Merged Credit downgrade threads

[Sactowndog]

Ok. I'll admit, I'm not informed enough about the teaparty. I do support Ron Paul (don't hate) though.

But what I don't understand is, when people say that the Tea Party "Held a Gun to America's head" and got things done, does that mean the entire TP or just the Repteapartiers?


I'm just trying to understand the Tea Party more. A guy I work with was telling me what he things about the TP, and how they've been hijacked by Republicans (Bachmann..etc).


From what I understand is that the Ryan bill had cut the recommended 4 trillion, but Obama wanted more taxes and which caused the name calling to start. Then the Tea Party stood their ground on no taxes...

just looking for some clarification.
Thanks..

Basically the Ron Paul wing is Libertarian with a goal of significantly reducing the size of government. This would include significantly reducing the department of defense by ending overseas commitments, and eliiminating many entitlements: social security, Medicare and farm subsidies.

Ron's plan would be consistent with the current revenue level of 14-15% of GDP.

The Establishment GOP wants to maintain the department of defense, not touch social security and not increase revenue. It isn't going to come close to reducing the deficit.

They had a deal called the Gang of 6 plan which closed tax loopholes to raise revenue and reformed Medicare. Republican's blocked it because they wanted to protect the tax loopholes.

 

[Missourian]

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

I think Obama is right. Misunderstood but right. Medicare should be on the table but eliminating Obamacare should not.

When you compare/benchmark the where the US spends it money compared to other countries 2 area jump out. 1 is defense which everyone is aware of. The other is healthcare where the US spends 1.8 times the next closest country. If we are going to fix the country part of the fix has to be reforming our broken health care system.

Should it have been open to fixes to bring down costs? Absolutely but that is not what Republicans want to do. They want to go back to the existing broken system and that can't happen.

Obamacare is a monstrosity.

It's got to go.

Republicans do not oppose reform, Republicans oppose a new entitlement program.

Let's go back to the drawing board and keep the reforms but eliminate the entitlement spending.

 

[Missourian]

Ok. I'll admit, I'm not informed enough about the teaparty. I do support Ron Paul (don't hate) though.

But what I don't understand is, when people say that the Tea Party "Held a Gun to America's head" and got things done, does that mean the entire TP or just the Repteapartiers?


I'm just trying to understand the Tea Party more. A guy I work with was telling me what he things about the TP, and how they've been hijacked by Republicans (Bachmann..etc).


From what I understand is that the Ryan bill had cut the recommended 4 trillion, but Obama wanted more taxes and which caused the name calling to start. Then the Tea Party stood their ground on no taxes...

just looking for some clarification.
Thanks..

Basically the Ron Paul wing is Libertarian with a goal of significantly reducing the size of government. This would include significantly reducing the department of defense by ending overseas commitments, and eliiminating many entitlements: social security, Medicare and farm subsidies.

Ron's plan would be consistent with the current revenue level of 14-15% of GDP.

The Establishment GOP wants to maintain the department of defense, not touch social security and not increase revenue. It isn't going to come close to reducing the deficit.

They had a deal called the Gang of 6 plan which closed tax loopholes to raise revenue and reformed Medicare. Republican's blocked it because they wanted to protect the tax loopholes.

If the President and the Democrats want tax reform...put a tax reform proposal on the table.

 

[KissMy]

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

I think Obama is right. Misunderstood but right. Medicare should be on the table but eliminating Obamacare should not.

When you compare/benchmark the where the US spends it money compared to other countries 2 area jump out. 1 is defense which everyone is aware of. The other is healthcare where the US spends 1.8 times the next closest country. If we are going to fix the country part of the fix has to be reforming our broken health care system.

Should it have been open to fixes to bring down costs? Absolutely but that is not what Republicans want to do. They want to go back to the existing broken system and that can't happen.

Medicare is our #1 problem. We spend way to much on nearly dead people. Medicare's unfunded liability is 5 times larger than Social Security. If we would just let some of the vegetables die a year sooner it would reduce Social Security, Medicare & Prescription cost. These are the 3 largest budgetary items besides Military.

 

[jodylee]

They did it only to make a statement, and I agree that it was time to do it.
Washington once again chickened out and failed to address the problem. Only in Washington can you pass a bill called a "debt reduction bill" --- that increases debt.
Within 24 hours of the bill passage Washington had already borrowed $200 Billion...in less than a day.
Anyone with that kind of reckless policies does not deserve an Aaa rating.

they won't beable to be so reckless when the u.s loses its hegemoney.

 

[Sactowndog]

Obamacare is a monstrosity.

It's got to go.

Republicans do not oppose reform, Republicans oppose a new entitlement program.

Let's go back to the drawing board and keep the reforms but eliminate the entitlement spending.

Saying health care is a new entitlement is ridiculous. The moment you require hospitals to accept patients in their emergency rooms who can't pay you have started the entitlement program.

This is about starting a new entitlement. it is about deciding can we find a better way to pay for it than the current system which is by far the most expensive in the world.

 

[Toro]

I'll say this - it certainly doesn't help his re-election chances.

No doubt

I'm beginning to look beyond Obama. President Romney? President Perry?

 

[Sactowndog]

Basically the Ron Paul wing is Libertarian with a goal of significantly reducing the size of government. This would include significantly reducing the department of defense by ending overseas commitments, and eliiminating many entitlements: social security, Medicare and farm subsidies.

Ron's plan would be consistent with the current revenue level of 14-15% of GDP.

The Establishment GOP wants to maintain the department of defense, not touch social security and not increase revenue. It isn't going to come close to reducing the deficit.

They had a deal called the Gang of 6 plan which closed tax loopholes to raise revenue and reformed Medicare. Republican's blocked it because they wanted to protect the tax loopholes.

The Gang of six plan was a bi-partisan plan that was a start and was on the table with the support of the President and many Senators. The House Republicans blocked it.


If the President and the Democrats want tax reform...put a tax reform proposal on the table.[/QUOTE]

 

[Missourian]

Obamacare is a monstrosity.

It's got to go.

Republicans do not oppose reform, Republicans oppose a new entitlement program.

Let's go back to the drawing board and keep the reforms but eliminate the entitlement spending.

Saying health care is a new entitlement is ridiculous. The moment you require hospitals to accept patients in their emergency rooms who can't pay you have started the entitlement program.

This is about starting a new entitlement. it is about deciding can we find a better way to pay for it than the current system which is by far the most expensive in the world.

Obamacare is a new government entitlement program. Do you dispute this?

 

[Sactowndog]

I'll say this - it certainly doesn't help his re-election chances.

No doubt

I'm beginning to look beyond Obama. President Romney? President Perry?

You think. I don't trust the right wing with a Republican President. Divided government in the only way to go with both parties dominated by extremes.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

This miserable Obama Malaise is now officially worse than Jimmy Carter's awful Malaise of the 70's. This historic Downgrade seals his fate.

 

[Sactowndog]

Obamacare is a new government entitlement program. Do you dispute this?

Govenrnment entitlement... yes ....... but general entitlement no.

The question is not whether we are going to provide those who can't afford it health care.

The question is how we provide it and how we pay for it. Pretending that it isn't already an entitlement is putting your head in the sand and it is a big reason why we spend 1.8 times the next closest country.

In the current system we deny healthcare until it becomes acute and expensive. No HMO would run a business this way. It is stupid. We provide too much care in the final days when the outlook is clear.

We also pay for it by loading the cost of the uninsured on the insured making health insurance increasingly expensive. The payment model is a mess and it hurts the country competitively.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Conservatism will set you free. Conservatism is the only thing that can save this nation now. I know the Socialists/Progressives hate to hear that,but it is the reality.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

They did it only to make a statement, and I agree that it was time to do it.
Washington once again chickened out and failed to address the problem. Only in Washington can you pass a bill called a "debt reduction bill" --- that increases debt.
Within 24 hours of the bill passage Washington had already borrowed $200 Billion...in less than a day.
Anyone with that kind of reckless policies does not deserve an Aaa rating.

they won't beable to be so reckless when the u.s loses its hegemoney.

Oh we are quite far from that.
Where would you trust your money...China? Japan? E.U.? - yeah.
One can only hope that both the government AND ESPECIALLY the American people realize that we cannot solve this crises WITHOUT pain.
Leaving entitlements off the table was an egregious error that is irresponsible and hazardous.

 

[Missourian]

Obamacare is a new government entitlement program. Do you dispute this?

Govenrnment entitlement... yes ....... but general entitlement no.

The question is not whether we are going to provide those who can't afford it health care.

We already have a program like that....it's called Medicaid.

Medicaid

• Who is Eligible: Medicaid covers low-income and financially needy people, including those over 65 who are also on Medicare.
• Who Administers the Program: Medicaid is administered by the 50 states; rules differ in each state. Medicaid information is available at your local county social services, welfare, or department of human services office.
• Coverage Provided:
  • Medicaid provides comprehensive inpatient and outpatient health care coverage, including many services and costs Medicare does not cover, most notably, prescription drugs, diagnostic and preventive care, and eyeglasses. The amount of coverage, however, varies from state to state.
  • Medicaid can pay Medicare deductibles and 20% portion of charges not paid by Medicare. Medicaid can also pay the Medicare premium.
• Costs to Consumer: In some states, Medicaid charges consumers small amounts for certain services.

It's breaking us financially.
​

 

[Missourian]

There has to be a better way to reduce costs than another government entitlement program...we just can't afford it.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

"Conservatism will set you free. Conservatism is the only thing that can save this nation now. I know the Socialists/Progressives hate to hear that,but it is the reality."

Unfortunately, conservatism is owned lock stock and barrel by the greedy rich and corporations. The only hope is the Dems. tyvm

"We already have a program for that....it's called Medicaid."

Medicaid only covers those making up to $800/mo (in NY), or much less elsewhere. Under Obamacare, it will cover up to 14k, or 27k (family of 4). Obamacare is for POOR WORKERS, and will save TONS OF MONEY over ER care, with no preventive care. You are misled by bought off swine.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Rock on Conservatism! Because you're all this nation has left. True Conservatism is the only logical way forward for this nation.

 

[Sactowndog]

I'll say this - it certainly doesn't help his re-election chances.

No doubt

I'm beginning to look beyond Obama. President Romney? President Perry?

Here is one other thought. Revenue is at 14.9% and not only will the Bush Tax Cuts be extended but Romney wants to enhance them by eliminating captial gains tax.

Given that so much capital investment goes overseas these days that approach is sure to increase the deficit meaning we never get out of this hole. Does that really make sense?

 

[Sactowndog]

There has to be a better way to reduce costs than another government entitlement program...we just can't afford it.

What we can't afford is to spend 1.8 times any other country on health care especially when we are spending something like 2X on defense.