LEGALLY. That is easy enough to prove. However, using a term as fuzzy as "foreigners" is never going to cut it. By law, immigrants who WANT to become citizens must live in the US FIVE YEARS before applying for naturalization. They are foreigners who plan to become citizens and of course want their children to be, as well, since they will be raised here.

I agree that Chinese women who travel here on a tourist visa to have a baby and then fly back to China with a US citizen child is BULLSHIT. So is granting citizenship to the children of two illegals living in the US. The illegal shit has got to stop. I agree with that.

Trump has to be careful how that is done, though, in order to be fair. And I don't believe Trump can change that himself; it is written in law and needs to be changed by Congress, doesn't it?

The problem is less Congress than it was previous rulings on citizenship. That's what we need to do first; have it so the Supreme Court rules that anchor babies are not constitutionally protected.

Maybe you should study some American history. Birthright citizenship has been recognized for hundreds of years and by great men such as James Madison. We should discard it because white men are afraid of losing their political influence. If the Supreme Court turns this aside then no one including you is a American citizen.

James Madison and Abraham Lincoln were great men. Our society has changed since they offered their opinions, though. During their times, there were no such things as "illegals." If a person moved here, he could apply for naturalization or not, but the government did not start putting limits on how many or who could enter until 1882; immigration laws have become increasingly restrictive since.

16% of the countries (30+) in the world have birthright citizenship, almost exclusively in North and South America. From the map I found, only Colombia and Surinam in the Americas do not (it wasn't a big map; I hope that's accurate). Europe, Africa and Asia has only a handful--Kenya, Lesotho and Pakistan were the only ones I could find. None in Europe, although France and Ireland gave it up recently (1993 and 2005 respectively) and so did Australia. Over here, the Dominican Republic just gave it up in 2013--and left tens of thousands residents nationless due to undocumented nationality of their parents. We'd want to make sure that doesn't happen if we change over.

Canada is also considering revoking birthright citizenship due to "birth tourism;" and is one of the reasons the overseas countries that have recently revoked it did.

The cost of social programs for illegals who are not paying into the system? That is a factor, but I believe it is greatly exaggerated. That argument is for another thread, though.

This is a good article for perspective of jus soli (right of the soil) and jus sanguinis (right of blood) --the nationality of a parent. There is nothing "evil" about revoking jus soli. With the changes in our society, sometimes laws need to change, too.

America Isn’t the ‘Only Country’ With Birthright Citizenship

Then revoke it legally by a constitutional amendment. There is no basis in fact to assume that birthright citizenship is not the law of the land and the 14th Amendment does grant birthright citizenship. That was explicitly made clear during the debate. James Madison said parentage does not matter as much as location.

The father of the 14th Amendment, Rep. John Bingham, during its framing stated this:

“every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

Anchor babies are not citizens. They are born with allegiance to their illegal parents country.

A baby who has never been to another country cannot have allegiance to a country they have never been in. Birthright citizenship was a part of this country BEFORE the 14th Amendment. You can give us 1 quote. I can give you a dozen proving my point.

"It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States; it will therefore be unnecessary to investigate any other."
-James Madison 1789

press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_2_2s6.html


"The only standard which then existed [when the Constitution was written],of a natural born citizen, was the rule of common law, and no different standard has been adopted since. Suppose a person should be elected president who was native born, but of alien parents; could there be any reasonable doubt that he was eligible under the Constitution? I think not. The position would be decisive in his favor, that by the rule of the common law, in force when the Constitution was adopted, he is a citizen."
Vice Chancellor Lewis Sandford in Lynch vs Clarke

Reports of Cases Argued and Determined in the Court of Chancery of the State of New York [1843-1847, Before the Hon. Lewis H. Sandford, Assistant Vice-chancellor of the First Circuit

"In reply to the inquiry which is made by you…whether “the children of foreign parents born in the United States, but brought to the country of which the father is a subject, and continuing to reside within the jurisdiction of their father’s country, are entitled to protection as citizens of the United States,” I have to observe that it is presumed that, according to the common law, any person born in the United States, unless he be born in one of the foreign legations therein, may be considered a citizen thereof until he formally renounces his citizenship. There is not, however any United States statute containing a provision upon this subject, nor, so far as I am aware, has there been any judicial decision in regard to it."
Secretary of State William Learned Mercy

A digest of international law as embodied in diplomatic discussions, treaties and other international agreements

"The Constitution leaves no room for doubt upon this subject. The words ‘natural born citizen of the United states’ appear in it, and the other provision appears in it that, “Congress shall have power to pass a uniform system of naturalization.” To naturalize a person is to admit him to citizenship. Who are natural born citizens but those born within the Republic? Those born within the Republic, whether black or white, are citizens by birth–natural born citizens."
Rep Bingham in 1862

memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llcg&fileName=059/llcg059.db&recNum=680

The meaning was very clear during debate.

Mr. COWAN. I will ask whether it will not have the effect of naturalizing the children of Chinese and Gypsies born in this country?

Mr. TRUMBULL. Undoubtedly.

[…]

Mr. TRUMBULL. I should like to inquire of my friend from Pennsylvania, if the children of Chinese now born in this country are not citizens?

Mr. COWAN. I think not.

Mr. TRUMBULL. I understand that under the naturalization laws the children who are born here of parents who have not been naturalized are citizens. That is the law, as I understand it, at the present time. Is not the child born in this country of German parents a citizen? I am afraid we have got very few citizens in some of the counties of good old Pennsylvania if the children born of German parents are not citizens.
A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774 - 1875

James Ho makes a obvious point.
"It is also worth observing that, if the drafters had intended to require allegiance, rather than obedience, they could have said so. How easy it would have been for them to state explicitly that only children born to citizens are guaranteed birthright citizenship—with a simple proviso to address the descendants of slaves. But instead, they chose the language of jurisdiction, not citizenship. And that decision deserves respect."

 

[Issa]

She is oppressed because she wears a hijab and you are the first to attack k and insult her ? Lol you want her half naked to prove that she is not oppressed ? She represents her area and she was elected by Americans....you can go and run against her and try and defeat her democratically.

Nobody wants Muslim women half naked, not even Muslim men! Seriously!

Who cares most choose to dress modestly. Is not up to you to tell them how to dress.

No, I encourage Muslim women to dress as modestly as possible. I see why you Muslims have a proclivity for goats.

So how did you come up with that conclusion?

By looking at Muslim women of course. Frightfully ugly they are.

Ok, so if all Muslim women are ugly isnt nice for you that they are covered?

 

[busybee01]

What do I have? The fact that we had to be lied into a war with them. You posted a pic of something that had long been done and over with. There are even questions of whether or not Iraq thought we were good with it because of us backing them in our other useless wars.

Got it. You have shit, just like I said.

My point stands. Iraq was a threat and anyone that says otherwise is dishonest or a dupe.


Your using your anti-American spin of our foreign policy to excuse the actions of illegals has been shown to be bullshit.


Why do you always side with the anti-American side?

I never side with those who lie to us.

I asked you a simple question, and you had to run and hide from answering.


What type of coward can't answer a simple and honest question?

Sorry you do not like my honest answer. I believe it is those who would lie this country into wars and those who support that, that is being un American.

How about lying of a healthcare plan that cost the country over a trillion dollars that didn't do nearly what it was supposed to do?

Trump lied to us about the tax cuts. Obamacare is more popular than Trump.

 

[Leo123]

She is oppressed because she wears a hijab and you are the first to attack k and insult her ? Lol you want her half naked to prove that she is not oppressed ? She represents her area and she was elected by Americans....you can go and run against her and try and defeat her democratically.

Why doesn't she remove that symbol of oppression then?

 

[Leo123]

Trump lied to us about the tax cuts. Obamacare is more popular than Trump.

Oh boy! It's 'talking point' time!!

Obama lied to us about 'you can keep your doctor.' Obama lied about being an American citizen. This is fun!!!

 

[Picaro]

It's the next step in making America great again. Birthright Citizenship refers to Citizen parents, not Illegals. The 14th Amendment was only created for slaves after the civil war. It was not created for foreigners. Let's hear from the man who wrote the Citizenship clause himself, Senator John Jacob Howard:

"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."

This understanding was reaffirmed by Senator Edward Cowan, who stated:

"[A foreigner in the United States] has a right to the protection of the laws; but he is not a citizen in the ordinary acceptance of the word..."

The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete.



President Trump Says He Is Still "Looking Seriously" at Ending Birthright Citizenship

Hopefully Ginsburg does the right thing and resigns, and we get another Trump appointment in her seat before this challenge comes before the SC.

 

[Meathead]

Nobody wants Muslim women half naked, not even Muslim men! Seriously!

Who cares most choose to dress modestly. Is not up to you to tell them how to dress.

No, I encourage Muslim women to dress as modestly as possible. I see why you Muslims have a proclivity for goats.

So how did you come up with that conclusion?

By looking at Muslim women of course. Frightfully ugly they are.

Ok, so if all Muslim women are ugly isnt nice for you that they are covered?

With few exception, of course. That's what I've been saying!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's the next step in making America great again. Birthright Citizenship refers to Citizen parents, not Illegals. The 14th Amendment was only created for slaves after the civil war. It was not created for foreigners. Let's hear from the man who wrote the Citizenship clause himself, Senator John Jacob Howard:

"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."

This understanding was reaffirmed by Senator Edward Cowan, who stated:

"[A foreigner in the United States] has a right to the protection of the laws; but he is not a citizen in the ordinary acceptance of the word..."

The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete.



President Trump Says He Is Still "Looking Seriously" at Ending Birthright Citizenship

Hopefully Ginsburg does the right thing and resigns, and we get another Trump appointment in her seat before this challenge comes before the SC.

I wouldn't look for that anytime soon. Even if she ends up in a hospital bed for the rest of her days, she still won't retire because it's the right thing to do. She will keep that seat until her last breath.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Got it. You have shit, just like I said.

My point stands. Iraq was a threat and anyone that says otherwise is dishonest or a dupe.


Your using your anti-American spin of our foreign policy to excuse the actions of illegals has been shown to be bullshit.


Why do you always side with the anti-American side?

I never side with those who lie to us.

I asked you a simple question, and you had to run and hide from answering.


What type of coward can't answer a simple and honest question?

Sorry you do not like my honest answer. I believe it is those who would lie this country into wars and those who support that, that is being un American.

How about lying of a healthcare plan that cost the country over a trillion dollars that didn't do nearly what it was supposed to do?

Trump lied to us about the tax cuts. Obamacare is more popular than Trump.

I guess we'll see in 2020 how popular Trump is. But if he loses, how much you want to bet you leftists will blame Trump when the Dem President sends this economy in the opposite direction?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

She meant AIPAC and money...one has to make a clear difference between criticizing lobbies that back Israel and anti semitism.
Example I dont like the regime in Saudi Arabia that doesnt make me islamophobe.

Ilan Omar is a fucking Muslim who wears a hijab a symbol of Muslim oppression of females and theocratic rule which is directly opposed to our Constitution. She refuses to remove that rag. Her comrades are traitors and should be prosecuted as such along with her. You are out of your mind if you think for one minute any one of these cult-religion bitches care about America.

She is oppressed because she wears a hijab and you are the first to attack k and insult her ? Lol you want her half naked to prove that she is not oppressed ? She represents her area and she was elected by Americans....you can go and run against her and try and defeat her democratically.

How about if she dresses like an American? Nah, can't have that. She's in America now unfortunately.