Maunder Minimum

[Cardinal Carminative]

Did you know anyone can say anything on the internet?

Sure. Someone asked me what my degree was in. I just told them.

I'd ask you what your degree is in, but "Medical Office Assistant" doesn't really excite me to learn more about the person.

 

[boedicca]

So?

Sunspot activity is growing. Will that mean that the sun is going to increase it's output and the Earth will get warmer?

Oh, noes! It's the SUN causing climate change!

Whodathunkit.

Indeed. More solar activity - higher temps; lower solar activity - lower temps. It's going to get a lot colder before too long....

 

[daveman]

OK, that last sentence tells me all I need to know about how little you actually understand science.

Let's talk about GEOLOGY for a second. What "experiments" do you think geologists run to know, say, what the Mantle is made up of? Do you think that they create a completely new planet earth and see what happens?

What "experiments" are run to learn the history of the earth?

Do you not believe that geology is a science?




Wrong-o. But you believe what you want. If you actually CARE about learning the history of the AGW concept you can read about it here: Global Warming Timeline



Well, you are pretty much wrong all around, but that's because you seem to be ignorant of just about everything involved in this concept.

You can always learn. (One assumes)

Goodness, you Kultists get angry when confronted by heresy.

But, hey, you just keep trying to distract people with geology, when that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

And every single "solution" proposed for climate change is redistribution of wealth.

You don't have to believe me. Your own High Priest admitted it.

IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing The World’s Wealth”​

 

[daveman]

Sure. Someone asked me what my degree was in. I just told them.

Did you? Seems kinda...convenient.

I'd ask you what your degree is in, but "Medical Office Assistant" doesn't really excite me to learn more about the person.

I've done well without a degree. They're badly overrated. That's more heresy that will shock and offend you.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The warming from greenhouse gases will also need to reach down into deeper levels of the ocean (that takes time) as well as other feedbacks. Greenhouse gases are not alone in the process. In the case of forcings like CO2 there are feedbacks which also attend which take time.

I always thought that it took wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more energy to heat something dense, like water compared to Earth atmosphere

Are you telling us that the, oh wait, you never gave us a positive, non-imaginary number for additional heat generated by the added CO2. Well, lets say that it's .01C (I'm being generous, I know). That "heat" forces itself into the deep ocean? Really?

Are you sure about this?

 

[miketx]

Maunder Minimum! Maunder Minimum! EEEEEEEEEEEEEkkkkkkkkkkkk! Maunder Minimum?

Oops, where did it go?

View attachment 626601

Just adjust the hydrogen/helium ratio. Problem solved.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I always thought that it took wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more energy to heat something dense, like water compared to Earth atmosphere

If the ocean were a static bowl of water this would be a simpler system. But it's not. The ocean transports heat in relatively complex ways related to ocean currents and density.

Are you telling us that the, oh wait, you never gave us a positive, non-imaginary number for additional heat generated by the added CO2. Well, lets say that it's .01C (I'm being generous, I know). That "heat" forces itself into the deep ocean? Really?

Again, the ocean transports heat in a relatively complex manner. While I did get to do an oceanographic research cruise I was never an oceanographer (just a chem tech). But the complexity of the ocean water column is much more than just a simple bowl of water.

Are you sure about this?

Yup. Seen it first hand.

On the research cruise that I was on we were using a trace gas that humans put into the atmosphere over much of the 20th century. It exchanges with water at the surface of the ocean and sort of "marks" that packet of water for the time it was at the surface. Then these packets of water follow currents which dip down into the larger ocean water column. We were tracing the NADW arch between Greenland and Canada:

See that bit up south of Greenland? We were tracking water to follow it as it dropped down to the lower reaches of the North Atlantic (near the ocean floor). At each station you drop something called a "Rosette" which contains an array of Niskin bottles which capture water at different depths as it is pulled back up through the water column. Get it on board and you chemically analyze the water. You can see the 3-D structure of the ocean's currents and distribution of water as it interacts with the surface and then dives down beneath the surface.

It's a pretty cool system but it's also pretty complex.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Did you? Seems kinda...convenient.

Not sure why.

I've done well without a degree.

There's room for all types in our economy and society. I personally think we need more trade schools because university is not for everyone.

They're badly overrated.

No they're not. But some folks have a GIANT chip on their shoulder about their inability to get a degree. I think that's wrong. College is NOT for everyone.

That's more heresy that will shock and offend you.

Nah, I understand. You are one of those folks who didn't care for college or you couldn't hack it but you were relentlessly told that the only way to make it in America is with a college degree. I think you were done a great disservice. And it's part of why I really dislike our current economy and society. We treat those who don't take the same path as others of us as if they were somehow "less than".

NOW, that being said, your lack of a degree is not a problem except when you try to have a say in a technical topic you have no expertise in.

Imagine if I came to YOUR work, whatever it is, without even a modicum of understanding of what you do, and tried to tell you that everyone in YOUR field is a liar and a socialist and then proceeded to mock all the things you do in your field.

I would hope you would hit back and hit back hard.

Does that make sense?

 

[daveman]

Not sure why.



There's room for all types in our economy and society. I personally think we need more trade schools because university is not for everyone.



No they're not. But some folks have a GIANT chip on their shoulder about their inability to get a degree. I think that's wrong. College is NOT for everyone.



Nah, I understand. You are one of those folks who didn't care for college or you couldn't hack it but you were relentlessly told that the only way to make it in America is with a college degree. I think you were done a great disservice. And it's part of why I really dislike our current economy and society. We treat those who don't take the same path as others of us as if they were somehow "less than".

So why are you doing it?

NOW, that being said, your lack of a degree is not a problem except when you try to have a say in a technical topic you have no expertise in.

Imagine if I came to YOUR work, whatever it is, without even a modicum of understanding of what you do, and tried to tell you that everyone in YOUR field is a liar and a socialist and then proceeded to mock all the things you do in your field.

I would hope you would hit back and hit back hard.

Hey, guess what? I have a say. You don't get to say I don't. That's more than a little cultish of you.

Meanwhile, I'm the guy you need to convince. If you can do that, you're doing a great job.

But "Just because I and the people who agree with me say so!!" is not the compelling argument you think it is.

Does that make sense?

 

[ding]

That's not how it works. Sorry. We are not yet at equilibrium with regards to greenhouse gas warming.

So you are saying there’s CO2 in the atmosphere that isn’t being excited by back radiation?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

So you are saying there’s CO2 in the atmosphere that isn’t being excited by back radiation?

Ummm, that's not really the point. CO2 is not at equilibrium with regards to the warming. As noted earlier there are a number of feedbacks and other parts of the system that take a very long time to redistribute the heat.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

So why are you doing it?

To be quite fair it was because you were being a dick.

Meanwhile, I'm the guy you need to convince.

No I don't. You don't matter.

But "Just because I and the people who agree with me say so!!" is not the compelling argument you think it is.

You know, I actually tried in this post to be nice and understanding with regards to your lack of education.

Apologies for failing to be as much of an asshole as you are.

 

[ding]

What’s the conversation factor to degrees C?

 

[ding]

Ummm, that's not really the point. CO2 is not at equilibrium with regards to the warming. As noted earlier there are a number of feedbacks and other parts of the system that take a very long time to redistribute the heat.

Feedbacks aren’t the GHG effect. That’s something entirely different.

The GHG effect is effectively instantaneous, is it not?

Feedbacks not so much, right?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Feedbacks aren’t the GHG effect. That’s something entirely different.

Wrong. Read the literature.

 

[Batcat]

Has it occurred to you that AGW theory predates the Green New Deal by several decades; that the Green New Deal was developed in response to AGW? Eh?

The anthropogenic global warming theory does predate AOC‘s Green New Deal but I was replying to a post that said …

Sunspot activity is growing. Will that mean that the sun is going to increase it's output and the Earth will get warmer?

My post was to point out that the theory the sun was the cause of global warming was proposed by scientists years ago. For example this article is dated 2007.

Sun's Shifts May Cause Global Warming

Physicist says carbon dioxide's no big deal.

www.discovermagazine.com

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Goodness, you Kultists get angry when confronted by heresy.

But, hey, you just keep trying to distract people with geology, when that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

LOL. Geology has nothing to do with this? LOL.

I mean, really, that's hilarious.

How do you think you know anything about the earth's climate PAST? Yeah, that's geology. Oceanography is part of the earth sciences and that's INTEGRAL to this topic.

Wow. The amount of stuff that you DON'T know is beyond amazing!

Seriously dude, you are a gem! Hilarious!

 

[ReinyDays]

Too bad we aren't a black body.

Close enough to make no difference ... solve Wein's Law and we get 10 µm ... measure the Earth's light curve and peak energy is at ... 10 µm ... the same can be applied up and down the EM spectrum ... just like a blackbody ... or more accurately we're modeling a greybody ... if you know SB, then you should have known this already ...

How much energy are you conducting down the water column? ... and at what rate? ... I don't think the math works out ... you have to deduct for convection and re-radiation ... the energy transferred by each of these three pathways is proportional to the forces driving the energy transfer ... gravity drives convection, EM drives radiation ... you're relying on water molecules banging into each other ...

 

[ReinyDays]

Water vapor is one.

How does the existence of water vapor cause more water to enter it's vapor state? ... do you know what feedback is? ... pluck and electric guitar in front of the speaker ... volume on 11 ... positive feedback ...

Water vapor doesn't feedback anything ...

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

How much energy are you conducting down the water column?

I have to keep stressing that the ocean has currents which also run up and down in the water column. It transfers heat not just through passive convection through standing water.

I thought I'd made that clear with the discussion of the NADW.

... and at what rate? ... I don't think the math works out .

The math works out. Because it includes details about how ocean circulation actually works.

.. you have to deduct for convection and re-radiation ... the energy transferred by each of these three pathways is proportional to the forces driving the energy transfer ... gravity drives convection, EM drives radiation ... you're relying on water molecules banging into each other ...

Not even close. You are talking straight convection in a standing body of water. That couldn't be FURTHER AWAY from what the ocean is like.