Manufacturing Consent on Same Sex Marriage

[buckeye45_73]

This thesis "The issue of same sex marriage boils down to adults selfishly seeking to define a right to have children over and above the right of children to intact biological families" is unsustainable.

Children have a right to a family, whether biological or not.

The error is to suggest, without any evidence, that children have a right to "biological" families.

Children have a right and have the need to be loved by 'parents', whether biological or not.

but biological is better, or else we can all be children of the state...Where is Neo or Jor El when we need them!

 

[Seawytch]

And Sil, it's five babies, four pregnancies. My partner and I have two children from a known sperm donor. I later was a gestational surrogate, twice, for a gay male couple. I did give birth to twins with the final pregnancy, a boy and a girl...with different fathers.

I clearly remember you saying you had twins and gave one of them over to a gay male couple. That's the part that stuck in my mind anyway. Thanks for the correction on the number. However, were the men entitled to just one half of that gestation or both twins? Why would you separate twins at birth and give only half of the gestation up that you contracted out to these gay men and... Did these specific gay men donate the sperm for your other pregnancies? Was there a dollar amount placed on the donation? What were the arrangments legally. Posters here would be very curious to know. I know I am.

No, the twins weren't separated. I was a surrogate twice for the same gay male couple. Three kids all theirs, all legal contracts adjudicated.

No, I did not know these men at the time my partner and I had children. We used sperm from a gay male friend of ours. My partner has legally adopted our children in 2nd parent adoption proceedings.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

How did the Left gain the upper hand with same sex marriage?

They didn’t.

Conservatives have only themselves to blame; they alone placed themselves on the wrong side of the issue. Most conservatives are on the wrong side of the Constitution, the wrong side of its case law, the wrong side of history, and the wrong side of common sense and decency.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This thesis "The issue of same sex marriage boils down to adults selfishly seeking to define a right to have children over and above the right of children to intact biological families" is unsustainable.

Children have a right to a family, whether biological or not.

The error is to suggest, without any evidence, that children have a right to "biological" families.

Children have a right and have the need to be loved by 'parents', whether biological or not.

but biological is better, or else we can all be children of the state...Where is Neo or Jor El when we need them!

Two inconsistencies. You can't evidence "better", thus only your opinion for what it's worth. And, second, how are children of gays and lesbians "wards" of the state.

 

[bodecea]

gay people have families.

that is why the sentiments are changing in this country .

why do you hate gay people?

Wrong, they are just mentally ill men and women. Doesn't matter if you're born with the illness or acquire it, treatment is needed, not an enabling society.

All enveloping hatred of a group that has done nothing to one is the real mental illness.

 

[Silhouette]

All enveloping hatred of a group that has done nothing to one is the real mental illness.

Above is the example of the "this isn't a gay values vs society issue. It's man on man [pardon the pun]." with a dash of "you're crazy if you oppose the cult" for good measure.

The diversion is to trick the debator that because they personally don't have any threat from a gay marriage, that society as a whole doesn't either. Which is false. We adults have to look out for the impressionable kids growing up in this matrix, whose only voice allowed in this topic HAS to be "pro gay' because if they speak out against the church of LGBT, they are labelled a "bully" and sent to detention...

So when you hear a gay person say "how does this affect YOU personally?" Your answer is "because I am a custodian of the society where children I may be a guardian to, or am already a guardian to are growing up in."

I'll leave you with this grim statistic to underline why this is about gay cult values vs SOCIETY instead of vs individual people:

CDC Reports Troubling Rise in HIV Infections Among Young People

Young people aged 13 to 24 made up about 26 percent of all new diagnoses in 2010, even as other demographics have remained relatively stable, according to new information from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention....

..“Given everything we know about HIV and how to prevent it, after more than 30 years of fighting the disease, it’s just unacceptable that young people are getting infected at such high rates,” said Dr. Thomas Frieden, the CDC’s director, on a conference call with reporters Tuesday....

...Most young people diagnosed with HIV today contract the disease through sex. For most young men, it’s through sex with other men CDC Reports Troubling Rise in HIV Infections Among Young People | ENDGAME: AIDS in Black America | FRONTLINE | PBS

Odd for such a sharp increase above the baseline in a demographic that is supposed to be stable and "born that way" eh? And odder still the increase is in *drum roll* impressionable youth..

Since HIV is a society epidemic instead of an individual epidemic, it behooves people to be against promoting gay as normal and instead fight against it becoming normalized for the sake of their own skin if nothing else.

The sudden sharp increase in boys getting HIV coincides perfectly with the same years gay marriage has been forced on the various states now fighting to retain democracy within their boundaries..

Monkey see, monkey do is why everyone needs to be concerned about this deviant sex cult.

 

[Silhouette]

Bring up that sharp increase in HIV in youth these past few years and suddenly the place gets quiet.

Dead children tend to do that to a conversation...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Bring up that sharp increase in HIV in youth these past few years and suddenly the place gets quiet.

Dead children tend to do that to a conversation...

Your hatred of homosexuals is why it's gotten quiet. Your homophobia has bored everyone to death.

 

[Silhouette]

Bring up that sharp increase in HIV in youth these past few years and suddenly the place gets quiet.

Dead children tend to do that to a conversation...

Your hatred of homosexuals is why it's gotten quiet. Your homophobia has bored everyone to death.

Are you trying to be the poster child for the OP?

What you just said is that people who are alarmed at the rising rates of kids dying from AIDS is equal to "hatred" and "homophobia". Being afraid of a cult of behaviors elevating the death rate in children is a bad thing how?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Bring up that sharp increase in HIV in youth these past few years and suddenly the place gets quiet.

Dead children tend to do that to a conversation...

Your hatred of homosexuals is why it's gotten quiet. Your homophobia has bored everyone to death.

Are you trying to be the poster child for the OP?

What you just said is that people who are alarmed at the rising rates of kids dying from AIDS is equal to "hatred" and "homophobia". Being afraid of a cult of behaviors elevating the death rate in children is a bad thing how?

Because you are homophobic it means you are not rational about this issue or anything closely related, period.

 

[Silhouette]

Because you are homophobic it means you are not rational about this issue or anything closely related, period.

Because you are a member of a cult that uses the word "homophobic" to shut down free speech in opposition to your dogma, persecution style, means you are not rational about this issue or anything closely related, period.

Know how I know that? Because you are advocating the unnecessary and preventable deaths of children and young men on the increase and I am advocating preventing that.

There's the litmus test, Mr. Crazy.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Because you are homophobic it means you are not rational about this issue or anything closely related, period.

Because you are a member of a cult that uses the word "homophobic" to shut down free speech in opposition to your dogma, persecution style, means you are not rational about this issue or anything closely related, period.

Know how I know that? Because you are advocating the unnecessary and preventable deaths of children and young men on the increase and I am advocating preventing that.

There's the litmus test, Mr. Crazy.

As I said, you aren't rational.

 

[Bombur]

Use anything Fox News pushes as well. The "war on Christianity" for example.

People become isolated in their own little versions of reality so this cascade effect can become really strong in one direction within one group and really strong in the other direction with a different group.

The left is not pretending that they haven't actively tried to convince people to give gays the right to marry. The conservatives haven't hidden the fact they want to stop gays from having the right to marry. Heck they even pushed for DOMA way long ago because they knew this fight was on the horizon.

In the end God is on the side of gay marriage.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

In law, marriage is merely a 'civil contract.' Not a religious rite. Thus any two legal aged adults able to enter into other contracts (business et al.) with one another can/should be able to enter into marriage contracts as well. Legally, there's no objections possible to denying this. Only objections come from religions. And since religions aren't to be respected in law, those objections can't be used to deny marriage to any two adults.

 

[Silhouette]

In the end God is on the side of gay marriage.

Only if "God's" name is Lucifer

Have you read the strong warnings and no-nonsense admonitions in Jude 1 and Romans 1? Because they say the exact opposite of your conclusion. In fact, they are worded so strongly and the lesson of the destruction of two cities and all their inhabitants so profound, held out as "an example of what will happen" to any other civilizations who fall by that wayside...you cannot conclude otherwise.

It's helpful if you're a christian reading this and wondering where God actually stands on this issue, to read Jude 1 and Romans 1 instead of some gay guy telling you what God stands for in the internet.

 

[Bombur]

In the end God is on the side of gay marriage.

Only if "God's" name is Lucifer

Have you read the strong warnings and no-nonsense admonitions in Jude 1 and Romans 1? Because they say the exact opposite of your conclusion. In fact, they are worded so strongly and the lesson of the destruction of two cities and all their inhabitants so profound, held out as "an example of what will happen" to any other civilizations who fall by that wayside...you cannot conclude otherwise.

It's helpful if you're a christian reading this and wondering where God actually stands on this issue, to read Jude 1 and Romans 1 instead of some gay guy telling you what God stands for in the internet.

Whether you want to admit it or not people are changing their minds because they are following Jesus's command to love their neighbor as themselves. Certain prejudices and ignorance can prevent that process from taking place but the path of righteousness set forth by Jesus Christ is becoming clearer to more and more people.

 

[Silhouette]

In the end God is on the side of gay marriage.

Only if "God's" name is Lucifer

Have you read the strong warnings and no-nonsense admonitions in Jude 1 and Romans 1? Because they say the exact opposite of your conclusion. In fact, they are worded so strongly and the lesson of the destruction of two cities and all their inhabitants so profound, held out as "an example of what will happen" to any other civilizations who fall by that wayside...you cannot conclude otherwise.

It's helpful if you're a christian reading this and wondering where God actually stands on this issue, to read Jude 1 and Romans 1 instead of some gay guy telling you what God stands for in the internet.

Whether you want to admit it or not people are changing their minds because they are following Jesus's command to love their neighbor as themselves. Certain prejudices and ignorance can prevent that process from taking place but the path of righteousness set forth by Jesus Christ is becoming clearer to more and more people.

Jude 1 and Romans 1 doesn't tell people they should hate gay people. They say that christians must not allow gay people to substitute what they do for "normal" in a society. Big difference. And they gave what God did to Sodom as an example for failing to earnestly contend for the common salvation. Everyone went down to the Pit, not just gays. Those New Testament passages tell christians to despise the behavior, not the men and women doing it.

So to follow Jude 1 and Romans 1 is consistent with Jesus teaching compassion. Compassion is not, however, synonymous with promotion or enabling..

 

[JakeStarkey]

In the end God is on the side of gay marriage.

Only if "God's" name is Lucifer

Oh, my, judgmental are we?

 

[Bombur]

Only if "God's" name is Lucifer

Have you read the strong warnings and no-nonsense admonitions in Jude 1 and Romans 1? Because they say the exact opposite of your conclusion. In fact, they are worded so strongly and the lesson of the destruction of two cities and all their inhabitants so profound, held out as "an example of what will happen" to any other civilizations who fall by that wayside...you cannot conclude otherwise.

It's helpful if you're a christian reading this and wondering where God actually stands on this issue, to read Jude 1 and Romans 1 instead of some gay guy telling you what God stands for in the internet.

Whether you want to admit it or not people are changing their minds because they are following Jesus's command to love their neighbor as themselves. Certain prejudices and ignorance can prevent that process from taking place but the path of righteousness set forth by Jesus Christ is becoming clearer to more and more people.

Jude 1 and Romans 1 doesn't tell people they should hate gay people. They say that christians must not allow gay people to substitute what they do for "normal" in a society. Big difference. And they gave what God did to Sodom as an example for failing to earnestly contend for the common salvation. Everyone went down to the Pit, not just gays. Those New Testament passages tell christians to despise the behavior, not the men and women doing it.

So to follow Jude 1 and Romans 1 is consistent with Jesus teaching compassion. Compassion is not, however, synonymous with promotion or enabling..

Your treatment of gays is incompatible with Jesus's command to love your neighbor as yourself. Things are changing because people are following God's will. The only thing that stopped them in the past was fear, ignorance, and prejudice.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Only if "God's" name is Lucifer

Have you read the strong warnings and no-nonsense admonitions in Jude 1 and Romans 1? Because they say the exact opposite of your conclusion. In fact, they are worded so strongly and the lesson of the destruction of two cities and all their inhabitants so profound, held out as "an example of what will happen" to any other civilizations who fall by that wayside...you cannot conclude otherwise.

It's helpful if you're a christian reading this and wondering where God actually stands on this issue, to read Jude 1 and Romans 1 instead of some gay guy telling you what God stands for in the internet.

Whether you want to admit it or not people are changing their minds because they are following Jesus's command to love their neighbor as themselves. Certain prejudices and ignorance can prevent that process from taking place but the path of righteousness set forth by Jesus Christ is becoming clearer to more and more people.

Jude 1 and Romans 1 doesn't tell people they should hate gay people. They say that christians must not allow gay people to substitute what they do for "normal" in a society. Big difference. And they gave what God did to Sodom as an example for failing to earnestly contend for the common salvation. Everyone went down to the Pit, not just gays. Those New Testament passages tell christians to despise the behavior, not the men and women doing it.

So to follow Jude 1 and Romans 1 is consistent with Jesus teaching compassion. Compassion is not, however, synonymous with promotion or enabling..

We observe that you found the error in your earlier teaching of Jude 1 and Romans 1.

Congrats.