Merry Rama-dung

[Roudy]

Neh, Muslims have been killling each other and non Muslims since the beginnings of Islam when Mohammad raided Caravan's during Ramadan. In fact, if anything, the violence INCREASES during Ramadan, as Muslims reflect of the teachings of Islam and what they are supposed to do as devout Muslims.

I am sure you don't believe this yourself, but if you are going to present it as a theory - why not try to present some evidence?

In what conflicts and in what years has violence increased during Ramadan?

If I can present, say, a dozen cases of violence decreasing during Ramadan - what would that suggest about your theory?

The so called "extremists" increase their violence. No if's ands or buts about it. So does Sunni vs Shi'ite violence, church bombings, you name it. US forces experienced it firsthand in Iraq and Afganistan as well. Maybe you should tell that to the US govt. apparently that's the reason they gave for the embassy closings. Wow. Do you have a learning disability or what?

Embassies close as U.S. issues global travel alert due to threat - CNN.com
One of the sources said such preparations appeared to have increased in recent days with the approaching end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Sunday is Laylet al-Qadr, or the Night of Power, one of the holiest moments on the Muslim calendar.
Said one U.S. official: "It all leads us to believe something could happen in the near future."

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

The so called "extremists" increase their violence. No if's ands or buts about it. So does Sunni vs Shi'ite violence, church bombings, you name it.

Then present a case.

As mentioned earlier, it is easy to think of a dozen examples of violence decreasing during Ramadan, such as the fighting south of Timbuktu this year, which would seem to suggest your 'theory' has no basis in reality.

 

[Roudy]

AllAfrica.com Jul 29 04:18am
[Sabahi]Mogadishu -In a series of recent Twitter messages, al-Shabaab boasted about how its fighters carried out over 100 attacks during the first half of Ramadan, and vowed to increase the violence in coming weeks.

Bombs strike favoured Ramadan hangouts in Iraq
Fox News Jul 21 12:10am
Young Iraqis often spend evenings in cafes after fasting during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, but a string of bombings against the popular hangouts means doing so now carries deadly risk.

Pattaya Mail
Pattaya Mail Jul 08 09:38pm
NARATHIWAT, 5 July 2013 The Army commander-in-chief has reiterated that troops will remain in the Deep South if violence continues unabated, and has ordered an increase in security measures for the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan.

Iraq hit by wave of coordinated bombing attacks
Daily Telegraph Jul 29 07:56am
At least 60 people have been killed and over 200 wounded in Iraq after a coordinated wave of 17 car bombings targeting the country's Shi'ite Muslim communities.

Middle East Online Jul 08 02:17am
For many years, I have heard and read about the concern among some that -- with the coming of the holy month of Ramadan -- attacks by Muslim militants may increase. This is because, as is popularly said by many a Muslim, militant or otherwise, that Ramadan is a "month of Jihad."

Taliban kill eight Afghanistan workers near US base
Gulf News Jul 17 11:13pm
Victims shot in head one by one in deadliest attack in country since start of Ramadan

 

[Saigon]

The fact that fighting continues in places like Syria and Somalia during Ramadan does not suggest that violence increases. Obviously.

Both countries are in a state of war - would you have expected all the fighters in Syria to head home for the holidays? Fighting in Viet Nam, WWII etc also continued over Xmas,did it not?

Meanwhile, this year alone we have seen a relative drop in violence in South Sudan, in Mali and in Northern Nigeria, haven't we?


Again - PLEASE use respectable news sources. Not blogs. Not opinion pieces. Not grafitti. Not diary entries.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

The so called "extremists" increase their violence. No if's ands or buts about it. So does Sunni vs Shi'ite violence, church bombings, you name it.

Then present a case.

As mentioned earlier, it is easy to think of a dozen examples of violence decreasing during Ramadan, such as the fighting south of Timbuktu this year, which would seem to suggest your 'theory' has no basis in reality.

As usual, Saigooon has no freaking idea what he's talking about. He just blabbers something stupid and ignorant and then gets stuck with his foot in his mouth:

U.S.: More violence during Ramadan - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq | NBC News
U.S. general: More violence during Ramadan

Military expects increased attacks in Iraq during Muslim holy month
BAGHDAD, Iraq — Top U.S. generals warned Wednesday that violence will increase in Baghdad during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan and said al-Qaida in Iraq already has intensified its assaults against American troops.

The warnings came as violence killed some 65 people and wounded more than 100 in two days. At least 23 people died in bombings and shootings around the country Wednesday, and 10 bodies were found. The day’s deadliest attack took place in Samarra, where a suicide car bombing outside a Sunni tribal leader’s house killed 10 and wounded 38.

Ramadan Offensive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ramadan Offensive was a series of insurgent attacks against Coalition and Iraqi military targets from the end of October and during much of November 2003.

The attacks are called the Ramadan Offensive because they were conducted during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. The number of insurgent attacks increased during this period.

Taliban Attacks Rise During Ramadan: Sediqi - Tolo News



tolonews.com/en/.../7187-taliban-attacks-rise-during-ramadan-sediqi

Aug 11, 2012 - The Taliban have increased their attacks during Ramadan and are ... of Islam because they attacked mosques and Muslims," Sediqi said.

Middle East Online::The Jihad That Ramadan Brings
.:Middle East Online::The Jihad That Ramadan Brings:.

Jul 8, 2013 - Ramadan is the month Muslims fast in daylight hours to commemorate ... Indeed, there very well may be an increase in militant attacks during ...

Shias targeted in deadly Iraq attacks during "Holy Month" of Ramadan
thenewstalkers.com/forum/topics/...attacks-during.../showLastReply*

Jul 15, 2013 - Muslims. ? Attacks on Shia worshippers has increased during Ramadan. Violence typically increases during Muslim holy days


Christians Praying for Muslims as Ramadan Starts - Christian Blog ...

allchristiannews.com/christians-praying-for-muslims-as-ramadan-starts/*
Jul 10, 2013 - During the month of Ramadan, followers of Islam are supposed to ... been encouraged to increase their attacks on non-Muslims because of the ...

 

[Roudy]

The fact that fighting continues in places like Syria and Somalia during Ramadan does not suggest that violence increases. Obviously.

Both countries are in a state of war - would you have expected all the fighters in Syria to head home for the holidays? Fighting in Viet Nam, WWII etc also continued over Xmas,did it not?

Meanwhile, this year alone we have seen a relative drop in violence in South Sudan, in Mali and in Northern Nigeria, haven't we?


Again - PLEASE use respectable news sources. Not blogs. Not opinion pieces. Not grafitti. Not diary entries.

CNN, Fox News, Gulf News, Daily Telegraph, are "blogs"? Did you bother reading what I posted?

Go get your head examined I seriously think you need a shrink.

 

[Saigon]

CNN, Fox News, Gulf News, Daily Telegraph, are "blogs"?

No, but your sources often are:

Christians Praying for Muslims as Ramadan Starts - Christian Blog ...

 

[Roudy]

CNN, Fox News, Gulf News, Daily Telegraph, are "blogs"?

No, but your sources often are:

Christians Praying for Muslims as Ramadan Starts - Christian Blog ...

Didn't anybody ever teach you to quit while you're ahead? I think I took you to school on this and then some. Next time don't try to act like you know what you're talking about and say something stupid like "Muslim violence doesn't increase during Ramadan"(!) while we have US govt officials saying THE EXACT OPPOSITE. Now vamous, ignoramus, before I humiliate you even more. There's more where that came from, you know. LOL

*******

U.S.: More violence during Ramadan - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq | NBC News
U.S. general: More violence during Ramadan

Military expects increased attacks in Iraq during Muslim holy month
BAGHDAD, Iraq — Top U.S. generals warned Wednesday that violence will increase in Baghdad during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan and said al-Qaida in Iraq already has intensified its assaults against American troops.

 

[Roudy]

WTF is going on here?! Record number of embassies get closed worldwide due to terror threats by Muslims. This just shows how truly peaceful Islam is that this is happening at the conclusion of what is supposed to be a peaceful month of "worship" for Muslims.

What is it about Islam that makes Muslims want to spill MORE blood at the conclusion of such a holy month?

Depends on where you are talking about. Theologically speaking though Muslims aren't even really suppose to kill other Muslims, and in the case of Ramadan they aren't supposed to kill / fight anyone (with rare special exceptions).

what we are seeing is a fairly new breed of Islamic radical to be honest. One that derived from personalities such as Sayyid Qutb around the 60's.

FYI this lust for blood increases every Ramadan, going back to the prophet's time when Mohammad raided and looted caravans and in many cases killed and even raped its travelers.

Muslims didn't fight during the holy months (all four of them) under Muhammad. Try as Muhammad might, he couldn't break the pre-Islamic notion of Arabic holy months of non-violence so he folded them into the religion and formalized them.

What are you talking about? Ramadan was a custom that existed in the region before Mohammad and Islam. Even criminals and tribes at war would declare ceasefire during this month. Mohammad was the one that bucked the trend by conducting raids and robberies on caravans. Read all about it:

Caravan raids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Caravan raids refer to a series of raids which Muhammad and his Companions participated in. The raids were generally offensive[1]

The Nakhla raid was the seventh caravan raid and the first successful raid against the Meccans. Abd-Allah ibn Jahsh was the commander.[20][22][23]
It took place in the month of Rajab, 2 A.H. (December 623) Muhammad despatched Abd-Allah ibn Jahsh to Nakhlah at the head of 12 emigrants with six camels.[14][16][20][24]
After his return from the first Badr encounter (Invasion of Safwan), Muhammad sent Abd-Allah ibn Jahsh in Rajab with 8 or 12 on a fact-finding operation.
Abd-Allah ibn Jahsh was a maternal cousin of Muhammad. He took along with him Abu-Hudhayfah ibn Utbah, Ukkash ibn Mihsan, Utba b. Ghazwan, Sa`d ibn Abi Waqqas, Amir ibn Rabia, Waqid ibn Abdullah and Khalid ibn al-Bukayr.
One of Abd-Allah ibn Jahsh’s men, Ukkash ibn Mihsan, was shaven in head to hide the real purpose of their journey and to give the Quraysh the impression of lesser Hajj (Umrah); for it was the month (Rajab) when hostilities were forbidden.
Nevertheless, after much deliberation, the group did not want this rich caravan to escape. So they decided to take a large booty.
While they (the Quraysh) were busy preparing food, the Muslims attacked. At last they agreed to engage with them in fighting. In the short battle that ensued, Waqid ibn Abdullah killed Amr ibn Hadrami, the leader of the Quraysh caravan, with an arrow. Nawfal ibn Abdullah escaped. The Muslims took Uthman ibn Abdullah and al-Hakam ibn Kaysan as prisoners. Abd-Allah ibn Jahsh returned to Medina with the booty and with the two captured Quraysh men. The followers planned to give one-fifth of the booty to Muhammad.

 

[Saigon]

This is not about other than Muslim destruction as far as the OP is concerned

Of course it is not about other religions - because the OP is openly racist and is pushing an agenda based on racial hatred.

Any sane person is going to judge any act of destruction for what it is - and not criticise some acts of destruction whilst deliberately ignoring others, as you do here.

My advice would be to condemn all acts of religious intolerance equally, and not apply different rules for different religions.

Let's try again - do you condemn the destruction of the mosque in India by Hindus? Do you condemn the violence meted out by Budhists against Muslims in Sri Lanka and Burma?

Or do you only condemn violence when committed by Muslims?

 

[Kondor3]

"...Or do you only condemn violence when committed by Muslims?"

Or is political violence committed by Muslims such a grotesquely disproportionately high percentage of total political violence being committed in the world in our times that it's difficult to remember that anybody else does it from time to time?

 

[Roudy]

This is not about other than Muslim destruction as far as the OP is concerned

Of course it is not about other religions - because the OP is openly racist and is pushing an agenda based on racial hatred.

Any sane person is going to judge any act of destruction for what it is - and not criticise some acts of destruction whilst deliberately ignoring others, as you do here.

My advice would be to condemn all acts of religious intolerance equally, and not apply different rules for different religions.

Let's try again - do you condemn the destruction of the mosque in India by Hindus? Do you condemn the violence meted out by Budhists against Muslims in Sri Lanka and Burma?

Or do you only condemn violence when committed by Muslims?

Do you rush to defend Muslims and Muslim aggression, intolerance, and violence at each and every turn? YES. Do you manage to stick you foot in your mouth while doing so, making outlandish claims such as "Muslim violence does NOT increase during Ramadan" while the evidence shows exactly the opposite, and we are the middle of 21 embassies closing across the Muslim world due to terror threats BECAUSE OF RAMADAN? Yes, always.

 

[Saigon]

Do you rush to defend Muslims and Muslim aggression, intolerance, and violence at each and every turn? YES. Do you manage to stick you foot in your mouth while doing so, making outlandish claims such as "Muslim violence does NOT increase during Ramadan" while the evidence shows exactly the opposite, and we are the middle of 21 embassies closing across the Muslim world due to terror threats BECAUSE OF RAMADAN? Yes, always.

No, I absolutely do not defend Muslim aggression, intolerance or violence - not on this thread, nor on any other thread.

What I do is to view all aggression, intolerance and violence equally - regardless of the race or religion of the perpetrator or victim.

I really don't think a child killed by a Hindu is in any way a lesser evil than a child killed by a Muslim.

And btw - I am sure everyone on this thread, yourself included, knows that violence does not generally increase during Ramadan. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[Saigon]

"...Or do you only condemn violence when committed by Muslims?"

Or is political violence committed by Muslims such a grotesquely disproportionately high percentage of total political violence being committed in the world in our times that it's difficult to remember that anybody else does it from time to time?

In American media, yes it is grotesquely disproportionate. In the real world, then no it is not particularly disproportionate.

As I have pointed out many times on this board, the single greatest loss of life since WWII was the Congolese Civil War in which 3.85 million people were killed in a conflict which achieved 15% of the news coverage of Darfur - in which around 3 million LESS lives were lost.

I do think there is too much violence in the Islamic world, and I do think Islam needs to clean its house, but there are also so many very peaceful Islamic societies that the problem is clearly more complex than racists would have us believe.

 

[Osomir]

Neh, Muslims have been killling each other and non Muslims since the beginnings of Islam when Mohammad raided Caravan's during Ramadan.

What source are you using for this statement? It is also worth noting that Ramadan wasn't always around as a holy month and was derived scripturally after the Battle of Badr, so raids that took place over that month prior to the Battle of Badr can't really be associated with the holy month since it wasn't established at that point.

In fact, if anything, the violence INCREASES during Ramadan, as Muslims reflect of the teachings of Islam and what they are supposed to do as devout Muslims.

As devout Muslims they aren't supposed to engage in fighting during the four holy months at all really. It comes straight from the Quran, so I'm not sure how you are really arguing against it from a theological and scriptural point of view.

 

[Roudy]

Do you rush to defend Muslims and Muslim aggression, intolerance, and violence at each and every turn? YES. Do you manage to stick you foot in your mouth while doing so, making outlandish claims such as "Muslim violence does NOT increase during Ramadan" while the evidence shows exactly the opposite, and we are the middle of 21 embassies closing across the Muslim world due to terror threats BECAUSE OF RAMADAN? Yes, always.

No, I absolutely do not defend Muslim aggression, intolerance or violence - not on this thread, nor on any other thread.

What I do is to view all aggression, intolerance and violence equally - regardless of the race or religion of the perpetrator or victim.

I really don't think a child killed by a Hindu is in any way a lesser evil than a child killed by a Muslim.

And btw - I am sure everyone on this thread, yourself included, knows that violence does not generally increase during Ramadan. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Do you enjoy getting spanked publicly? Have you ever fasted? I have. It makes you very easily irritable. Just as you do when you're hungry. Now you add many days of this and intense prayer and propaganda every day, and you have the makings of perfect storm. Also consider the mindset and educational level of the people we are talking about, in general.

That's why Muslim violence increases during Ramadan, in my opinion. The fact that it increases is indisputable and a fact, however.

 

[Osomir]

Neh, Muslims have been killling each other and non Muslims since the beginnings of Islam when Mohammad raided Caravan's during Ramadan. In fact, if anything, the violence INCREASES during Ramadan, as Muslims reflect of the teachings of Islam and what they are supposed to do as devout Muslims.

I am sure you don't believe this yourself, but if you are going to present it as a theory - why not try to present some evidence?

In what conflicts and in what years has violence increased during Ramadan?

If I can present, say, a dozen cases of violence decreasing during Ramadan - what would that suggest about your theory?

The so called "extremists" increase their violence. No if's ands or buts about it. So does Sunni vs Shi'ite violence, church bombings, you name it. US forces experienced it firsthand in Iraq and Afganistan as well. Maybe you should tell that to the US govt. apparently that's the reason they gave for the embassy closings. Wow. Do you have a learning disability or what?

Embassies close as U.S. issues global travel alert due to threat - CNN.com
One of the sources said such preparations appeared to have increased in recent days with the approaching end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Sunday is Laylet al-Qadr, or the Night of Power, one of the holiest moments on the Muslim calendar.
Said one U.S. official: "It all leads us to believe something could happen in the near future."

The problem here I think is that you are confusing theological religosity with political causal variables. Scripturally, they are violating Quranic teachings very directly with regards to such attacks on multiple levels (for one they aren't supposed to kill Muslims and for two they are supposed to abstain from violence during Ramadan among other months.) Another example of violations surrounding Islamic theology is the violence against Shias that we can often see around Ashura. Ashura takes place during another month in which scripturally speaking fighting is banned. Even Al Qaeda Central for all of their radicalism condemned Al Qaeda in Iraq for such attacks and threatened to kick them out of the organization (even Osama bin Laden wanted to distance himself from such events and called them unscriptural and anti-Islamic).

What we are seeing in these attacks isn't really religosity, even senior jihadists with religious backgrounds tend to disagree with such attacks; instead it is primarily political based violence, and / or (once again depending on the region) violence conducted by a new wave of Jihadis that traditional Jihadi leaders distainfully call Jihadis.com who tend to be young individuals who coordinate with each other online and generally aren't very well religiously learned.

 

[Saigon]

As devout Muslims they aren't supposed to engage in fighting during the four holy months at all really. It comes straight from the Quran, so I'm not sure how you are really arguing against it from a theological and scriptural point of view.

Exactly. And I'm sure most posters also remember events like these:

Ramadan on front-line: brief reprieve from fighting for Libya's rebels

The first day of Ramadan provided a rare reprieve for anti-Qaddafi fighters encamped near this city 160 kilometres east of the capital, Tripoli. And with the lull came conversations that for Muslims everywhere had a familiar ring.

Read more: Ramadan on front-line: brief reprieve from fighting for Libya's rebels - The National
Follow us: [MENTION=27326]The[/MENTION]NationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook

 

[Saigon]

Muslim leader seeks Ramadan lull in fighting.

Yesterday, the eighth day of the holy month of Ramadan, a woman Muslim leader called on Defense Secretary Gilberto Teodoro to order a pause in the Armed Forces operation against the Abu Sayyaf so that Muslims and their communities can have a respite from violence during the Islamic fasting season.

Muslim leader seeks Ramadan lull in fighting.(Main News) - Manila Bulletin | HighBeam Research

 

[Osomir]

Exactly, the same type of temporary ceasefire for Ramadan (among formal groups) has been seen in multiple conflicts such as the southern Thai conflict as well.