Merged Credit downgrade threads

[Neotrotsky]

Back in April

Geithner: No Risk U.S. Will Lose AAA Credit Rating (Video)

 

[California Girl]

I'll say this - it certainly doesn't help his re-election chances.

True. Black cloud, silver lining.

 

[Missourian]

As does the AA+ rating.

Likewise, if we let the Bush tax cuts expire, we would reduce our projected accumulated debt over the next decade by a third. S&P would like that. But that runs counter to the religion on one side of the political spectrum.

That's why this isn't about the rating.

Does that include the increased deficit that Obama care creates? You are aware the former head of the CBO stated that it was underestimated by a trillion dollars.

The CBO estimates that extension of the Bush tax cuts will add $3.5 trillion to the national debt. So if the CBO head says that the health plan will add $1 trillion in spending, the debt would still be $2.5 trillion less.

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

Here is the problem Toro.

If we let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, Congress will simply spend it expanding this government program or that pet project...we'll see that money wasted and we'll STILL see the debt expand 3.5 trillion dollars.

Cut the spending.

Balance the budget.

Put a plan on the table to cut entitlement spending.

Then we'll talk about raising taxes.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Does that include the increased deficit that Obama care creates? You are aware the former head of the CBO stated that it was underestimated by a trillion dollars.

The CBO estimates that extension of the Bush tax cuts will add $3.5 trillion to the national debt. So if the CBO head says that the health plan will add $1 trillion in spending, the debt would still be $2.5 trillion less.

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

Here is the problem Toro.

If we let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, Congress will simply spend it expanding this government program or that pet project...we'll see that money wasted and we'll STILL see the debt expand 3.5 trillion dollars.

Cut the spending.

Balance the budget.

Put a plan on the table to cut entitlement spending.

Then we'll talk about raising taxes.

I totally agree. It's the spending stupid. FACT: If you taxed eveybody who earns $250,000+ a year at 100%, you'd net just shy of $1,000,000,000,000 a year. It's a red herring this tax the rich shit.

 

[Peter Dow]

Condoleezza Rice - when only AAA will do.



"Condoleezza Rice for President in 2012. Join this group of supporters from everywhere on the world wide web."

Rice for President Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rice-for-president/

 

[Trajan]

As does the AA+ rating.

Likewise, if we let the Bush tax cuts expire, we would reduce our projected accumulated debt over the next decade by a third. S&P would like that. But that runs counter to the religion on one side of the political spectrum.

That's why this isn't about the rating.

Does that include the increased deficit that Obama care creates? You are aware the former head of the CBO stated that it was underestimated by a trillion dollars.

The CBO estimates that extension of the Bush tax cuts will add $3.5 trillion to the national debt. So if the CBO head says that the health plan will add $1 trillion in spending, the debt would still be $2.5 trillion less.

I am sorry but when I read that, what I see is;

we refuse to live within our means so we will continue to fund ( borrow) even if we don't have the money.

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

I agree with Missourian- cut and stabilize, then raise tax.

they are unworthy of trust, do we have to go back to march and april where in harry reid took to the senate floor to deplore de-funding for cowboy poetry?

That is where their heads are at, until that changes and they both put a plan in place to use the taxs for exactly what we need, deficit reduction, no sale.



oh and who threw Simpson - Bowles into the trash? he spent no little hot air all year while they were working on it, then when they revealed? gone.....

 

[Zoom-boing]

Why S&P cut US credit rating was cut from 'AAA' to 'AA+'



Here is a press release issued by S&P that explains the reasons behind its move:

We have lowered our long-term sovereign credit rating on the United States of America to 'AA+' from 'AAA' and affirmed the 'A-1+' short-term rating.



We have also removed both the short- and long-term ratings from CreditWatch negative.

The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's medium-term debt dynamics.

More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.

Since then, we have changed our view of the difficulties in bridging the gulf between the political parties over fiscal policy, which makes us pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the Administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government's debt dynamics any time soon.

The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. We could lower the long-term rating to 'AA' within the next two years if we see that less reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates, or new fiscal pressures during the period result in a higher general government debt trajectory than we currently assume in our base case.

What Congress passed was a joke and merely kicked the can. If the D.C. cronies (BOTH sides) don't get their shit together we will be downgraded again.

To avoid a downgrade, S&P said the United States needed to not only raise the debt ceiling, but also develop a "credible" plan to tackle the nation's long-term debt.

John Chambers, head of sovereign ratings for S&P, said the slowness at raising the debt ceiling and the political infighting led to its decision. In announcing the downgrade, S&P cited "political risks, rising debt burden; outlook negative."

World reacts to U.S. credit downgrade - CNN.com

Yes they did kick the can down the road.

The thing is the road they used to kick the can down was a road never traveled before.

You see the TEA Party USED a tactic that had NEVER been used before.

They held the Amreican people hostage to their demands.


The financial system now knows this rule of the past (dont mess with the debt ceiling vote) has now been breached.

Listen to the tea party people like Mitch McConnal, he thought it worked great and is looking for more hostages.


That is what SP talked about in their release.

In case you didn't see Avorysud's post:

"The Tea Party put up for a vote a balanced budget with a surplus in just 5 years that didn't touch MC/MC/SS/ . . ."

Has this 'messing with the debt ceiling' ever happened before? No. Know why? We've never been this far up the crick before.

We cannot continue to spend, spend, spend. Period. Something has to be done or we will implode. The Dems were unwilling to even discuss the TP proposal. Yet here you are, dumping all over the TP.

Both parties are responsible for the mess we're in and at this moment, I don't see either party making any difference in solving the problem. They're all patting themselves on the back . . for what? They needed to cut at least 4T to avoid a downgrade; they didn't. What does that tell you?

Can't you take off the partisan glasses . . . just once?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Does that include the increased deficit that Obama care creates? You are aware the former head of the CBO stated that it was underestimated by a trillion dollars.

The CBO estimates that extension of the Bush tax cuts will add $3.5 trillion to the national debt. So if the CBO head says that the health plan will add $1 trillion in spending, the debt would still be $2.5 trillion less.

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

Here is the problem Toro.

If we let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, Congress will simply spend it expanding this government program or that pet project...we'll see that money wasted and we'll STILL see the debt expand 3.5 trillion dollars.

Cut the spending.

Balance the budget.

Put a plan on the table to cut entitlement spending.

Then we'll talk about raising taxes.

You have to cut 40% across the board to balance the budget without raising taxes.

 

[Zoom-boing]

You are a hopeless partisan

If a guy is actively trying to burn down my house, I must actively try to stop him. The Big 0has failed to help while he has succeeded ion doing everything he has planned to do.

What has he done that has or will help the country recover from the debt that he is running up at the rate of 1.5 Billion dollars every day?

As far as I can tell, he has only contrived methods to accelerate the debt build up, stopped efforts to hold it down, promoted fiscally reckless policies and told all Americans that any kind of fiscal restraint is the work of the Devil.

You can't seriously be promoting this kind of abandonment of responsibility, can you?

Yes She Can!

 

[Avorysuds]

Ok. I'll admit, I'm not informed enough about the teaparty. I do support Ron Paul (don't hate) though.

But what I don't understand is, when people say that the Tea Party "Held a Gun to America's head" and got things done, does that mean the entire TP or just the Repteapartiers?


I'm just trying to understand the Tea Party more. A guy I work with was telling me what he things about the TP, and how they've been hijacked by Republicans (Bachmann..etc).


From what I understand is that the Ryan bill had cut the recommended 4 trillion, but Obama wanted more taxes and which caused the name calling to start. Then the Tea Party stood their ground on no taxes...

just looking for some clarification.
Thanks..

The Tea Party head would be Rand Paul or his dad Ron Paul, not Paul Ryan.

Here is a budget put up months ago by Rand Paul, no new taxes, no cuts to MC/MC/SS... The Senate wouldn't have any of it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0vDNmE_M7E]‪03/17/11: Sen. Rand Paul Introduces Five-Year Balanced Budget Plan‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]


Dems pushed this out as far as possible and so did the Neocon Republicans. It's all a game and if you try and pick a winner that proves you're a loser. While Rand put up a good budget it never passed and while I give him credit for trying that does not make him a winner.

The Republican Party have been taken over by *Neocons.* A Neocons is nothing more than a Progressive liberal like Obama, notice how much they agree on, big Government, no taxes and war… All Bush’s policies and all Obama’s polices. Where the 2 are different is the bullshit they try to sell their base to get elected but neither would repeal the others policies, in fact they both expanded upon them.

So, the TP is more of a "taking the party back" kind of movement.

 

[J.E.D]

Watch for S&P's justification, the right won't be happy.

They won't be happy, but they'll deny and spin until their dizzy.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/05/acd.01.html

JOHN CHAMBERS, HEAD OF SOVEREIGN RATINGS, STANDARD & POOR'S: Well, thanks for having me.

COOPER: Why did S&P downgrade the United States' credit rating today?

CHAMBERS: Well, I think there were two reasons.

The first reason is the one that you have outlined, being our view of the political settings in the United States have been altered. We have taken them down a notch, the rating down a notch. The political brinkmanship we saw over raising the debt ceiling was something that was really beyond our expectations, the U.S. government getting to the last day before they had cash management problems.

There are very few governments that separate the budget process from the debt authorization process. And we also think more broadly that this debate has shown that although we do have an agreement that will and we do believe will deliver at least $2.1 trillion of savings over the next decade, it is going to be difficult to get beyond that at least in the near term. And you do need to get beyond that to get to a point where the debt-to-GDP ratio is going to stabilize.

COOPER: So it's interesting. You're saying without a doubt, the recent debate, the recent roadblocks in Congress, the tenor, the timing, the tone of the debate had a major impact on this.

CHAMBERS: Yes.

I think that's what put things over the brink. In addition, we have a medium-term fiscal forecast that we see, you know, the debt-to- GDP ratio continuing to rise over the forecast horizon, and putting it in a position where it would no longer be compatible with many other AAA ratings.

COOPER: Already on Twitter, other places, Republicans and Democrats are pointing their fingers at each other, at President Obama, at Congress. Do you blame one side more than the other?

CHAMBERS: No, I think that there's plenty of blame to go around.

This is a problem that's been a long time in the making, well over this administration and the prior administration. It's a matter of the medium- and long-term budget position of the United States that needs to be brought under control, not the immediate fiscal position. It's one that centers on entitlements and it's entitlement reform or having matching revenues to pay for those entitlements that's at the crux of the matter.

COOPER: What could the United States have done to have avoided this?

CHAMBERS: Well, I think it could have done a few things. The first thing it could have done is to have raised the debt ceiling in a timely matter, so that much of this debate had been avoided to begin with, as it had done 60 or 70 times since 1960 without much debate.

So that's point number one. And point number two is it could have come up with a fiscal plan similar, for example, to the Bowles- Simpson commission, which was bipartisan. Although it did not have a supermajority vote, it did have a majority vote and came up with a number of sensible recommendations.

You could envision other recommendations, but that would have been a start.

COOPER: I want to bring in two folks who are a lot smarter than I am on these subjects, Ali Velshi and also David Walker, the former comptroller of the United States.

I know they would like to just ask you a couple of questions.

CHAMBERS: Sure.

COOPER: David, let's start with you.

DAVID WALKER, FORMER UNITED STATES COMPTROLLER GENERAL: John, thanks for coming on.

First, obviously, S&P said back in April that you were looking for something meaningful to happen and up to $4 trillion in deficit reduction over the next 10 years. That didn't happen. You know, what are you looking for with regard to this new super committee that is being established?

If they were to come up with $3 trillion in additional deficit reduction over the next 10 years that would get to the $4 trillion target that you were talking about back in April, might that do it as far as being able to regain AAA status?

CHAMBERS: Well, it's going to take a lot to get back to AAA, because once you lose your AAA, it doesn't usually bounce back in that way.

But I think a key debate will be coming up regarding the extension of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, because if you did let them lapse for the high-income earners, that could give you another $950 billion. I think the question there is, A., would that be on top of we have already achieved with the $2.1 trillion, or would that -- if it was agreeable, which is a big if, you could envision that being counted toward the $1.5 trillion that the congressional committee is looking to achieve.

Plenty of blame to go around, folks. Dems don't get all of the blame, but neither do Repubs. S&P clearly stated that both sides are to blame for the US's fiscal situation, and that because of the political debacle over the raising of the debt ceiling, they decided to downgrade the US. What they also clearly say is that they believe everything needs to be on the table, including revenue, particularly the Bush tax cuts.

 

[Trajan]

The CBO estimates that extension of the Bush tax cuts will add $3.5 trillion to the national debt. So if the CBO head says that the health plan will add $1 trillion in spending, the debt would still be $2.5 trillion less.

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

Here is the problem Toro.

If we let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, Congress will simply spend it expanding this government program or that pet project...we'll see that money wasted and we'll STILL see the debt expand 3.5 trillion dollars.

Cut the spending.

Balance the budget.

Put a plan on the table to cut entitlement spending.

Then we'll talk about raising taxes.

You have to cut 40% across the board to balance the budget without raising taxes.

horsehockey.....

 

[Avorysuds]

The CBO estimates that extension of the Bush tax cuts will add $3.5 trillion to the national debt. So if the CBO head says that the health plan will add $1 trillion in spending, the debt would still be $2.5 trillion less.

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

Here is the problem Toro.

If we let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, Congress will simply spend it expanding this government program or that pet project...we'll see that money wasted and we'll STILL see the debt expand 3.5 trillion dollars.

Cut the spending.

Balance the budget.

Put a plan on the table to cut entitlement spending.

Then we'll talk about raising taxes.

You have to cut 40% across the board to balance the budget without raising taxes.

Rand Paul did what was needed... months ago.

 

[NYcarbineer]

so say the delusional leftist ...



PapaObama has spent as much as Bush in three
years that took Bush eight

Not true at all.

Obama's deficit in 2009 would have been a TRILLION dollars even if he hadn't added any spending.

458 billion from Bush's 2008 deficit.

420 billion in lower revenues 2008 to 2009.

That's 880 billion. If you count automatic increases in payouts for UE and other spending related to the recession,

there's your trillion. Before Obama did ANYTHING in 2009.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

S&P, who approved toxic assets under BOOOOSH, officially goes Republicant (dumbazz corporte tool)...

Buffett says downgrade"makes no sense"...

OMAHA, Aug. 6 (UPI) -- Standard and Poor's downgrade of the United States' triple-A credit rating makes no sense, said billionaire Warren Buffett.

"I don't get it," Buffett told Fox Business late Friday night. "It doesn't make sense."

Buffett, chairman and chief executive officer of Berkshire Hathaway, a conglomerate holding company based in Omaha, said, "In Omaha, the U.S. is still triple A. In fact, if there were a quadruple-A rating, I'd give the U.S. that."

The downgrade should have little effect on the stock market Monday, Buffett said.

"If nothing else takes place, meaning, if all other variables hold and there isn't say, a new problem in Europe, it won't make any difference."

"Think about it," Buffett said. "The U.S., to my knowledge owes no money in currency other than the U.S. dollar, which it can print at will. Now if you're talking about inflation, that's a different question."

Asked if he believed the U.S. deserved the downgrade, Buffett said, "No … remember, this is the same group that downgraded Berkshire."



Read more: Buffett would rate U.S. 'quadruple-A' - UPI.com

 

[California Girl]

Condoleezza Rice - when only AAA will do.



"Condoleezza Rice for President in 2012. Join this group of supporters from everywhere on the world wide web."

Rice for President Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rice-for-president/

One of the most gifted Americans on the planet... Condi Rice. I would vote for her in a heartbeat. And, if we could tempt Colin Powell out as VP, we'd have my dream ticket.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Does that include the increased deficit that Obama care creates? You are aware the former head of the CBO stated that it was underestimated by a trillion dollars.

The CBO estimates that extension of the Bush tax cuts will add $3.5 trillion to the national debt. So if the CBO head says that the health plan will add $1 trillion in spending, the debt would still be $2.5 trillion less.

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

Here is the problem Toro.

If we let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, Congress will simply spend it expanding this government program or that pet project...we'll see that money wasted and we'll STILL see the debt expand 3.5 trillion dollars.

Cut the spending.

Balance the budget.

Put a plan on the table to cut entitlement spending.

Then we'll talk about raising taxes.

^^ This. Exactly what needs to be done. Period.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here is the problem Toro.

If we let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, Congress will simply spend it expanding this government program or that pet project...we'll see that money wasted and we'll STILL see the debt expand 3.5 trillion dollars.

Cut the spending.

Balance the budget.

Put a plan on the table to cut entitlement spending.

Then we'll talk about raising taxes.

You have to cut 40% across the board to balance the budget without raising taxes.

horsehockey.....

40% of the budget's spending is now being borrowed. How else would you balance that, other than cutting 40% across the board?

If my monthly bills were 1000 dollars, and I paid for 600 with income and borrowed 400 to cover the rest, thus borrowing 40%

how would I balance that?

By cutting my bills to 600 dollars. A 40% cut.

 

[presence06]

The Tea Party head would be Rand Paul or his dad Ron Paul, not Paul Ryan.

Here is a budget put up months ago by Rand Paul, no new taxes, no cuts to MC/MC/SS... The Senate wouldn't have any of it.


Dems pushed this out as far as possible and so did the Neocon Republicans. It's all a game and if you try and pick a winner that proves you're a loser. While Rand put up a good budget it never passed and while I give him credit for trying that does not make him a winner.

The Republican Party have been taken over by *Neocons.* A Neocons is nothing more than a Progressive liberal like Obama, notice how much they agree on, big Government, no taxes and war… All Bush’s policies and all Obama’s polices. Where the 2 are different is the bullshit they try to sell their base to get elected but neither would repeal the others policies, in fact they both expanded upon them.

So, the TP is more of a "taking the party back" kind of movement.

Thank you for the response.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The CBO estimates that extension of the Bush tax cuts will add $3.5 trillion to the national debt. So if the CBO head says that the health plan will add $1 trillion in spending, the debt would still be $2.5 trillion less.

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

Here is the problem Toro.

If we let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, Congress will simply spend it expanding this government program or that pet project...we'll see that money wasted and we'll STILL see the debt expand 3.5 trillion dollars.

Cut the spending.

Balance the budget.

Put a plan on the table to cut entitlement spending.

Then we'll talk about raising taxes.

^^ This. Exactly what needs to be done. Period.

You want to cut the defense budget by 40%?